Wow! Here we have a supposedly respectable university deciding to purge a completely factual statement from an historical collection of the sayings and actions of one of the world's most followed prophets. Since when does a university provost have the right or authority to censor a document that is at least, in one form or another, a thousand years old? What is the reasoning of this individual? Is he protecting the poor addled minds of the young students or is he trying to protect a tiny portion of the student body from being held up to ridicule and opprobrium? This is blatant and unbridled censorship of historical knowledge.

Posted by: spinoneone at August 22, 2008 3:24 PM

Well we hope that the censoring of this Hadith promotes a review of all the Hadiths that preach this hatefull, anti-semitic, anti-western, anti-democratic kind of nonsense.

Posted by: MusalMan at August 22, 2008 3:30 PM

Islam: Hoisted on its own petard!

Let's go further and ban the Quran. It's an incendiary, anti-human piece of violent, religious bigotry.

Posted by: Ynkedoodl at August 22, 2008 3:40 PM

I'd be curious to know how much negative publicity this incident generated, particularly on campus. Of course, the offending passage is gone, but I wonder if the stench will linger.

Posted by: jewdog at August 22, 2008 5:44 PM

I can't see removing these passages, I wouldn't edit Mein Kampf or Hitler's speeches either.

Posted by: Jerry M at August 22, 2008 7:06 PM

I wish they hadn't done that. I depend on that hadith collection to show people the real Islam from an authoritative source. That was one of the best hadiths to show my Jewish friends

Posted by: PapaBear at August 22, 2008 7:28 PM

This is off topic; sort of off topic:

Michael Savage wrote: "In addition to the above there were factors related to my health and the safety of myself and my family that forced me to abruptly withdraw my case......"

Is Michael Savage done criticizing Islam? Have these thugs, these bullies got him exactly where they want him? Tonight he is talking about radio talk show host Bernie Ward, pornography, illegal immigrants, ect.

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Savage
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2008 4:49 PM
Subject: CAIR Litigation Update

Dear Savage Nation Legal Fund Contributor;

You have probably read by now that I have withdrawn my legal action against CAIR, both the copyright claim and the RICO claim. I did so very reluctantly, and just a day before my attorney was to have filed the amended RICO claim. A copy of our latest filing is below.

As you will see, we had invested another $25,000 of your precious donations just to amend the RICO claim pursuant to the court’s recent order with the intention of proceeding. However, looking ahead to the next stage of this long and arduous process, I saw the most liberal court in the nation, the 9th circuit court of appeals, standing in front of us like a gigantic fortress of intolerance. It would have cost us another $175,000, or more, just to file the appeal. And it would be an appeal that the court would likely reject, given its leanings, the changing political landscape in America, and the recent de facto disappearance of conservative voices within congress and the judiciary. We also realized that we would likely not have sufficient funds to litigate this matter all the way through, and CAIR appeared to have unlimited funds coming in from various sources. In addition to the above there were factors related to my health and the safety of myself and my family that forced me to abruptly withdraw my case.

You have entrusted me with your hard-earned funds and I must spend them wisely. We have spent approximately $250,000 thus far only to have a Clinton-appointed judge find in favor of CAIR, which is still an unindicted co-conspirator in a federal anti-terrorism case! We can only hope that justice will eventually prevail and that the truth will come out. Until then I intend to use whatever funds remain and whatever funds you may choose to contribute to defend those attacked on First Amendment grounds, be they those in the military who may be the victim of a witch hunt or others who require our assistance.

Rest assured that we have withdrawn from the battle only to ensure that we continue the war for free speech.

I want to thank you again personally for your support.

Michael savage

Posted by: Wild Jew at August 22, 2008 7:55 PM

The statement taken off is not good enough, but an explanation of why it was there in the first place as well as the rest of all islamic literature, koran, hadiths,suras need to be exposed for all to read and be deplored at how any so called religion could be based on this bogus holy scripture.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at August 22, 2008 8:00 PM

PapaBear

The Hamas Charter, which can be found in its entirety online in English translation, also cites that Hadith

Here it is, in Article Seven, Hamas' ipsissima verba (Raymond Ibrahim or Mr Spencer could probably give us the Arabic and a transliteration):

"The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:

"'The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.' (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem)."

The citation of 'Al-Bukhari and Moslem' ['Moslem' = .the Sahih Muslim hadith collection - see Mr Spencer's "The Truth About Muhammad" for a discussion of the Hadith and those considered most authoritative] is right there in the text.

