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Choudary believes no non-Muslim is innocent
"The subject peoples," [i.e., the dhimmis] according to a manual of Islamic law endorsed by Al-Azhar University in Cairo, must "pay the non-Muslim poll tax (jizya)" and "are distinguished from Muslims in dress..." ('Umdat al-Salik, o11.3).
"Terror Cops Fear 'Mumbai Attack' In UK," by Tom Savage and Josh Layton for the UK Daily Star tabloid, December 2 (thanks to all who sent this in):
RANTING Anjem Choudary launched an astonishing anti-British tirade as terror experts warned yesterday of a Mumbai-style massacre in Britain.The hate preacher called for apartheid in the UK just days after backing the killers in India. And his supporters threatened to unleash “blood on the streets”. [...]
Choudary, 41, spoke at a packed public meeting called “Not So Great Britain”.
It was held at a council-owned arts centre in Southall, Middlesex, by Islam4UK.com – a website he founded with banned hate preacher Omar Bakri Mohammad.
Filthy
He branded Britain “filthy”, accused children of being “prostitutes” and demanded non-Muslims wear signs like the Nazis forced on the Jews in WWII.
Crazed Choudary said: “In Britain there are 230 rapes every day, that’s 10 per hour. Supermarkets are selling poles for little children so they can become prostitutes when they grow up. There’s no comparison between our way of life and theirs.
“In an Islamic state, non-Muslims will have to wear a sign to show what they are – it should say Kaffir. We won’t discriminate on height, race or appearance but we will discriminate on faith.” Earlier, Bakri spoke via videophone from Lebanon.
Meanwhile, one of Choudary’s henchmen at Islam4UK, which has close links to banned group al-Muhajiroun, warned: “You will know when the Muslims have ignited an insurrection when there is blood on the streets of London and New York like there is blood on the streets of Fallujah and Mumbai.”...
Posted by Robert at December 2, 2008 2:46 PM
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"He branded Britain “filthy”, accused children of being “prostitutes” and demanded non-Muslims wear signs like the Nazis forced on the Jews in WWII."
Actually an idea that the Nazis borrowed from Islam. See the "Oath of Omar".
Sigh. We would tolerate a Nazi saying this. Why should we tolerate it from anyone else?
Posted by: tanstaafl![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/nav-commenters.gif)
at December 2, 2008 3:06 PM
Sorry - meant to say "we WOULD'NT tolerate a Nazi
Posted by: tanstaafl at December 2, 2008 3:09 PM
Comments like this: “In an Islamic state, non-Muslims will have to wear a sign to show what they are – it should say Kaffir. We won’t discriminate on height, race or appearance but we will discriminate on faith.”
this: “You will know when the Muslims have ignited an insurrection when there is blood on the streets of London and New York like there is blood on the streets of Fallujah and Mumbai.”.
And This: "And his supporters threatened to unleash 'blood on the streets'"
Make it incresingly difficult to not draw comparisons to the Nazis. I mean, could it be any clearer? It's so insanely similar to those actions, I have to wonder if the world's gone mad to not be able to recognize the common thread!
This man is making statements as if he was the diety that he worships. This is dangerous dialogue, and upon reading the whole article, my throat sank into my stomach.
Posted by: Heidi J at December 2, 2008 3:10 PM
perhaps world hadn't noticed that under taliban, hindus and sikhs were forced to wear orange armbands...
Posted by: Proud of being takfir at December 2, 2008 3:11 PM
One thing you can say about Choudary is that he is transparent. What you see is what you get. Unlike slippery customers like Tariq Ramadan, he does not practise taquiya. He is an unabashed barbarian and any decent civilised upholder of goodness would know what to do with him.
Posted by: johndoe at December 2, 2008 3:11 PM
"Crazed Choudary said: “In Britain there are 230 rapes every day, that’s 10 per hour."
I wonder if he could tell us how many of the rapists are muslims?
Posted by: Fred at December 2, 2008 3:19 PM
I'm delighted that this monster said what he said. His candor is a refreshing change from what we've become accustomed to hearing from President Bush and other prominent politicians. Unless the nice, neighborly Muslims of the UK immediately and loudly repudiate Choudary's words, insisting that he's hijacked their peaceful religion, he'll have helped us spread the truth about Islam. Go Choudary!
Posted by: Aileen at December 2, 2008 3:19 PM
BTW, isn't he uphold as a moderate leading figure before getting exposed ?
Posted by: Proud of being takfir at December 2, 2008 3:27 PM
"Crazed Choudary said: “In Britain there are 230 rapes every day, that’s 10 per hour."
I wonder if he could tell us how many of the rapists are muslims?
None of them, Fred...there aren't 4 witnesses to support such a claim. It's the victim's fault for being.
at December 2, 2008 3:36 PM
This poor excuse for a human being conveys accurately what Islam intends for all non-believers. Any so-called moderate Muslims out there who wish to dispute this with specific evidence from the Sharia-based legal system? And if a Muslim is going to reject Sharia law, specifically how can this be done without 1)violating Islam as a whole and 2) not putting your own self in danger from fellow Muslims who can't get enough Sharia?
Posted by: Wellington at December 2, 2008 3:56 PM
Rape in Islam is allowed if the woman is kuffar, hence why rapes have increased by Muslims in Europe, most notably Sweden amongst many places.
Britain has itself to blame for its sorry, sad, state of affairs. They have allowed Islam to grow. They have voted in NuLabour who have allowed Islam to grow.
Just to make a point: It's ok for the BBC to interview Choudary(not the first time, they've done it before on Newsnight) on hard talk, a person who wants to see the Islamisation of the UK and destruction of our culture as well as death of Britons, yet it's against the BBC's policy to allow a member of the BNP that wants to uphold British culture and heritage.
Before you all start shouting racist, bigot, fascist or Nazi, think about what I'm saying; THEY WILL ALLOW THOSE WHO WANT TO DESTROY BRITAIN AIRTIME AND YET THOSE WHO WANT TO PROTECT IT NONE.
Think about that for a moment. I have never supported the BNP or voted for them but why on earth do they allow this man a voice? Why on earth is this man not being arrested for treason and better still INCITEMENT TO RELIGIOUS HATRED?
I'll tell you why and it's really easy to understand. The British government has made countless deals with Islam. It is selling the UK to Islam. It is protecting Islam. The Incitement to Religious Hatred Bill(2005) was brought in to end all discussion on Islam and they further destroyed the Christian faith by removing the Blasphemy laws earlier this year. They are taking money from the Saudis, instituting Sharia Law and Finance and getting ready to completely allow the Islamisation of the UK. I really wouldn't be surprised that Islam has also got something to do with the destruction of our Pub and Pork Industries too.
This man has openly preached of the death of British citizens, yet he has not been arrested, charged or jailed and worse still continues to appear on Terrestrial TV here in the UK, while parties and organisations that promote Britain and British culture are persecuted. Choudary was the former leader of Hizb ut Tahrir in the UK. He is a terrorist, nothing less.
He should be hanging from a lampost, not spouting his vile diatribe on British Television.
It shows how low the UK has sunk in its continuous appeasement and pandering to Islam.
I'm beginning to feel ashamed of being British and beginning to see that our Government is sticking two fingers up at all those who died to make our land free. They are disgusting, weak individuals.
Posted by: Richard the Lionheart at December 2, 2008 4:00 PM
The more they vomit this insanity, the more people wake up.
This makes me want to heave....
