Ah yes I can imagine the meeting:

USA: Hello Hamas we are here for peace.
Hamas: We want the complete and utter destruction of Israel
USA: That's a bit extreme, can we not come to an agreement?
Hamas: We want the complete and utter destruction of Israel and Jewish people all over the World. We want Islam, the only true Religion to reign over the world as Muhammad(pbuh) wished.
USA: Well, we can give you Gaza and move the Israelis out?
Hamas: We want all of Israel for the Muslims and no more Jews to walk on this earth. We also want no more Christians, Hindus, Sikhs......
USA: How about we move the Jewish people out of Israel and give them Texas?
Hamas: We want the extermination of all Jews and the Islamisation of the World.
USA: One turns to the other and says, maybe we should have continued what Bush initiated and not have spoken to these terrorists?

Posted by: Richard the Lionheart at January 8, 2009 8:53 PM

Ooooooh I forgot the piece de resistance :

We are Hamas/Islam. Resistance is futile. Prepare to be assimilated.......

Posted by: Richard the Lionheart at January 8, 2009 8:57 PM

I wonder how close Obama and Hamas will get.

Christopher Hamilton
The Right Opinion, for the Right Wing

Posted by: Christopher Hamilton at January 8, 2009 9:06 PM

A bit off topic but I have to say I was quite shocked at viscous attacks that former Presidential candidate Pat Buchanon made today on I believe CNN Headline news. He simply couldn't stop bashing the Israelis and made the Palestinians out to be the real victims in about 5 or 6 different reasons,even accusing them of stealing land from the Palestinians, the other pro Israeli guest was quite angry with his charges and even asked him if he had ever read the 36 articles of the Hamas Charter; Buchanon dismissed it as having read it before.

I had heard rumblings of Buchanons antisemitism but I have never heard him so blatant about it. I felt like I was listening to a Palestinian propagandist.

Posted by: Mackie at January 8, 2009 9:17 PM

It looks like boredom isn't going to be a problem anytime soon.

BHO is will either be the most naive President we have had since Carter, or the least loyal President in terms of Western values over the life of the country.

Either way, its going to be a difficult four years. Just when you thought Bush was bad, this guy is Carter squared.

Posted by: JSobieski at January 8, 2009 9:18 PM

A great many people in Official Washington, in both parties, and all over the place, are ignorant of Islam. And a great many such people are stupid. But I can't believe they are quite that ignorant, and that stupid.

Posted by: Hugh at January 8, 2009 9:20 PM

The sooner Obama bin Biden leave office, the better. We can only be safer then. Real hope and a change for the better.

Posted by: John C at January 8, 2009 9:28 PM

Obama talks (sub rosa) with HAMAS. Translation: recognition, open borders, and jizya for hudna and deceit. What a deal!

Posted by: John C at January 8, 2009 9:33 PM

It was only a while ago that I figured out that "neocons" is a code-word for Jew. The blatant anti-Semitism is truly breath-taking.

Well, it certainly looks like we're getting the "change" that was promised, sadly.

As for Hugh's comment, a while ago there were postings that Robert was speaking at various governmental agencies so it seemed that some people in the government were looking for legitimate information sources. I hope that the lack of mention of him meeting with various governmental agencies isn't indicative of him not being invited to speak. We citizens need our public servants to be aware of what is really going on in the world.

Posted by: eve_anne_gelical at January 8, 2009 9:34 PM

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. What if the Obama administration explains to Hamas that Gaza will continue to suffer so long as it refuses to recognize previously signed agreementccords by the previous Palestinian administration. If Hamas tells the US administration that it will not comply with the terms of those agreements, including the cessation of violence and the recognition of Israel, in spite of any suffering in Gaza than the US knows who its dealing with and whom the Gazans willfully elected to represent them.

Posted by: thank_god_im_an_infidel at January 8, 2009 9:39 PM

Richard Haass, a diplomat under both presidents Bush who was named by a number of news organisations this week as Obama's choice for Middle East envoy, supports low level contacts with Hamas provided there is a ceasefire in place and a Hamas-Fatah reconciliation emerges.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

(Provided there is a ceasefire?)
So I guess that means there won't be any low level talks, unless the pilots yell as they fly by.

