This has nothing to do with religion, right? I mean there aren't any centuries old manuscripts that encourage this type of talk, is there?

Posted by: CJK at November 28, 2008 3:40 PM

And all across America, shocked Muslims pour into the streets with signs denouncing this truly sickening violence in the name of their Religion of Peace.

Posted by: poetcomic1 at November 28, 2008 3:49 PM

"And all across America, shocked Muslims pour into the streets with signs denouncing this truly sickening violence in the name of their Religion of Peace."

Uhm, they're kinda busy blogging about hijabi-only hair salons, "naked" Western women causing Muslim lesbianism, and "the misogyny inherent in sexualized Western pop culture and its connections to violence against women in Pakistan."

They'll get back to you real soon about that Allahu-Akbar 72-virgin guns and bombs . . . thing.

Posted by: Marwan'sDaughter at November 28, 2008 4:19 PM

"And all across America, shocked Muslims pour into the streets with signs denouncing this truly sickening violence in the name of their Religion of Peace."

Posted by: poetcomic1

Get ready for another round of: we denounce the taking of all innocent lives.

Posted by: KrazyKafir at November 28, 2008 4:22 PM

Misunderstanders my arse -- these are the truly devout Muslims following after the king of mass murder himself, Muhammad.

Posted by: champ at November 28, 2008 4:24 PM

Christians around the globe are praying for Hindus. Christianity has built thousands of hospitals and schools for Hindus. Its how we spread our religion.

Islam spreads through violence and intimidation.

Posted by: James Martel at November 28, 2008 4:56 PM

champ, I totally agree. The "misunderstanders" are the truly moderate Muslims that don't go out killing everyone that isn't Muslim. There is no misunderstanding within the devout.

Posted by: gymgal at November 28, 2008 5:00 PM

I don't understand how these attacks are being portrayed in the mass media as a reaction to Hindu "persecution" of Muslims. Why would they target Americans, Britons, Israelis and primarily tourists in a hotel in a tourist district if it was about Hindus!!?

As for "destroy the Hindus", I'd say 'dream on'..

Posted by: Arjun08 at November 28, 2008 5:37 PM

Some reports now claim upto seven British Pakis involved and maybe from Leeds and Bradford the home of the 7/7 bombers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1089711/Massacre-Mumbai-Up-SEVEN-gunmen-British-came-area-7-7-bombers.html

Posted by: km at November 28, 2008 5:39 PM

What will happen to the captured Brits? If tried in India, they will surely hang. If extradited to the UK, they will clog the prison system until some Home Secretary in the future reprieves them. Therefore I predict a lot of whining and moaning to send "the poor boys home".

Posted by: pravasi at November 28, 2008 5:56 PM

It seems to me the attack wasn't just on Westerners and Israelis.

In attacking a railway station and a hospital they were going after Indians surely?

Posted by: Silvester at November 28, 2008 6:10 PM

Typepad took 5 attempts this time!

Posted by: Silvester at November 28, 2008 6:11 PM

Almost 160 dead and over 400 injured and there are Muslims out there who are celebrating just as they did after 9-11. How can anyone with half a brain refer to this as a "religion of peace".

The note reader Dr.Peterson is one of the those outrageous apologists who has put his straw in that profound drink called "taqaiya with a twist of kitman". No one has ever said that all Muslims choose to participate in jihad however I suspect that there is a large group of Muslims (maybe 50 Pct) who our praising those who attack the infidels or anyone who is not Muslim . These are ongoing facts in the world of reality Professor Peterson that you fail to address.

Mumbai has become the financial capital of India and the center India's financial institutions which speaks to the international markets throughout the world. This makes it understandable as to why so much press is being directed here even though just two years ago there where over 180 killed on a train just outside of Mumbai. from a terorist attack.

Posted by: Mackie at November 28, 2008 6:12 PM

It's possible that this particular attack is on the scale of 9-11, the London tube bombings, Madrid, Beslan, Bali, &c., but then again, it might be forgotten in two weeks as more events pile up on top of it in this unending outrage of jihad progresses daily.

Indians might remember this event specifically as one of the worst, but they might not, given that jihadi attacks are of a weekly nature in India.

I'll ask again how people feel about the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, (RSS) the Hindu nationalist party populist group. India is as much a "front-line" nation as is Israel, which the RSS supports. However, the RSS is a nationalist party, meaning Hinduism is primary, essential to their political goals. If we support them, we support Hindu nationalism over all other things in India. They are the ones with the greatest hope of defeating Islam in India, from what I understand. What's it worth? Are we willing to support a group fighting Islam in India even if they have little liking for Christianity in a Hindu nation? It's an immediate question that won't go away even if we forget this most recent and particular Islamic attack.

