So this is our ally? I see old Condi has already showered accolades on Bhutto's widower for his electoral victory. I just have one question: What's the use of fighting "terror" if it means we only endorse the vile system that the terrorists are trying to establish?

Posted by: jewdog at September 6, 2008 6:50 PM

Islam is as Islam does.
Millions of people who wish to escape Islam are threatened and murdered by virtually every Islamic government de facto and de jure for even thinking about it.
This violation of human rights is as evil as slavery--another Islamic institution.
http://www.bravenewsworld.blogspot.com

Posted by: Max Publius at September 6, 2008 7:05 PM

i'm waiting for NOW's reaction to this. i'm waiting for them to rage upon this. hello? NOW?

Posted by: theygottago at September 6, 2008 8:09 PM

...this sort of inhumanity is literally incredible. Truly medieval. Just f*cking wow!

Posted by: Richard at September 6, 2008 8:33 PM

What......? They didn't dismember her and send her body parts back to her parents. C.O.D.?

They must be slipping.......

Posted by: n.a. palm at September 6, 2008 8:54 PM

"Land of the Pure, i.e., land of Muslims"

Pure what? Evil?

Posted by: darcy at September 6, 2008 8:57 PM

"Then do something about it."

Raymond, that was good, direct and succinct.

Those five words should be the response when any Muslim anywhere in the world protests that these and similar actions are outside the bounds of Islam.

Until they do something about it, they are as guilty as the murderers. Will the men who killed a teenager coming out of a courtroom, and those who shot five women and buried them alive, be brought to justice?

Until they are, and until they are given more than a slap on the wrist (How about cutting off their hand and foot on opposite sides? That's Islamic, isn't it?) then don't register your disappointment. Your actions speak volumes. Your words are lost on the wind.

Posted by: PMK at September 6, 2008 8:59 PM

"The killers after burying these women returned to their tribe like conquerors without any action taken against them."

They are not conquerors, they are evil cowards. What a completely and utterly vile culture, and Islam is a vile 'religion'. To hell with them both.

Posted by: champ at September 6, 2008 9:41 PM

The Islamic Mafia. The Mohammedans and their thrust for blood is insatiable. The revolting and disgusting religion that is falsely praised is utter disgrace.

Posted by: savsiv at September 6, 2008 10:03 PM

There is something so alien and non-human in a society that does this, that allows this. Every time I read a story like this one I feel frozen for a time. How can this continue? At least this time, in the one case, 2 "elderly women" tried to rescue the girls. At least they weren't helping in the murder this time. Maybe it's the beginning of the end of these killings.

Posted by: charlie at September 6, 2008 10:46 PM

But don't you dare question their patri--oops, wrong cue card. *koff*...But remember, it has nothing to do with Islam.

Posted by: The Sanity Inspector at September 6, 2008 11:56 PM

girl forced into marriage with a 45-year-old man at the age of nine

i hope one day this pervert come to the usa and is prosecuted for his rapping a 9 year old

Posted by: ISLAMSNOTFORME at September 7, 2008 12:28 AM

Poor thing. What a miserable exitence. Raped from age 9 by a 40 something year old man, probably everyday. Probably beaten too, and not a damn thing you can do about it as under Islam a man can beat his wife when he deems 'necessary' and can rape a 9 year old child. Think about it. How sick.

Posted by: TS at September 7, 2008 1:57 AM

Other subject: Has anybody responded to this knightstemplar2 person? Is he collecting email addresses? Seems like he shows up on every thread lately.

Posted by: Jimmy Bones at September 7, 2008 3:02 AM

Here's my latest Pigman piece, which stories like the above continue to fuel:
Pigman: Enter the Rat Cave.

Posted by: Bosch Fawstin at September 7, 2008 3:19 AM

They make so much fuss over cartoons

They make no fuss over murder of daughters

Makes me wonder why the talk about a clash of civilisations and not the end of civilisation.

seems more like the end of civilisation to me.

Posted by: exposesithlords at September 7, 2008 4:09 AM

just another day in the life of a muslim!

Posted by: oppressiondetester at September 7, 2008 4:17 AM

Barbaric...and common

in Islam!

