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Frank Gaffney speaketh truth to power: "Expert Warns Obama To Avoid Islamic Finance," by Dave Eberhart for NewsMax, November 5:
Frank Gaffney of the Center for Security Policy warns that the president-elect should avoid financing his great society with tainted Islamic-correct petro dollars, saying their strings might be attached inextricably to the nation’s worst extremist enemies.With Barack Obama’s victory Tuesday sucking the oxygen from the air, few are focusing on Thursday, the day the U.S. Treasury Department will embrace the so-called “Shariah-Compliant Finance” or SCF.
If “Shariah” doesn’t ring any bells other than sounding foreign and somewhat ominous, it is simply the “religio-political-legal code authoritative Islam seeks to impose worldwide under a global theocracy,” Gaffney said.
The Treasury Department will host a “seminar for the policy community” entitled “Islamic Finance 101,” and it’s all about getting warm and fuzzy with SCF. Co-sponsoring the event is the Islamic Finance Project at Harvard Law School.
Harvard has benefitted mightily from the infusion of millions of dollars from a Wahhabi Saudi prince and his government, Gaffney said.
Yes, it’s all about money.
U.S. financial institutions, reeling from the credit crunch, are hungrily eyeballing more than $1 trillion in petrodollars, including Shariah-compliant bonds, mutual funds, mortgages, insurance, hedge funds, and real estate investment trusts.
Dow Jones Corp. has even created its own index for Islamic-correct investments: the Dow Jones Islamic Index, according to The Coalition to Stop Shariah.
Enter Uncle Sam, the always cash-strapped giant that must feed at any convenient trough these days, regardless of what strings are attached.
And what a trough it is. The global Shariah market is growing at a 15 percent pace, courtesy of the oil boom and resurgence in Islamic fundamentalism, according to the Center for Security Policy. It’s expected to more than double during the next 10 years.
Attractive chunk of available change and maybe even an imperative, but some watchdogs are ringing alarm bells.
Investors Business Daily recently examined Shariah-compliant finance and its involvement with investments and other transactions that have been structured to conform to the orthodox teachings of Islamic law.
“That means they can’t charge or earn interest, the cornerstone of our credit-driven economy,” the business publication advised. “Nor can they take any stake in ‘haram,’ or forbidden, industries, including meat and beverage producers (if they process any pork or alcohol); entertainment; gaming; and interest-based financing.
“Wall Street is jumping into this hot new market oblivious to the risks not just to the bottom line, but to national security. It knows little about Shariah law and is turning to consultants to create ‘ethical’ products to sell.
“Lost in the hype over these Muslim-friendly funds is that they must ‘purify’ their returns by transferring at least 3 percent into Islamic charities, many of which funnel funds to terrorists.”...
Read it all.
Posted by Robert at November 5, 2008 2:47 PM
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From an article, or rather, a book-review and summary by Daniel Pipes of Professor Timur Kuran's indispensable study, "Islam and Mammon":
"Islamic economics increasingly has become force to contend with due to burgeoning portfolios of oil exporters and multiplying Islamic financial instruments (such as interest-free mortgages and sukuk bonds). But what does it all amount to? Can Shari'a-compliant instruments challenge the existing international financial order? Would an Islamic economic regime, as an enthusiast claims, really imply an end to injustice because of "the State's provision for the well-being of all people"?
To understand this system, the ideal place to start is "Islam and Mammon," a brilliant book by Timur Kuran, written when he was (ironically, given heavy Saudi backing for Islamic economics) King Faisal Professor of Islamic Thought and Culture at the University of Southern California.
Now teaching at Duke University, Kuran finds that Islamic economics does not go back to Muhammad but is an "invented tradition" that emerged in the 1940s in India. The notion of an economics discipline "that is distinctly and self-consciously Islamic is very new." Even the most learned Muslims a century ago would have been dumbfounded by the "Islamic economics."
The idea was primarily the brainchild of an Islamist intellectual, Abul-Ala Mawdudi (1903-79), for whom Islamic economics served as a mechanism to achieve many goals: to minimize relations with non-Muslims, strengthen the collective sense of Muslim identity, extend Islam into a new area of human activity, and modernize without Westernizing.
As an academic discipline, Islamic economics took off during the mid-1960s; it acquired institutional heft during the oil boom of the 1970s, when the Saudis and other Muslim oil exporters, for the first time possessing substantial sums of money, provided the project with "vast assistance."
Proponents of Islamic economics make two basic claims: that the prevailing capitalist order has failed and that Islam offers the remedy. To assess the latter assertion, Kuran devotes intense attention to understand the actual functioning of Islamic economics, focusing on its three main claims: that it has abolished interest on money, achieved economic equality, and established a superior business ethic. On all three counts, he finds it a total failure.