Posted by: gymgal at December 2, 2008 4:03 PM
In Sarajevo kindergartens they introduced "Islamic studies" and banned New Year celebration with Santa Claus and presents...
B92.net (In Serbian)
Posted by: LazarOfSerbia at December 2, 2008 4:05 PM
I am theorizing that we have heard phrophecy of this identification already.....
We will take the mark of man, and the mark will be on the hand or forehead. Those that don't take the mark will not be able to barter, trade, or travel. Those that don't take the mark will be chastized, beaten, and killed by authorities and citizens with no protections.
This 'mark' will be a requirement of a society that has but one world wide religion. Those that don't take the 'mark' will be sub-citizens.
at December 2, 2008 4:06 PM
This man is outright trying to motivate his ilk to violence. There is of course a very effective deterrent - it's called a bullet.
They lock this idiot up, take him out or suffer the consequences of an attack similar to Mumbai. Every Imam that preaches this violence has to be deterred in one way or another. They are the culprits in most of this violence from your Danish cartoons to naming a doll Muhammad to a lecture from the Pope.
The leftist socialist idiots currently running Britain need to release their heads from their backsides and deal with the situation. History tells us that pacifism is the bigger killer as ignorance allows the enemy to build strength.
Lest we forget.
at December 2, 2008 4:19 PM
Why has this man, if that's what you want to call him, why is he not dead? If some MF in the US was preaching this crap (in my neighborhood) I would have put a bullit in his head and anyone protecting him.
To all the "real" British people on this stie. It is time to rise up and take back your country. Do you now see why us US citizens are so against giving up our guns. Without them we would never be able to take our country back but with them we can. What is the old saying. "With guns we are citizens, without them we are subjects".
....Without them and the Muslims in control you are all dead............
Posted by: JustSayNoToIslam at December 2, 2008 4:29 PM
UK your glorious ancestors are crying in their graves
Posted by: Péguy at December 2, 2008 4:37 PM
Is it me or aren't these Islamists in the Uk getting bolder in their statements? It seems that the UK is so far down the road to dhimmitude they aren't even bothering to try to fool the Infidels anymore.
Posted by: Proud Infidel at December 2, 2008 4:47 PM
How revealing when Muslims talk like this. They are only shedding light on the beast system.
The re-emergence of the Islamic Caliphate is the beast of Revelation 13:1-3
"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."
This representations of this beast can only be fulfilled by the "Kingdoms" of the Islamic Caliphate.
The Islamic "mark" [badge] of servitude to Allah is the true meaning of Revelation 13:16-18. "666" is not even in the original Greek manuscript, it was Arabic script that confused the transcribers...which literally says "in the name of Allah" when read by someone who knows Arabic.
The Islamic Mahdi will seek to change all dates to the Islamic calender & laws to Sharia internationally in one campaign.
"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws"
Daniel 7:25
And the "most High" is obviously referring to the Hebrew Deity YHWH...which he will blasphemy, mock & rail against. And again perfectly fit for spiritual Islamic hatred of the Jews.
"And he will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women..."
Daniel 11:37
The "forefathers" of pre-Islamic domination were stepped heavily into polytheism, with hundreds of idols surrounding the ka'ba. Another perfect fit is showing no regard for the desire of women...you would be hard pressed to find a more vivid description of how Islam treats women in general, with their cold disregard of what women desire.
Revelation 20:4 makes a point of emphasis that the anti Christ and his followers behead those who refuse to follow him. Another revealing statement that points directly to Islamic fundamentalism. Not to mention all the parallels of this coming Mahdi spoke of from the Muslim perspective is the perfect negative image of the biblical Messiah who rescues the Jerusalem & Jews from his death grip....and all the kingdoms the Messiah wars against upon his return by ancient name are lands presently Islamic. Gee what a coincidence.[not]
Many people have said "how could the bible not say anything about the most wide spread, intolerant, Jew hating, Christian hating, violent movement this planet has ever known???".
My response? It does!!! Its just the full revelation of the prophecies were sealed unto the time of the end, and then in that time opened for the generations that literally see the forming of it before them. People who refuse to be ignorant of Islam know that it something so very evil about it...and I obviously believe that bible prophecy agrees with perfect clarity.
at December 2, 2008 5:13 PM
How anyone can actually listen to him is beyond me. It's a sign of mental illness that anyone would so much as put on shoes to go somewhere to listen to that monkey.
Rape in Islam is allowed if the woman is kuffar, hence why rapes have increased by Muslims in Europe, most notably Sweden amongst many places. - Richard the Lionheart
Rape in Islam is allowed if the 'woman' is a Muslim 1-day-old daughter. Rapes have increased in Sweden and all throughout Europe because they are here for war. It is warfare, plain and simple. How much longer until Europe stops tolerating this? Come on. Any day now.
Posted by: jdamn at December 2, 2008 5:16 PM
He bebbles about 230 rapes a day, how many are his pals raping infidel women?
Posted by: MorrisMinor at December 2, 2008 5:27 PM
the Muslims probably found several boxes of WWII yellow star patches that they had been giving to the Nazis in the 40's. The patches are in new , unused condition..
Posted by: pulsar182 at December 2, 2008 5:44 PM
Choudary personal mobile # from his islam4uk website: 07956 600569 (UK)
Omar Bakri personal # in Beirut : 00961 7095 7759
at December 2, 2008 5:54 PM
It was held at a council-owned arts centre in Southall, Middlesex
.......................
The “Not So Great Britain” meeting, calling for the violent overthrow of Britain and its brutal oppression to follow, was held at a *council-owned* center. We are literally facilitating our own destruction.
more:
The hate preacher called for apartheid in the UK just days after backing the killers in India. And his supporters threatened to unleash “blood on the streets”.
I guess Choudary didn't get the message that Mumbai was the work of "Hindu Zionists":
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/023748.php
more:
Supermarkets are selling poles for little children so they can become prostitutes when they grow up.
....
Wow! Britain really is more advanced than we are here in the states! Usually the only toys I can find at the local Safeway are cartoon character PEZ candy dispensers and Hotwheels cars.
Seriously, though, I agree with Proud Infidel, who wrote:
Is it me or aren't these Islamists in the Uk getting bolder in their statements? It seems that the UK is so far down the road to dhimmitude they aren't even bothering to try to fool the Infidels anymore.
................
How is this legal? Choudary goes way beyond anything that can reasonably be called freedom of speech--even of odious speech. He is openly calling for blood to run in the streets of London and New York.
Revering the concept of freedom of speech is not a suicide pact. He should be arrested and deported.
at December 2, 2008 6:04 PM
They make it clear to our faces that they fully intend to enslave/oppress us in our own land, then well up in emotion about how unfairly they are treated by their future prey. Sounds like a wolf complaining that the sheeps flesh was rough....I've heard this guy before and I almost have to doubt his islam after hearing him actually speak such truth to Kafirs. mo' would disapprove of such behavior, he really would but then again sata..er,allah knows best.
Posted by: CJK at December 2, 2008 6:39 PM
Choudary is a perfect spokesman for Islam and Allah...
By listening to his words we can learn the truth of Islam, and what Mohammadans mean by 'peace'...
Posted by: duh_swami at December 2, 2008 6:46 PM
To my American friends.
This website is being watched by British Secret Services and the Police to catch 'British Terrorists' angry at Islamisation.
