| FrontPageMag.com | Articles By Robert Spencer | Articles By Hugh Fitzgerald | Books | Islam 101 | Qur'an Blog | Robert Spencer Bio |  |
|
|
|||||||||
|
|
Who are the attackers in Mumbai?
According to AFP, they're "militants" and "extremists."
According to the Press Trust of India, they're "terrorists."
According to the Indian Foreign Minister, they're backed by "elements in Pakistan."
AP speaks of "suspected Muslim militants," and the Jerusalem Post dares to write about "Islamic terrorists," but in general in the mainstream media there is the expected reticence about identifying the attackers as jihadists or as Muslims at all, and no discussion whatsoever of the Islamic texts and teachings that almost certainly inspired them to this spree of murder and mayhem.
And some will say: what does it matter? There are "extremists" in every religious tradition. You are intent on identifying these attackers as Muslims and jihadists solely out of some irrational hatred for Islam, or racism, or bigotry, or some such.
The response to this is that it is impossible to defeat an enemy one does not understand. Islamic theology and law provide innumerable insights into the behavior and priorities of the jihadists -- and that may be why the Organization of the Islamic Conference is so intent on getting the UN to criminalize any critical examination of Islamic texts and teachings, even for counter-terror purposes. It is not "insulting to Islam" to notice that the Mumbai attackers identify themselves as "mujahideen" -- that is, jihadists, and jihad is an Islamic religious, legal, and political concept. That concept is in play here in numerous ways, and this story reveals another: the Mumbai jihadists set free their Muslim hostages, almost certainly because of Islamic strictures against fighting against one's fellow Muslims (cf. Qur'an 4:92, which prohibits a Muslim from killing another Muslim).
"Turkish couple let off by terrorists for being Muslims," by Clara Lewis and Anahita Mukherji in the Times of India, November 28 (thanks to Pamela):
MUMBAI: When faced with a volley of gunshots, while sipping coffee at the Oberoi Hotel on Wednesday night, Ali Arpaciouglu, a Turkish citizen on a business trip to Mumbai, chose to escape through the hotel kitchen and down a flight of stairs that opened onto the road outside.This was probably one of the best decisions he took. On the other hand, his business partner, Meltem Muezzinoglu, and her husband, Seyfi, both Turks, when faced with the same situation, decided to dash out of the restaurant and head upstairs instead. When terrorists laid siege to the hotel, the Muezzinoglus were held hostage....
The Muezzinoglus, however, found themselves in a hostage situation, along with a group of foreigners. That night, they shared a room with three foreigners - all women. Two machine-gun-wielding terrorists stood guard over them the whole night.
All the hostages were asked to reveal their religion. When the Muezzinoglus said they were Muslims, their captors told them that they would not be harmed. The other three Caucasian women were removed from the room next day, and the terrorists informed the Muezzinoglus that they had been shot....
Posted by Robert at November 28, 2008 6:56 AM
Print this entry
| Email this entry
| Digg this
| del.icio.us
|
sarcasm on/
"When the Muezzinoglus said they were Muslims, their captors told them that they would not be harmed."
Wow, at least the captors were not islamo-phobic.
![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at November 28, 2008 7:49 AM
Exactly! What a relief!
Posted by: Infidel Pride at November 28, 2008 7:52 AM
lesson here, when a terrorists asks you what religion you are, tell them muslim as l would logically assume 99.9 percent of the time a terrorist is a muslim. serious this could save your life.
Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at November 28, 2008 8:05 AM
It's really sad to watch the morning news in which only the generic terms "extremists" and "militants" are used. When everyone knows damn full well who the Perps are. Disgusting political correctness.
Posted by: darcy at November 28, 2008 8:32 AM
It becomes more clear as each day passes that Islamic terrorism is a religious war...a global religious war. Islams soldiers do not wear uniforms and do not advance in the ways of armies of ages past. Today Islam attacks in small groups and even individually, the attacks may be militaristic or may be political as in demanding footbaths, halal food for prisoners, separate swimming pools, veils for id cards, and so on and so on. Islams Army marches on in the form of mass immigration and participates in polygamy in a most ungodly manner, which if not checked will ensure victory just by generating numerically superior forces, forces of violent youths trained from birth to kill or otherwise eliminate the non Muslim.