1) "Nowhere has interest been purged from economic transactions, and nowhere does economic Islamization enjoy mass support." Exotic and complex profit-loss sharing techniques such as ijara, mudaraba, murabaha, and musharaka all involve thinly disguised payments of interest. Banks claiming to be Islamic in fact "look more like other modern financial institutions than like anything in Islam's heritage." In brief, there is almost nothing Islamic about Islamic banking which goes far to explain how Citibank and other Western majors host far larger Islam-compliant deposits than do the specifically Islamic banks.
2) "Nowhere" has the goal of reducing inequality by imposition of the zakat tax succeeded. Indeed, Kuran finds this tax "does not necessarily transfer resources to the poor; it may transfer resources away from them." Worse, in Malaysia, zakat taxation, supposedly intended to help the poor, instead appears to serve as "a convenient pretext for advancing broad Islamic objectives and for lining the pockets of religious officials."
3) "The renewed emphasis on economic morality has had no appreciable effect on economic behavior." That's because, in common with socialism, "certain elements of the Islamic economic agenda conflict with human nature."
Kuran dismisses the whole concept of Islamic economics. "[T]here is no distinctly Islamic way to build a ship, or defend a territory, or cure an epidemic, or forecast the weather," so why money? He concludes that the significance of Islamic economics lies not in the economy but in identity and religion. The scheme "has promoted the spread of antimodern currents of thought all across the Islamic world. It has also fostered an environment conducive to Islamist militancy."
Indeed, Islamic economics possibly contributes to global economic instability by "hindering institutional social reforms necessary for healthy economic development." In particular, were Muslims truly forbidden not to pay or charge interest, they would be relegated "to the fringes of the international economy."
In short, Islamic economics has trivial economic import but poses a substantial and malign political danger."
[Posted by: Hugh at February 18, 2008]
Nota Bene the antepenultimate paragraph:
"[T]here is no distinctly Islamic way to build a ship, or defend a territory, or cure an epidemic, or forecast the weather," so why money? He concludes that the significance of Islamic economics lies not in the economy but in identity and religion. The scheme "has promoted the spread of antimodern currents of thought all across the Islamic world. It has also fostered an environment conducive to Islamist militancy."
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at November 5, 2008 3:14 PM
Now, c'mon Robert, it's true that I'm still heavily drugged from my visit to the dentist, but you don't really think you can smuggle that phrase past me just by substituting a "speaketh" for a "speak," do you? That's not change I can believe in.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/022123.php#c565705
Posted by: Hugh at November 5, 2008 3:18 PM
This is huge folks...much more relevant than footbaths in airports.
This is how the Islamic world plans to use the window of opportunity created by its accumulated oil wealth (a commodity that will be obsolete within a matter of decades)...to capture the world.
Posted by: Cornelius at November 5, 2008 3:58 PM
The traitors at Treasury are no different than the so-called freemen militias who stop paying taxes and declare independence. They have chosen to disrespect the government of the United States.
The pyschosis of treason is catching like a disease. Harvard needs an enema.
As a muslim's mecca is a non-muslim's hell (see what happens if a non-muslim gets in) so too a muslim's ethics is a non-muslim's death sentence.
Posted by: Max Publius at November 5, 2008 4:14 PM
It's depressing, Cornelius; very depressing.
(And on this, an already depressing day.)
Posted by: Vee at November 5, 2008 4:15 PM
I hear you Vee.
My remedy...momentarily retreat into the little things in life that give you joy (family, creative talents, exercise, etc)...
...and after recharging for a couple of days, come out swinging.
We're in the opposition now; there are advantages, believe it or not. Let the Dems start taking responsibility for the state of affairs, and watch the pendulum swing back.
Posted by: Cornelius at November 5, 2008 4:22 PM
I've been expecting to hear about this since the dawn of the credit crunch, another item that seems to have been missed is that the Saudis are already buying up shares in struggle banks.
What is equally worrying is that Gordon Brown is actively pushing for the Gulf States to sponsor the IMF, and is openly talking about how the structure of the IMF can be re-organised to limit US and G7 dominance to make room for the "rising power[s] in the Gulf".
Posted by: Tziona at November 5, 2008 4:23 PM
I was going to add:
Posted by: Tziona at November 5, 2008 4:26 PM
Dunno why that didn't show (try again):
http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=111&sid=1509238
at November 5, 2008 4:27 PM
OT, but get a load of Charles Johnson's latest insight over at LGF...
"As much as anything else, this election was a referendum on the social conservative agenda, and the social conservatives did not win."
AS MUCH AS ANYTHING ELSE???
AS MUCH AS THE FINANCIAL MELTDOWN OCCURRING A MONTH BEFORE THE ELECTION???
Jesus.
Posted by: Cornelius at November 5, 2008 4:28 PM
Sharia Finance has been available here in the united States for more than 23 years.
