The show was broadcast last night on UK terrestial TV, I watched for a while but got fed up with the taqiyya, and switched it off. The whole thing was just an exercise in deflection. The clear purpose was to blame an external entity for all the "extreme beliefs" in Islam and thus fool the kuffar into thinking that all the killing of apostates, gays, unchaste women, etc. etc. demanded by Sharia are not part of mainstream Islam, but a perversion sponsored by foreigners.

Posted by: Tziona at September 2, 2008 8:12 AM

Two related links can be found at:

Channel 4: Undercover Mosque: The Return Documentary
http://britishjihad.com/blog1/2008/09/undercover_mosque_the_return.html

British Government Efforts against "Extremists" Ignores Jihad and Islamic Supremacism
http://anti-jihad.org/blog/2008/08/uk-extremism-and-jihad/

Posted by: jeffreyimm at September 2, 2008 8:20 AM

http://britishjihad.com/blog1/2008/09/undercover_mosque_the_return.html

Posted by: jeffreyimm at September 2, 2008 8:22 AM

" Moslems should immigrate to a moslem country".
Yes. Immigrate. Go.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at September 2, 2008 10:30 AM

Seriously, do the majority of Brits still really believe that Islam is not being taught in Mosques? I wonder about the numbers, what percentage of the population are still surprised by these videos?

Posted by: PraiaFlamego at September 2, 2008 10:57 AM

'An exercise in deflection'
from the post by Tziona, above.

A very neat encapsulation of a disappointing analysis from the makers of the excellent Dispatches series. After waiting in hopes of a more effective and thorough expose, this failed to show the real hidden menace of Islam.
Surely though there was much valuable work done here. In placing the blame for the misogyny and rancid hostility of Islam onto the KSA and Whahabbism, through the words of 'moderates', they invited viewers to ponder the matter further.
If Saudi Arabia is the source of Islam, claims to have the most pure form of Islamic law, is the home of all the most important holy sites and is the largest funder of Islam in the world; then how can their teachings be rejected as bad or flawed by some without further investigation?
Here we have two divergent versions of this faith, each propounded by camps with political agendas, in other words, with reasons to lie.

Simply, it must be obvious that only impartial evidence can settle whether Islam itself is or is not to blame for Muslim aggression. Much of the groundwork was there for a powerful exposure of Islam as the source of terrorism and supremacism. If only more had been made of the theological points that started to emerge at one point, such as the footnotes in the Saudi Quran, for instance, and the authority for abrogation of peaceful verses in favour of verses of sword and plunder. All could easily have been backed up by quoting from Ibn Ishaq and the ahadith. The picture would soon become clear.

Really the program makers could have gone one small step further and made a giant leap for mankind.

I hope they have the courage to come back with a third in this series. It could be the beginning of a decline for Islam.

If they, or someone, have the courage.

Posted by: StephenA55 at September 2, 2008 11:03 AM

So it's all the fault of the Saudis...

It's amazing how easy it is to mis-understand Islam and how many people are lining up to do it.

Like the guy who was extolling the Saudi Islamic virtue of amputations for Sharia violations. Was he mis-understanding something?
Allah was only joking when he wrote Quran 5:33.
He didn't expect that muslims would take that seriously, and actually amputate the limbs of those causing 'mischief in the land', especially since he did not identify just what he meant by mischief. So what mischief in the land is, is whatever the guy with the sword says it is.
When it comes to fighting those who hate and fight Allah, the guy with the sword is never wrong.

So who is it that hates and fights Allah?

I don't know, but I know where they live...dar al-harb. Muslims call them kuffars, usually with the word 'filthy' in front of it.

The women in the film were right, that muslimahs should not take jobs in the public arena or work next to men or any kuffars. And the bit about migrating only to muslim countries, was right on the money. I can support that idea. Am I mis-understanding something?

