And whom did the Christian Arabs support during all of the years of the "occupation"? Did they also buy into the idea of Arab supremacy, believing they would be protected under Muslim rule, as "people of the book"?

Posted by: PMK at September 14, 2008 10:26 AM

That's so sad. It makes me sad to see that Christians are fleeing from their own holy city because Muslims are driving them out with all these murders and kidnaps etc. Even in the Koran it said this: "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends." , and Fight those who do not believe in Allah, ... until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. [Koran 9.29] This is so horrible that in America people fail to see (except for people like us) what the bad things that Muslims do are, the media, and other people are too afraid that they would be a racist if they considered how bad this could be. Also people feel that Christians are worse than Muslims and that Christians are ones who are doing harm, however, the people that say those things about Christians don't know what's happening in Bethlehem, they don't want to know, they think that knowing and caring would be racist. Me being a faithful Christian, know how sad it is to see Bethlehem taken over and hundreds of Muslims, and Christians being killed in their own home city, the city we believe Jesus was born in. It makes me want to cry.

Posted by: gymnast_2 at September 14, 2008 10:40 AM

That's so sad. It makes me sad to see that Christians are fleeing from their own holy city because Muslims are driving them out with all these murders and kidnaps etc. Even in the Koran it said this: "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends." , and Fight those who do not believe in Allah, ... until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. [Koran 9.29] This is so horrible that in America people fail to see (except for people like us) what the bad things that Muslims do are, the media, and other people are too afraid that they would be a racist if they considered how bad this could be. Also people feel that Christians are worse than Muslims and that Christians are ones who are doing harm, however, the people that say those things about Christians don't know what's happening in Bethlehem, they don't want to know, they think that knowing and caring would be racist. Me being a faithful Christian, know how sad it is to see Bethlehem taken over and hundreds of Muslims, and Christians being killed in their own home city, the city we believe Jesus was born in. It makes me want to cry.

Posted by: gymnast_2 at September 14, 2008 10:40 AM

Civilised infidels don't stand a chance against the army of islam. Only when muslims are seen as an invading army, and treated as such, might we stand a chance of reversing this barbarian cult's intentions of conquering the world for allah.

Posted by: Dsinc at September 14, 2008 11:03 AM

How can Muslims be seen as "an invading army" when they don't invade and they don't colonize? Those days are gone, with the exception of Muslim designs on Israel. They come to the West as refugees and migrants and each is treated as an individual, with respect, according to our laws.
Only when they reach critical mass do they begin making demands. By then it's too late.

Posted by: PMK at September 14, 2008 12:10 PM

In my 7th grade language arts class they don't talk about Christianity at all, there is only about 4 pages on it. There are about 5 Lessons on Islam. My question is why is there so much on Islam and so little on Christianity? Being a Christian I find it kind of offensive. Also how can they say Islam is a peaceful religion, look at all that's going on, I think that the text books ignore everything horrible that they have done and instead only say the few or one good things, for example in the chapter "Rise of Islam in Spain" they say there was advances in technology and that Spain flourished in knowledge when the Muslims came, but they forgot to say how they burnt their churches, murdered people, and basically took over. It wasn't peaceful at all. Soon will the text books be saying how great the rise of Islam in Bethlehem was? If a text book ever tell me that, now I have proof that it wasn't peaceful and of all the horrible things that happened.
I know this because Doeboy was so kind to show me an article about that rise of Islam in Spain.

Posted by: gymnast_2 at September 14, 2008 1:01 PM

gymnast_2,

Forgive me, but what is a language arts class?

In what context is Islam discussed?

"The Rise of Islam in Spain" sounds like history.

Posted by: PMK at September 14, 2008 2:24 PM

If you want an outcry in the West, let's have Israel annex Bethlehem. The Israelis would protect the Christians there just as they do in the rest of Israel. But, do you think the MSM/left wing liberal "elite" around the world would fail to protest...big time?

Posted by: spinoneone at September 14, 2008 2:28 PM

gymnast_2,

Are you in the USA wher ethi sis taking place? I am involved in a discussion on anotehr board on how liberalism is twisting the minds of children in American schools and would love to know more details if you can divulge them.

Please do not give any information you are not comfortable giving.

The enemy reads along with us and we all have to be careful.

What you report completes the picture regarding liberals influencing education in our schools.

They teach about islam but they are on the other hand so very converned about teaching the idea of 'Intelligent Design", which they say is exactly the same as "Creationism".

I am not a Christian and yet I am capable of seeing the difference between Intellgent Design and Creationism.

Noone is forcing me to believe any of it simply for being exposed to it.