Should we support nationalists?

Posted by: dag at November 28, 2008 6:15 PM

Should we support nationalists?

Yes!

Posted by: km at November 28, 2008 6:24 PM

Did you see the headline at Fox? "Who are they?
What do they want?" Yeah, who could they be? For
all we know they could be Jehovah's Witnesses.

Posted by: silent_rage at November 28, 2008 6:38 PM

Fox 'who are they?' THEY.....ARE.... MUSLIMS...
what do they want? TO TAKE OVER THE EFFING PLANET

Posted by: poetcomic1 at November 28, 2008 6:46 PM

It's no news that pIslam has declared war on Hinduism. That's been going on for a thousand years. Islam has managed to conquer Afghanistan, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Their agents are even living in India. Infact there are more muslims living in India than in Pakistan.

Islam has 1 goal and that is to convert the whole world to their demonic cult. They want to conquer India and rule over it, killing/enslaving and forcibly converting the Hindu population. They have done that in the past and if given the chance they will do it again.

It's time to give Islam a fitting reply in terms they can understand (blood for blood). Hopefully hindu brothers in India will awaken, get organised get armed and start taking the fight to the followers of that demonic cult. Brutal force is the only thing that muslims understand and fear.

Posted by: rammer at November 28, 2008 6:49 PM

Stupid Main Stream Media is still asking 'who is behind this massacre'???? It's the MUSLIMS you bloody Politically Correctness FOOLS.
I am realy fed up with the MSM like CNN and BBC, they have still not mentioned the words Muslim and Terrorist.

Posted by: rammer at November 28, 2008 6:54 PM

The reason we have the deniers and the apologists and the just plain stupid folk is that they cannot face the truth. The truth is we are at war with Jihad, we have always been at war with the Jihad and we will always will be at war with those who seek to take away our freedom and replace it with tyranny.

Posted by: tanstaafl at November 28, 2008 7:31 PM

The word THUG comes from a Hindu sect that murdered hundreds of people in the early 19th century and offered human sacrifices to the goddess Kali. The British army eventually exterminated them and they simply no longer exist.

This is a perfect example of what will become of Islam once the 5 billion non-Muslims in the world realizes that it is nothing more than a dangerous, bloodthirsty sect like the thuggees. A couple of hundred years after the demise of this pseudo-religion, the word 'muslim' may survive, like 'thug', as a term used to describe someone who is derangedly aggressive and violent.

Posted by: martyrmaker at November 28, 2008 7:47 PM

TANSTAFEL: "The reason we have the deniers and the apologists and the just plain stupid folk is that they cannot face the truth."

This was never more evident in the presentation of Dr Peterson in his debate with Robert.

The gist of his argument seemed to be:

'A quarter of the world's people are Muslim and they are not going away. Accepting the premise that Islam is innately irreconcilable with freedom is staggering in its implications. Therefore, I choose to believe that we can find common ground.'

Peterson is right about the staggering implications. But he'd rather pretend there isn't a problem than face them.

And so goes the majority.

Posted by: Cornelius at November 28, 2008 7:59 PM

Cornelius - What did Churchill promise the people of England?

Blood, sweat and tears.

That is what the future holds, but we must not finch. This is our battle against the tyranny of Islam. We will triumph, but only if we are willing to pay the price.

Posted by: tanstaafl at November 28, 2008 8:34 PM

i didn't know where to put this , but ppl watch this

http://www.muhammadtube.com/video/2748/USC-Censors-Hadith

dhimmitude and cowardness from USC

Posted by: Péguy at November 28, 2008 9:02 PM

Well, they tried it for over 800 years and failed, didn't they?

The lives of Mohammedans in India ought to be made as miserable as that of those in Gujarat, so that they voluntarily leave on their own.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at November 29, 2008 12:32 AM

It's easy to answer yes to the question whether we should support Hindu nationalists.

Until I find concrete evidence that the RSS is not in support of, or even committing violence against Christians, I'm stuck with believing they do so. I understand that the RSS want a completely Hindu nation in India, which means riding the nation of Muslims, Sikhs, AND Christians. Hindus are not Buddhists, not pacifist meditators. The RSS form mobs of violent crazies who kill at random. That's not exclusive to the RSS membership, it's a part of Humanness. Some social, political, or religious systems harness the inherent violence of people better than others. Many would be sympathetic toward the Western Judeo-Christian tradition of conflict resolution, i.e. talking rationally and resorting to positive law and common law in impartial courts, and so on. We don't live in a perfect world, and much of it isn't even as good as our own imperfect West. Some people, and many systems, are outright bad, allowing for the easy formation of violent mobs and unrestrained violence. Indian conditions allow for the rise of the RSS. That's the ground of politics there. We might well not like it, but it is what it is. India's social system and politics will not change due to our contributions either way. The RSS will continue to be nationalist, and the nation will continue its culture. It might well be bad for Christians.