Posted by: duh_swami at September 2, 2008 11:04 AM

The bit that got me was the part near the end about the new Saudi translation of the Qur'an with footnotes. The "moderate" Islamic scholar they interview expresses his amazement that the footnotes of the book say that the Qur'an's more violent and intolerant verses abrogate the earlier-revealed, peaceful ones - as if the Saudis made this idea up for their own gain. He's a scholar and he's never heard of the doctrine of abrogation? Funny how that works...

Posted by: Ben at September 2, 2008 11:32 AM

It's amazing how easy it is to mis-understand Islam.

Well, actually Islamists have been working for centuries on end for that to happen. It does take a very significant and concerted effort to explain away the obvious totalitarian, racist mindset put down in da book and da sirat.

'Easy' is a result of purposeful and massive deceit.

Posted by: Henrik at September 2, 2008 11:38 AM

According to BBC4 and the various Muslim liars and misunderstanders featured on the show, Saudi Arabia, the epicenter of Islam, the epicenter of the Arab world, and the birthplace of Islam itself, has somehow badly misunderstood the religion which it has invented and which it has spent billions to perpetuate. This is designed to comfort the so-called "infidels" of the West, to suggest that, but for the "radical" Saudis, there'd be no problem with Islam. It is designed to suggest that the so-called "radicalism" which we see fanning out globally as Islam awakens after the influx of trillions of dollars into Muslim coffers because of oil, that the problems of Islamic terrorism and intolerance can be remediated. Exactly HOW. Exactly WHEN? Who is conducting this fight against "radicalism" among the Muslims? Those liars and misunderstanders featured in the show? It would be laughable if it weren't so catastrophically deadly to our interests.

The myth of moderate Islam is among the greatest lies and distortions ever perpetrated against the people of the non-Muslim world. BBC4 has done some work to expose the agenda of the Muslims who have flooded the West in the last several decades, but perpetuates the fundamental lie which permitted this onslaught to commence in the first place.

Posted by: jsla at September 2, 2008 1:18 PM

Also as a comforting bromide, the BBC4 quotes the British Government as saying:

"We have put in place robust legislation to combat incitement to religious hatred, violence, and terrorism."

But the BBC4 fails to reveal that this zealous politically correct legislation is used most often to squelch critics of Islam itself, rather than to confront the gathering tsunami of traitorous Muslims in their midst. The Muslims are absolutely clear in their Islamic mission of destruction for the kaffir UK.

It is they, and not the natives of Britain, who gain in arrogance and confidence as the Islamic Army swells with the arrival of every new Muslim birth or the arrival of every new Muslim foot soldier from abroad. The Muslims are waging war while Western leadership leads us over the abyss.

Posted by: jsla at September 2, 2008 1:40 PM

In case anyone watching those videos is inclined to believe the mosque official when he denies all knowledge that this was going on.....

.... funny how the sessions were packed with women who obviously knew where, and when, and the content, of these evil vicious lectures which have been going on for 8 hours every Saturday and Sunday.

Funny how they knew exactly what was going on, isn't it?

Posted by: Monty at September 2, 2008 2:50 PM

I quote the following from the first video between 7:00-7:10 - "Wahhabism is opposed to the diverse and tolerant traditions of classical Islam"

The error is in thinking that what Wahhabism teaches, is limited solely to Wahhabism, when the reality is that both Sunni and Shia (Sects that account for the vast majority of Muslims) are just as bad, but the difference is that the vast majority of Sunni/Shia are ignorant about their obligations to conduct Jihad and Islamization, whereas the vast majority of Wahhabis aren't ignorant about their obligations to conduct Jihad and Islamization. Not to mention that Wahhabis tend to be better funded and influential, due to Saudi investment.

Posted by: Rogster at September 2, 2008 3:20 PM

It seems they have missed the fact that most Muslims in Britain are Hanafi with the Deobandi branch being particularly adept at "misunderstanding" Islam's teaching on violence all by themselves.

Need we list all the violence perpetrated by non-Saudi based Muslims in the name of their religion?

