"...putrefy in Sharia purity."

Wow, what a visual.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at November 16, 2008 7:23 PM

Yes lets bring them into the United States and start the whole cycle of degradation. You know as JW has pointed out looking at Islamic countries the whole of the UMMAH they are a total mess. What does it take for people to realize the X factor is Islam.

Posted by: savsiv at November 16, 2008 8:14 PM

Democracy? Isn't that the will of the people?

The people of Somalia became tired of the militias and the criminals and the violence they committed while they were being supplied ans supported from outside forces claiming to be "peace makers".

There was a popular movement to return to the roots of a once strong Islamic government and this came from the natives of Somalia...not the Yemnis, not the Ethiopians, not "foreign Islamists"...but the Somali people who are tired of the corrupt inept leadership and a wanton civil war fueled by outside forces.

They want a change because what the outside world is trying to force on them is the same old oppression and violence they were trying to escape.

They want peace in their own land in their own way, a rule by Shura, a will of the people.

They want Peace,
Abdullah Mikail

Posted by: Abdullah Mikail at November 16, 2008 8:38 PM

Robert....that is not a shark, it's a tuna or albacore.........think sushi and sashimi.

The Islamic sharks are all over Africa the Northern half of the Continent is pretty much under their control already. They do have to contend with the Chinese, whose influence and investment is massive. I expect that they will come to some sort of an agreement soon.

And where is the USA in all of this? Don't ask.

(Look for higher prices in the Coffee, Chocolate, and Diamond markets.)

Posted by: Miluimnik at November 16, 2008 8:52 PM

That's funny. I thought tuna grew in cans.
Cordially,
Robert Spencer

Posted by: jihadwatch at November 16, 2008 9:06 PM

Abdullah Mikail,

Since when has democracy come not from a voting booth, but from the barrel of an Al-Queda sponsored Jihadist movement? Isn't Sharia Law the antitheses of democracy? Doesn't it vehemently oppose equality between people? Does it not condone brutal repression and regressive authoritarianism under the guise of the Uhmmah and it's Warlord chieftain called the Caliph?

Nice AM… now you’re claiming democracy is a rifle butt to the head.

Posted by: senor doeboy at November 16, 2008 9:10 PM

"This does raise the question of whether they will replace the city cleaners, or let the city putrefy in Sharia purity."

The thing that I most admire about Robert is that he doesn't let reality get in the way of his writing. As a result, one is treated to a host of amusing and comical drivel on all sorts of topics, Somalia included.

Of course, we all know that when the great ICU was in charge in Mogadishu (second half of 2006), there was serious street clean-up for the first time in years... Of course we all know that under this moderate Islamic ICU, led by Sheikh Sharif Ahmmed, that food aid came to the port in Mogadishu, something that the foreign(and Spencer)-backed TFG is not in any way capable of doing, mainly because they lack democratic support. But who needs democracy anyway??? Well, we like it here in America. Black/colored Muslims don't deserve it yet because they tend to make these bad choices when they get to the polling booth (Hamas et al.)... Democracy, stamped with the approval of Republicans, that's what the world needs, but for some reason these crazy crazy crazy Muhammadans want their own version of democracy/gov't something, and don't seem to care about the Republican seal of approval. What is wrong with them??? Well, they are Muslim...

Posted by: jasonrfruit at November 16, 2008 9:31 PM

As when they controlled the capital in 2006, the Islamists are again providing much-needed security in many areas...
....................

Reuters is not the only news organization to spout this sort of idiocy--it is virtually accepted wisdom at this point. Is whipping dancers, killing street cleaners, civilian shoppers, and--God help us--humanitarian aid workers and a little victim of mass rape barely into her teens "providing security"? Or is it even more evil than the chaos it is supplanting?

Somalia is virtually 100% Islamic--and about as close to Hell on Earth as it is possible to get.