If there are people on Gumtree, from the UK, who are angry with Islam and want some serious payback do you really think they're going to post on here or anyone for that matter?
The status quo has got so bad in the UK that Orwell's thought crime is already happening. Any British Citizen posting here knows that anything they write could be used in a court of law against them. They could be hauled up by their local police and instantly charged with hate crime and incitement to religious hatred. Ironically they would be charged under the 'terrorist act'. Therefore, for someone to say that they'd want to do "blah blah blah blah" to Anjem Choudary, Omar Bakri or Abu Qatada would be a very stupid thing to do. Not only would you be arrested by the Police, but your names made public(by our absolutely fantastic media) giving the Islamic terrorists a target when you came out, not forgetting information to find your family and loved ones with which to persecute(while you are inside).
The British people are not weak. We just have the very people, we pay our taxes to, in order to protect us, protecting the very people who want to harm us. Not only that but they are too eager to prosecute the majority in order to win Government Brownie points for following European Human Rights Legislation.
We in the UK are being oppressed greatly, many are now beginning to see this. Our mouths are zipped for fear of persecution as, yes America, they could come right around to my house tonight if they felt that I'd written something that could be looked upon as hate and religious hatred incitement.
It's all rather f*cked up. We are giving human rights to the very people who want to take it away and persecuting the very people who want to preserve it. Our government is calling Islamic Terrorists British citizens yet banning the name Islamic Terrorists. They are sending British troops to die in Afghanistan while allowing the Saudis to pump Britain full of Wahabism(the very strain of Islam we're fighting against in Afghanistan and Iraq).
What can we do other than all out revolution and Bloody civil war(f*ck here they come.....I can here them banging down my door as I type...I do hop typepad at least lets me get this off before I get arrested by Big Brother)
at December 2, 2008 6:57 PM
If there are people on Gumtree, from the UK, who are angry with Islam and want some serious payback do you really think they're going to post on here or anyone for that matter?
Correction.
I meant to say JihadWatch.
I was putting up an add to sell a computer(on Gumtree). Ooops!!
at December 2, 2008 7:01 PM
BBC!BBC! Richard the Lionheart is in room 527 and still alive!
I am frozen in fear with the full realization of what you have just conveyed, dear sir. I see the writing, ever so clear, upon the wall. Chilling.
Posted by: derak at December 2, 2008 7:58 PM
When a government is worsening a problem, the government becomes the problem.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen at December 2, 2008 8:01 PM
From Ace:
Damian Green, a conservative MP and Shadow Minister for Immigration, [was] seized by anti-terrorist personnel from the Metropolitan police, held for questioning for 9 hours, and whose private papers and computer files in his home and office in the House of Commons were confiscated. The Honorable Member’s offense? Embarrassing Gordon Brown’s government. How did he do this? By revealing in debate on the floor of the House of Commons and in various lapses, failures, and dirty-little-secrets about the government’s immigration policy, e.g.,............
Go. Read it all. Chilling indeed.
Posted by: derak at December 2, 2008 8:05 PM
"We in the UK are being oppressed greatly, many are now beginning to see this. Our mouths are zipped for fear of persecution as, yes America, they could come right around to my house tonight if they felt that I'd written something that could be looked upon as hate and religious hatred incitement."
Richard the Lionheart, it sounds like the British people need a V. When will the vigilant and virtuous be vindicated? Who will be your V? Will they be one person, or a many? Who will be India's? Canada's? Australia's? Ours here in the US? Is there no vestige of the vox populi?
Posted by: Lorem Ipsum at December 2, 2008 8:51 PM
Richard the Lionheart: I want to be clear about this. Crystal clear. Are you saying that stating publicly (including on this forum) that Islam is spiritual Nazism or some such thing is itself a dangerous statement to make in present-day Britain? I'm not talking about PC condemnation by Muslims or non-Muslim apologists for Islam. What I'm addressing here is the factor of legal culpability for openly denouncing Islam as, say, Bertrand Russell and Winston Churchill did. This in itself will get you in trouble? If so, then Britain is even more lost than I thought. And are not the bulk of the Brits sick of all this and do you not see a groundswell revolt against this nonsense? With you here, my friend, from across the pond.
Posted by: Wellington at December 2, 2008 9:36 PM
I cannot speak for Richard the Lionheart but Wellington, you are bang on the money.
The PC brigade have turned being PC into something dangerous to us - the indigenous Britons, the very people who developed into a society that wants tolerance, civility, a free society, human rights and dignity for all.
But people are not happy here anymore,we see everyday things we believe are to our detriment and most importantly changes happening in our country that are being sanctioned without consultation with the population.
It has been slow but people one would never expect to complain about such matters are beginning to do so now.
The bulldog is slowly awakening.
We do feel let down by our government and certainly lied to.
I would go along with the concept that historically this breeds contempt.
at December 2, 2008 10:14 PM
Richard the Lionheart
You know C S Lewis's 'That Hideous Strength'? Sounds like you're dealing with the real-life equivalent of the N.I.C.E , or worse.
And 'The Last Battle'? I've always thought that the business of 'Tashlan' in that story, was the perfect analogy for certain kinds of interfaith snake-oil salesmen's attempts to pass off the Mohammedans' 'allah' as the Biblical God.
It sounds like he - and G K Chesterton, with 'The Flying Inn' - were prophets.
I hope Tolkien, with 'Return of the King', book 2, chapter 8, got it right, too...
Have you visited 'The New English Review' blog? It is frequented by Mr Fitzgerald, but the personnel are overwhelmingly English.
English posters - do please keep us up to date on what happens to Damien Green.
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at December 2, 2008 10:29 PM
I forgot to add.
The last outrage being the introduction of sharia courts in the UK.The British people were not consulted about this, so what does their concept of democracy mean? it is certainly radically different to my understanding.
Having been aware of people like Choudary and Bakri (and the rest) for some years now and our governments inaction to do anything about these people but let them flourish, it is a very bitter pill to swallow indeed to have to listen to a ranting Choudary taunt the British people by openly declaring he is the "Judge of The Shari’ah Court of The UK" then having to listen to his most recent rant just reported here following the Mumbai atrocity.
The fact that this individual can congregate on British soil with his supporters and state this without any fear of action by our authorities and indeed full view of them, begs the question of whether the government are taking care of our security here.
The dangerous and logical outcome of this will be that people will quite simply begin to take care of security themselves.
at December 2, 2008 10:33 PM
News from the UK is becoming ever more frightening. Look at what they arrested the blogger Lionheart for writing and compare it to Choudary’s statements. The double standard that threatens native Britons with imprisonment for honest speech, yet allows the Muslims to say/write virtually anything with impunity is incomprehensible to someone who expects laws to be applied uniformly. This harkens back to our own phase of McCarthyism, only worse I think.
I’ll go further than that. I’ve learned from reading Robert’s books, and well-written comments here how dhimmified people of the book would be targeted and eliminated in Muslim occupied lands, think Spain. The unsubstantiated accusation by a Muslim of disrespecting Muhammad/Allah/Koran would be all it would take in some instances to have a dhimmi put to death. How close is the UK to the same exact situation with the way hate speech laws are being applied? Applied selectively to non-Muslims for speech that should be protected while Muslims are shown deferential treatment and their most egregious of hate speech is tacitly ignored by the law. And the UK is not even part of the ummah and it’s becoming as dangerous for infidels as if it were.
