To fight against intolerance is tolerance.

Essentially all the west wants from Islam is reciprocity of freedom of thought and action. If the secular west and Islam can not live together it isn’t due to the intolerance of the tolerant who wish to be treated as equals, but rather the intellectual rigidity of the intolerant against the tolerant, which would force the tolerant away from its tolerant nature in order to preserve its tolerance, against those that would undermine and attack it from within in order to destroy it and replace it with an intolerant model. In effect outlawing Islam in the west would be justifiable in order to preserve tolerance. By using Islamic apostasy concepts the west should consider advocacy of Islam as intolerance of our tolerance. Such a declaration should be considered as treason against the foundation of our existence.

Posted by: ethoman at October 11, 2008 3:06 PM

That was a good interview...Thanks to RS and Geert for making it...Thanks to RS for posting it...

Posted by: duh_swami at October 11, 2008 5:35 PM

What a good and gallant man is Geert Wilders.

And what a good man is our brave Mr. Spencer.

Please, sirs, continue this war against the forces of darkness that are at our doorstep.

Posted by: INFIDELATLARGE at October 11, 2008 10:15 PM

He asks that the US help Europe, but how exactly can we change the situation there when demographics and immigration policy already dictate the outcome. As far as I can see, there is nothing we can do.

Secondly, with Obama and his friendly relations with Muslim Brotherhood front organizations, plus the considerable Muslim immigration (and birthrate of some groups, for example Somalis), we're going to have our hands full. Plus, we're about to have a whole new set of censorship rules imposed, such that the existance of sites like Jihadwatch are in doubt.

Sorry Geert, but we have our hands full already.

Posted by: sonomaca at October 11, 2008 10:17 PM

if you all love freedom of speech so much, why do you arrest people who questions the holocaust?

Posted by: Omar118 at October 11, 2008 10:48 PM

Omar - It's possible we arrest people who question the Holocaust because they need a mental evaluation and could be dangerous to themselves or others.

Posted by: charlie at October 11, 2008 10:59 PM

maybe people who want to BAN THE QURAN should be evaluated too

Posted by: Omar118 at October 12, 2008 12:47 AM

Whoah - you are a bit touchy aren't you?
Unlike those who "questions" the Holocaust the people who would like to ban the koran arent denying an historical fact.
I don't think they would be denying that the Koran exists. I think they would like to ban it because of the violence it DEMANDS, which is a very sane reaction. No - those who would ban the koran should not be evaluated. Those who refuse to see the Koran's inherent dangers to all of the people who are not Islamic should be mentally evaluated, though.

Posted by: charlie at October 12, 2008 1:13 AM

Omar, I take it that you don't believe there was a Holocaust? If so, why would you think this? Why on earth would anyone have a motive to fabricate the Holocaust?

Posted by: charlie at October 12, 2008 1:21 AM

charlie--because people shouldn't just accept things just because someone ssays it. look at faurisson, he studied the holocaust a lot more than you have and has legitimate things to say about it. also, i don't think faurisson is out to hurt anyone, he's out to give facts. so, like i said earlier, you guys always talk about freedom of speech, so don't be hypocritical!

Posted by: Omar118 at October 12, 2008 1:28 AM

Omar

Interestingly enough you Muslims through the recent actions of the OIC may actually be giving legal precedent for western government to do precisely that. Ban the Quran as hate speech under its own rules. You just have to love, I mean really love the irony of that!

Qur'an 8:59 "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

Qur'an 8:65 "O Prophet, urge the Believers to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred. If a hundred, they will slaughter a thousand infidels: for these are a people devoid of understanding."

Qur'an 2:64 "But you [Jews] went back on your word and were lost losers. So become apes, despised and hated. We made an example out of you."

Qur'an 59.14 "The Jews are devoid of sense. There is a grievous punishment awaiting them. Satan tells them not to believe so they will end up in Hell."

Qur'an 33.26 "Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before."

Good news though I hear that there is actually an effort underway in the Netherlands to rewrite an acceptable hate free Quran for the western world!

Posted by: ethoman at October 12, 2008 1:28 AM

Isn't that great!