A few years ago Muslims did not openly mention "religious war", but now several of the Muslim terrorist groups and others in important Islamic positions such as Clerics are openly saying Islam is engaging is a "religious war". The actions of their troops prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is now occuring..
We see new battlefronts open every day in many parts of the world, the streets of Paris, Amsterdam, London, Frankfurt, Malmo, Rome, New York and in many other cities in many other countries. We see riots, vandalism, assaults, rapes, intimidations, extortions, and frivilous lawsuits ever increasing.
Where ever Islam appears, peoples rights are abused and eliminated one by one...freedom of speech being high on the list, the list also includes religious freedom. One of Islams main goals is to silence its critics, another is to dominate and/or eliminate all those who are Non Muslim..
Chances are if you have Muslims in your neighborhood, the enemy has arrived...They may appear to friendly...a friendship that will dissolve once more troops arrive...
Without a stern and positive resolve enforced by such actions as banning Muslim Immigration and prohibiting the construction of new mosques and the banning of polygamy and other ways to defeat the terrorist army that is infiltrating that the apparent Muslims friendship will disappear and the true nature of the Muslims presence will be felt...and always ...violently.
The next time you see Muslims in your town carrying signs saying "death to (fill in the blank)" or carrying Islamic banners or wearing the headbands and flags of the various Islamic terrorts group or shouting pro Muslim slogans and repeated shouts of "Allah Akbarr"....you will know the enemy has arrived..
Posted by: pulsar182 at November 28, 2008 8:34 AM
Zena:
I would never deny my God before any terrorist slime.
لن استسلم
ABS
Posted by: Drewbenstein at November 28, 2008 8:46 AM
Amen.
I would rather be a TRUE martyr than deny my God and call that satanic "allah" my Lord.
Posted by: CGW at November 28, 2008 8:54 AM
Over Thanksgiving dinner I found myself debating the same misconceptions about Islam. Wow! The stuff I heard was disheartening, but there was one who did say that Islamic Jihad follow the precepts of allah to kill all non Muslims. While some believed that the Imams where brain washing and misinterpreting the Koran and there is nothing in the Koran that condones these acts. Of course my response was to the contrary. With all these lies and deception I would wonder that the world and those who want to protect their citizens are entitled to the truth. Seeing that MSM is not giving factual information, not using Islamic to describes the terrorist and as pointed out by Spencer the sources of these acts are not mentioned, such as the Koran, it is a disservice and ultimately they the Media will be responsible for more deaths on non Muslims.
It is incumbent upon all free peoples to go out and study and find the truth, the thing is with Islam ignorance is not bliss but your own undoing. Islamic Jihadis are willing and prepared to kill non Muslims no matter what.
Posted by: savsiv at November 28, 2008 9:23 AM
Well what will the American press state today? no connection with islam? or these men where poor British mislead youths?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1089711/Massacre-Mumbai-BRITISH-gunmen-seized-commando-raid-death-toll-hits-140.html
"British-born Pakistanis among arrested militants"
"These are the Pakistan-based Lashkar-i-Taibar (Soldiers of the Pure) and a northern Indian Islamist group called Students Islamic Movement of India which has members from Bangladesh and Pakistan. Both of these organisations - which are banned in the U.S. and the UK but receive money via 'charities' from UKbased Pakistani businessmen - have links to Al Qaeda. "
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1090096/ANALYSIS-The-fanatics-Mumbai-bombings-like-trigger-nuclear-war.html
at November 28, 2008 9:25 AM
ABS, did not Paul deny Jesus and look what he achieved later on. General Patton onces said about winning wars, its the number of enemies you kill in so many words.
Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at November 28, 2008 9:25 AM
Zena:
Point made and understood.
Yes Peter did deny Christ 3 times. But I am in no way as devout or righteous as he. If anyone is serious about professing being a Muslim to a jihadi in an attempt to live to fight another day, I suggest they learn this phrase: "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him) is his prophet.", in Arabic so well that it rolls off of the tongue fluidly.