To blame Hanbali Wahabism alone is to miss Shi'a Iran's love of murder & terorrism; the Nigerian Maliki Sunni's love of destrution and oppression of other religions; Shafi'i Indonesia and Malaysia oppression of non-Muslims and particularly the violent offensive against Catholic East Timor and so on...

As regular readers at this site will know, the problem is far bigger than just a Saudi "corruption" of sacred texts, it is the sacred texts themselves.

Posted by: Liam1304 at September 2, 2008 3:55 PM

What the hell is "Classical Islam" anyway?

Posted by: Monstermunch at September 2, 2008 3:56 PM

Robert

If you read this, I would appreciate your brief thoughts. The suggestion that Abrogation is just a fiendish Saudi plot to subvert "classical" Islam is something I've heard before in the British media, and which was repeated again in this programme. Just for the record, how widely within Islam is the doctrine of Abrogation accepted?

Posted by: Monstermunch at September 2, 2008 4:14 PM

"the vast majority of Sunni/Shia are ignorant about their obligations to conduct Jihad and Islamization"

Rogster, how do you know this? Of course you don't know this, you're just making an assumption, a guess, based on the fact that this "vast majority" aren't actually exploding and chop-chop-chopping. There are other ways to explain that fact, I'd say. Think about it.

Posted by: DenverRodeo at September 2, 2008 4:59 PM

Notice though, the utter silence in the media that greeted this program. Not a whisper, hardly a sound. Shush little dhimmis go back to sleep now.

They wonder how the Far Right rises, it's because people tip toe around reality until it bites them hard.

Posted by: Ian at September 2, 2008 5:37 PM

I just hope my government take the action on this.
Was it Walid Shoebat who said: "What part of kill don't you understand?"

Posted by: Ken CleanAirSystem at September 2, 2008 6:29 PM

Paging English, Scots and Welsh jihadwatchers in particular, who have mosques in your immediate neighbourhoods (I'm thinking across the road/ next block/ next street/ same suburb).

Those who are Christians might consider getting together each day for the next 30 days and doing a 'prayer walk' through the neighbourhood.

http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:yfvagb2-3F0J:www.churchplantingvillage.net/atf/cf/%257B087EF6B4-D6E5-4BBF-BED1-7983D360F394%257D/Prayer%2520Walking%2520Guide.doc+prayer+walk&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=au

http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:rbOqb6bHz_kJ:www.dawneurope.net/documents/prayer%2520walk%2520manual.pdf+prayer+walk&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at September 2, 2008 9:34 PM

A moderate Muslim might want to accept the notion that all religions should be treated equally. Unfortunately, they cannot because the Qur’an states that:

[list]It is He (Allah) who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, to show that it is above all other religions, however much the idolaters may hate this. Qur'an 9:38[/list]

And, if a Muslim rejects any part of the Qur’an then they open themselves to being condemned as non-believers.

Hence, when Islamic terrorists quote freely from the Qur’an, the only solution for "moderate" Muslims is silence (or denying there is a problem). They cannot reject any of the violence, intolerant or barbaric verses of the Qur’an, since doing so opens them to claims of heresy.

This is why, where Islam is concerned, Islamists speak with the authority of the Qur’an, whilst moderates are have nothing to say.

Nevertheless, even "moderate" Muslims will continue being pleasant whilst Islamizing your country.

Posted by: Stefcho at September 3, 2008 4:51 AM

[H]ow widely within Islam is the doctrine of Abrogation accepted?

It does not take a religious scholar to answer this one, if it was even a serious question. If there are Muslims who reject abrogation, which there aren't except when they're practicing taqiyya, they don't have a sect to call home. All sects of Islam recognize the fact that 9:29 abrogates every peaceful and even pseudo-moral (they are always to appear moral, but never actually behave morally) teaching regarding dealings with infidels. All Muslims recognize that they are to fight, kill, and slay us withoute mercy. They may not all engage in terrorism, but they all support it, both morally and financially.