Posted by: Mo Foe at September 7, 2008 4:27 AM

"...marrying female children at age 9 is wholly based on the example of Islam's prophet"

This is actually incorrect. Mohammad married Aisha, age 6, and then began raping her when she was 9.

Posted by: Max Publius at September 7, 2008 6:37 AM

Jimmy Bones,

That was my impression as well. For what purpose? Considering he pastes the exact same post every time, I wonder about his motives. Why not post a link? He's not getting a response from me.

ABS

لن استسلم

Posted by: Drewbenstein at September 7, 2008 7:51 AM

What about this girl's mother? Muslim women don't seem to care all that much about their daughters. Not only did she give her nine-year-old daughter to an adult male, she later killed HER OWN DAUGHTER! There was no exercise of parental responsibility, no effort to preserve the life that she herself brought into the world. These two elderly women were a clear exception. Unfortunately, that's what they are - an exception. And they were murdered for it.

Posted by: PMK at September 7, 2008 11:25 AM

Jimmy Bones said

"Other subject: Has anybody responded to this knightstemplar2 person? Is he collecting email addresses? Seems like he shows up on every thread lately".

I sent an email to charles martel(poster on jihadwatch) and he responded by giving me the links to download two powerpoint files about the true character of Muhammed.The email address he gave me is knightemplar2@hotmail.com.You can definitely give him an email.The powerpoint presentations are great.

Posted by: anti islamocommunist at September 7, 2008 12:28 PM

Another poor attempt to vilify ALL Muslims for the atrocious acts of a few.

If turnabout is fair play, then surely we can recall that it was CHRISTIANS who murdered 6 million Jews in WWII, CHRISTIANS who murdered 4 million Native Americans, CHRISTIANS who dropped TWO atomic bombs in Japan, and CHRISTIANS who enslaved 20 million Africans for 400 years! The list goes on and on and on...

No reasonable, right thinking person condones horror. Nor do they stereotype 1.4 billion peaceful practicing Muslims because of a few thousand crazy ones. And yes, it IS crazy to force your daughter to marry at 9 or at all for that matter. And yes, it IS crazy to kill your child. What sane parent would do that!?! Regardless of their religion? (Caylee Anthony?)

I'm a Muslim, my family is Muslim AND we live in America. We were ALL born and raised here, six generations of proud Red, White and Blue Americans. We are AMERICANS! Not one member of my family or any of the Muslim families I've known have committed any crimes or forced any marriages. Our wives and daughters DON'T wear veils, we DON'T own guns, we DON'T wish death upon anyone! (sick) Be they Jews, Christians or otherwise.

We go to colleges and universities, we work in hospitals and accounting offices. We go to baseball games, eat cheeseburgers, rent movies and watch football. My sister is an elementary school teacher, my wife is in med school, my brother is a U.S. Marine, my parents have been married for almost 40 years and our friends are of all different races, religions and backgrounds.

We want the same things you do: To live peacefully, laugh, eat, watch our children grow up, and contribute something positive to the world. AS AMERICANS who are PROMISED the Right of Freedom of Religion by the United States Constitution!

STOP SPREADING HATRED AND PROPAGANDA!

Posted by: cipher_14 at September 7, 2008 12:41 PM

cipher14,

Are you the only one who feels this way? Why do we never hear from the so-called "moderate" muslims?

Stand up for your faith. Organize a group of muslims like yourselves. Get out there and protest, not to us, but to muslims who "misunderstand" the teachings of the pervert "prophet". Then maybe we'll believe you.

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at September 7, 2008 1:50 PM

Read the NY Times article today on our allie Pakistan. Dexter Filkins is one of the best journalist on the planet. The article is called'Right at the edge' I sent it to John McCain to see if we can have some straight talk on this matter.

Posted by: maunalio at September 7, 2008 2:10 PM

cipher14--

You've merely told us that you and your family are not devout Muslims, and that you don't really understand history, probably intentionally so. You're a sophist. You know damn well the Nazis weren't guided by Christianity (Hitler was an atheist who admired Islam). Secular and commercial interests, not Christian, were the primary motives for the events you cite. More often, Christians tried to stop said events, using scripture as a basis. They eventually succeeded. MLK used Christianity as the basis for civil rights, as did Ghandi and even YOU, by citing the US Constitution, which is best described as a secular document based on Christian principals. Why don't you rent the movie Amazing Grace to see how Christians ended slavery all over the world, except in Islamic countries?