I would choke on those words.
I'm a fan of your posts, and please understand no disrespect was intended.
لن استسلم
ABS
Posted by: Drewbenstein at November 28, 2008 10:23 AM
The response to this is that it is impossible to defeat an enemy one does not understand.
Yes, but who is "the enemy?"
An enemy who wants to kill you; says that he is going to kill; plans the killing; stalks you in preparation is impossible to defeat when you refuse to admit that he is your enemy and deny that he means what he says.
Anyway, the murderers could not have been muslims.
Why?
Because we say they were not muslims.
Forget what they themselves tell you or what the quaran dictates -- the mere fact that they self-identify with islam and follow what the quaran clearly states to do, is irrelevent.
The only thing that matters in the end, is our own delusions which we insist on superimposing on reality.
But reality and truth does have a way of biting you in the ....
Ouch!
Posted by: witness at November 28, 2008 10:46 AM
Drewbenstein, oops it was Peter, oh well l know you
understand my point, its better to fight another day than to die without cause. l am a great fan of General Patton, and we need more like him today!
at November 28, 2008 11:01 AM
We are not going to win this war declared upon us by these militants until such time as the mosques from which these militants originated from are in smouldering ashes! While all muslims are certainly not murderers or are hate mongering anti infidel muslims, the Bombay murdering muslims certainly are murdering muslims and originate from certain specific mosques which need to be summarily destroyed!
Posted by: David England at November 28, 2008 11:07 AM
If they release the turks 'cos they are muslims, then why do they arbitrarily kill muslims in market places in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere?
No logic. The logic is, they hate all mankind. Releasing the turks was a propaganda stunt.
at November 28, 2008 12:32 PM
islam fosters such a beautiful wondrous culture. If everything were reversed, and a Christian couple were released to the non-Christian crowd by the 'Christian' terrorists ..... say in Yemen, what do you think would have happened to them?
Posted by: CJK at November 28, 2008 12:56 PM
A local TV news station's website carried articles about the bombings. A comment thread yesterday was filled with comments such as, "Religion had nothing to do with this" and, "I'm not a Muslim and I've never commented on a website before but I feel compelled to say that Islam is a wonderful religion and this is just a few people who have distorted a great religion," etc.
I was glad that my comment was accepted: "To those who think this has nothing to do with religion: look up the meaning of Mujahideen".
It's a no-brainer but we've been trained to automatically go on the defensive for Islam. The Islamic PR machine is an effective one.
at November 28, 2008 12:57 PM
I read this piece on J. Post today: "Analysis: Terrorism has truly become war, and we need to rethink how we fight it
By DAVID ALTMAN
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1227702352531&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
I posted the following:
What about the states that provide sanctuary to these Muslim terror groups?
Lashker-e-Taiba, which is based, trains, etc., near Lahore, Pakistan, is believed to be responsible for these atrocities. Pakistan assures India they had nothing to do with this. News reports, Pakistan offers to send her highest ranking ISI (Pakistani Intelligence) officer to India in order to confer with India's intelligece.
We know Pakistan's ISI has been deeply committed to helping these Muslim terror groups -- ISI is filled with jihadist officers -- yet George W. Bush insists Pakistan is our ally in our war against "terrorism." Pakistan provides refuge to Al Qaeda. What happened to the so-called Bush doctrine. "We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and those who habour them..."
Posted by: Wild Jew at November 28, 2008 1:59 PM
I am an atheist Hindu (and yes, my religion allows me to deny the god) living in India. It's has been a shame that most of our own media and politicians can not use that magic word - Islamic terrorists. There is a deafening silence and ignorance amongst general public about the real face of Islam. I have always been against Hindu revenge attacks against Muslims, but now feeling that it is justified. When the government is as incompetent as this one and you know for sure that those perverts will go unpunished, the only options left is to take law into your own hands. I am sure ISI agents of Pakistan, Dawood Ibrahim in Karachi must be enjoying toast of celebration now. And I also know that they will go unpunished for ever, unless some rich people in Taj get killed. Remember that this is not unprecedented, there have been bigger attacks on India in the past. Just a year ago, 250 people got killed in Mumbai subway blasts. There have been numerous blasts in Bangalore, Ahmedabad, Varanasi, Hyderabad and other places this year alone. It's hitting headlines now because of the profiles of the people involved.