All Muslims are terrorists. They donate 2.5% of their annual income or $1725 to terrorism. That money is not allowed to pass through infidel hands. The only way to get around donating it directly to terror networks or sleeper cells is to donate it to Muslim Brotherhood offshoots or the local mosque, in which case 10% of it goes to the spread of terrorist propaganda and 90% of it goes directly to terrorism. How do I know that there are no legitimate Islamic charities? Because (a) there simply never have been, and (b) Muslims, as a matter of principle, do not believe in charity. They believe in jizya and they believe that people get what they deserve, unless, of course, misfortune befalls them as individuals, in which case there is always someone to blame. 'Zakat' never meant charity. It means 'alms for jihad.'

Remember that next time you hear that it's wrong to associate Islam with terrorism. Remind whoever says it that all Muslims are terrorists, and when Muslims espouse that crazy-ass viewpoint, make sure to ask them to which Islamic charity they donated their zakat last year.

Posted by: jdamn at September 3, 2008 12:52 PM

Being in England, I watched this show. I was not surprised at all.

Earlier this year I had to visit London as my husband was in the hospital. I went by train each visit for a month. It was a nice ride.

Took a bus to the area where my husband was and had gotten my land marker right as I got off the bus...it was a Muslim market with loads of stalls-a mile long...muslims covered in all sorts of coloured burkas, even those Gawd awful black ones. One thing that fascinated me was the clothing of many young muslim women. They were covered but their clothes were skin tight on them. I wondered how they could think that was being modest. Seemed hypocritical really.

Went with me dad and joked about being at the London Zoo.

My dad had nightmares a few times. He wonders what has happened to his England. Dad saw them on the news but never had seen it in person.

Everyone needs to see these places...it's amazing to see parts of London look like a third world country.

Posted by: herself at September 3, 2008 1:54 PM

The last video and the saudis denying they are spreading their brand of wahabbism - extremism - is a downright lie.

But, that is ok in islam - deception.

So, when can you believe a saudi? When the gas coming out of the anal orifice is heard - that is the only truth that a saudi speaks. The other end only has waste products.

That is also how I view the logic of islam.

Posted by: R_not at September 3, 2008 5:08 PM

Just to clarify a bit of confusion. The programme was on CHANNEL 4 not BBC4. The BBC is the politically correct national broadcaster who have been shown to be totally biased but are still funded by the taxpayer through the licence fee (even though they ignore majority opinions and promote anti-Semitism). The BBC is the Islamists friend.

HERSELF wrote about the eye opener of coming to London. I live in London and it is exactly as she says. I live in Walthamstow, East London. We have a muslim mayor who takes his child out of school illegally to take him to Mecca. He was let off with a small fine even though he is supposed to set the example.

Walthamstow is also the home of the foiled plot to blow up planes between London and New York. We have a lot of mosques and we are home to the Sakina Trust whose stated aims are to "propergate[sic] Islam". We have a lovely cricket ground which was redesignated the "Asian Sports Ground". We have an "Asian" centre which hosted meetings by Tablighi Jamaat and Al-Mouhajiroun. Our local market is mainly muslim, helped by the fact that the person responsible for handing out plots is a muslim, I have spoken to a muslim who says that "of course the guy favours muslims for plots, he's muslim." Meanwhile the non-muslim stall holders are pushed out.

I have had a friend attacked in the street for being "kuffar" (although he is was on his own he still gave the TWO men a pasting), I myself have been told that "we are going to kill you all" by a couple of young muslims from the local "moderate" mosque as they walked by. Naturally the Police didn't want to know.

If you want to know how this came about you should read Melanie Phillips book Londonistan, it's a real eye opener and shows how and why Britain was (and is) the Western home of Al-Qaeda and Islamism.

Posted by: DaveMate at September 4, 2008 4:33 AM

DaveMate

thanks for your 'on the ground' report (and congratulations to your friend who defeated his two Mohammedan assailants).

Keep all of us here at jihadwatch posted on events in Walthamstow! BTW - I don't suppose you could let us know exactly how many mosques there are, and what they are called?