Can it happen here in the U.S.? I think it can if we as a country don’t start paying closer attention to what is happening in Eurabia. God help England. Yeah, yeah – atheists say shit like that. And while He’s at it, God help us if Obambi (as Pamela is wont to call him) turns out to be as bad as our worst expectations.
BTW, this on Atlas yesterday…I freakin’ loved:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/12/a-new-tactic.html
My comments may be blocked there, but I love Pamela’s site.
at December 2, 2008 10:44 PM
Isn't it odd how not one Muslim feels any shame that the Muslims that flee Islamic countries to live in Judeo-Christian Nations also humiliate
Allah by living off Welfare which comes from the taxes from all those filthy Christians and Jews.
Poor Allah....he's a Father to Artists and Street Mimes who have no skills to support themselves or contribute to Society in general.
And some of Allah's kids actually murder God's children as a favour to help spread the Peaceful message from Muhammaed and Daddy Dearest (AKA Allah).
5 billion non-Muslims on Earth are expected to live in fear of being murdered just because 1.5 billion Good-Muslims claim they can't stop a few Hijackers of their peaceful faith.
If Islam means I must have Yellow teeth/bad breath/ugly spouse/narrow mind/hate-filled heart/ suicidal/pro-pedophilia/ and worship a large Rock somewhere in Saudi Arabia.... then shoot me now because even Hell is paradise compared to Iran or the old Afghanistan.
No wonder even Muhammad fled to a Christian Country to have the freedom to start his new faith/Socialism/communism that came from the voices in his head, he knew he was safe and that Jesus never advised followers to murder in his name.
at December 3, 2008 12:15 AM
Hmm..this is all like deja vu.
Remember everyone turning a blind eye to Hitler and the nazi's when they came into power?...We can thank all those dam liberal minded governments (blame the people for thier shifting from conservative values to immoral lives) for the mess we are in.
SO like those who stood around and watched what the nazis did to the Jews and Polish people and then other groups who apposed them...the world just stood there thinking...why should we get invloved? (apathy some call it -I call it spineless cowards)
Blood will run alright....don't think it won't...when YOU lose YOUR freedom to this DEMONIC RELIGION /POLITCAL SYSTEM of ISLAM...and OUR women (mothers, sisters, daughters, nieces, grandmothers, aunts, etc) are being raped and beaten at will for being "prostitutes" according to this false prophet Mohammed's religion and false god ALLAH...what will you men do then? Coward and whimper in the corner somewhere?
Posted by: John at December 3, 2008 12:16 AM
I believe Richard the L is correct on many of the issues. I believe that "many" of the British & American "powers that be" {gov't, media, etc} have been Bought and Paid in full to ignore the dangers of Islam. They may receive their millions now - but their children and grandchildren will PAY a very dear price for their current greed..
Posted by: Panentheist at December 3, 2008 2:31 AM
The infidelophobia that pervades the Muslim community is shocking and extremely dangerous.
It's sad that Britain is also falling prey to Islam. India is already a lost cause; wonder what the future holds if even the powerful Western countries fall into this abyss of the conflict that characterizes dar-al-Harbs like India or Thailand.
at December 3, 2008 2:52 AM
"Are you saying that stating publicly (including on this forum) that Islam is spiritual Nazism or some such thing is itself a dangerous statement to make in present-day Britain?"...Wellington
Wellington, we have gone waaaay beyond that point. Several years ago Nick Griffin said in a private meeting (that was being secretly filmed by the BBC) that islam was a wicked faith or a vile ideology (can't remember which). He was put on trial and faced several years imprisonment. Fortunately, the jury acquitted him.
We have hairdressers who get sued because they didn't offer a job to a muslim who refused to take off her head scarf when working.
And yet, when Channel 4 films muslims openly advocating killing homosexuals and preaching hatred against Jews, nothing is done.
At least Quisling had the excuse that the Nazis had already overrun Norway when he betrayed his country....
Posted by: Celsius at December 3, 2008 3:05 AM
A friend of mine recently initiated a friendly chat with a ticket collector at a main railway terminus in London. He was a Muslim. She is a Christian. She informed him that she had recently read the Koran and she complained that it was full of hatred towards Christians and Jews and that Mohammed was a warlord, plunderer, murderer and so on. That he taught his followers to kill. Her interlocutor went straight to the British Transport police at the station and they arrested her on the spot. She was charged with inciting religious...and yes you guessed it...racial hatred. A month later she received a discharge due to the fact that she has suffered from bipolar depression for many years and therefore her so-called loss of respect and decency was forgivable.
at December 3, 2008 4:32 AM
I remember Blair saying that Islam could well grow to replace Christianity as our national religion. Since making that statement the government has deliberately set about undermining the church's position in the UK and has conducted social engineering projects and policies to ensure the moral and cultural decline of the nation. Once weakened we are more likely to accept Islam as our national religion and less likely to organise ourselves to resist it. Even Prince Charles has recognised this change is inevitable and wants to change his title to Defender of Faiths and not just Faith. Unfortunately for him and Blair there is no place for them in the new regime unless of course they change their religions.
Posted by: Tommo at December 3, 2008 5:11 AM
"Judge of The Shari’ah Court of The UK."
Ha! He literally couldn't get a job as a lawyer because of his horrible grades in law school. Nobody even believes that he actually passed (whatever the British equivalent of) Bar exams. The 'racial hatred' law was the only thing that kept anyone from exposing him for not having passed them himself. That's hilarious. Judge my arse. Not even a paralegal.
Posted by: jdamn at December 3, 2008 5:12 AM
Just to confirm RtL's post about the state of "freedom" in Britain.
Surveillance
A Village Christmas show, "Snow White and the 7 Asylum Seekers was ordered to submit the script to the Race Relations Board "to ensure the are not committing an offense".
A man making a living from 8000 advertising sheets given out weekly at local supermarkets copied a joking item about immigrants from a national paper. He was visited by the police who backed off when they learned the source.
The National Lottery set up to fund charities is run by government appointees. It grants funds to "Searchlight" an "anti-fascist" group that carries out surveillance of BNP members right down to any non-political social clubs they may belong to.
Dual standards
The Head of the race relations board with obvious reference to muslims said, basically "People who do not like the way we make laws should move somewhere else". The Mayor of London's aide said the same thing 3 months ago and he was fired.
A popular comedian said on the BBC "The best way to deal with the BNP is to take the 800,000 people who voted for it out and put a bullet in the back of their necks. The BBC admitted that was "A little extreme" but had he said it about any other group he would have been finished and probably jailed.
Finally, I take it all our posts on JW and elsewhere are monitored by a first year clerk who files them and may occasionally refer them to a second year clerk.
Posted by: Fred at December 3, 2008 5:56 AM
derak
"Damian Green, a conservative MP and Shadow Minister for Immigration, [was] seized by anti-terrorist personnel from the Metropolitan police, held for questioning for 9 hours"
An interesting point was made by former conservative leader Micheal Howard on TV this morning.
Senior labour figures have said they knew nothing about the arrest. He asked, had they already told the police they did not want to know "details" about the investigation?
They a bunch of devious b*******s and I reckon Howard put his finger on it. They are still BLiar people at the top and they have always used "conditional" truth.
Posted by: Fred at December 3, 2008 6:34 AM
Dear All,
I wrote what I did because the situation in the UK is dire. It is seriously dire indeed. I'm glad you can see the writing on the wall Derak, as I hope others in the USA will see that we in the UK are not weak, far from it. We are just seriously being oppressed big time.