Posted by: dammahom at January 8, 2009 9:42 PM

Now if the Obama administration can just TALK to our enemies, and show them that we are willing to address the underlying causes of their hostility, and resolve matters by dealing with them and taking their legitimate claims seriously, ackowledging their just grievances, We will attain a lasting (Judenrein) peace! /sarc

Posted by: John C at January 8, 2009 9:46 PM

It looks like boredom isn't going to be a problem anytime soon.

BHO is will either be the most naive President we have had since Carter, or the least loyal President in terms of Western values over the life of the country.

Either way, its going to be a difficult four years. Just when you thought Bush was bad, this guy is Carter squared.

Posted by: JSobieski at January 8, 2009 9:51 PM

It doesn't surprise me given the bozos who Obie has chosen for running the CIA and SoS.

Also I think its a bone thrown to the Left for their support obie. The thing is the Left hates Israel and is virulently anti-semitic(just check out dkos).

Posted by: waltc at January 8, 2009 9:57 PM

Sometimes things have to get worse before they get better. The Republican got their chance and they decided the problem was related to the lack of democracy in the Islamic world. If we just did away with the terrorist, and dictators, the true peaceful Islam would appear. It did not work out very well.

Now the democrats are getting their crack at bat. They think it has something to do with oppression, poverty, and once again due to a lack of freedom. Thus if they just talk to them, understand their pain, and remove the so-called “western oppressions” the true peaceful Islam would appear. This won’t work out very well either.

The point is Winston Churchill was right about us Americans….we are still exhausting possibilities…

It is real simple. We must identify Islam as the source of the problems. Until a political party does that we will continue to make blunder after blunder…

The real battle against Islam will occur in the west, in our hometowns, and major cities. It will occur in street corners, and inside of governments. Presidents like this will come and go, from both parties, until we win this battle...

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at January 8, 2009 10:02 PM

Speaking of talking to nutjobs - things are getting even nuttier.

The Long War Journal, published by Bill Roggio, who has contacts with US intelligence circles, says that retired ISI general Hamid Gul directly participated in the Mumbai attacks:

http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2009/01/mumbai_handlers_in_p.php

Six Pakistani handlers monitored the news coverage from Mumbai and kept in constant touch with the terrorists holed up in Nariman House and the Taj Mahal and Trident hotels during the three day siege. The handlers are identified as Zarar, Kafa, Wassi, Jundal, Buzurg, and “Major General.” ... The identity of the other handlers has not been provided, but India has accused elements within Pakistan’s intelligence service and the military of supporting the attack. The handler identified as “Major General” implies the involvement of a current or former military officer. The Inter-Service Intelligence agency is a branch of the Pakistani military. The ISI chief and Army corps commanders achieve the rank of Major General or Lieutenant General.

A senior US military intelligence official familiar with the dossier said that the "Major General" is indeed Hamid Gul, the retired former chief of the ISI. "It's Gul," the official told The Long War Journal. "This is why the US is trying to get him on the UN list of terrorists." In December 2008 the US attempted to get Hamid Gul and other former military and intelligence officials added to the UN list of designated terrorists but has so far been rebuffed.

The Pakistan-based handlers provided real-time intelligence and directed the terrorists to killed specific hostages.

CNN's Fareed Zakaria interviews an expert who claims otherwise:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hwVoY4Ft5I

Oh look - that expert happens to be Hamid Gul as well. A man who carries out terror attacks, and also helps news media to analyze them. Gee, talk about a full-service complete package deal. Who could ask for more? :P

"And now for a word from our correspondent in Afghanistan... over to you, Osama..."

Posted by: sanman at January 8, 2009 10:04 PM

Shhh !! I'll help GUARDIAN that secret..

Posted by: Ummah Gummah at January 8, 2009 10:07 PM

You know what absolutely baffles *me*?