Are there any local churches still surviving? If you're not actually an out-and-out atheist, you could always try checking out the local churches till you find one you're comfortable with, then join it and - slowly and gently - attempt to educate, e.g. by pointing fellow pew-sitters to this website and in particular, Mr Spencer's Qur'an blog, or by buying books (Bostom's, Spencer's, Bat Yeor's, Fallaci's, also Sookhdeo's 'Power, Faith and Territory' and 'Islam in Britain', Mark Gabriel's "Islam and Terrorism') for the parish library and reviewing them in the parish magazine. Encourage your vicar, priest or parson to ring the church bells at any and every opportunity.

Even if you're not a Christian you could still find out whether one of the local churches has a team of bell-ringers and whether you can join them. Anything to boost the numbers and noise of the kafir presence!

Mark Durie's 'Revelation? Do Muslims and Christians Worship the Same God?' can be bought online from outlets in Australia, for a very cheap price, and distributed to your local priest/ vicar/ parson/ minister in order to stymy Muslim attempts at 'inter-faith' nonsense and lies. Even if you're a total atheist, do this.

If there's a rabbi in the neighbourhood, give him Durie's book as well, and tell him it got a rave review from a JEWISH scholar, Bat Yeor. It deals incisively not only with the difference between the Muslim 'Isa' and the Christian 'Jesus', but ALSO with the bottomless gulf between the character of the Muslims' 'allah' and the character of YHWH as portrayed in the Hebrew as well as in the Christian scriptures. Again, it should inoculate any intelligent rabbi against Muslim 'inter-faith' nonsense.

Google Tim Priest's Quadrant article, "The Rise of Middle Eastern Crime in Australia" (which should in fact be titled 'the rise of Muslim crime in Australia', or 'the beginnings of Jihad in Australia', but never mind, he's quite good nonetheless), print it off, and slip it, perhaps suitably annotated, to your local bobbie to read. Priest was a beat policeman, the old-fashioned kind, in Sydney, Australia. Any cop would enjoy reading his hair-raising firsthand account.

What other community groups are there? Scouts? Cricket Club? They might provide a point from which to start the reconquista.

You could try getting together with friends for instructive video evenings - 'Fitna', 'Submission', 'Islam: What the West Needs to Know'; or some of Mr Spencer's video presentations.

Do you have a dog? You could find other dog owners and form a 'dog-walking club' - the bigger the dogs the better! black ones best of all (Muslims think they are Satan) - and patrol the neighbourhood, keeping track of all activity surrounding the mosques. Print off Mr Fitzgerald's article 'Basic Jihad' from this very website, and slip it into every letterbox that you have reason to believe belongs to a kafir household.

If you *are* involved with a local church, raise the possibility of reviving the ancient English custom of 'beating the bounds' of the parish. If done by a large enough group, and properly organised, this custom could be used to build solidarity, raise spirits, and challenge Muslim psychological and territorial aggression.

All the Christians might consider banding together to do a 'Jesus March' as well as regular prayer walks round the neighbourhoods - preferably in large-ish groups for safety. (The latter could be combined with dog-walking).

Consider combining for a HUGE Christmas concert/ nativity play and forming a *large* ecumenical group to go carolling - LOUDLY and tunefully - round the neighbourhood on Christmas Eve: i.e. round all the churches and outside the pubs and non-Muslim homes and businesses. For all I know, that happens already? Does the Salvation Army band do a gig in your district? If they don't, why not invite them?

That's a most unpleasant story - about the Muslim takeover of the market. Classic Muslim tactics; infiltrate, get into a gatekeeper position, then favour Muslims over non-Muslims and 'stack the deck'. Is there any way this particular Muslim can be removed from their position? I can only suggest that kafir customers very pointedly boycott known Muslim stalls and patronise those run by non-Muslims (same deal for all local businesses); or that the disgruntled stall-holders consider setting up an alternative.

Good luck. I'll pray for you; and for the liberation of Walthamstow, East London.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at September 8, 2008 12:34 AM