Lorem Ipsum,
Richard the Lionheart, it sounds like the British people need a V. When will the vigilant and virtuous be vindicated? Who will be your V? Will they be one person, or a many? Who will be India's? Canada's? Australia's? Ours here in the US? Is there no vestige of the vox populi?
We badly need a 'V'. I really don't think the situation has been worse than it is now. Many people will say that things were bad in War time and I will agree, but the main difference there was at least the government and police were for Britain and the British people. They weren't Judas' who had sold their fellow countrymen to the Muslims. One also has to remember that our enemy at WW1 & 2 was outside of the UK. Now our enemy is not only outside but inside as well. The gates have been breached and four million Muslims in the UK, many sympathetic to the Jihadist cause is really a worrying thought. How many are ready to rise up in their communities and create Mumbais all over the UK in every city? The problem with a V is that with modern technology living the life that 'V' did in the film "V for Vendetta" would be an impossibility. How on earth would he manage to escape the infra red helicopter patrols, or the directional super microphones, not forgetting the DNA and CCTV. Everyone's watched CSI and our secret forces have every weapon needed in their arsenal to completely keep every UK citizen under their foot. They have no care whatsoever for the British people and their Nation. Most senior police and army and everyone else in positions of power is very possibly a member of Common Purpose.
Wellington,
Are you saying that stating publicly (including on this forum) that Islam is spiritual Nazism or some such thing is itself a dangerous statement to make in present-day Britain?
I hope you are well, but I am saying the above is very true indeed. What I was meaning in essence in my last post was that a person would be a fool to post what he/she thought would be Britain's best move to confront the problem with Islam here in the UK. Celsius' post at December 3, 2008 3:05 AM answered your question well. Not only have people been persecuted but now our local councils are using terrorist laws with which to spy and prosecute the public who put their rubbish out a day early or so. Our society is going the same way as Nazi Germany went. Radical feminism has managed to completely take control of the state and therefore the father is no longer looked upon as a parent as used to. The Child Support Agency in the UK is responsible for the deaths of hundreds of fathers who have lost everything because of having to repay money to their children's mother. This money has most times been at least 75% of their weekly income and in times 100%. The CSA is collapsing because of many reasons but it all adds up.
All we have to do is look and see what happened in the past when the state took control of society and our children. Think of Nazi Germany, Russia, Italy where people spied on their neighbour. This is what the UK is like. Our government wants to ban happy hour and smoking full stop. They are not content if they are controlling our lives 100% and dictating to us how we should live.
In fact, I was out with a friend and we spoke of just that. We danced on various topics but all that I've written on here we touched upon. We spoke of how there are continuous adverts on the television telling us what we should drink and how many. What we should eat, wear etc etc. I was angry saying that a doctor's job is to patch people up as a mechanic's job is to fix my car. It's up to me whether I choose to drink or smoke and no one else but they and the government cannot see this.
If I went to speakers corner a well known place in London where people get up and speak their mind and openly denounced Islam, it would not be long before a member of the public would have called the police and stated I was inciting hatred towards Muslims. In fact more than likely it would be a Muslim.
You are correct there are many Brits who are sick of this but they are helpless. BNP supporters are being arrested just for leafleting I heard recently. Then again there are many Brits who just haven't an idea what's going on in the UK as they believe everything the government tells them, what the TV tells them, or simply aren't interested as going to the football twice weekly, watching their plasma, bringing up their children, going to the pub is all they're interested in. Many cannot see what is happening under their noses. This is reality. I have many ideas with which to stop islamisation but I'd be mad to write about it on a public forum or anywhere public for that matter as it would be used in evidence, in a court against me on Inciting Religious Hatred towards Islam.
dumbledoresarmy,
I have read the books and yes CS Lewis' 'The Hideous Strength's N.I.C.E.' is very much what we're dealing with. We could also mention Terry Gilliam's 'Brazil', Orwell's '1984', Aldous Huxley's 'Brave New World' and of course a multitude of others. I respect your optimism and trying to keep me optimistic, but at the moment I can't really get to that place DA. Every day more and more rules are being brought in by NuLabour to further keep the people down. The last refuge of the working man and in fact any man was the public house. They've now managed to move in and take that over too. I could rattle off more laws of how the labour party are completely destroying the UK but it's too depressing.
The bottom line with the government is that they've sold the British people out to Islam and Europe so that they can make rich reward for themselves.
Did you know DA that Tony Blair in one year after leaving office made six times more than his ten years as Prime Minister? This is what the politicians are looking at. They do not do the job to better the UK but instead to line their own pockets. They are career politicians and they are a vile breed. They are in power, put there by the people to protect the values and the people of the UK and they are doing exactly the opposite. I also have other things going on in my life that are not too good, probably why my posts of late have been somewhat negative, but then I just write as I feel and seem to see life from ground level.
And last but not least, I treated myself to a haircut and decided to go to Wedge Hairdressers in London. This was the hairdressing Salon whose owner Sarah Des Rosiers was sued by the Muslim, Bushra Noah for £35,000 and managed to win £4,000.
I was shocked when she told me the whole story and how pathetic her lawyer was. I was amazed that a 10 minute interview landed her in court and ordered to pay £4,000. I felt I should go in order to help her with the fine and to show moral support. She was of course thankful and a lovely person. This sums up the UK. This shows how pathetic our appeasement and pandering to Islam and Political correctness has got. Only the other day a man who marched an employee to the police station with a "Thief" sign around his neck for trying to cash a cheque to the sum of £800 from his business account was charged by police for false arrest and is now awaiting court. Rubbish like this happens on a daily basis.
American's many of you just do not realise that we are all being watched like hawks here in the UK. The government is trying to control every aspect of our lives more and more each day. Our situation in the UK is a bad one. You wouldn't want to live under our regime. That's why I'm trying to get out.
at December 3, 2008 9:09 AM
revparadigm,
Thank-you for your excellent Bible teaching. God Bless.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at December 3, 2008 9:14 AM
Fred
"Damian Green, a conservative MP and Shadow Minister for Immigration, [was] seized by anti-terrorist personnel from the Metropolitan police, held for questioning for 9 hours"
The latest on this issue is that the Metropolitan police carried out the raid in our parliament WITHOUT a warrant, WITHOUT the Speaker's knowledge and WITHOUT consent of anyone at Westminster. This was a raid on our democracy which is unprecedented in 200-years of our parliamentary system. The only person who could have stopped this raid and didn't was the Sergeant-at-Arms who, contrary to tradition, is a women and happens to be coloured. Not only is she clearly out of her depth in this appointment, it demonstrates the depths political correctness has infiltrated into the the very seat of government. This issue has some way to go and the police maybe called to the bar at Westminster for questioning.
Posted by: Tommo at December 3, 2008 11:27 AM
Richard the Lionheart and Celsius: Thank you both for your posts. America is still a free country (main exception here is much of academia where PC nonsense, multiculturalism and thought police prevail; not sure yet what America will look like after a few years with Obama at the helm) but Britain does indeed look like a sad case. Not to be too harsh, but every people have the government they deserve. If the bulk of the Brits themselves won't take charge to stop the descent into a polity that will bear little resemblance to Old Britain then it is they who are ultimately at fault. Ditto for Americans if they allow their country to go the way of Britain. Holy hell, how did all this happen? I can imagine what Churchill would say of all this rot.
Posted by: Wellington at December 3, 2008 12:02 PM
Wellington, you're most welcome.