Posted by: Max Publius at September 7, 2008 2:51 PM

cipher 14,
We have been waiting for people like you to speak up loudly and publicly.
You talk about how you love America.
What is your view of what is going on in Pakistan today? Do you approve of forced marriages? Do you think women seeking divorce should be murdered? Are these sanctioned by Islam?
What do you think about the people who demand footbaths in the airport and about those who broke their own company's equipment, all because they couldn't get an early breakfast?
Stop blaming us for what happened throughout history. Muslims have quite a bit to answer for there as well. We are looking at the world as it exists TODAY. You won't cleanse yourself by throwing your dirt on us.

from the article:

"As the two shocked elderly women tried to rescue the hapless girls, they too were gunned down and buried in the same manner. The killers after burying these women returned to their tribe like conquerors without any action taken against them."

Do you find this acceptable?

Posted by: PMK at September 7, 2008 3:43 PM

Cipher 14,
While turnabout is indeed fair, the facts and premises that you use must be correct. In your case, they are not and if you would please permit me, I would like to sort out this oft-foisted argument (e.g. Christianity is as evil as Islam).

Your basic question is this: “Doesn’t Christianity have a long history of war and killing too? Isn’t it is just like Islam?” The answer is yes and no. Yes, Christians have killed in the past. Yes, they have waged war against other people. Yes, their history is marred by events like the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition. But, no, it’s not just like Islam. In fact, it’s very different.

You point to examples where Christians have killed or waged war (Crusades and Spanish Inquisition) as well as infer the Old Testament stories of God’s people waging war against their enemies (as in the case of the Canaanites). None of these examples, however, parallel what occurs in Islam. Take, for example, the Old Testament wars. God typically used wars as an act of judgment upon a sinful and guilty nation, not as a method of expanding the Jewish nation. Indeed, God judged sin regardless of who committed it. While God used the Jews as an instrument of judgment against the guilty Canaanite nation, He was also willing to use Israel’s enemies as an agent of judgment against the guilty Jews. God was, and is, an equal opportunity judge. In Islam, however, Mohammed and the growing Islamic nation were always right and justified in their attack against a people group.

It’s also important to recognize there is no theology that makes the war and killing of the Old Testament normative for Christians in any era. The biblical text, in Old Testament examples, is descriptive, not prescriptive. It simply tells the history of the Jewish nation.

The Qur’an, on the other hand, not only describes the countless battles Mohammed engaged in, but prescribes a model of how to behave today. Abul A’la Mawdudi states, in his apologetic work Towards Understanding Islam, “…all the command and injunctions in the Qur’an can be acted upon at any place and in any age...” Muslim scholar and translator of the Qur’an, Muhammed Asad, says this regarding surah 2:191, a passage prescribing the Muslims of the seventh century to wage war: “…as is always the case with historical references in the Qur’an – the above injunction has a general import, and is valid for all times and circumstances.” There is a robust theology of war present in the Qur’an and normative for Muslims today.

Examples like the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition provide no parallel with Islam. These events have no theological basis in the Bible. Although the Church attempted to justify their actions using the Bible, their efforts were misguided. Whatever theology was erected has since been repudiated by the Church because it lacks biblical support. Islam still vigorously defends jihad using the Qur’an, the precedent set by Mohammed, and Mohammed’s own instructions. No prominent Middle Eastern Muslim scholar would ever repudiate jihadist theology – it’s central to Islam. When I’m asked, then, about the Crusades or the Inquisition, I affirm that Christians engaged in wrongdoing, but then quickly point out that their behavior was inconsistentwith biblical theology. When Muslims, however, have engaged in war and killing, their behavior has been consistent with Islamic theology.

Finally, if one wants to know how Christians are supposed to live, they can look to Jesus’ instruction and the model of the New Testament church. Just before leaving this earth, Jesus gave us what has become known as the “Great Commission”. It’s His final instructions for His followers. He said we are to make disciples of all nations, to baptize them, and to teach them what He commanded.