It is conceivable that even though the RSS is anti-Christian, Christians could benefit from Christian assistance from abroad in the struggle for Hindu nationalism. We'd be looking at some variation, I suspect, of Christian dhimmitude in Hindu nationalist India. It's a matter of half a loaf at this point. Unlike Islam, Sindhu is not our natural enemy. Can we live with it? Should we support it?

The BJP has run India's national government. The RSS is the populist movement of the BJP. It's not an unknown quality. If we remember this Bombay incident next week and still take an interest in it then, we might wonder if we should act concretely to assist the resistance to jihad through supporting the RSS in concrete ways.

I'm interested in knowing what others have to contribute to this. I don't know nearly enough, so I ask.

Posted by: dag at November 29, 2008 1:01 AM

dag,

I once attended a few events by HSS (as RSS is known in UK). RSS/HSS is basically a bunch of brahmins obsessed with disproving Indo-Aryan invasion theory and hysterically moaning over western decadence creeping oer India. Well Hindu nationalists are a strange breed. While their social agenda is abhorent, they are capitalists and anti-Islamists. BJP is the political movement that has its origins in RSS but of late two organisations have distanced from each other. BJP's national spokesperson is infact a Muslim.

Until I find concrete evidence that the RSS is not in support of, or even committing violence against Christians

Well RSS itself doesnt explicitly commit acts of violence. It is head of body of organisations called Sangh Parivar whose members Shiv Sena and Bajrang Dal are notorious for mob violence, while Shiv Sena targets Muslims, Bajrang Dal is all about "keeping tabs" on missionary activity.

I understand that the RSS want a completely Hindu nation in India, which means riding the nation of Muslims, Sikhs, AND Christians.

No. By RSS definition anyone who accepts Indianness as a primary identity is a Hindu/Indian. So by their definition Muslims who swear primary loyalty to Indian republic are "Hindus" as well. As for Sikhs, actually RSS is allied with Sikh parties, their definition of Hindu encompanses Sikhism as well, which they consider to be a sect of Sikhism. They dont want to rid India of Christians, they are against missionary activity though which they argue targets poor Hindus and tribals and contribute to deculturising them and contributing to social tension amongst people. Like the recent violence in orissa was mostly caste based violence rather than religious violence where members of two lower caste groups fought, because one group apparently became rich on missionary dollars!

Hindutva my friend is a spent force. For long they projected as if they fought the establishment but once they came to power they became a part of the establishment itself. Hindutva has stark contradictions, the same people who had capcities to ignite irrational orgies of violence against Muslims, have pandered to them once in power!

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at November 29, 2008 1:32 AM

BJP's national spokesperson is infact a Muslim.

Hindutva my friend is a spent force. For long they projected as if they fought the establishment but once they came to power they became a part of the establishment itself. Hindutva has stark contradictions, the same people who had capcities to ignite irrational orgies of violence against Muslims, have pandered to them once in power!

However, we both know that that isn't what happened. The BJP was forced to take as allies in the NDA government anti-Congress parties who were nonetheless dhimmi, and who hadn't written off Mohammedan support. Like the TDP in Andhra Pradesh, Trinamul in Left Bengal, National Conference in Kashmir, et al. So to get their support, they had to commit to a 'minimum common program' which meant losing its demand for the Ayodhya temple, retreating on Article 370 in Kashmir which gives the state its own constitution which no other state has, and so on.

Despite that, they managed to keep a cork on terrorism with the TADA law, which uncompromisingly took on the Jihadis. Sure, the BJP had its moments of disgrace, like when Jaswant Singh personally escorted Jihadis to Kandahar to get a hijacked Indian Airlines plane freed.

Within the BJP, there is a war of attrition between Hindutva groups and more compromising parts of the party. Problem is that the Hindutva faction is not pro-capitalist, and the Capitalist leaning faction are not anti-Islamic enough. In some BJP ruled states that have elections today, there has been a sidelining of Hindutva groups. When Pramod Mahajan was alive, there were hopes that he'd be a future Prime Ministerial candidate who'd unite those 2 factions. Since his death, that mantle has been vacant, and only recently with the victory of Modi in the Gujarat elections has the BJP looked like having a future.

If the idea is to establish the party's bona-fides as a capitalist party, well & good. But the powers that be in the BJP need to recognize that they aren't going to get Mohammedan support, and will always be writing off 15% of the population.