Today, of course, PapaBear, all you have to do is get yourself a copy of Andrew Bostom's "The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism". Part One is the overview and summary - Bostom's diagnosis of the disease, so to speak. Photocopy that - all 200 pages of it - and keep it in the car or in your briefcase.

Bostom cites all the Jew-hating loci classici from the Muslim texts and their authoritative interpreters, ancient and modern.

The depth and breadth of Muslim hatred of Jews is scarey beyond belief.

Every synagogue, every Hillel house, every Yeshiva, every Jewish/ Hebrew school, every Jewish household - and every Christian church and school and seminary and religious house - should have a copy of Andrew Bostom, "The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism" in their library.

Every rabbi, and every Christian priest and pastor, ought to read it, slowly and attentively - and take it seriously.

Every non-Muslim Knesset member should be got to read it. Every western journalist and diplomat and church leader should be required to read it before they're allowed into Israel!

Bostom has given us the Rosetta Stone, not only to Arab (Muslim)-Israel relations, but also to the behaviour of the rest of the Islamosphere toward Israel and toward Jews everywhere.

Australia has two Jewish Federal MPs and a third (Gentile, Catholic) MP who has a Jewish wife and whose sons are being raised as Jews. I sent all three men copies of a devastating historical essay by Bostom on 'Genocidal Shiite Jew-Hatred", but Australian Jewish jihadwatchers should, I am convinced, also present all three with copies of Bostom's book. (I have made arrangements for our Prime Minister to be presented with a copy by certain of his constituents).

Jewish congresspersons or senators in the USA, and Jewish parliamentarians in the UK and in Canada should receive copies of it, ASAP.

French jihadwatchers - do you think you could organise a way for Bostom's book to be personally presented, to Mr Sarkozy, and perhaps to that other Frenchman we have heard about, Philippe de Villiers, by members of the French Jewish community?

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at August 22, 2008 8:04 PM

They should leave it up there, the PC admin should shut up or demand the MSA state their position on that and other hadiths. I disagree with the collectivist remark. If anything, there is a far greater divide in wealth and privilege in the Muslim world than the West.

Posted by: MorrisMinor at August 22, 2008 10:17 PM

There is no shortage of disgusting ahadith (nor of similarly evocative koran verses). Perhaps Provost Nikias might be contacted about another, and another, and another...? USC should also require a note on the MSA website which explains that the collection is incomplete because various verses have been removed as they are inconsistent with USC "Principles of Community".

One of my lowlights has always been the obvious racism of Bukhari vol. 1 book 11 number 664 (and similar in #662, and similar in vol. 9 book 89, #256:

Volume 1, Book 11, Number 664:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

The Prophet said to Abu-Dhar, "Listen and obey (your chief) even if he is an Ethiopian with a head like a raisin."

Posted by: del at August 22, 2008 10:32 PM

PMK,

I know exactly what you mean. But America is a Christian democracy and it's a government for the people by the people. I bet if we can petition enough (to all peace-loving American) then the fat cats over at Washington won't have a choice but to listen to us.

It is indeed very ironic. But if we just sit idly by and do nothing, then there will be a Muslim in every American state, in American city, in every neighbourhood! That's a thought I can't live with.

We're winning the war over there but we're losing it horribly over here with our "political correctness" and our unwillingness to do anything about the Muslim threat. How very ironic indeed.

Posted by: jiji8989 at August 22, 2008 10:52 PM

Jiji8989,

Sorry to burst your bubble, but America has never been a 'Christian Democracy'. America might have been founded by some men who claimed to be Christians, and based some of the initial laws of the land on the Bible, but the buck stops there.

If you are convinced that it is a government 'by the people and for the people' (I fixed your generalization there.....) maybe you should toss your hat into the presidential campaign and see how you do.....What's that? You don't have a couple hundred million to spare? Hmmmm. Do you have your US citizenship? Also looks like you don't know how to spell neighborhood in American English either.....

Just a 'heads up', there probably is a "Muslim in every American state" as you say. If that truly is a thought you "can't live with".......

If you are referring to Iraq as "over there", then yes, on the military side- US troops have done an amazing job in establishing and maintaining control.

As for the non-military aspect (where all the politico clowns mess it up)- how do you think allowing Iraq and Afghanistan to establish their constitutions based on Sharia is winning? Also this week, Iraq pursued deals with Russian oil companies for future ventures after the United States spent their blood and money to 'liberate' the country.