In fact, it’s interesting to note what the early church did. Look at the first 100 years of Islam after Mohammed and the first few hundred years of Christianity after Jesus. Islam spread primarily through military conquest, taking control of lands from Spain to the borders of China and India. Christianity spread, amid intense persecution, for nearly 300 years throughout parts of Europe, northern Africa, and the Middle East.

Finally, the most often overlooked issue you raise is captured in a question: Is oppression and bloodshed either a religious duty of Christianity or a logical application of the teachings of Christ? If not, then violence done in the name of Christ cannot be laid at His door.

Imagine yourself a builder who sent out crews with detailed, written instructions for their work. Instead of building, though, they destroyed. Would you be responsible? That would depend on one thing: the written instructions.

One can’t hold Christianity responsible when so-called Christians violate the written instructions. The fault is not with Christ, but with people who disobey Him.

Jesus was quite clear on this: "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments" (). His command to love extended even to one’s enemy ().

The Apostle John reflects the same view: "By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother" ().

Nothing in Christian teaching itself mandates forcible conversion to the faith or coerced adherence to Biblical doctrines. The teachings of Christ do not lead logically to wanton bloodshed.

Jesus Himself warned of interlopers, wolves in sheep’s clothing. His assessment of them is unmistakable: "I never knew you. Depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness" ().

The actual track record for genuine disciples of Jesus Christ those who follow the written instructions much different. Two Biblical teachings have made Christianity the greatest force for good in the history of the world.

First is the teaching that God reigns over a moral universe He created. He requires virtuous behavior from His subjects and will one day judge each person’s conduct with perfect justice.

Second, Christian morality is informed by the notion that human beings are made in the image of God and therefore have transcendent value. This has been the foundation for Christian ethics for 2,000 years.

In conclusion, I am not questioning your dedication to America but your ignorance (or unwillingness?) to know the basis of your argument. Love for Christ (Christianity) and a desire to obey Him has transformed the world in four areas: education, human rights, acts of mercy, and general moral transformation of culture. I can elaborate on them at length if you wish but I think that my point is made. Max Publis also listed several excellent examples as well.

Please give thought to these things before again raising these same objections.

Posted by: HunterPro at September 7, 2008 3:45 PM

Islam a fair religion?

SHOW US!!!!

Do something about these horrors. Lock this lecherous freak away FOREVER!!!!! then we'll talk.

Peace out.

Posted by: LucyintheSkywithCubicZircons at September 7, 2008 6:05 PM

This is the story of millions of Muslim children who have been subjected to this cruelty. Millions more Muslim girls will be forced to marry at the ages between 5 and 11 and be killed before they are 18 years old. Most Muslim women still defend this concept of rape and murder of Muslim children. If Muslim women do not want to be helped and they want to continue to defend the rape and killing of Muslim children then all power to them - they do not want us to interfere.

Posted by: American at September 8, 2008 10:35 AM

I think cipher 14 brings up very valid points. So when he says christians were responsible for killing 6 million jews in ww2, that misinformation isn't the point he was trying to get across. The POINT was actually blatant and obvious, people regardless of ethnic background or of faith basis, do horrible things. When the media portrays an extreme act commited by an institution or group it becomes socially expected and accepted to connect any one person with the same root beliefs or background as the people who executed these atrocities. So a good muslim is synonymous with a ruthless terrorist, at least in the eyes of a society stuck in a mindset that doesn't function above mediocrity.
However I don't believe anyone should be kept from reading stories such as this one. It's only spreading propaganda and hate if you cannot make up your own mind and realize that this story doesn't apply to all muslims...or if you read a story on a crazy Evangelicast leader somwhere and realize that shouldn't be applied to all christian believers.
My core belief is that hate is an ugly thing and you should be compassionate toward everyone. It's a concept that is so simple and pretty much idiot proof and it is sad that at 22 years of age I'm finding myself smarter than a lot of 30, 40, 43, 60 year olds out there who function on such close minded principles. That is one generalization that can apply to christians and muslims and jesuits and jews and republicans and communists and blacks and whites and everyone in the entire world who has ever heard or read something bad about someone and let is sway the way they look at a mass collective of people.
Anyway, this story is depressing and what happened was wrong. All you can do is hope those women found peace after they passed.