I think its time we admit that we are not competent enough to stop Islamists and take the help of America and Israel. The day is not too far to witness a muslim majority India (projected to be one by 2050) and it will be disaster for the whole world if no one stops it.
To hell with those 6th century barbarians who created this death cult.
Posted by: Indian_Dhimmi at November 28, 2008 2:07 PM
The following is considered a part of the "Bush Doctrine."
"We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest. And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. (Applause.) From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime....."
Clearly Pakistan -- like the Palestinian Authority -- provides aid and safe haven to terrorism. What happened to the Bush Doctrine?
at November 28, 2008 2:07 PM
Indian_Dhimmi, I was speaking to a neighbor this morning about this. I pointed to the fact, the mainstream media was reluctant to use the "I" or the "M" word; Islam or Muslim. This is what he thought to be the case. India does not want to anger the masses. I thought he was referring to the Muslim masses. No. He was referring to revenge attacks. Did not George W. Bush do the same thing right after the 911 atrocities? Didn't he assure us Islam is peace and this has nothing to do with our many Muslim friends?
Posted by: Wild Jew at November 28, 2008 2:18 PM
Wild Jew, you made the right observation. Usage of "I" and "M" are prohibited.
But this whole notion of widespread revenge attacks by Hindus on Muslims is false. Only time it has happened is when Islamic terrorists burnt a train full of Hindu devotees (52 men, women and children) alive in Gujarat. And you have to understand the reason for attacks here. People who lost their family/friends know for sure that Islamists will go unpunished. Dawood Ibrahim is doing more than well in Karachi after 15 years, after killing 700 people in Mumbai in 1991. So are hundreds of other terrorists including 3 terrorists (2 of which were involved in 9/11) who were released in Kandahar plane hijack. Contrast it with US and Israel who have the guts to go after every terrorist that attack them. So its the frustration which is coming out, though one can not support it and general Hindu public strongly condemned it.
Posted by: Indian_Dhimmi at November 28, 2008 2:39 PM
Indian_Dhimmi, you might not like my point of view on this matter. I believe every Indian Muslim should be suspect. Why are they still living in India? Isn't this why Pakistan was established? As a Muslim state? Why is the government of India protecting these Muslims? Why haven't they been deported? They -- most of them -- are enemies within. I cannot say I am opposed to revenge attacks in principle, "if" the government will not execute its proper function; that is protecting the non-Muslim citizens of India from Muslim attacks.
In my view, Pakistan should be declared a state sponsor of terrorism and and enemy state. US should go deep into Pakistan and hunt down these jihadist savages. Pakistan has no say in the matter. Pakistan is well-known to be a state sponsor of terrorism like Iran, Sudan and Saudi Arabia. These are all enemy states.
Posted by: Wild Jew at November 28, 2008 3:35 PM
Anyone see CNN this morning when they had on the man from Vancouver, Canada. He escaped early into the siege. When asked by the anchor who the gunmen were targeting (I know, stupid question) the man said " MAKE NO MISTAKE....THEY WERE TARGETING WESTERNERS, IF YOU WERE 80 or 8 MONTHS OLD THEY DIDN'T CARE." Good for him, say it loud, let the world get it.
Posted by: gymgal at November 28, 2008 4:11 PM
Wild Jew, may be you are right. But I think it's too late now to deport 200 million of them, late by at least 50 years. There is nothing one can do other than moving out of country before it becomes a Muslim majority country.
Soft stance of India, generally Hindus, is not new. You will be surprised at the ruthless atrocities of Muslims if you read Islamic invasion history of India (sadly we don't have a Robert Spencer). There have been close to a hundred blasts so far THIS YEAR ALONE in India and govt has done nothing. I do not expect Indian govt to go after Pakistan this time either.