I have an idea for you. Instead of "sending a message to the Muslims that you are watching them" , why don't you talk to a few and try to get an idea of what makes them "dirty" as you say.....careful when you start wishing for the thought (ideology) police and concentration camps, you just might get what you desire.....

Posted by: Agent Maxwell Smart at August 23, 2008 3:30 AM

"who claimed to be Christians" --Agent above

In fact they were Christians. Without doubt America is founded on Christian principles, belief, and The Bible. "God" found in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and all other Founding Father documents is the God of The Bible.

"the thought (ideology) police" --Agent again

They're already here. They're called "Liberals."

"why don't you talk to a few (Muslims) and try to get an idea of what makes them "dirty" as you say" --Ditto

Sorry, we don't fall for Mohammedan propaganda and "al-taqiyya" anymore. We go directly to the primary sources - Koran, Ahadith, Sira. They tell us all we need to know about the war and death ideology called "Islam."

Posted by: darcy at August 23, 2008 9:46 AM

Darcy,

I don't believe I disputed the fact that America was founded on Biblical principles.

However if you read your Bible you will not find the God of the Bible promising life, liberty and/or the pursuit of happiness to any of his true followers.

I hate to tell you, but the thought police aren't just 'liberals'. The Patriot Act has done more to compromise the civil rights and liberties of average law abiding Americans than it has to 'disrupt' any terrorist attacks.

I'm glad to hear you're not falling for propaganda anymore.

Rhetorical question......are you going to vote for Obama and his Muslim Brotherhood/ HAMAS supporters or McCain who left Rev. Parsley in the dust after he came out and called Islam a religion of Satan and Rev. Hagee is the same coffin for his unbridled support of Israel.

What are you doing to solve the problem of Stealh Jihad?

The point to my post was to take note of the fact that "JIJI" is advocating the use of concentration camps to weed out "dirty people"--jiji's words not mine. Once you open that Pandora's box Darcy, it is going to be impossible to close.

Do you think the government is going to go after all Muslims???

Not when only a percentage are actively pursuing (physical) jihad......

Listen to the speech by the US State Department Spokesman last week and his deliberate overuse of the words "war against extremists". He wasn't specifying "Muslim" extremists- just "extremism" everywhere......If you want to take the next logical leap, anyone who holds to any set of ideals and refuses to compromise- like fundamentalist Muslims, fundamentalist Christians, or Hindus or Atheists, (you get the point), would all become targets for internment as "fundamentalists"........

Just something to think about......

Posted by: Agent Maxwell Smart at August 23, 2008 10:59 AM

Agent, your comment is way too rambling and unfocused for me to spend time replying. Also, you ask too many questions. Why don't you answer them? Such as this:

"What are you doing to solve the problem of Stealh Jihad?"

BTW, you reprimanded jiji8989 for misspelling "neighborhood," but apparently you can't spell "stealth."

Perhaps someone else will donate their time to your unfocused ramblings and annoying questions.

Also, try not to use ellipses so much, or at all, which is lazy. Instead, complete a sentence with a period.

I think "Agent" might be "An American" - you know, "just doing some thinking," lol.

Posted by: darcy at August 23, 2008 11:39 AM

As of this morning, the hadeeth in question is still there.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.177

Personally I think it’s a bad to hide the truth, let the chips fall where they may.

Posted by: Bar at August 23, 2008 12:12 PM

Said Nikias: "I have ordered that the passage be removed."

This is just stupid!

We don't want these or any Hadiths removed, only repudiated. They are linkable evidence that shows the hateful intentions of Muhammad. They are too useful and the MSA should be asked to reinsert these texts which are a ligitimate part of the collection.

Kikias is probably just taking the cowardly way out by just requiring removal, which only looks like he's doing something to fools. Pressure should be kept on the university administrators to insist that the MSA repudiate these (and maybe others) hadiths or lose all funding and be subjected to denunciation.

Then the process should be extended - other islamic groups should be asked publicallly to denounce such hadiths.

Posted by: FM at August 23, 2008 6:06 PM

"No, the texts and tenets of Islam are clear. What is unclear is why anyone, living in the West and knowing these texts, and knowing what they have meant over the past 1350 years, reflected in the behavior of Muslims toward the Infidels whose many and varied lands they conquered, would still insist on being called a Muslim."

What this is saying is what any rational perosn should say:

There is simply no excuse for any resonable non-psychopathic adult being a Muslim.