Suddenly it's now the new "anti-terror!" punching bag?
What a crock.
It is unconstitutional to tell the populace how they have to manage and invest their money...or are you all calling for "Hugo Chavism" here in America?
Inquiring mind wants to know, who cares if we ditch interest bearing investments for more solid dependable returns?
Peace
Abdullah Mikail
at November 5, 2008 4:29 PM
Cornelius,
"This is huge folks...much more relevant than footbaths in airports. "
Enlighten us then with your knowledge of Islam:
Question: Could the housing sector melt down have occurred under Sharia finance?
Not "would it have", but "could it have"?
Your turn.
Peace
Abdullah Mikail
at November 5, 2008 4:33 PM
Sharia compliant investements are good pure sources for Muslims to invest in, but do they make money?
You tell me:
Fund-Indx Name-Symbol-
Price/Value-Change % Change YTD %
Iman Fund-IMANX-
6.15 4.24 0.25 -34.92
Dow Jones Islamic Market US Index IMUS
1752.57 3.78 63.87 -27.97
S&P 500 - Price SPX
1005.75 4.08 39.45 -31.51
Peace
Abdullah Mikail
at November 5, 2008 4:40 PM
Abdullah,
I've challenged you on the other thread. If you're eager to debate, go there.
As for your question here, I will answer it this way...
Had the Muslims won the battle of Tours and conquered the world...and Sharia finance became the norm for most of mankind from the 8th century on, there would have been no Enlightenment, no Industrial Revolution...and the primary mode of travel today would still be horse and camel.
Posted by: Cornelius at November 5, 2008 4:47 PM
Question: Could the housing sector melt down have occurred under Sharia finance?
Kind of like watching an Olympic sprinter pull a hamstring and then asking "could that have happened to a man in a wheelchair?"
Posted by: Abu Allah at November 5, 2008 5:02 PM
Question: Could the housing sector melt down have occurred under Sharia finance?
Not "would it have", but "could it have"?
Your turn.
Peace
Abdullah MikailPosted by: Abdullah Mikail at November 5, 2008 4:33 PM
That's a very difficult question.
The Bedouin, (from the Arabic badawī (بدوي), pl. badū), are a desert-dwelling Arab nomadic pastoralist, or previously nomadic group, found throughout most of the desert belt extending from the Atlantic coast of the Sahara via the Western Desert, Sinai, and Negev to the Arabian Desert.
Gosh, I guess the answer is that the
housing sector melt down could NOT have occurred under Sharia finance.
As long as you have a warm camel on the cool desert nights, you're good.
Piece.
Posted by: witness at November 5, 2008 5:23 PM
Cornelius,
Seems you forgot about these Muslims who actually enabled a lot of the "Industrial Revolution" as well as other scientific advancements...and there wasn't even an "Islamic World Dominion", imagine that.
You imagine and pretend, I provide proof.
Muslim polymaths included: al-Biruni, al-Jahiz, al-Kindi, Abu Bakr Muhammad al-Razi, Ibn Sina, al-Idrisi, Ibn Bajja, Omar Khayyam, Ibn Zuhr, Ibn Tufayl, Ibn Rushd, al-Suyuti[47] Geber, al-Khwarizmi, the Banu Musa, Abbas Ibn Firnas, al-Farabi, al-Masudi, al-Muqaddasi, Alhacen, Omar Khayyám, al-Ghazali, al-Khazini, Avempace, al-Jazari, Ibn al-Nafis, Nasir al-Din al-Tusi, Ibn al-Shatir, Ibn Khaldun, and Taqi al-Din, among many others.
Muslim Polymaths that contributed to the scientific advancement of the world without “Islamic World Dominance”
al-Biruni,
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Al-Biruni.html
http://www.albalagh.net/kids/history/biruni.shtml
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9015394/al-Biruni
al-Jahiz,
http://www.salaam.co.uk/knowledge/al-jahiz.php,
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9043249/al-Jahiz,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Jahiz
al-Kindi,
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/al-kindi/,
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/arabic-islamic-judaic/ http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/kindi/index.html,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Kindi
Abu Bakr Muhammad al-Razi,
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Razi.html,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Razi
Ibn Sina,
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/sina/ http://www.ummah.net/history/scholars/ibn_sina/
http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/islam/learning/ibnsina.html
al-Idrisi,
http://www.ummah.net/history/scholars/IDRISI.html
http://www.unhas.ac.id/~rhiza/saintis/idrisi.html
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9042038/ash-Sharif-al-Idrisi
Ibn Bajja,
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ip/rep/H023.htm
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ibn-bajja/
http://www.bookrags.com/Ibn_Bajjah
Omar Khayyam,
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Khayyam.html
http://www.okonlife.com/
www.britannica.com/eb/article-9057079/Omar-Khayyam
Ibn Zuhr,
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Avenzoar
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S1072751504008154
http://www.britannica.com/eb/question-280879
Ibn Tufayl,
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ip/rep/H030.htm
http://i-cias.com/e.o/i_tufayl.htm
http://www.erbzine.com/mag18/yaqzan.htm
Ibn Rushd,
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ir/
http://www.iep.utm.edu/i/ibnrushd.htm
http://www.trincoll.edu/depts/phil/philo/phils/muslim/rushd.html
al-Suyuti Geber,
http://metaexistence.org/goldenage.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_science
al-Khwarizmi,
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Al-Khwarizmi.html
Al'Khwarizmi was an Islamic mathematician who wrote on Hindu-Arabic numerals and was among the first to use zero as a place holder in positional base notation. The word algorithm derives from his name. His algebra treatise Hisab al-jabr w'al-muqabala gives us the word algebra and can be considered as the first book to be written on algebra.