Posted by: gravenimage at November 16, 2008 10:23 PM

Miluimnik
You beat me to it, you are correct that is a member of the tuna family, not a shark.

Abdullah Mikail, or anyone else:
Wasn't it Somalia that hosted Osama bin Laden back in the 1990s, before the U.S. Embassy bombings? I'm not certain of the dates, but I seem to recall Somalia sheltering bin Laden as he re-grouped his forces in preparation for the next round of Islamist mischief. Things were bad then, and worse now. When was this peaceful Somalian interlude you refer to, that everyone wants to return to?

I thought it was their OWN GOVERNMENT who's slaughtering them now, not "old oppression and violence from the outside world."

Seems to me the "outside world" is looking on in horror as the Islamists are on a bloody rampage.

Last, the "Shura" you mention...do you mean Islamic Law? You can't possibly imply that Sharia is "will of the people?"

Please explain?

Posted by: corax at November 16, 2008 10:59 PM

So Mr. Gravenimage,

Am I supposed to take your word over Reuters now?

In any case, despite these incidents to the contrary (I for one am with you in not supporting such stupid acts as we've heard coming out of Somalia), the situation, as Reuters indicates, is far better under the Islamists. To understand that, one must understand that Ethiopia, with US support, took out a popular government and engaged in much indiscriminate killing, so much that these recent incidents pale in comparison.

Read the news Mr. Gravenimage. Go visit some of these places if you have the opportunity. You'll understand.

Posted by: jasonrfruit at November 16, 2008 11:06 PM

ABDULLAH: "Democracy? Isn't that the will of the people?"

Once again, we witness the convoluted vision of our resident Islamist, who confuses the capture of town after town via the barrel of a gun...with "democracy".

So we can anticipate a future right here in America when fanatics-in-denial like Abdullah (and his dhimmi apologist fellow-travelers) will justify all manner of violence and supramacism as "democratic".

Posted by: Cornelius at November 16, 2008 11:30 PM

Somali Jihad not only resurgent, but nearly triumphant. "Somali president says Islamists control most of country,"

Well there goes the neighborhood, Somalia never has been 'up', but it's all down hill from here...

As far as city cleaners are concerned, no worry, Mohammadans make excellent janitors.

Guns for mops and toilet brushes...now we are talking 'moderate Muslims'...

Posted by: duh_swami at November 16, 2008 11:36 PM

Cornelius...I ignore most of what this lolly pop says. His main focus is to suck posters in so he can hijack the thread.

He does have some entertainment value, but that is limited.

He says he spent what, 13 years studying Islam, and he is still searching for the truth?

Elusive isn't it?

Allah hid it really well...

Posted by: duh_swami at November 16, 2008 11:57 PM

Actually, I believe it's a catfish.

On the lighter side, this just sounds like another of President Bush's victories in the War on Terror. They will be dining at the White House.

Posted by: HotSpur at November 17, 2008 12:11 AM

When I hear liberals drip with praise for Somalia's islamists and how wonderful they supposedly were before they were so unfairly thrown out by evil Christian Ethiopia backed by evil USA I realise why I rejected liberalism few years ago.

Islamists captured Mogadhishu from a group of secular but thuggish warlords in June 2006. They immediately got down to the godly business of removing heads from their perches; amputating arms of petty thieives san anaesthesia; whipping girls as young as 11 for not wearing the foulest hijabs you could imagine in the 48 C Mogadishan heat and of course banning everything. Oh how they love banning things except of course killing: they banned music, singing, drumming(this is an African nation where drumming and dancing is not only part of life it almost genetic). They even banned watching football on telly(soccer to you)which caused a riot. Apparently, and this is almost endearing, they had no idea how to react to youths rioting because they werent told which bits of the boys they should cut off. Is it kosher to remove their ears or should they go down south?

They even introduced something called kisas - which is essentially legalised revenge killing. On one occassion they handed a 16 year old boy a big knife and asked him to stab to death a man convicted of murdering the boy's father. The boy,a skinny little thing kept on trying of course. Took him 16 stabs apparently.