Posted by: ethoman at October 12, 2008 1:30 AM

Omar, have you ever seen photos or videoclips of the concentration camps? Have you seen photos of Nazi records? If so, do you think they were fakes?
How do you know Faurisson studied more than I have? You don't know me. Have you ever read "Anne Frank"? I read it in the 4th grade and every year after that, and I'm not young, but that story is soft compared to the tales of Dr. Mengele. I started reading about him (on my own) in the 5th grade.
Again, I would like to know WHY you question the Holocaust?

Posted by: charlie at October 12, 2008 1:36 AM

because a lot of bad things happened and was justified by the holocaust. i think anything that has such a huge effect on millions of people (arabs) should be questioned. i don't deny that a lot of people died under hitler, but you dont know it was 6 million, you just accept it. and about your point on anne frank...faurisson said that it was probably faked and written by her dad because the handwriting was too adult. now i don't know for sure that faurisson is right, obviously, but at least im being open minded about it unlike you. also charlie, youre avoiding my point which is that you only believe in free speech when you and people like you can talk. why are you and american and european governments so afraid having people who question the holocaust speak??

Posted by: Omar118 at October 12, 2008 1:44 AM

What do you mean "a lot of bad things happened and was justified by the Holocaust"? What bad things to whom and whose justification, what justice? You question 6 million. What number is OK with you? 6? 6,ooo?

Again, I ask you - have you seen the videos?

And couche-toi about Anne Frank's dad writing the book for her. I know that he didn't. I wish he could kick your ass for her, though.

Posted by: charlie at October 12, 2008 1:56 AM

By the way, Omar, do you think Dr. Mengle's DAD carried out his horrendous experiments and kept HIS notes for him? You din't mention Mengele in your reply.

Posted by: charlie at October 12, 2008 2:01 AM

Ladies and gentlemen, let us all remember one of the first rules of internet discourse...Do Not Feed The Trolls.

The topic under discussion is Geert Wilders and the entirely rational and necessary resistance to jihad and sharia, which resistance must be ratcheted up by all kafir, in Europe and elsewhere. We would all be advised to focus, resolutely, on what Wilders and Spencer have said in the clip which Spencer has posted for us, here.

Aside to any non-Muslim first-time visitor here - 'Omar118' typifies, in every respect, the Mohammedan approach to argument.

'Omar' also typifies Mohammedan antisemitism, that is, Islamic hatred of Jews. For a comprehensive examination of the hatred of - and often murderous contempt toward - Jews (not just of Israel) which is coded into Islamic sacred texts and Islamic law, and has been consistently manifested in Muslim practice for 1300 years, see Andrew Bostom's encyclopedic study and anthology, 'The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism'.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at October 12, 2008 2:04 AM

charlie do you even read my comments? i dont know how many people died during the holocaust. all im saying is NOBODY DOES, so why do we have to just accept 6 million and shut up?
and, obviously, the bad thing that was justified by the holocaust was the creation of the state of israel. look at the hell palestinians are living in right now because of israel.

Posted by: Omar118 at October 12, 2008 2:09 AM

I am afraid of letting people who question the Holocaust speak because insanity is scary, but I do believe in freedom of speech. It is a right here (unless it asks for imediate acts of violence or impinges on the rights of others.) that's why the KKK can still hold rallies. I'm afraid, but I'm not a coward. There is a difference.

Posted by: charlie at October 12, 2008 2:11 AM

You're rright, Dumble. I'll put this troll on a diet right now. It's really hard to sit by and let someone deny the Holocaust, though.

Posted by: charlie at October 12, 2008 2:15 AM

So Omar, no holocaust? Why then did over 70% of Dutch Jews die in Nazi Germany? Including all my uncles and aunts, and their parents. I was lucky, I happened to live in Indonesia (where I was born, which BTW doesn't make me a Muslim - and where I was put in a Japanese prison camp, which doesn't make me a hero).
So, there was no holocaust in Germany? Yes, some very stupid people who still see Jews as evil beings, say there was no holocaust. And there were probably no prison camps in Asia? No Burma railway, no river Kwee bridge? I mean, those graves in Thailand, they are just stones with names, aren't they? Empty graves, no real bodies. It is all fake, Omar! The bomb on Hiroshima was a hoax too, you bet!

BTW, the denials of the holocaust by Robert Faurisson are "undone" by people who really know what they are talking about. Even his former soul mates proofed him wrong.

n.b. Before the Germans built the camps, they used sealed trucks to gas people.