This is why I can trust no Muslim, although I think many are Muslims only in pretense - after all they do want to kill you if you leave Islam. That alone says a lot about this insanity.

Posted by: FM at August 23, 2008 6:18 PM

Although it pains me to say so, I would have to agree that the quote should not be removed from the MSA website. No mussulman could ever (legitimately) repudiate such a sahih hadith, certainly without opening themselves to charges of bidah or apostasy. As such, the removal from the website means that it remains an essential part of the beliefs of mussulmen, and yet becomes unavailable to us kaffir as demonstrative proof of what the Qur'an and the Ahadith contain. This is especially important when Robert Spencer and others are continually accused of making up hadith, misinterpreting hadith, relying on 'weak' hadith, or taking them "Out Of Context".

The more I think about it, the more stupid such a demand from Max Nikias that the hadith be removed seems to become. It would be like taking a copy of Mein Kampf from your local library, taking a black marker and blacking out all the objectionable passages in the belief that it would stop anyone in the neighbourhood from becoming a neo-Nazi. The reason for removing the hadith is wrong: it is not going to stop the believers from believing in that hadith, it is just going to stop non-mussulmen from knowing or being able to find out what the followers of Mahomet believe. Were Max serious about this, he would then also ban the other objectionable hadith: the misogynous, the racist, the admonishments to kill (such as Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260 from the same MSA webpage).

I'm reminded of two quotes from George Orwell:
"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.", and,
"He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future.".

The first quote relates to the responsibility of the University to not bury unpleasant truths. It also relates to our rights in a free society. There is not, nor should be, a "Right not to be offended" as some people believe. Certainly I'm offended by the hadith in focus, but it is what it is. Nothing I do will cause it to be undone:
"The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it"
- Omar Khayyam
All that we can do is deconstruct, criticise, dubunk, mock, deflate, challenge, disprove and discredit such hadith.

The second quote it relevant in that without the proof of what the Religion of Submission™ is all about about, then we have no way of refuting it, no way of criticising it, and no way of freeing mussulmen from their yokes as slaves to an odious religion. Then our society is broken up into two camps: those who don't have access to the full Qur'an and Ahadith (the Kuffar) and those that do (the Mussulmen). Traditionally, this has been the case, indeed only when I found out what the Koran and Ahadith contained did I change my views on comparative religion. Without knowing the whole truth, not just the fluffy-bunny friendly nice happy-happy version that 'moderates' and governments want us to believe that the Religion of Submission is, then we are unable to refute nor refuse it. The 'bad' parts of the Religion of Submission are not a recent invention, they were not created at the the establishment of Israel, they are not found in some discredited long-lost da'if jiddan hadith; they are an essential part of the mussulman's immutable beliefs. By controlling the past, the future is also being controlled.

Please take some time writing to the University requesting that the whole ahadith be left unchanged on the website, for it is an essential resource for us, the kuffar, in education and scholarly debate.

Posted by: Gharkad at August 23, 2008 10:43 PM

Most of comments posted dont care about the truth and are happy to continue with biased and ill informed opinions.
Talking about hadith is never simple and it is recongized by all sects of muslims that there are thousands of fabricated hadiths which were created by Bani Ummaya and Bani Abbas governments, who hijacked islam to serve their own evil ends. All six collections of authentic hadith like Muslim, Bukhari etc were written during Ummayad and Abbasi dynasties. Those who disagreed were killed and their families and clans suffered sam fate. Just read the history of Muhammads Family, if you wish to learn about about those who believed in human rights and what happened to them generation after generation. These two families ruled most of muslim lands for over five hundred years with an iron fist any one and every one who showed any degree of free thinking or tried to spread the true version of islam was killed or imprisioned and their opression and tyranny were justified by their spin doctors by creating hadith which showed Muhammed as nothing more then a warmonger. This justified to the masses the murdering ways of the rulers.
All those who believe that Muhammad only wanted to gain power by inventing islam, please read the social conditions of pre-islamic Arabia, especially treatment of the poor, women and slaves and what islam did to improve those conditions.
Visit the website below to check out arguements raging between muslims about false hadith, and how complex the problem is.
www.answering-ansar.org
If you want to read about true history of Muhammad then read Anita Rai's book Muhammad, available from amazon.
The slander that Muhammed Married a six year old or slept with a nine year old Girl has been refuted many times but hate mongers will never let the truth get in the way of a good story. Aisha was atleast 18 when he got married to her. More detailes are in Anita Rai's book or check out Lecture by Sayed Ammar Nakshawani titled the mother of believers on youtube.com. Its a long lecture over a hour long but he deals with this question about 30 minutes into the lecture. Muhammad first got married when he was 25 and for 28 years he had only one wife and he did not get married again untill after his first wife death. All his other marriages were a way of other tribes and families of forming alliances with him, which was how things were done back then.