Oh and they declared war on Ethiopia, america, infidels, Kenya, gays, secular Somali, coloured goats - anything alive or dead that doesnt accept their version of Sharia. You think I am joking dont you? I assure you I aint. They introduced beheading for not praying five times a day!

These are the kind primeval monsters these liberals are crying for. Ethiopia was horrified and terrified by what was taking place across its 1,000 mile border and decided to act. The fact it is now bogged down does not mean its intervention was not justfified. It also behaves with remarkable humanity and restraint in keeping with its 2000 year old Christian heritage and civilisation.

BTW this ancient Christian kingdom did commit one major crime against humanity: It saved Islam from early demise by protecting its first followers from the meccan pagans. Now look where it got her... and us.

Posted by: Gorgi at November 17, 2008 5:51 AM

Posted by: senor doeboy at November 16, 2008 9:10 PM (and Cornelius as well...

“Since when has democracy come not from a voting booth,…”

Well, let’s just see:

War against Native America (continuous)

War of Independence 1776

War of 1812

Civil War 1860

Mexican American War

Wow, you got me…how could I have been deluded into thinking Democracy had something to do with guns and young men killing one another? It is a rule by majority consensus and, sadly, it has always started with a popular uprising against tyranny and guns.

Argue with that.

Peace
Abdullah Mikail

Posted by: Abdullah Mikail at November 17, 2008 7:30 AM

Posted by: Cornelius at November 16, 2008 11:30 PM

So you deny that there was ever a need to take up arms against oppression and exercise the will of the people for the people by the people?

Taxation without representation, remember?

George Washington was the first American Terrorist to steal arms, munitions, an army, and then a country from the rightful government…do you deny this?

Are you even a real American, Cornelius?

And your closing projection bias is quite revealing of your delusions, well fed, I must add, by your quality “Islamic” education here at JW by the “Scholar” running this board.

Peace
Abdullah Mikail

Posted by: Abdullah Mikail at November 17, 2008 7:35 AM

Those look like little girls carrying the fish on their heads. They're wearing dresses.

Posted by: Bingo at November 17, 2008 7:48 AM

Posted by: corax at November 16, 2008 10:59 PM

So what are you trying to say?

Wasn’t it we in the 80’s who armed supported and enable the Mujahidin of Afghanistan, Bin Laden among them?

Mogadishu has had continuous warlord driven violence and bloodshed for more than a decade which ceased when the ICU secured the city. Then, yes, outside forces supporting the warlords as well as Ethiopia re-asserted the same disorder and violence that existed before.

And a Shura is leadership through majority consensus…a cabinet. And I can and did say the will of the people is for self determination. They are tired of the incompetence and corruption of the former Somali government.

I persoanlly know people there who work for humanitarian organizations and together we built a hospital for women because prior to its construction those women had to walk 100 miles for prenatal care.

What did the government of Somalia do for them?

What did the President, the entity supposedly responsible for caring for the citizens, do?

They did nothing. He did nothing.

They are worthless figureheads, the former President is worthless…he is not a reflection of the will of the populace and he does not have their best intersts in mind…that makes him a Despotic ruler with Ethiopian backers…nothing more than a gun wielding thug.

The Somalia President is a worthless pawn, useless, discredited; the people will never follow him.

Truth
Abdullah Mikail

Posted by: Abdullah Mikail at November 17, 2008 10:26 AM

jasonrfruit wrote:

So Mr. Gravenimage,

Am I supposed to take your word over Reuters now?

In any case, despite these incidents to the contrary (I for one am with you in not supporting such stupid acts as we've heard coming out of Somalia), the situation, as Reuters indicates, is far better under the Islamists. To understand that, one must understand that Ethiopia, with US support, took out a popular government and engaged in much indiscriminate killing, so much that these recent incidents pale in comparison.