Posted by: Hannifay at October 12, 2008 2:47 AM

you guys are ridiculous. i never said the holocaust never happened, i just said it's right to question it because of what you guys here on jw always say, you want freedom of speech. and you people do this all the time, you jsut go out and say someones a troll and ignore them when you have nothing to say to them. i brought up the holocaust because spencer said wilders was a "fearless and insightful defender of free speech", will he also defend a questioner of the holocaust? i doubt it.

Posted by: Omar118 at October 12, 2008 3:06 AM

I think it's past your bedtime, Omar.

Posted by: charlie at October 12, 2008 3:14 AM

Omar

Spencer would defend your right to declare yourself a Nazi right here and right now. He would allow you to collate your Nazi views via Islamic scripture any day of the week if you so choose. Delete this post if I am wrong via the moderator … all TROLLS aside, otherwise known as Omar.

Posted by: ethoman at October 12, 2008 4:40 AM

Omar118: I believe in free speech and I'm going to exercise it now.
You are a vile, nauseating and contemptible Jew hater. Go to hell!

Posted by: johndoe at October 12, 2008 9:20 AM

Spencer interviews Geert Wilders, Part 4

unofficial transcript:

Geert Wilders:

Many, many countries and the gap between the political elites and the folks populi is very, very large, yes, and if the bridge will not be crossed, then I think it will be even sooner that there would come a majority of people who would fight against it.

Robert Spencer:

So, that question, I suppose is actually a component of a larger question which is, there are many people in the United States who say Europe is lost. The demographic data is so prohibitive that there will be Muslim majorities very soon in most of the Western European countries. And that the elites are so supine or either supine or complicit. What possible hope can there be? Do you hold out that out for the future?(?)

Geert Wilders:

Yes, well, what I hope . . .what I also said when I spoke at the lunch meeting for the Hudson Institute of New York this week . . .I hope that America will not be the last man standing. That and if in a few years, a few decades time, they will wake up one day and say that, "Who the hell lost Europe, Who lost Europe? Europe is gone!" You have here an ally and it's gone. It became an Islamic Europe. We have no partner politically. We have no partner economically. We have no partner militarily. It's all gone. Our friend became the enemy. The only country to defend our values and to defend the heritage of Rome and Venice and Jerusalem will be America. Help us not to let that happen. What can we do? We can implement laws, like I said, anti-Sharia laws. We can be far more tougher on our immigration laws. It's really important because, indeed you are fully right if you look at the demographics, we are already losing that war. I mean, in my country the birth rate is something like 1.8% and as you know, you need 2.1% . Most of our Moroccan and Arab or Islamic people in my country have something like 2.6-7-8%. It's all over Europe, it's the same. Fortunately, in America this is not the case yet. So, we have to think about it as the fact that we are in fact, in a war. Like in the past, it's not a conventional war. It's not that the armies of the Arab's are in front of the gates of Vienna, as it was some centuries ago. Or at Portier. This is not the case anymore. I wish it was conventional because then people could see who the enemy was and they were willing to fight it. It's not conventional. It's done by demographics. It's done by immigration and it's done by appeasement by the elite. We cannot win this war if we take measures both on Sharia, both on immigration . When it comes to when people are welcoming people into the country or not. We should be making an enormous effort because we are in a war and our leaders are surrendering before they even fought.

Robert Spencer:

Yes they are. Yes. In many cases it's because of very short sighted political or economic calculations. Of course, Sharia finance is a very grave problem with the wholesale buying up of so much of Western properties, Western capital assets. . .so many things. What would you say to bankers, to financiers, to economists who think that it's a simple necessity to make various concessions and accomodations to deal with the Islamic world and Islamic finance?

Geert Wilders:

I say to them, to bankers as I say to other people that are accomodating . . .It sounds in the short term it might sound attractive to your business but in the long term you will pay the price and the price will be that you will have nothing to say anymore about your investment, about your bank . ..it will be gone entirely. It will be out of your hands. Don't think you are dealing with a Swiss bank or Bank from the Caribbean whatsoever. You are dealing with a bunch of people that at the end of the day want to submit you, to rule you, and want to enforce on you their ideology. You will have nothing to say and you will have helped them making your own grave. This is something that people should be aware of, they should not do.