About the terrorism problem, USA and their Saudi alleis have trained and funded al Qaeda and other terrorist in afghan "Jihad" agaist USSR and even now US allies are protecting Taliban in Pakistan Tribal area, and Arab petro dollors are still funding tens of thousands of religiouse schools where children are tought nothing but hate.
Muslims have sufferred much more then western countries at the hands of these killers, and the world will continue to suffer for many years because of the short sighted policies of successive Amercan governments.

Posted by: angent X at August 24, 2008 11:32 AM

Ladies and gentlemen

observe the flood of very typical taqiyya and kitman poured out (re. Mohammed and Aisha) by 'angent x', our latest Mohammedan spinmeister, above. Spin, spin, and more spin.

Unfortunately for him - or her - all the regulars here have heard all the arguments, before.

We are also very well aware of the age, at marriage, of a great many girls in Yemen, Afghanistan, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Iran, to mention just a few majority-Islamic countries, and the reasons why the few people in those countries who are trying to achieve reforms - to prevent girls from being wedded, AND BEDDED, at 8, 9, 10, 11 - generally encounter massive opposition from Muslim clerics.

And in any case, the topic under discussion is not about Aisha, but about a hadith that demonstrates, beyond all reasonable doubt, Muslim antisemitism - hatred of Jews, qua Jews. There is an awful lot of *that* in the Qur'an as well as in the Sira and the Hadith. And the evidence, mountains piled on mountains of it, from all the authoritative Muslim legal and theological writers, as well as from popular culture, and the witness of history, is that Muslims are taught to hate and despise and curse and harm Jews and that, repeatedly, in obedience to those explicit teachings, Muslims have indeed inflicted terrible harm upon Jews and Jewish communities.

Merely throwing the hadith under the bus, as 'angent x' has tried to do, will not remove that mountain of evidence from all parts of the Islamosphere throughout all periods of its history.

New non-Muslim readers here are advised to ignore 'angent x' and give your attention to the evidence presented in four books - Andrew Bostom, 'The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism', Bat Yeor, 'The Dhimmi: Jews and Christians Under Islam', Norman Stillman, 'The Jews of Arab Lands', and S Goitein, 'A Mediterranean Society'.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at August 24, 2008 10:35 PM

Taqiyya applies when one is faced with a real possibility of being killed and since you are not planning on killing any body there is no need for taqiyya.
What I wanted to say was that atleast try to be neutral and even handed in your comments so your readers can get both sides of the arguement and make their own minds about the issues. But you seem to want people to ingore every one else and just listen to you and you alone..... abit like Usama bin laden and his Al-Qaeda gang.
I am not saying that all the hadith are false, I was merely arguing that the sources you are relying on are heavily criticised by many through out the 1200+ years since they were written.
More importantly any message tends to get interpreted in many difftrent ways, many not in harmany with original intions. For exapmle Juses will have very little in common with the Crusaders who killed and raped through Christian and Muslim cities, in his name.
Unfortunatly anti jewish feelings exist every and the West and the USA are no exception. Israeli Palestian Problem is not helping as alot of people dont want to distinguish between Israeli government and the jewish people, even though there are many jewish people who disagree with Israeli policies. With regards to muslims doing harm to jews, please look closer to home. The final solution of Hitler was a European crime which highlighted centuries of hating and killing
of jews in Europe.

Posted by: angent X at August 25, 2008 11:56 AM

Agent x

All six collections of authentic hadith like Muslim, Bukhari etc were written during Ummayad and Abbasi dynasties.

Sahih Bukhari
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

I am not saying that all the hadith are false, I was merely arguing that the sources you are relying on are heavily criticised by many through out the 1200+ years since they were written.

By your own admission Sahih Bukhari is “authentic”, so are you changing your mind and saying its now “heavily criticized”?

Posted by: Bar at August 25, 2008 1:11 PM

I thought this was interesting, its like an Americanized version of Islam.

Is there hope for reform?

http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=159973

Posted by: Bar at August 25, 2008 3:14 PM