Posted by: Ummah Gummah at September 14, 2008 3:04 PM

Look on the bright side...at least the Christians have the means to leave. It's not like they were trapped there with no place to go. Maybe they moved to Jerusalem to offset the Muslim population there.

Now if the Christian population diminished due to a rise in their death rate, then that would be cause for concern.

I think the solution lies with the United Nations. They should petition Washington D.C to have Christians emigrate to Dearborne Michigan.

All kidding aside. What we are seeing is more evidence that this scum needs to be eliminated one way or another. The best we can hope for is for Bethlehem to become 100% Muslim so a Large incendiary explosive device can be dropped on their heads.

Posted by: Globe_Warmer at September 14, 2008 3:09 PM

In another case, a Muslim family appeared uninvited on the doorstep of a wealthy Christian family in Judea and Samaria and demanded that the Christian family's daughter, known for her beauty, marry their son. Their son was already dressed up for his wedding,
sound like the muslim pigs son got turned down by his cousins
accompanied by the sheikh and fifteen Muslim men. To protect his family the Christian girl's father opened fire on the Muslim entourage,

good for him

Posted by: ISLAMSNOTFORME at September 14, 2008 3:42 PM

PMK, Language Arts is usually the "modern" term for what my school used to call "English class" -- literature, grammar, spelling, etc. Interesting that gymnast says this is a language arts textbook and not a "social studies" textbook.

gymnast, Are you in 7th grade? I have an 8th grade son whom I homeschool. If you are a student, there are ways you can counter this.

First, talk to your parents. Are they as upset as you are by what you perceive is a bias against Christianity and for Islam in your books? Are they willing to complain to the school? To contact other parents who would also find this upsetting and complain? Do they think if they complained actual changes would be made? Or would you suffer for it?

Next, do you have to do reports or give presentations in this class? Since your textbook concentrates so much on Islam, you have an opening to present another side of the issue in reports, presentations, or special projects. Pick your topics carefully. Do your research. (Ask here, and we will help you find the resources you need. The fact that your school has chosen biased textbooks may indicate your school library is also lacking.) Use projects to show your teacher and/or class what the evidence says.

Finally, a really great book written for middle school kids is "The Fallacy Detective." It is not about Islam or Christianity -- it is about recognizing bad reasoning. The book has a whole section about identifying propaganda. I can think of few things better for any 7th grader to learn than to recognize when someone (adult, another student, commercial, or even a language arts textbook) is trying to pull one over on you.

Posted by: CJ at September 14, 2008 4:20 PM

I am ambivalent toward my Christian brethren and sistren in the West Bank. They have been among the first and foremost of the Jew hatin'est Jew haters. The Christian Arab spokesmen and women clot our airwaves and nary a word is heard from them about their dhimmi status, or their equal status within the state of Israel, but it's always the Jews and nothin' but the Jews, so help me God. They should have been courageous and stood with the Jews and for the truth, and they are now despised on the one hand, and completely ignored on the other.

Posted by: Jewel Atkins at September 14, 2008 5:48 PM

CJ

I am Gymnasts dad and I have read her books. Her school uses the Language Arts class as a sort of catch all out of structural necessity. It serves as the home room if you will. Islam is covered in her social studies book, and it gives a very matter of fact assessment of the rise of Islam, touching mainly on the positive aspects. It has a long section on the details of the life of a person that practices the Islamic faith, to be honest, without proselytizing. It really doesn't do too bad of a job, but it is a text book, so it like most text books are written, so as to not offend anyone in a multiethnic setting. I have been filling in the blanks for her, but she is lucky she has me to help her understand the nuances completely skipped over. You could read the section on the Islamic conquest of Spain and think that the Spanish were nothing before they were conquered, and lived in harmony under Islam and developed the most advanced society on earth under Islamic rule until the Recoquista, and that is it, the chapter is done. You are left to believe that Islamic integration is this sort of social multiethnic boon to society. It just relays the facts in a sort of least offensive way intended for a multiethnic audience. She is here to develope critical thinking skills on these issues. I will get her the The Fallacy Detective, thankyou so much for the suggestion.

Posted by: ethoman at September 14, 2008 6:31 PM

Well, In my point of view It's annoying that people could be called a racist for telling what actually happened in the time period. They aren't teaching kids everything, so the kids, like me, won't know as much. I'm lucky I have a dad like mine because he tells me the real things that happen. If they gave an example of scripture from the Koran and that piece of scripture was this :"I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle." Would they be called racist? Would they be called racist for putting Muslim scripture in a text book? Its not their fault the scripture says bad things. If people are called racist for writing scripture I don't know what our society has come to.