Www.jadyeighty.blogspot.com

Posted by: jady at September 8, 2008 5:45 PM

I think cipher 14 brings up very valid points. So when he says christians were responsible for killing 6 million jews in ww2, that misinformation isn't the point he was trying to get across. The POINT was actually blatant and obvious, people regardless of ethnic background or of faith basis, do horrible things. When the media portrays an extreme act commited by an institution or group it becomes socially expected and accepted to connect any one person with the same root beliefs or background as the people who executed these atrocities. So a good muslim is synonymous with a ruthless terrorist, at least in the eyes of a society stuck in a mindset that doesn't function above mediocrity.
However I don't believe anyone should be kept from reading stories such as this one. It's only spreading propaganda and hate if you cannot make up your own mind and realize that this story doesn't apply to all muslims...or if you read a story on a crazy Evangelicast leader somwhere and realize that shouldn't be applied to all christian believers.
My core belief is that hate is an ugly thing and you should be compassionate toward everyone. It's a concept that is so simple and pretty much idiot proof and it is sad that at 22 years of age I'm finding myself smarter than a lot of 30, 40, 43, 60 year olds out there who function on such close minded principles. That is one generalization that can apply to christians and muslims and jesuits and jews and republicans and communists and blacks and whites and everyone in the entire world who has ever heard or read something bad about someone and let is sway the way they look at a mass collective of people.
Anyway, this story is depressing and what happened was wrong. All you can do is hope those women found peace after they passed.

Www.jadyeighty.blogspot.com

Posted by: jady at September 8, 2008 5:46 PM

I think cipher 14 brings up very valid points. So when he says christians were responsible for killing 6 million jews in ww2, that misinformation isn't the point he was trying to get across. The POINT was actually blatant and obvious, people regardless of ethnic background or of faith basis, do horrible things. When the media portrays an extreme act commited by an institution or group it becomes socially expected and accepted to connect any one person with the same root beliefs or background as the people who executed these atrocities. So a good muslim is synonymous with a ruthless terrorist, at least in the eyes of a society stuck in a mindset that doesn't function above mediocrity.
However I don't believe anyone should be kept from reading stories such as this one. It's only spreading propaganda and hate if you cannot make up your own mind and realize that this story doesn't apply to all muslims...or if you read a story on a crazy Evangelicast leader somwhere and realize that shouldn't be applied to all christian believers.
My core belief is that hate is an ugly thing and you should be compassionate toward everyone. It's a concept that is so simple and pretty much idiot proof and it is sad that at 22 years of age I'm finding myself smarter than a lot of 30, 40, 43, 60 year olds out there who function on such close minded principles. That is one generalization that can apply to christians and muslims and jesuits and jews and republicans and communists and blacks and whites and everyone in the entire world who has ever heard or read something bad about someone and let is sway the way they look at a mass collective of people.
Anyway, this story is depressing and what happened was wrong. All you can do is hope those women found peace after they passed.

Www.jadyeighty.blogspot.com

Posted by: jady at September 8, 2008 5:46 PM

I think cipher 14 brings up very valid points. So when he says christians were responsible for killing 6 million jews in ww2, that misinformation isn't the point he was trying to get across. The POINT was actually blatant and obvious, people regardless of ethnic background or of faith basis, do horrible things. When the media portrays an extreme act commited by an institution or group it becomes socially expected and accepted to connect any one person with the same root beliefs or background as the people who executed these atrocities. So a good muslim is synonymous with a ruthless terrorist, at least in the eyes of a society stuck in a mindset that doesn't function above mediocrity.
However I don't believe anyone should be kept from reading stories such as this one. It's only spreading propaganda and hate if you cannot make up your own mind and realize that this story doesn't apply to all muslims...or if you read a story on a crazy Evangelicast leader somwhere and realize that shouldn't be applied to all christian believers.
My core belief is that hate is an ugly thing and you should be compassionate toward everyone. It's a concept that is so simple and pretty much idiot proof and it is sad that at 22 years of age I'm finding myself smarter than a lot of 30, 40, 43, 60 year olds out there who function on such close minded principles. That is one generalization that can apply to christians and muslims and jesuits and jews and republicans and communists and blacks and whites and everyone in the entire world who has ever heard or read something bad about someone and let is sway the way they look at a mass collective of people.
Anyway, this story is depressing and what happened was wrong. All you can do is hope those women found peace after they passed.