Robert Spencer:

Yes. Well, of course thats the main problem there is no awareness of these issues. That also, is of course, is why we are having this interview. That's one small step, one small blow in trying to overturn the hegemony of the mainstream. Do you find that in the Netherlands, the mainstream press coverage is as uninformed, as ignorant as, perhaps also as complicit in this as is the government is also?

Geert Wilders:

Yeah. They are very very complicit. Of course, there are some exceptions, but 95% of the Dutch press is leftish, is liberal, is politically correct, is not objective in any possible way . This is one of our major problems.
Indeed, Robert. Not only in the Netherlands but in all, my colleagues in all the other countries . Maybe it's the same in the United States. That it's very hard to get some honest press covering. Whether you write a speech. Whether you write an aritcle or even if you write a book, they will label you as a 'racist' , as 'fascist', even. Only if you talk about, if you use one word about Islam or dhimmitude. In my country, we paid a lot of millions of taxpayers money to a huge public broadcasting company. It's very unfair because at least we should have more liberal or more conservative, left and right kind of broadcasting companies. We don't. It's 95% one sided and it's now it is so important - so important - people hardly, unfortunately read , the common people hardly read books. They watch TV almost all day. So, if you are on TV and the image that you get on TV is so very important. So, I believe, that's what I proposed an amendment we should get rid of totally of the public TV. Maybe at one channel when it was something going on . For the rest, let the market , let the market decide what will be broadcasted. I'm sure that our voters, our electorate is more balanced than the media today and everybody is paying for that.

Robert Spencer:

Yes. Absolutely, everybody is. So, I understand you have been getting some mainstream press coverage in the United States while you have been here in the last few days.

Geert Wilders:

Yes, well when I am . .. this is always for me it's always an enormous privilege to be in the United States. Even though, with all the security surrounding it, it's like , it's like coming home. I have the same feeling when I go to Israel many times. When I arrive at Ben Gurion Airport or when I arrive at Washington or New York Airport. When I meet people like yourself, but also other people, it's like. it's like another world. Not only the free world but it's like there are more people in support and understanding. Then, at least when you look at the level of the elite in Europe and it's very strange. That's why I'm not only so proud about what America is doing even though it makes a lot of mistakes, and, but, it's almost the last bastion of freedom. My message to, my meeage is to every American I tell to . . .You are losing Europe. You will be the last man standing. Don't mess up yourself, but make sure that you invest in your European allies..

Posted by: heroyalwhyness at October 12, 2008 10:57 AM

The holocaust...The German Nazi's were record keeping fanatics. They even filmed many of their atrocities.
I have seen captured Nazi films depicting unspeakable horrors...The old TV documentary about WW2, 'Victory At Sea', had many of these captured films.

I worked with a army vet, who was one of the first US soldiers through the prison gates of one of the famous death/labor camps (I have forgotten which one). What he saw there changed his life forever. If you told him the holocaust never happened, you would have to fight him on the spot.

Yet six million Jews dead, an impressive number, pales next to the number of people murdered in the Islamic holocaust called jihad. Something like 70 million murdered Hindu's alone...Allah/Mohammad is a bigger Hitler than Hitler, but they both drank from the same goblet...

Posted by: duh_swami at October 12, 2008 11:01 AM

its great to see that atleast people here on JihadWatch get whats really going on in Islamic world. Geert Wilders and Robert are heroes...

Posted by: Kafir4ever at October 12, 2008 5:00 PM

Paging all aussie jihadwatchers, both regular posters and lurkers - '

how, how, how do we get these two men, Wilders and Spencer, to Australia, as soon as we possibly can?

sheikyermami - if you're reading this - any ideas?

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at October 12, 2008 10:09 PM

Qur'an 59.14 "The Jews are devoid of sense.

Then why do Jews with only 0.23% of worlds population have 162 Nobel prizes. That's 21.6% of the worlds total of Nobel prizes ever awarded.
Whereas Muslims with 21% of the worlds population have only 6 Nobel prizes. And one of those went to
Yasser Arafat ?.
The disparaging difference ? What's taught in the classroom. Israelis love life. Muslims love death.

Posted by: Blue at October 12, 2008 11:02 PM