Posted by: Indian_Dhimmi at November 28, 2008 4:14 PM
Indian_Dhimmi, We must not say it is too late or we can't deport 200 million Muslims. Granted, it is a very significant number but there are over one billion non-Muslims in India?
This is what I tell my fellow Jews who say, "We cannot possibly uproot all these Palestinian Muslims from our land. We must provide them a state of their own in our land." I cannot accept this proposition. We can uproot these Muslim enemies from our lands but first there has to be the will and the desire.
One day these people will go too far and there will be a mass-slaughter of Muslims by non-Muslims. Few want to see this but how much can the non-Muslim world take?
at November 28, 2008 5:15 PM
Hey indian dhimmi and wild jew.
You guys accuse the islamists of fanaticism, but you are no better. You want to transfer the palestinians and the indian muslims from their homelands? My suggestion: Why don't we start with the US and get the whole crowd out and send them to their respective continents?
at November 28, 2008 5:27 PM
kimahm, why don't you start by leaving first.
Posted by: CJK at November 28, 2008 5:33 PM
kimahm, don't confuse me with Indian_Dhimmi. I am the one who is recommending forcible transfer; not Indian_Dhimmi. Please direct your remarks to me.
I am not accusing "Islamists" of fanaticism. I am accusing Islam of fanaticism. Like Nazism and other savage ideology, fanatics deserve no pity or mercy.
Posted by: Wild Jew at November 28, 2008 5:47 PM
kimahm, if you can suggest me one another way of living peacefully with Muslims other than converting to Islam, please let me know. I am all for it. I do not want to force a single Muslim out if they just let me live my life the way I want and not force other 1 billion people like me to live by 6th century barbaric laws.
If you know the Indian history a bit, you will know that we let Muslims stay in India during the partition, when Pakistan drove all Hindus out of there. Mahatma Gandhi went on a 30 days fasting to stop Hindus attacking Muslims in India when train load of Hindu corpses were being sent from Lahore to Delhi. India has practiced non violence, demonstrated maturity and tremendous patience which no other civilization that I know of has shown. But now we have come to know that none of it works and non violence is a failed ideology. The only way to survive is to be as ruthless as your enemy.
Posted by: Indian_Dhimmi at November 28, 2008 6:14 PM
"No freedom to the enemies of freedom"
it's time to fight terror with terror and to be as ruthless as they are
at November 28, 2008 6:24 PM
I would be lying if I said that I didn't want to see anti-Muslim pogroms in India. Like, today, now. It's not justified worldwide, but it is in India and it is in Israel. Israel, however, is held to a double standard whereby if they don't behave impeccably, and even if they do, they'll be persecuted by the rest of the world. India has the luxury of being let off the hook somewhat by the international community, and anyone who isn't willing to cut them that slack should be enlightened through the first-time cracking of a history book. Just be sure to have Al Sharpton incite the pogroms so that nobody gets arrested.
Wild Jew, as to the "Palestinians," you're right. The only solution is to push them into Jordan and maybe Egypt. Neither they, Egypt, or Jordan should hae any choice in the matter. If they protest, send them to Kuwait, where they will be dealt with properly and so that everyone can see the humanity of the Arab world. They are the Arab world's sacrificial lambs (or really, vipers) anyway. Let them take care of them. Let them absorb them. If they're not willing to do so, take back Gaza and the Sinai and kick all the "Palestinians" out of there too.
I'm sick of PC, the exploitation of human rights ideals on behalf of people who seek to deprive everyone else of their human rights to the maximum extent that they can, and the (when it comes to Arabs, downright racist) double standard whereby Muslims are held to no standards - be they moral, ethical, or legal (and in academia, academic or intellectual) - while the rest of the world is decried whenever they defend themselves. Nobody should tolerate violence, sedition, or any aspect of political Islam. Period. Why do I feel this way? Because of what Muslims are doing to this world.
Posted by: jdamn at November 28, 2008 10:54 PM
Indian_Dhimmi you dont really have to deport muslims , you just need to take down their mosques, have the laws declare islam enemy of the state and banned. those pious muslims will eventually leave, others will convert to what ever. those islamists who attack you take down and jail and or deport.
Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at November 28, 2008 11:16 PM
This is straight out of Qur'an Surah 48: 29 -
"Muhammad is Allah's Apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another” (Dawood translation).
Or, in Yusuf Ali's translation: 'Those who are with him (Mohammed) are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other'.
I understand that the word rendered 'ruthless' or 'strong' can also be translated something like 'harsh' or 'cruel'.
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at November 29, 2008 2:33 AM
Hindus brought down one of the unused Mosques, which was formerly a temple, in 1991 because it was believed to be the birth place of Ram. We had to pay 250 lives for that in Mumbai blasts of 1992 in "revenge attacks". You want all mosques to be brought down? You probable won't find a single Hindu after that.
Posted by: Indian_Dhimmi at November 29, 2008 3:59 AM
Indian_Dhimmi , you need to arm your citizens to be able to defend themselves. one mosque at a time. otherwise your elites will continue to disdain your people.
Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at November 29, 2008 7:51 AM
Indian Dhimmi, you should not get carried away with this jewish zealots. They are no better than the other terrorists, for what they do in occupied Plaestine. You belong to an old religion of the east , like Buddhism, where tolerance was always held high. But even among Hindus there are terrorists. They are not the result of islamist terrorism, 'cos they murdered Gandhi in 1948 (There was no islamist terrorism at that time. This is a phenomenon since about 20 years 'cos it is political. Islam is there since 1400 years. I know indian and world history quite well. Indian Islam was the most tolerant of all in muslim ruled countries. If the muslims ruled with an iron hand, they would have converted all the indians within their 1000 year rule, but thats not the case. In the subcontinent Hindus still are over 60% of the population. Which country would allow a minority man to be the commander of the army? Raja Man Singh was under Moghul rule.
Posted by: kimahm at November 29, 2008 4:54 PM
Wow kimahm, So Jews are terrorists, Hindus are terrorists, Christians are terrorists. Everyone except Muslims are terrorists in your view.
For your information on Indian history, Muslim terrorism in India did not start in 1989, it started with the coming of Ghazni Mahmud in 11th century. Following a invasion of many others like him. If you are a Muslim from Indian subcontinent (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh or Afghanistan), you should know that your own ancestors at some point in time since 11th century were killed or/and subjugated or/and converted forcibly to Islam. And today of majority of India are Hindus (which it is not, if you take the actual India, which consisted of today's India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan), that's not because Muslim rulers let them be so. Do you know about Dhimmis? If not, perhaps you should listen to Mr. Spencer when you have sometime.
I have no interest in teaching you Indian history because I know you are not interested in it. There are majority of Hindus, including me, are taught from their childhood to love, forgive Muslims. This is a Nehruvian way of childhood indoctrination. We need to hate people who hate us or atleast recognize those people, their theology and history.
One thing that is clear is that what likes of 'Wild Jew' are saying is correct and probably we need to adopt Israel way of dealing with Muslims. I can contrast 2 nations, India and Israel, with same enemies and different approach to deal with them. It is more than clear now, Israel way has worked and Indian way has not.
Posted by: Indian_Dhimmi at November 30, 2008 2:26 AM
You guys are bigots. I thought i would come across some intelligent people on this site.
But i was wrong.
Anyway carry on - your voices are voices in the wilderness.
Better luck in next life.
BYE BYE
at November 30, 2008 2:55 PM
Good to see you getting lost. There is no difference between those terrorists and apologists like you.
"Better luck in next life." - Are you planning to join LET/Al-queda for making this statement true? Bye and hope to never see you in real life.
Posted by: Indian_Dhimmi at November 30, 2008 5:54 PM
(Note: The Comments section is provided in the interests of free speech only. It is mostly unmoderated, but comments that are off-topic, offensive, slanderous, or otherwise annoying stand a chance of being deleted. The fact that any comment remains on the site IN NO WAY constitutes an endorsement by Jihad Watch or Dhimmi Watch, or by Robert Spencer or any other Jihad Watch or Dhimmi Watch writer, of any view expressed, fact alleged, or link provided in that comment.)