http://www.mathsisgoodforyou.com/people/alkhwarizmi.htm
http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9045366/al-Khwarizmi
the Banu Musa,
http://www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Banu_Musa_al-Hasan.html
http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Banu_Musa.html
Abbas Ibn Firnas,
http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1910.htm
http://maysaloon.blogspot.com/2007/05/salute-to-abbas-ibn-firnas.html
“It was quite interesting, but my eye caught the name of 'Abbas Ibn Firnas who was credited with the first scientific attempt at flight in recorded history”
al-Farabi,
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ip/rep/H021.htm
http://i-cias.com/e.o/farabi.htm
http://www.trincoll.edu/depts/phil/philo/phils/muslim/farabi.html
al-Masudi,
http://www.hyperhistory.com/online_n2/people_n2/persons4_n2/almasudi.html
http://www.cambridgemuslims.info/DidYouKnow/AlMasudi/Default.htm
al-Muqaddasi,
http://www.islamicbookstore.com/b4140.html
http://www.bysiness.co.uk/Classical_Other/almuqaddasi.htm
Alhacen,
http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/ALHACEN
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/summary/117349347/SUMMARY?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
al-Ghazali,
http://www.ghazali.org/
http://www.trincoll.edu/depts/phil/philo/phils/muslim/ghazali.html
http://www.cis-ca.org/voices/g/ghaz-mn.htm
al-Khazini,
http://www.cis-ca.org/voices/k/al_khazini.htm
http://www.geocities.com/pieterderideaux/khazini.html
Avempace,
http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Avempace
http://www.bartleby.com/65/av/Avempace.html
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761573830/avempace.html
al-Jazari,
http://www.muslimheritage.com/day_life/default.cfm?ArticleID=188&Oldpage=1
http://www.bookrags.com/Al-Jazari
http://www.history-science-technology.com/Articles/articles%206.htm
“History of the water clock” too cool!
Ibn al-Nafis,
http://www.famousmuslims.com/IBN%20AL-NAFIS.htm
http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/nafis.html
http://www.medhunters.com/articles/timelineIbnAlNafis.html
Nasir al-Din al-Tusi,
http://www.famousmuslims.com/NASIR%20AL-DIN%20AL-TUSI.htm
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Al-Tusi_Nasir.html
http://www.ummah.net/history/scholars/TUSI.html
Ibn al-Shatir,
http://www.muslimheritage.com/topics/default.cfm?ArticleID=501
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1976QB36.I24L54....
http://www.angelfire.com/il/Fernini/ifscience.html
Ibn Khaldun,
http://www.muslimphilosophy.com/ik/klf.htm
http://www.ummah.net/history/scholars/KHALDUN.html
http://www.humanities.mq.edu.au/Ockham/y67s17.html
Taqi al-Din
http://www.history-science-technology.com/Notes/Notes%201.htm
“The First Steam Turbines”
http://www.muslimheritage.com/topics/default.cfm?ArticleID=466
at November 5, 2008 5:39 PM
If one wants some guide to what Islam means for the economy, simply imagine Saudi Arabia, or the U.A.E., or Kuwait, or Qatar, or Libya, or Iran, as they were before Western economies had a need for oil and gas, and discovered it, among other places, in the Middle East and North Africa , and developed those fields, and organized the transportation by ship or pipeline of that oil and gas.
Just take Saudi Arabia. Without oil, it would look like...Somalia.
That should not surprise. Islam teaches the habit of mental submission -- do not question, for you as an individual do not count, but only as part of a collective, the Umma, and you may ask what is Prohibited, and what is Commanded, but you may never exercise your own judgment or reason, for Allah Knows Best.
And Islam also encourages, even as see in the phrases that are so commmon, a kind of constant reinforcing of the message of Inshallah-fatalism, that is the notion that Allah can whimsically distribute or remove his favors from you, without so much as a by your leave. These two attitudes -- inshallah-fatalism and mental submission, combined with the habit of mental submission, leads to an absence of both hard work (why bother, with that fatalism?) and entrepreneurial flair (that requires a view of the individual's significance, and the value of what is new -- compare the Muslim ban of "bida").