Posted by: gymnast_2 at September 14, 2008 6:51 PM

Here is a list of links affiliated with the school library extolling the virtues of Islamic science. There are no such links for Hindus, Bhuddists, or Christians though.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050321091211/www.ummah.net/history/scholars/
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/exhibition/islamic_medical/islamic_02.html
http://cwis.usc.edu/dept/MSA/introduction/woi_knowledge.html#34
http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/S/science/society/islamicscience.html
http://www.ais.org/~bsb/Herald/Previous/95/science.html

Fortunatly Islam Unveiled: Disturbing Questions about the World's Fastest-Growing Faith has a pretty good section on Islam and science, which we will read together soon I assure you.

Posted by: ethoman at September 14, 2008 7:09 PM

Islamsnotforme - re the Palestinian Arab Christian father who successfully defended his daughter - I second your sentiments - good for him. It appears that he was confronted by a Muslim wannabe Kidnappers Gang comprising seventeen so-called "men". He got thirteen of them!

He ought to be an asset in the resistance to jihad, anywhere he and his family are now settled.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at September 14, 2008 7:16 PM

Offtopic, but inspired by the presence of gymnast-2, introduced here by her dad, 'ethoman'.

In another thread, I posted, for her benefit, Mr Spencer's detailed exposition of his 'house rules'.

Here are a few thoughts (I speak as a mother of four children aged 18 to nearly-8, including two daughters, one of whom is just two years older than gymnast-2).

Gymnast-2 may not be the only youngster reading here, whether over a parent's shoulder, or alone. She isn't the first youngster to come on board as a poster - remember, 'vikrant', who still drops in occasionally, started posting when he was all of 16.

So: let's try to keep 'venting' and bad language and bad-taste jokes to a minimum, concentrate on intelligent analysis and brainstorming, and make sure we provide properly sourced background information for any assertions about Muslim beliefs and practices. For example: if we say that Islam permits wife-beating, then we always, always cite Qur'an 4: 34 and perhaps link to the relevant section of Mr Spencer's Qur'an Blog.

"The Fallacy Detective" sounds interesting.

Ethoman - has your daughter read 'PIG to Islam and the Crusades'? That one should be in every high school library. Of all the various books dealing with jihad, it's probably the one I'd peg as accessible to any intelligent high school kid - easy to read, clearly set out, and tells you exactly where to find out more.

Ethoman - have you told 'gymnast' the story of Sol Hachuel, as related by Andrew Bostom in 'Note on the Cover Art' to his "Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism"? It's such a sad story; but Sol the Jewish teenager in Morocco was so incredibly brave, teenage kafir girls everywhere ought to know her name and her story, just like they know the name of Anne Frank.

We want non-Muslim youngsters, anywhere between 12 and 20, who lob in here...perhaps they've come across 'Fitna' or 'Obsession', perhaps they're researching something...to feel safe, to get interested, and to stay, and learn. If they come here first without their parents, then one hopes that if the parents follow them here, the parents will stay and learn too, rather than banning their kid from coming!

We want 'gymnast' to feel able to tell her schoolfriends about this site - that it's got lots of useful stuff on it (like 'Islam 101' and the Qur'an Blog, and the booklist).

Who knows - there may be youngsters from Muslim families, too, who are asking themselves questions, trembling on the verge of liberation. We want them, too, to stay and learn - to not feel rejected as human beings, despite our implacable rejection of the ideology of Islam.

Final thought: for Christian parents, possibly even Jewish parents, a useful book for the teenage kid who may have Muslim schoolmates, or who may be encountering the usual da'wa line, 'we are all sons of Abraham' 'we all worship the same God', is Mark Durie's "Revelation? Do We Worship the Same God?". It only costs $15 (Australian); it is short and easy to read, but it is also completely accurate.

It sets out all the key differences between what the Bible - both the Jewish scripture and the Christian scripture - says about God and humanity, and what Islam says; at the end, Dr Durie even presents the main points in tabular form so you can see them at a glance.

Both Dr Andrew Bostom and Bat Yeor, who are Jewish, gave it their imprimatur; they regard it as an accurate account of the way in which Islam attempts to subvert - and nullify - BOTH Judaism AND Christianity.

A teenager, Jewish or Christian, who reads and understands Dr Durie's book, will not be taken in by the usual Muslim flim-flam as presented at many a 'mosque open day'.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at September 14, 2008 7:57 PM

dumbledoresarmy,

Thank you for your wonderful insights this is precisely why I'm on this web site. I'll write down the names of the books you put in your post and my dad will buy them for me. I should be able to read them because my AR reading level is nearly at a collage level and I'm in 7th grade. Thanks so much for telling me these things. :)

Posted by: gymnast_2 at September 14, 2008 8:54 PM

Addendum:

I realized afterward I should have specified that The Fallacy Detective is written from a Christian perspective. The subjects (Assumptions, Statistical Fallacies, Propaganda, etc.) are, of course, universal, but our resident Jewish/atheist/Hindu/etc. readers may disagree with some of the examples. Just wanted to warn anyone who might be disappointed otherwise.