Not to be too harsh, but every people have the government they deserve.
Holy hell, how did all this happen?
You can blame the people Wellington, but many are naive about what's really going on, not forgetting pig ignorant. You can also look at the situation that many Indigenous Brits went to school with Muslims/other cultures whereas many of us here did not. They of course do not see them as a threat, but as "my mate Muhammad from Edgware Elementary class of '98".
Our society has also changed because the young have gained more positions of power and the traditional values of family, respect for elders has completely broken down. Television is no longer a tool to educate the people but instead a forum to advertise your wares to millions.
Like water dripping on a stone over a period of time, it will eventually break through and that's just what's happened to the UK, with a proven society, that worked wonders and was responsible for many great things over the last millennium. There is a new dawn Wellington and the children of tomorrow, will like our children of the past forget what history has taught them and blood will be spilled again, the price of freedom will be known again and respected for a while until history repeats itself. It's just a real pity that more and more people didn't educate themselves better, but then with NuLabour destroying education in the UK, I see why history repeats itself, over and over and over again. Knowledge is power and NuLabour are securing that power by stopping others from having it.
That's where it all went wrong Wellington. I'm sure I've missed other vital parts of British history, but you'll get the overall gist of the situation from what I've written.
Posted by: Richard the Lionheart at December 3, 2008 12:46 PM
I was putting up an add to sell a computer(on Gumtree). Ooops!!
I'm currently trying to buy a computer on Gumtree. It's not from you, is it?
WSW
Posted by: Wild Slutty Womens at December 3, 2008 12:58 PM
Nope, I doubt it. I put it up and then took it off not long afterwards. I gave it to a friend as an early Christmas present.
Posted by: Richard the Lionheart at December 3, 2008 1:08 PM
Wellington, without disagreeing with Lionheart's post, I'd just summarise my opinion by saying that it's clear there is a plan to destroy every sovereign Nation State in Europe.
The main driving force is unchecked immigration from incompatible third world countries along with assorted Marxist policies to undermine traditional society (See Lionheart's post for examples). This combined with a dumbed down education system means that the goal is well within sight.
The only thing I can't work out is why is this being done? Why would home-grown politicians seek to destroy a homogeneous, wealthy and successful society and turn it into the hell hole which is all too apparent?
Posted by: Celsius at December 3, 2008 1:41 PM
Celsius,
The only thing I can't work out is why is this being done? Why would home-grown politicians seek to destroy a homogeneous, wealthy and successful society and turn it into the hell hole which is all too apparent?
I strongly suggest you read The Great Deception: Can the European Union Survive? by Christopher Booker, Richard North. In it you will find much of what you desire to know and it provides it all wrapped up in fact!
I wondered too, why would someone destroy something that works wonderfully, has led the way forward for humanity as well as created so much in the fields of Art, Technology and Medicine, along with many others. I realised after much thought that it's all about power. It always boils down to power, greed and corruption.
Let's look at NuLabour and the Elites in control of other European countries. They believe that everyone in this world should be given the same chance as everyone else which fair enough is a good ideal. However they look at places like Africa and instead of blaming Africa for Africa's demise they blame the West. The Socialists/marxists effectively want to get rid of all culture, history and race and have one being inhabiting the earth. That way they believe they will have peace as they will have cured the world of Nationalism, race and religion, the main reasons for why there is war. All you have to do really is look at classic sci-fi films and each one has managed to capture a glimpse of our future. From Metropolis to Logan's Run, The Martian Chronicles to The Running Man and from 1984 to Gattica. This is the future we are creating. They are trying to create a world where no one is better than the other and we are all automatons. However even they will realise that to have excellence in the fields of science, art, etc etc one has to be better than the other and you need the best of the best. This is when they will of course start to persecute. They will build cities that will be encased in protective globes, where the poor will live outside. The elite will exist within and of course there will be an elite amongst the elite milking them for as much money with to sit and call the shots, live like Lords. They are trying to create Utopia but are in fact making a future hell.
Our difference is what makes us unique and this should always be protected. The left can't see this. Then again they are unable to see past their own noses and that's the big problem.
at December 3, 2008 2:09 PM
RtL-
Everything in your last post is entirely applicable to America today. The writing is on the wall, as I said earlier, and we here in the US must wake up. NOW!
I certainly have a greater appreciation as to the true danger Robert has potentially subjected himself to in order to enlighten us. As if having weapons scanners at colleges for his (and Pipes) speeches didn't register. As if Mark Steyn's kangaroo court fiasco didn't register....
Alas, I do believe it will take many 9/11's to slap the ignorant out of their soma coma.
And Celsius, I am desperately trying to figure out your question as well. Horowitz' book "Unholy Alliance" is a start, but I'm still confused.
I am confused by those who seek and value power beyond all other human endeavors. I just plain don't understand this.
Much. work. to. do.
at December 3, 2008 2:19 PM
Lionheart, thanks for the recommendation. The book certainly has good reviews.
And I won't go into detail in my opinion of ZaNu Labour. The damage they have wreaked on the UK over the past 11 years is beyond repair.
Derak, I don't think the USA overall is in as bad a position as Europe, but you are still in danger from the drip drip of demographics and stealth Jihad as evidenced so many times by Robert's writings.
Posted by: Celsius at December 3, 2008 2:35 PM
Celsius and Richard the Lionheart: Interesting analyses. Thanks again. I would proffer a few theories of my own. First, liberty should always be valued over equality. When the reverse happens, watch out. The only place where equality should exist is under the law. Other than the law, forget about equality because if you don't then you get social engineering, which inevitably leads to more governmental power and then government officals start to get wrapped up in the power phenomenon now provided them. And like an addict, the more they get, the more they want.
Second, up until the mid-nineteenth century liberalism was truly about freedom accompanied by responsibility. The Founding Fathers of this country, probably Thomas Jefferson foremost, are exemplars of this kind of old-fashioned liberalism. But beginning in the 1840s or so (which interestingly is just about the time when all the Founding Fathers of America had passed away), socialistic tenets began to creep into liberal thought. This has been a disaster. It started with men like Blanc, Marx and Engels and has continued unabated to the present day. Socialism emphasizes equality over liberty, which harkens back to my first point, as well as pointing a dagger at the profit motive in capitalism, which is also about liberty, except in economic form, and so the more socialistic a political philosophy is, the more dearth of liberty one will find across the board. Added to this true loss of liberty has been a declining recognition that with liberty comes responsibility. As liberty has declined, so has responsibility for one's actions. Modern popular culture, what Alexander Solzhenitsyn called all manure, is the result.
Third, the nation state is a magnificent development that came out of the Middle Ages as a solution to the vulnerability that ancient city-states and other small political units were subject to because of their size and the often too large, too amorphous imperial approach which was difficult to keep a loyalty to in large part precisely because it was too big, though Rome did a damn fine job of things here for centuries until loss of will, devaluing of Roman citizenship and allowance of foreign peoples to settle within the Empire en masse occurred (sound familiar?). But the nation state has come to be dismissed as anachronistic by those who see it as an obstacle to socialism. Just so because freedom and nation states are intertwined with each other.
So, the emphasis on equality, the socialistic elements that have crept into liberalism and the bad odor that nation states are presently held in by many of the elites are all tied together and have led to the present situation (including unchecked immigration and loss of pride in one's heritage) that many old European states find themselves in and which America is in the process of dealing with right now. The solution to this morass we're presently confronted with is to revalue the nation state and make patriotism (not to be confused with a bullying nationalism) paramount, accompanied by greater liberty, which means exirpation of excessive emphasis on equality and socialistic precepts. Will it be done? Don't know. But if it isn't, then the slide downwards for the West will continue.