There is no Muslim state or society, no polity or people, who have developed on their own, without relying -- as was done for many centuries -- on the wealth to be extracted from local non-Muslims under Muslim rule, that is by means of the Jizyah. Nowadays, Muslim states have two ways of getting wealth: from oil and gas, that is from a mere accident of geology, or from the aid they manage to keep extracting from Infidels, though not ever from their rich fellows in the Umma. And Muslims in the welfare states of Western Europe have also managed to exploit to the hilt, and then some, the generous benefits set up by, and paid for by, Infidel taxpayers -- Muslims in France, Great Britain and elsewhere have free education and health care, at levels never attained in any Muslim state, and free or low-cost subsidized housing, and even family allowances. The transfer of wealth, in the countries of Western Europe, from Infidel taxpayers to Muslim recipients of such aid, is staggering. Not as staggering, however, as the amounts spent on the transfer of wealth, from Infdiel oil-consuming nations, to the Muslim oil-producers. Since 1973 alone, that amounts to about eleven trillion dollars. And what have the Arabs and Muslims done with it? Some skyscrapters and thousands of private palaces. Not a single factory or farm that is competitive with anything in the outside world. And economies still completely dependent on foreign wage-slaves.
That's the economic development made possible by Islam.
Posted by: Hugh at November 5, 2008 5:40 PM
abdullah, so early arabs were progressives? good for them. So, what's up with your 21st century regressive arab barbarians?
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/18338/girl-stoned-to-death
(warning graphic images, may disturb normal westerners but have islamic jihadists dropping their trousers)
Posted by: leon at November 5, 2008 5:54 PM
Abdullah, yea, we've heard it all before...the Muslims invented 0 (except that they didn't, they just brought it from India to the West).
It's like everything else; Muslims built upon the collective knowledge of the cultures they conquered. The Caliphate thrived for as long as there was a significant dhimmi population from which to draw knowledge and educated new converts, but once the depredations of dhimmitude sapped the life out of the non-Muslims and their community withered in size and energy, this corresponded exactly with the end of the so-called Golden era of Islam.
So it is today. Hugh is absolutely correct; the vitality of the Gulf states is directly correlative to the infidel appetite for their oil....oil discovered by Western geologists, extracted by Western engineers, and used by Western consumers. Without the West's appetite for oil, Saudi Arabia would resemble Yemen or Somalia.
PS - I suppose Muslims discovered America too?...and were the first to walk on the moon?
Posted by: Cornelius at November 5, 2008 6:05 PM
warning graphic images, may disturb normal westerners but have islamic jihadists dropping their trousers)Posted by: leon at November 5, 2008 5:54 PM
It seems that this video was removed; too offensive to islam to show islamics murdering a defenseless girl by hitting the poor thing with stones for three hours until she dies in agony.
It might give the wrong impression of islam; wonder what the girl was thinking at the time.
Posted by: witness at November 5, 2008 6:12 PM
Abdullah,
The following from Wikipedia is typical of the thinkers that Islamist apologists put forth. They are Muslim apostates who were in constant danger of death fatwas:
"Despite a strong Islamic training, it is clear that Omar Khayyam himself was undevout and had no sympathy with popular religion,[14] but was not by any means an atheist, as suggested by the verse: "Enjoy wine and women and don't be afraid, God has compassion". Some religious Iranians have argued that Khayyam's references to intoxication in the Rubaiyat were actually the intoxication of the religious worshiper with his Divine Beloved - a Sufi conceit. This however, is reportedly a minority opinion dismissed as wishful pious thinking by most Iranians.[15]
It is almost certain that Khayyám objected to the notion that every particular event and phenomenon was the result of divine intervention. Nor did he believe in an afterlife with a Judgment Day or rewards and punishments. Instead, he supported the view that laws of nature explained all phenomena of observed life..."
at November 5, 2008 6:18 PM
For those who would like to go through the list provided by a Defender of the Faith above, the same names, a dozen or two dozen, always trotted out, and always from at least a thousand years ago (but what has Islam Done For Us Lately?), and always including the names of "Muslims" who in many cases were the children or grandchildren of Christians and Jews, and had been raised in a non-Muslim milieu, and furthermore, the most important names on those lists were of those who were regarded as dangerous freethinkers, such as ar-Razi (Rhazes, the most famous man of science in high Islamic civilzation).