We read the book together aloud, often on car trips (violin class, soccer practice, etc.). Very helpful for a mom who never studied the subject either!

Posted by: CJ at September 14, 2008 9:07 PM

"There are many examples of intimidation, beatings, land theft, firebombing of churches and other Christian institutions, denial of employment, economic boycotts, torture, kidnapping, forced marriage, sexual harassment, and extortion," he said. PA officials are directly responsible for many of the attacks, and some Muslims who have converted to Christianity have been murdered.
...................................

The perpetrators are the same people who have the gall to refer to Israel as "an apartheid state".

More:

"In 2006, Hassan El-Masalmeh, a member of the Bethlehem City Council and local Hamas leader, publicly advocated implementing a discriminatory tax on non-Muslim residents."
....................................

Nothing radical here, of course, from the Muslim point of view--just reinstating the Jizya, don't ya know.

OT, perhaps, but when I was a child one of my favorite Christmas carols was "O Little Town of Bethlehem". I was fascinated with the idea of one day visiting the town. Well, I'd be pretty leery now. Does anyone here remember the severe damage done to the Church of the Nativity in 2002 when Jihadists holed up there? I wonder how much damage will be done to the region's Christian heritage when all of the Christians have been driven out.

Already tourism has tanked in the region because of all the violence. Of course, this is usually blamed on Israel, like all the other ills of the "occupied territories".

Posted by: gravenimage at September 14, 2008 9:09 PM

'Christians leaving for Norway, Australia or any country that will give them a visa'

Unfortunately when Christians arrive in their new country they will find Muslims already entrenched there and going about their work of Islamification. Even New Zealand has allowed Islam to flourish which could be the demise of a small nation in a short time. No country seems to have looked at the effects of uncontrolled Muslim immigration into the UK and have blindly gone down the same route.

Posted by: Tommo at September 15, 2008 5:05 AM

I share Jewel's mixed feelings. Anyone remember Georges Habash and his Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, or the gun-running Hilarion Carpucci?

I am an unabashed replacement theologian and advocate of the Jews coming to M'shiach (Jesus Christ), but I simply cannot countenance publishing the so-called _Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion_, conspiracy theorizing, and advocacy of terrorism. Worse, some of the Arab Christians parrot the disgusting line about the Old Testament being "racist", when, as Christians, they ought to honor it for being four-fifths of the Christian Bible.

Still, I respect that father who shot at the abduction party. It's living proof of Falastin Arab barbarism that there was no Muslim outcry against the abductors or any possibility that the family could remain in their home, respected for his willingness to protect his family.

Posted by: Kepha at September 15, 2008 7:09 AM

How will we ever be able to sing O Little Town of Bethlehem without tears rolling down our cheeks?

O little town of Bethlehem
How still we see thee lie
Above thy deep and dreamless sleep
The silent stars go by
Yet in thy dark streets shineth
The everlasting Light
The hopes and fears of all the years
Are met in thee tonight

For Christ is born of Mary
And gathered all above
While mortals sleep, the angels keep
Their watch of wondering love
O morning stars together
Proclaim the holy birth
And praises sing to God the King
And Peace to men on earth

How silently, how silently
The wondrous gift is given!
So God imparts to human hearts
The blessings of His heaven.
No ear may his His coming,
But in this world of sin,
Where meek souls will receive him still,
The dear Christ enters in.

O holy Child of Bethlehem
Descend to us, we pray
Cast out our sin and enter in
Be born to us today
We hear the Christmas angels
The great glad tidings tell
O come to us, abide with us
Our Lord Emmanuel

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at September 15, 2008 7:10 AM

In less than 50 years, there will no Christians in the whole Middle East. The entire Middle East will be infested with Muslims at near 100% except for Israel which will be 50/50 Jews and Muslims and still at war against 4.5 billion Muslims world wide then.

In 1960, Lebanon's 3 million population was 70% Christian and 30% Muslim. By 1980 it grew to 4 million people with 80% Muslim and 20% Christians. Today's Lebanon population is 4.5 million people with less than 9% Christians. By 2020, the Christians in Lebanon will be less than 1% of the 6 million people then.

Lesson learned, it will take less than 50 years for the US to be more than 50% Muslims and less than 50 more years before the us is 99% Muslim.

Posted by: American at September 15, 2008 11:44 AM