Posted by: Wellington at December 3, 2008 3:13 PM
Choudhary: "There’s no comparison between our way of life and theirs."
I agree. That's because you and your ilk are medieval, misogynistic, bloodthirsty, fanatical savages.
Posted by: f-ala at December 3, 2008 5:56 PM
There is no such thing as equality in a capitalist society. I would also argue that the push for equality is what destroyed the modern family, not radical feminism. Radical feminists don't exist in the real world. They exist in academia and politics, and where they do exist in the real world it's only among those women who are past reproductive age or close to it and are jaded by having been rejected or screwed-over. The socialist monopoly on public schools has lowered the quality of education. It has also led to the reverse of equality in the form of perpetually underfunded ghetto schools so that poor blacks can't work their way up like they could 50 years ago. High texas and regulations have created a mushroom economy (which tanked) wherein everyone has to work for large corporations because starting and running a business is unaffordable or at least undesirably risky. And let's face it: socialists are always elitists. Sure, it comes from naivete, since they're living in la-la land, hence the fact that they're concentrated in Holywood, the media, academia, and among youngsters. Thy have never really worked for a living. They like their la-la land and they think that they are creating utopia. Do you think they want to work side-side with Mexicans like I did for 11 years? Hell no. That would pop their little bubble, as would honest, hard work in any form.
I also think that radical feminism and Islam make for an interesting mix. And you know how much Muslim women must hate men. I would too if the only men I was ever surrounded by were Muslim. One checks the other ... until they clash.
Posted by: jdamn at December 3, 2008 6:26 PM
"They have never really worked for a living. They like their la-la land and they think that they are creating utopia."
jdamn
Got it in one. Most of the British government have never had a proper job in their lives. They are lawyers, social workers and "political activists" who have never got their hands dirty or had to worry whether their boss made a profit.
4th attempt to post damn Type Pad!
Posted by: Fred at December 3, 2008 6:40 PM
Lionheart, (in reference to your post or 12-3 9:09am)
Just as important as the British People's resolve and unity was in WW II, they had Churchill who understood the threat, and was able to call it by it's real name. He was able to rally the Nation. The situation in Mumbai and now this Choudry man's lunatic rantings may educate and change minds of the average Brit that clings to any pc notion that Islam is a ROP, or that there will be peace if the nation accomodates Islam's demands. These and future incidents may serve as a cry to havoc.
As to the V reference, I fully understand that the mechanics of his lifestyle are an impossibility; I think they were an artistic device to further the idea that the people, en masse will rally to a trigger event. What will it take for a nation (The People, and right now, there are still enough right Englishmen to be considered a majority) to stand up as a collective and say to both their leadership and their agressors 'ENOUGH!'?
What really caught my attention in the movie was the use of the flash mob in the final scene. There were just too many people for the military to mow down with machine guns, tanks, etc. Would the British Gov't. want a massacre of it's citizens by it's own hand on it's human rights record? What rlse could they do? Round 'em up and send 'em to Australia? Or the Colonies? Heck, the rank and file military may even join 'em in the collective ENOUGH!. Especially the battle tested veterans who have seen first hand what they fought against in the ME, and what they now must suppress at home.
Surveilance technology and the nature of the enemy preclude any effective use of modern communication to arrange such a flash mob, but an act so horrific, even more so than Mumbai, or the WTO Massacre or 7-7 may create the meme that drives a mass gathering.
Richard, many Americans do understand and appreciate what the man on the street Brit is facing. We faced it here, once upon a time. We decided we didn't fancy it, and fought to get free of it. I'm not advocating violence or armed insurrection, but some day it may be an unfortunate unavoidance.
I think the 2nd ammendment here in the US is what has so far prevented our government from being as blatantly stupid in the human rights/thought crime sphere as the UK. However, with our President-elect's record on the matter and his call for 20,000 domestic troops it makes one wonder what's around our corner for us.
Now, to catch up on this threads comments!
Darn this TypePad! Attempt 8! Is TypePad owned by an Islamist?
Posted by: Lorem Ipsum at December 3, 2008 11:38 PM
Wow. Thank you Wellington, Celsius, Lorem I, Jdamn, Fred, RlT. Some thinking to do.
Posted by: derak at December 4, 2008 1:06 AM
I predicted a mumbai attack in the UK at least 2 years ago...I had information I passed on to the authorities.
I live amongst them...
The first breath that came out of me when i saw the mumbai attacks was "british pakis"
Why?
The UK is the hotbed for jihadi operations because they operate with impunity...
Get that word in your head..impunity means what it is.
see it in your dictionary and read it over and over again....
these people operate with impunity..why?....
its all loaded up and were supposed to take it?
I would hate to see the British people rise up again..But if they do let me tell you that voice will strike the world again.
It's quite simple...don't fuck with us.
at December 4, 2008 1:06 AM
Derak,
I have to agree with Celsius on America. America really is nowhere near where the UK is. Your American Constitution gives people the freedoms that we in the UK have lost. You're protected from the very problems we now in the UK are facing. Sure, what's happened in the UK is happening in the USA but like I said you have safeguards in place to make sure that it doesn't get as far as it has in the UK.
Robert is using his skill with words and in depth knowledge on Islam to warn us of the dangers. Islam hates him for this. The authorities will no doubt hate him for this but the people respect him greatly for this as he is wanting us of the loss of the very things we take for granted. I take my hat of to him and respect him greatly for this.
Celsius,
Hope you enjoy it. It's a heavy read, lots of dates and names. You're looking at the history of the EU's creation up to present day(nearly 90 years) in one book! Don't worry about not going in to discussion on ZaNu Labour. They have wrecked the UK disastrously and you and I are not the only people to see this.
Wellington,
I would like to go into detail on your post but I haven't the time unfortunately. I will however say one thing that I would believe that the founding fathers of the USA were far more 'libertarian' than 'Liberal'. Liberalism, believe it or not is the very ideology that is destroying the USA and has destroyed the UK. Remember Wellington, with your knowledge of the Great Wars, you will know that had it not been for Churchill stepping in after Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler and his Nazi Party, the War would have been lost. Chamberlain, although a member of the Conservatives was viewed very much as a liberal and liberal thinking does not agree in War, a vital part of the defence of any Nation.
You know that saying "A liberal is a conservative that hasn't been mugged". It's a true definition of liberalism. They have their ideas, they have their beliefs and yes many are certainly admirable, but until you've experienced life and what it has to throw at you, then you realise that liberal ideology is 'just pie in the sky' and cannot work in a modern society. A liberal's view on life(one of them), especially here in the UK, is to not lock up prisoners as we should not do this to other humans however a conservatives view is exactly the opposite. They know that if you do not lock up that person who has done wrong, then that person will do wrong again, therefore destroying yet another member of the public and those around his life. It is about forethought and liberal's do not have this. In their valiant struggle for human rights and equality, yes equality very much a liberal trait, they miss everything else. We are not equal, we never will be. Our differences make us unique and we should capitalise on them not suppress them. Our NuLabour government(Socialist liberals) have decided that everyone MUST have an education and go to University. Any sane person will know that this not only takes up valuable resources, but is insane as not everyone wants to go to University as who will be the plumbers, carpenters, electricians etc etc, the vital parts of a society not of Academia?