In any case, one can also compare that same predictable list of two dozen names to the thousands of names of artists (where are the Muslim sculptors? Painters? Musicians? There aren't any, and we all know why), writers, political thinkers, philosophers, that one can find having constributed to the development of the art, science, culture of the Western world. Go to the world's great museums, concert halls, libraries. There is so little that comes from Islam, you have to search all over to find it. That is not an accident. It comes from a Total Belief-system that discourages free and skeptical inquiry, that regards all knowledge outside Islam with contempt, for Islam contains Everything (hence those crazy pamphlets by Muslim propagandists attempting to show that all of modern biology, or geology, or elementary particle physics, somehow was prefigured, mysteriously, in this or that passage of the Qur'an).
at November 5, 2008 6:22 PM
"PS - I suppose Muslims discovered America too?...and were the first to walk on the moon?"
Posted by: Cornelius
I don't know about the moon, but apparently they do claim discovery of the New World. Check out (from Abdullah's list of links above)
http://www.cambridgemuslims.info/DidYouKnow/AlMasudi/Default.htm
Abdullah, some of your links are broken. You should check your master list for viability before simply cutting and pasting to a forum like this.
Posted by: Eastview at November 5, 2008 6:59 PM
Eastview,
It went even further than that...Muslims apparently unearthed an ancient Algonkian Indian chief by the name of El Rahman....and extrapolated from this that Muslims had come long ago and converted the natives.
This fiction was about to become fact in our own classrooms and textbooks until the Algonkians themselves caught wind and protested the usurpation of their past. Had a renowned white historian protested, it would have been in vain, but because our cultural gate-keepers didn't want a firestorm from the Algonkians, the historical revisionism was shelved (for the time being).
Google: Islam, Algonkians
Posted by: Cornelius at November 5, 2008 7:44 PM
Eastview
from jannah.org Islam peace
http://www.jannah.org/articles/future.html
"The future is bright for Muslims if we make the right choices today. We are blessed with amazing riches in the Muslim world. Over 40 per cent of the mineral wealth of the planet lies under Muslim countries. We have thousands of doctors, engineers, scientists and intellectuals. We spend billions in technology, especially for the military."
Dr. Abdullah Hakim Quick, the author of "Al Masudi's Map of the World".
Dr. Quick also lectures at the University of Pennsylvania.
Which, incidentally, seems to show Europe and Africa and not the Americas anywhere on that map, which looks like it was drawn by my 3 year old niece.
and this is rather amusing from one of his entertaining candlelit supper talks at the University of Miami, wonder if Mrs Bucket went?
http://www.islamictorrents.net/details.php?id=13070
He analyzes Christmas,pork and kwanza, and having non-muslim friends.
Posted by: leon at November 5, 2008 7:44 PM
"candlelit suppers...Mrs. Bucket"
Leave Hyacinth alone.
Posted by: Hugh at November 5, 2008 11:07 PM
Question: Could the housing sector melt down have occurred under Sharia finance?
Hell, while we're at it, why don't we just discuss all the advantages of the economic system of Papua New Guinea over that of Japan?
Posted by: Abu Allah at November 6, 2008 9:14 AM
Cornelius
It is obvious you missed the medical journal that was written by a Muslim doctor, he didn’t find it in a pile of “war booty”…he wrote it, and it was the standard of Western medicine for 600 years.
You attempt a pathetic brush off of the accomplishments noted without researching them.
That is why I provided many links to each Muslim polymath to underline their individual accomplishments.
You can run your digital mouth and make a big show but anyone with any research skills can go follow the links and see how pathetic your riposte is…an ineffectual, weak, failure.
You try to belittle their accomplishments as if they had stolen them…all scientific discoveries made by any human being were advancements on existing sciences, and this is true with the discoveries noted, but if you could follow the research from some of the university links you would find original discovery in many many fields...not just medecine, but social sciences, phsycial sciences, botany, astrology, etc.
Sorry Charlie, no point.
Peace
Abdullah Mikail
at November 6, 2008 1:53 PM
Hugh,
"(but what has Islam Done For Us Lately?), "
I thought you'd never ask, glad you did.
We Muslims most often point back to the scientific glories of the early Muslims to show the strength and progressive nature of Islam and its obvious benefit to the world...due to the motive of faith they sought knowledge, preserved knowledge, and transmitted knowledge to everyone regardless of who they were...the medical journal for Europe after all was for humanity a 600 year blessing...not just Muslims.
There is an attempt in the modern age to marginalize Islam and discredit the accomplishments.
It is only propoganda.
I forward a humble list of current accomplishments of modern Muslims:
20th century1931 - 1942 [chemistry] Salimuzzaman Siddiqui was a leading Pakistani scientist in natural products chemistry. He is the pioneer in extracting chemical compunds from the Neem and Rauwolfia, and is also known for isolating novel chemical compunds from various other flora in the Indian subcontinent. As the director of H.E.J. Research Institute of Chemistry, he carried out extensive research with a team of scientists on pharmacology of various plants to extract a number of chemical substances of medicinal importance.