Read the news Mr. Gravenimage. Go visit some of these places if you have the opportunity. You'll understand.
.....................

Actually, jasonrfruit, that's "Ms. Gravenimage" to you.

My problem with Rueters--and many other news agencies--is their uncritical acceptance of the Islamists bringing "security" to Somalia--as if this totalitarian violence resembled anything that most Westerners would regard as "security".

You say you do not support "such stupid acts as we've heard coming out of Somalia"--by this I suppose you mean such acts as stoning 13-year-old rape victims to death, amputating thieves' hands, killing teenage boys for watching the World Cup, or kidnapping Western aid workers. I am glad to hear that.

However, such horrors are the very definition of Shari'ah. They are not excesses or mistakes. All of these atrocities, and more, are entirely "Islamic".

As for your kind suggestion that I visit this model Islamic society, I think I'll pass. As an unveiled Western woman in a country so dangerous that even the humanitarian aid workers have pulled out, I think I might be rather a target--for kidnapping, for rape, and for murder.

But then, I do agree with you--if I subjected myself to such things, I imagine that you're right in saying "You'll understand". I'm sure I would--my understanding would be quite profound--of course, it might also be quite short-lived.

Posted by: gravenimage at November 17, 2008 12:41 PM

Abdullah Mikail ,

So you want to “just see”?

Let’s look again at your “proofs”

Abdullah Mikail said, “War against Native America (continuous)”

Not sure where you get the idea of “continuous warfare” against Native America, but the battles and wars with Indigenous Americans were over territory, they were not over the form of the government.

Abdullah Mikail said, “War of Independence 1776”

This war was over Independence of the American Colonist from the English crown. The form of government wasn’t chosen until after the guns had been silenced and the ratification of the Constitution happened. The ratification happened through a Representative form, in a meeting called the Constitutional Convention. In fact, the form of Government was still so much a question that after the Convention, Benjamin Franklin was asked if it was a Monarchy or a Republic. I’m glad to say it is a Democratic Republic.

Abdullah Mikail said, “War of 1812”

This again was a European territorial dispute that the young American Nation entered on the side of France against England in hopes of a favorable out come of territorial disputes in Canada. Again only the fact the US could have lost it all to the English Crown was there any issue of Democracy at stake.

Abdullah Mikail said, “Civil War 1860”

Perhaps you missed out on the fact that the American Civil War was over States Rights vs. Individual Rights. And if you notice, it was individual rights that won. Which means, the State can’t place one individual into bondage of another, based on genetics, class, or creed. In other words, no Sharia Law!

Abdullah Mikail said, “Mexican American War”

This again was a territorial dispute between the Republic of Mexico and the Republic of the United States of America. How are you getting anything dealing with democracy involved in this war? Also, an FYI, the Mexican America War was chronologically prior to the Civil War. In fact many of the senior officers involved in the American Civil War served together as junior officers in the Mexican American War.

Abdullah Mikail said, “Wow, you got me…how could I have been deluded into thinking Democracy had something to do with guns and young men killing one another?”

I’m not sure how you became delusional, but if you think guns and slaughter mean democracy, then perhaps we should ask the people of Cambodia, or China or Tibet, or the USSR, or any of the other places that the guns ushered in a repressive authoritarian regime.

Abdullah Mikail said, “It is a rule by majority consensus and, sadly, it has always started with a popular uprising against tyranny and guns.”

Not all “popular” uprising have lead to democracies, and frankly you have yet to prove Mohammedanism is capable of living in a democracy that respects the individual rights of it’s citizens as equals. Again Mohammedanism is not capable in it’s current form of long term peaceful co-existence with any other religion. And you have yet to prove that.

Oh and AM, keep your peace to yourself, I’m very aware to a Mohammedan the only Peace that can come is through submission or Dhimmitude (which is still not very peaceful).

Again, Nice Taqqiya there AM.

Posted by: senor doeboy at November 17, 2008 9:56 PM