Wellington, Liberalism is destroying the West and I'm not the only person to see this. Many are opening up their eyes and ears to the madness of Liberalism as it is the main ingredient in the destruction of any civilisation.
jdamn,
I agree with some of your views(Radical feminism existing in academia and politics, socialist monopoly, high taxation,) in fact I agree with almost all apart from Radical Feminism. Let me illustrate. It is their relationship with socialism in that Radical Feminism has had the strength with which to invade patriarchal society. Feminism could never have succeeded had it not been for men to have bowed down to their rantings. Feminists only have what they have because of what men have allowed them to have. Now before women start shouting out sexist, then think about it. Our society was a patriarchal one where man dominated. There was no war between man and women. Men allowed women the power they have today. They did not take it. The strive for equality was very much the weapon of the women and not the men. It was the feminists in society who demanded this and that and not the other way around. Man already had what he wanted and it was the feminists who decided to cut into man's pie and over time that piece has grown and grown.
Radical feminism for example has been the driving force behind the breakdown of the family, as you explained it was equality, but it was the feminists that pushed for this, certainly not the masculanists. It was the feminists who decided to chase absent fathers, not the men. Although I agree that a man who runs out on his children and wants nothing to do with them is wrong, especially when he's left a loving wife/partner to be with another, what I disagree vehemently is men who are forced out of a house by a partner who never loved them, had him get her pregnant in order to be able to live off the state and then shaft him for all his income a week in order to support her lifestyle, because I've found in most situations, the child rarely benefits, from the money from the father. The breakdown of the family unit is down to feminism and the continuing pursuit of equality too like you have said but you have to realise where this drive for equality came from and it came from the women, not the men.
Lorem Ipsum,
You are very correct. The UK had Churchill, an elected politician, by the people, who believed first and foremost in the UK and the Nation State. It was his love of Britain that led him to be one of the most well known and respected figures this world has ever known.
I don't know however if Mumbai and Choudary will change the feelings of the people in the UK. The 9/11 atrocity should have changed the feelings. The 7/7 bombings should have changed the feelings of the British people. The riots in Bradford in 2001 should have changed the feelings, but they didn't. Heck, the fact that NuLabour took the UK into an illegal war that was not needed in Iraq in 2003 should have woken them up but they still voted them in in 2007 for a 3rd term! The fact that our soldiers are dying in Afghanistan in a war that cannot be won should have woken them up but it hasn't. Unless a country educates its populous and makes them feel love and respect for their Nation and those who have done great things for them then the people will have no loyalty or care for their history or future in the UK. Therefore, when they should have 'clicked' after 9/11 they didn't as they had it in their minds, thanks to left wing propaganda that America brought this upon themselves, by supporting Israel and their 'aggression' in Palestine. They have been successfully indoctrinated by the left wing, themselves indoctrinated and brainwashed by Islam who continue to indoctrinate their children in the Death Cult that is Islam, although disguising it as the Religion of Peace. They have been successfully indoctrinated into believing that Islam is peaceful and the west is attacking them not the other way around. Until they snap out of this madness Islam has a clear path to Islamisation of the UK.
The only way the British people can fight against this madness is to vote out the LabConLib alliance. There are many fringe parties that offer love of the Nation and not just the BNP. 'V' would certainly be a breath of fresh air but that person would never exist, well, not unless superman arrived from the planet Krypton to sort out Islam. The ending of the film V for Vendetta was rather poignant. United we stand, divided we fall. Remember also that the army would not fire on their own people in today's day and age and if there ever was to be a change in the UK, I believe that we may see a military coup before an election of another party if things got really bad. The government may control the army and the police but if it gets to a point when they realise that the government is wrong, they will rebel and there will be no one to defend the politicians. Therefore, it is of great importance for governments to protect the very people that protect them and NuLabour have not done this. They are cutting the Armed Forces budget monthly and this is resulting in the deaths of many in our current wars. There was a time when people had stopped joining because they were angry as well as people leaving the Armed Forces on masse, but now that's changing because of recession.
I think people who read JW and the comments from British posters realise what the picture is in the UK. However I think that many Americans think we are weak, allowing Islam to encroach so far into our lives. Don't get me wrong, I do think there are many sheep in the UK without a doubt, in fact the majority, but then they don't know what's going on if no one tells them and seeing as they're being lied to by the media and the government then you can't really say it's their fault. Sure many are naive, but not everyone is like you or I in that we search high and low for information on what's really going on. It is always a small minority that make the biggest changes in society. All revolutions of the past have been orchestrated by the few, the middle classes with the working classes as the muscle.
America has testing times ahead of it. They can see what's going on in Europe and they are no doubt appalled like we are in the UK, but then you have many Muslim organisation in the USA that are growing. Islam in the USA is growing and it won't be long before Islam in the USA is larger than the population of the UK!
I don't have a crystal ball and hence I cannot see the future but I know that unless we make drastic changes, things will be very bad indeed.
I just want to finish by saying that this has been a most enjoyable experience to read the views of all of you. It's just a pity that these posts are archived and debate has to stop, but then, we have to take the good times when they come and make the most of them.
Thank you all.
Posted by: Richard the Lionheart at December 4, 2008 8:06 AM
Richard the Lionheart: We're in essential agreement. Conservatism also got infected gradually over the generations with liberal thought. Chamberlain was indeed a good exmaple of this just as Churchill was a throwback to a past era. Of course, I would still argue that liberalism before socialistic tenets began to infect it in the mid-nineteenth century was true liberalism------preserving tradition while embracing progress, standing up for individual rights, awareness that government is best which ordinarily governs least, recognition that where there is no private property there is no liberty. If you wish to call this libertarianism rather then original liberalism, that's fine with me. But I would like it understood that the original liberalism has been debased, particularly from the 1960s onwards, and so I fully agree with you that modern liberalism is the cause of almost every major ill that afflicts Western societies today. For myself, I can say that I am a liberal-------a Jeffersonian liberal. Before the deluge and all that.
Thanks for communicating. Good to read your posts as always. Take care and may I say long live the Old Britain, down with the new one.
Posted by: Wellington at December 4, 2008 5:38 PM
Signs of defiance.
Hanukkah lamps and Israeli flag and a big six-pointed star and a loudspeaker playing Handel's Judas Maccabeus and Ha Tikvah and Jerusalem the Golden.
Christmas tree ablaze with lights...and decorated with emblems of Israel, USA, England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, Denmark, Netherlands
A reading of 'Battle of Lepanto' or 'The Crusader Returns from Captivity' at the Christmas dinner table.
Richard the Lionheart - do you know about Anglican Friends of Israel? I think Esmerelda Weatherwax aka Granny Weatherwax, occasional poster on this forum and contributor to 'New English Review', is involved with them. There was another contributor some years ago, 'Polish Infideless', who was also active in that group.
http://www.anglicanfriendsofisrael.com/
Check out the event they are planning for 14-16 December.
Supporting Israel is one of the best and simplest ways to cock a snook at the jihadists.
All UK Resisters of Jihad and Sharia who live within easy travelling distance might like to go along in force to this 'Friends of Israel' event, a street fair entitled 'A Taste of Israel', on the very eve of Hanukkah, and coinciding with Ariel Eldad's 'Facing jihad' conference in Jerusalem.
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at December 4, 2008 9:38 PM
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