1944 - 2000 [medicine, engineering] Iranian physician and engineer Toffy Musivand invents artificial cardiac pump as treatment for heart failure, and develops "remote power transfer for implantable medical devices, remote patient monitoring (telemedicine), biofluid dynamics to reduce/eliminate thrombosis in blood conducting devices, patient care simulation centre, detection devices and methods for detection, in situ sterilization, medical devices (failure analysis and regulatory process), and medical sensors."
1953 [economics] Pakistani developmental activist Akhtar Hameed Khan pioneers the concept of microcredit
1960 [physics] Iranian physicist Ali Javan invents the gas laser
1961 [astronautics, space exploration] Azerbaijani rocket scientist Kerim Kerimov becomes one of the founders of the Soviet space program and one of the lead architects responsible for the launch of the Vostok 1, the first human spaceflight.
1965 [mathematics; formal logic] Iranian mathematician Lotfi Asker Zadeh founded fuzzy set theory as an extension of the classical notion of set and he founded the field of Fuzzy Mathematics
1966 [astronautics, space exploration] Kerim Kerimov becomes the lead scientist of the Soviet space program.
1967 [astronautics, space exploration] Kerim Kerimov launches the Cosmos 186 and Cosmos 188 (the precursors of space stations), during which mutual search, approach, mooring and docking were automatically performed for the first time in the history of space exploration.
1967 - 1972 [astronautics, space exploration] Farouk El-Baz from Egypt worked for NASA and was involved in the first Moon landings with the Apollo program, where he was secretary of the Landing Site Selection Committee, Principal Investigator of Visual Observations and Photography, chairman of the Astronaut Training Group, and assisted in the planning of scientific explorations of the Moon, including the selection of landing sites for the Apollo missions and the training of astronauts in lunar observations and photography.
1969 [engineering] Bangladeshi engineer Fazlur Khan, regarded as the "Einstein of structural engineering" and "the greatest architectural engineer of the second half of the 20th century" for his designs of structural systems that remain fundamental to all high-rise skyscrapers, designs and constructs the John Hancock Center.
1969 [chemistry, medicine] Iranian scientist Samuel Rahbar discovered glycosylated hemoglobin (HbA1C), a form of hemoglobin used primarily to identify plasma glucose concentration over time. He was also the first to describe its increase in diabetes.
1971 [economics] Bangladeshi economist Muhammad Yunus, founder of Grameen Bank, successfully applies the concept of microcredit to the first microfinance banking system.
1971 [astronautics, space exploration] Kerim Kerimov launches the first space station, the Salyut 1.
1972 - 1982 [astronautics, space exploration] Kerim Kerimov launches more space stations as part of the Salyut series.
1973 [engineering] Fazlur Khan designs and constructs the Sears Tower. Standing at 527.3 metres tall, it remains the world's tallest building up until the construction of the Burj Dubai in 2007.
1973 [mathematics, formal logic] Lotfi Zadeh founded the field of fuzzy logic.
1979 [physics] A Pakistani theoretical physicist, Abdus Salam, received the Nobel Prize in Physics for his pioneering work on the electroweak interaction theory which is the mathematical and conceptual synthesis of the electromagnetic and weak interactions 1980s [engineering, nuclear physics] Pakistan was the first Islamic country which successfully developed nuclear technology, under the leadership of Abdul Qadeer Khan
1985 [astronautics, space exploration] Sultan bin Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud becomes the first Muslim astronaut in space, as a Payload Specialist aboard the STS-51-G Space Shuttle Discovery, completed on June 24
1985 [astronautics, space exploration] Muhammed Faris is selected to participate in the Intercosmos spaceflight program on September 30 as the first Syrian in space
1986 [astronautics, space exploration] Kerim Kerimov launches the Mir, the first consistently inhabited long-term research space station and which holds the record for the longest continuous human presence in space.
1987 [astronautics, space exploration] Muhammed Faris becomes the first Syrian in space aboard the Soyuz TM-2 and Soyuz TM-3 expeditions to Mir space station. He is awarded the Hero of the Soviet Union and Order of Lenin titles later that year.