Www.jadyeighty.blogspot.com

Posted by: jady at September 8, 2008 5:48 PM

Immoral horrors from the bosom of Islam. Nothing new, to anyone who reads the relevant news stories collected from all over the world every day here at Jihad Watch.

Posted by: traeh at September 8, 2008 8:04 PM

Obviously this isn't a place were the majority of opinions is similar to mine. But I wonder about the inauspiciousness of a forum filled with people who would in a vacuum, post all the horrible things they think of Islam and Muslims. Very curious. If this site were devoted to the evisceration of Jews, Gays or Blacks it would hardly be tolerated, but in this, "be on the lookout for Muslim terrorists", climate... I get it.

I'm not even going to attempt to reply to everyone's comment, but in response to Max Pub: My family and I are in fact devout Muslims, what would cause you to think we weren't? Not wishing death on people? Working? Going to Med School or watching football? And to say I'm a sophist in the context you meant, is to say I'm a liar. I'm not. But I am certainly more of a scholar and thinker than you.

In response to HunterPro: You sir are someone I would love to converse more with. I was not trying to compare Islam with Christianity. I was trying to get people to realize that there are and have been many people who commit horrible crimes maybe not in the name of their faith, but still OF a particular faith, and are NOT representative of all those people. We don't vilify Germans now do we?

Those Nazis were ACTUALLY German citizens, the majority of which claiming to be "Christians". Those Americans who committed the genocide against the Native Indians were ALSO of "Christian" faith. Comparing any kind of slavery world wide to the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade and what Americans did to the Africans is silly. That's like comparing a yard sale to Wal-Mart Corporation. Not the same thing... not even close. When Africans were enslaved by Americans they were stripped of their language, their history, their names, their families and their minds. Granted, the nuclear bombs dropped on Japan probably saved several thousand lives, but that still doesn't erase the fact that Harry S. Truman, a devout Christian gave the order to drop those bombs, knowing full well that many of the victims would be innocent women and children.

I do speak out as a moderate Muslim every chance I get, but the attitudes and atmosphere found here make it very intimidating to step forward. It may come as a surprise to you all, but some closed minded Americans can be very hateful and hurtful toward ordinary Muslim citizens in this country.

It's a horrible position to be in, to either try to defend or distance one's self from these atrocities, believe me... I know. I don't defend the actions of bloodthirsty so-called "Muslims". I just want people to be clear and understand that Muslims are not a monolithic people and there are some who have killed many in the name of God, who do not represent their faith or God at all. But like the true followers of Christ, there are many more Muslims who live quiet peaceful lives without brutalizing or oppressing anyone. It's a shame there are a few ignorant thieves of religion who put a blemish on simply glorifying God.

Posted by: cipher_14 at September 8, 2008 11:14 PM

cipher 14

I have read the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and I have also read the Orwellian 'Cairo declaration of human rights [sic] in Islam'.

First thing I noticed is that whereas the UDHR explicitly and in the strongest possible terms condemns and forbids slavery (see Article 4), the Cairo Declaration *does not*.

Furthermore, the Cairo Declaration continually insists upon the primacy of sharia. And *I* happen to know that sharia, far from forbidding or condemning slavery, takes it completely for granted. The logical conclusion is that the Cairo Declaration - officially endorsed by a great many Muslim countries - *does not* forbid slavery, but rather, tacitly permits and condones it.

You are, simply, wrong, when you argue that slavery as practised in the Americas was worse than Muslim slavery.

I will remind you, first, that the Atlantic Slave Trade started far later, and finished sooner, than the massive slave trade conducted by Muslims, which went on unceasingly from the 8th century to the 20th, accompanied by cruelties of the most extravagant and sadistic kind, and which involved the enslavement, inter alia, of a million Europeans (kidnapped in slave raids on seaside villages as far away as Iceland and Baltimore, Ireland - see the book 'White Gold' for the story of one such slave, Thomas Pellow), hundreds of thousands of people from southeastern Europe and southern Russia, and millions upon millions of Hindus, Buddhists, and black Africans.