The main problem, as I see it, is not that Hindutva is a spent force, but that they've de-focussed, be it the Bajrang Dal obsessing over missionary activity. Problematic as it is, it doesn't come close to the threat of Jihad. Similarly for the MNS obsessing over whether North Indians in Mumbai speak Marathi instead of Hindi. Hindi speakers aren't a threat to Maratha Hindus. Mohammedans are, and the sooner Raj Thackeray recognizes that, the better.

Also, for the next election, I don't see Advani coming to power. However, whenever the BJP pitches Modi as their PM candidate, he's likely to win support because of the success he's had in Gujarat.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at November 29, 2008 2:45 AM

That's great. Thanks to you both for furthering my understanding of this situation and the parties involved. Now, where do we go from here? Who is really our bet concrete hope of making inroads into a successful struggle against our common enemies, Islam? One must assume there are at least factions within some groups who would be beneficial to us to work with.

There is a large Hindu population in the city I live in, and I'm quite happy to contact anyone here who is willing to work against Islam, so long a they ar also willing to work for something that's not against the interests of our nation/s. I would think it is so in many places that Hindus want what we want generally: an end to jihad. So long as the advantages of co-operation outweigh the disadvantages, I'm happy to work with nearly anyone.

Thanks again to you both for the input.

Posted by: dag at November 29, 2008 9:11 AM

Hindutva isn't a spent force.
Every time the muslims attack and bomb, more and more Hindus start awakening and start realising that the pseudo-secular propaganda has been a bunch of nonsense.
The Sangh Parivar comtinues to attract new followers every day so it's very much alive and kicking (despite propaganda meant to malign them and efforts to ban them).

Actually Hinduism's only hope to survive is Hindutva. What Zionism was to the Jews, Hindutva will be to the Hindus.

Posted by: rammer at November 29, 2008 12:18 PM

This story holds my interest. If you have a similar interest, and seeing that this piece is getting buried already, please let me know more at the link below from a post written by my friend and colleague Charles.

http://covenantzone.blogspot.com/2008/11/mumbai-terrorists-attack-hospital.html

Posted by: dag at November 29, 2008 1:28 PM

http://counterknowledge.com/?p=1013

Church of Scientology waiting to pounce in Mumbai, India

As events unfold in Mumbai, India, there are already murmurings among
Scientology front groups about how best to take advantage of the tragedy.

The Way To Happiness, a booklet written by Scientology founder L. Ron
Hubbard, has the honour of an organisation (the innocuous-sounding
Association for Better Living and Education) dedicated solely to its
distribution. The British branch of ABLE just sent out an email to
members, asking for money to print copies of The Way To Happiness to be
sent to Mumbai. Thanks to an ex-Scientologist, we have acquired the
leaked email.

This is not the first time that Scientology front groups have taken
advantage of tragic events: after the September 11 attacks in New York
City in 2001, a group called the “Volunteer Ministers” appeared at
Ground Zero along with other “charitable” organisations. But the
Volunteer Ministers were sent solely to keep people away from trained
mental health professionals, and to use their own form of mental therapy
- dianetics - to console the bereaved. The same thing occurred after the
Beslan massacre in Russia in 2004, in London on July 7, and in
Blacksburg, Virginia after the mass shooting at Virginia Technical
Institute. And now, while the gunfire and explosions continue in Mumbai,
Scientology is wasting no time in spreading the word.

Posted by: Larry at November 29, 2008 7:33 PM

"And all across America, shocked Muslims pour into the streets with signs denouncing this truly sickening violence in the name of their Religion of Peace."

Posted by: poetcomic1

Get ready for another round of: we denounce the taking of all innocent lives.
Posted by: KrazyKafir

You both missed the 'coup de grace'. Wait for the Muslim Groups and Associations not forgetting Heads of State to say : These people are not true Muslims!

Posted by: Richard the Lionheart at November 29, 2008 7:43 PM

That's all very well and fine. If you have some interest in India and the RSS, please let me know so we can discuss this further.

Posted by: dag at November 29, 2008 7:57 PM

When did Muslims denouce the violence in Mumbai? Granted, I've been too disgusted with the news to get it from anywhere but the blogosphere and FOX News, and I'm irritated with FOX News over Alan Colmes generally, Hannity's plagiarism, Obama pandering generally, Greta Van Susteren's love affair with Palin, the fact that O'Reilly is only on half the time, the fact that they kept Geraldo but nixed Michele Malkin, their nixing of Laura Ingaram, Lamont Hill, etc., etc., but I have not heard of this anywhere else. Can you point to a news story? Or was it a party that Irshad Manji threw for herself, or what?

Posted by: jdamn at November 29, 2008 8:13 PM

And where in the HELL where all the muzzies with signs durring 9-11!?!

Yeah they are all f-up and twisted I have seen enough of the sick religion of THUGS!

Posted by: dcat at November 30, 2008 2:24 PM