1988 [astronautics, space exploration] Abdul Ahad Mohmand becomes the first Afghan astronaut in space, aboard the Soyuz TM-5 expedition to Mir space station
1990 [economics] Pakistani economist Mahbub ul Haq co-develops the Human Development Index 1994 -
1998 [astronautics, space exploration] Talgat Musabayev becomes the first Kazakh astronaut in space, as a flight engineer aboard the Soyuz TM-19 (for over 125 days) and commander aboard the Soyuz TM-27 (for over 207 days) expeditions to Mir space station
1995 [computer science] Iranian American computer scientist Pierre Omidyar becomes the founder of eBay
1997 [physics, string theory] Iranian physicist Cumrun Vafa, one of the leading string theorists of modern times, develops the F-theory and proposes the Vafa-Witten theorem
1998 [architecture, engineering] The world's tallest twin towers, the Petronas Twin Towers, is built in Malaysia
1999 [chemistry] Egyptian chemist Ahmed Zewail is awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for his advances in femtochemistry 21st century
2000 [computer science] Many of the core components of PayPal, including its real-time anti-fraud systems, is designed and implemented by Bangladeshi American software engineer Jawed Karim
2000 - 2007 [chemistry, geometry, literature] In electrochemistry, Iranian scientist Ali Eftekhari is regarded as a founder of electrochemical nanotechnology, particularly for his development of carbon nanotubes. He also carries out scientific research on the field of fractal geometry and applies it to different aspects of science, thus pioneering the concepts of fractal electrochemistry, electrochemical reactions, and fractal geometry of literature.
2001 [astronautics, space exploration] Talgat Musabayev travels to the International Space Station as a commander aboard the Soyuz TM-31 and Soyuz TM-32 for over seven days. In total, he has spent over 339 days in space, making him one of the top 25 astronauts by time in space.
2001 [physics] Iranian physicist Mehran Kardar is awarded the Guggenheim Fellowship prize for his development of the Kardar-Parisi-Zhang (KPZ) equation
2004 [astronautics, space exploration] Anouseh and Amir Ansari set up the Ansari X Prize to encourage private spaceflight research.
2005 [computer science] PayPal is re-designed and upscaled to 63 million users by Jawed Karim.
2005 [computer science] Jawed Karim pioneered the idea of a video hosting service with a web browser-embedded video player and co-founded YouTube as a result.
2006 [economics] Bangladeshi banker and economist Muhammad Yunus and Grameen Bank receive the Nobel Peace Prize for their pioneering work on microcredit and microfinance banking.
2006 [nuclear physics] The United Nations Security Council demands that the nuclear program of Iran be suspended but Iran, the second Muslim nation with a nuclear program (after Pakistan), has rejected the demand
2006 [astronautics, space exploration] Anousheh Ansari becomes the first woman to travel to the International Space Station, the first Muslim woman in space, and the fourth space tourist 2006 [technology] Prodea Systems is founded by Hamid, Anouseh and Amir Ansari.
2007 [engineering] The Burj Dubai, currently under construction in Dubai, reaches 585.7 metres in height, surpassing the Sears Tower (previously constructed by Fazlur Khan) as the world's tallest building.
2007 [astronautics, space exploration] On October 10, Sheikh Muszaphar Shukor travels to the International Space Station (ISS) with his Expedition 16 crew aboard the Soyuz TMA-11 as part of the Angkasawan program, and becomes the first Malaysian astronaut in space and the first Muslim astronaut in space during Ramadan. The National Fatwa Council writes the Guidelines for Performing Islamic Rites (Ibadah) at the International Space Station, giving him advice on issues such as how to pray in a low-gravity environment, how to locate Mecca from the ISS, how to determine prayer times, and issues surrounding fasting. On October 17, he celebrated Eid ul-Fitr aboard the station.
2007 [astronautics, biology, medicine, industry, orthopedic surgery, space exploration, technology] Sheikh Muszaphar Shukor, who is both an astronaut and an orthopedic surgeon, becomes the first to perform biomedical research in space. His medical experiments aboard the ISS were mainly related to the characteristics and growth of liver cancer and leukemia cells, and the crystallisation of various proteins and microbes in space. The experiments relating to liver cancer, leukemia cells and microbes will benefit general science and medical research, while the experiments relating to the crystallisation of proteins, lipases in this case, will directly benefit local industries in Malaysia . Lipase are a type of protein enzymes used in the manufacturing of diverse range of products from textiles to cosmetics, and the opportunity to grow these in space will allow Malaysian scientists to producing these locally rather than importing them.
END
That's just the twentieth and twenty first century...now, Hugh is where you either;
A) Sterotypically make a rapid search for the one thing you can take issue with
B) Sterotypically Scoff some more and say "But they weren't from a dominant Islamic country.
C)Or be original and admit Islam and Muslims have greatly contibuted to civilization and culture.
Which will it be?
Peace
Abdullah Mikail
at November 6, 2008 2:05 PM
Eastview,
I apologize for the broken links...hopefully enough of them survived time in order to prove the point.
I will research them and correct them but I'll not repost it here.
Peace
Abdullah Mikail
at November 6, 2008 2:14 PM
Leon,
Here's a map drawn by a Westerner from around that time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hereford_Mappa_Mundi_1300.jpg
Seems he drew liek a three year old as well, huh?
Peace
Abdullah Mikail
at November 6, 2008 2:25 PM
Abdullah,
What do you want to bet that 99% of those eminent Muslims cited in your offering to Hugh had a WESTERN education?
Posted by: Cornelius at November 6, 2008 3:16 PM
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