One subset of Islamic slavery was the devshirme, the 'blood tribute', by which the Ottoman Turkish Muslims forcibly snatched the prettiest girls and the handsomest and cleverest boys from among the dhimmi populations of Christians and Jews in their Balkan domains, year after year, century after century; the girls vanished into the harems for use as sex slaves, the boys became slave soldiers, the janissaries; both groups were quite obviously, by this process, stripped of their names, memories, history and of course would have lost all contact with their birth families. The testimony of the distraught and griefstricken families whose children were thus seized by the Muslim overlords, is heartrending.

Oh, and the Jews in the Kurdish Muslim areas and in Muslim Yemen were, essentially, chattel slaves.

It is estimated that in the course of the Arab Muslim slave trade in Africa, which began in the 8th century and was not formally ended until 1962 - 1962! - some 120 MILLION people were killed. The most horrific aspect of this Muslim slave trade was the making of young African boys into eunuchs, by the slashing off of all their external genitalia: of those subjected to this obscene mutilation (of course, sans anaesthesia and sans antiseptics) nine out of ten...died on the spot, never even reaching the market. Hagedoorn wrote an article about it, called "The Hideous Trade".

The jihad in the southern and western Sudan during the late twentieth century, and continuing to this very day, involves the kidnapping, rape, enslavement, and forcible conversion to Islam, of large numbers of animist and Christian black Africans, many of them children and young women, who are treated with mind-bending cruelty - and openly racist contempt - by their Arab, or Arabised, Muslim owners. In Mauritania there are Muslim slave-holders, today, keeping men, women and children as slaves.

The Muslim slavetaking in Sudan, like the slavetaking in India during the period of Muslim domination, is both preceded and accompanied by mass murder of genocidal scale. One to two million people have been murdered by jihadists in Sudan. The deathtoll of Hindus, during the Muslim invasions and occupation of India, runs into scores of millions. (See K S Lal on the Muslim Slave System in India).

Of all the millions upon millions enslaved by Muslims throughout the past 1300 years, I think it would be completely true to say that they "were stripped of their language, their history, their names, their families and their minds".

Or perhaps you'd like to argue that a black animist boy from equatorial africa, seized by Arab slavers, emasculated (imagine the trauma - imagine the lifelong nightmares), tormented, whipped, cursed, given a Muslim Arabic name, transported over a thousand miles, to eke out the rest of his life as a eunuch in the harem, surrounded by people of a different ethnicity, a different language, people who treat him with contempt and call him abeed black/slave, has NOT lost his history, his name, his family and his mind?

You might also like to reflect on the fact that those millions and millions of black slaves fed into the heartlands of Islam over the centuries, into Arabia and Turkey and Egypt, have no discernible descendants there today; whereas the descendants of those who went to the Americas form large, vibrant, culturally distinctive populations today.

All of these things are not 'what I think'. They are plain historical facts, abundantly documented, and they are very ugly.

I would remind you, also, that there are Muslims in Pakistan today who have openly stated their intention of conquering India for Islam..and when they do, so they declare, Muslims will be able to have Hindu slaves again.

Do you see people of ANY other religion, anywhere in the world, openly expressing the intention of enslaving persons of another religious or ethnic group?

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at September 9, 2008 12:24 AM

Cipher 14- your comments are like many others who have posted here, the only difference being that you have a better command of English.

You write well but the substance of your writing lacks real purpose. The issues here are not about the American Indians, Hiroshima, or Christianity. The issues are about atrocities that are being committed NOW in the name of Islam, and you know it.

There would be no articles to post here if these things were not happening now. That is not propaganda. Those are ugly facts. I'm sorry if you're ashamed of those who share your faith who commit these crimes in the name of your faith, but they do so because of what is in the holy book of your faith that you yourself must uphold, if you are a true Muslim.

Propaganda is the deliberate spreading of lies. Unfortunately the articles you read here are not lies, and sadly there are new ones every day.

Posted by: charlie at September 9, 2008 12:28 AM