I have an Italo-Australian friend who has a very, very traditionally Italian attitude toward Islam. Her views on that subject differ little from those of Oriana Fallaci.

And yet...she has flabbergasted me, by singing paeans to...Obama!!! She was overjoyed by his election!

I can only conclude that the pro-Obama propaganda sucked even her in...she, of all people, to whom I owe my introduction to Jacques Ellul, the master deconstructer of propaganda.

I suppose she *did* watch - and believe! - 'Power of Nightmares', that piece of BBC spin which was comprehensively smashed by the London bus and train bombings.

Can anyone suggest how I might gently try to free her from her Obama-worship?

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at January 8, 2009 10:09 PM

Obama didn't sit in Jeremiah Wright's church for 20 years without being infected with Wright's ideology. If Obama is willing to talk to Hamas, at any level, it's because he thinks Hamas is a misunderstood victime of Israeli/American/White/Western aggression, and all it'll take is sympathy and Obama charm to brimg them around to a recognition and peace with israel. It'll never accure to him that there might be a theological component to the Hamas problem.

Someone had better tell Obama that he won't be dealing with a lot of star-struck voters in the U.S. He'll be dealing with people who aren't the slightest bit infatuated with his smooth speeches or "change you can believe in" mantra. They'll dance rings around him, besides making a bundle of American tax-payers money, Which Hamas will use to consolidate is position in Gaza, and turn on us when the time is right.

Posted by: rational at January 8, 2009 10:14 PM

I'M SURE THE USA CHEQUE BOOK WILL BE AT THE READY.

Posted by: Mr.Fitnah at January 8, 2009 10:18 PM

Funny, I read this article, then went over to Diana West's site and noticed a picture of protesters in Belgium carrying a "Jihad, Yes We Can" banner:
http://www.dianawest.net/Home/tabid/36/EntryId/694/-Gaza-in-Belgium.aspx

You can't make this stuff up.

Posted by: 17_9_1787 at January 8, 2009 10:51 PM

I thought I'd post this one, though it's not strictly on topic, because I thought it was important - the UN have capitulated again and voted for an immediate ceasefire and withdrawal:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/01/09/2462423.htm

The vote passed with 13/14 votes, with America abstaining.

Cowards.

Posted by: jason at January 8, 2009 11:03 PM

Obama's going to get rolled by the tyrants of the earth. He's also clueless where the economy is concerned. Not a very good judge of people either. It's almost as though he seems determined to learn nothing from history. I have little doubt Winston Churchill would think him a fool. Obama's only chance of being a solid President is if he doesn't do what he has said he's going to do. And there's not much chance of that. Only thing I'm really not certain of is whether he's going to be bad or really bad, below average or a disaster. Time will tell.

Posted by: Wellington at January 8, 2009 11:08 PM

Obama should prepare to talk himself blue if he wants to talk to Hamas.

And why do people like uttering "multilateral peace talks" and other things like this? Multilateral or not, talking won't work with Hamas.

Posted by: efoc at January 8, 2009 11:17 PM

"Can anyone suggest how I might gently try to free her from her Obama-worship?"

LOL-DDA, don't worry, I think he'll be doing that himself and quite soon too!

But- I AM excited about Hillary Clinton becoming Secy of State next Tuesday. She's a tough bird and loyal to her Jewish fan base. I really hope she's the one to steer Obama through some of the quagmire of foreign politics. And I think he knows it too! That's why he chose Hillary.

Posted by: lorfalcon at January 8, 2009 11:27 PM

Hi Folks,,

I just got back from the Israel support rally here in FREEZING Ottawa.

We were not allowed to bring in cameras,, so I didn't get pics. They had metal detectors at the entrance and scanned people as they came in. There was a police presence,, marked and unmarked cars, and they had men inside discretely placed throughout the Jewish Centre.

They supplied flags, and some documentation. The hall seats around 500 people,, and there were another 200 at least,, standing room only, the place was packed.

There were no hamas supporters, they would not have been allowed into the hall. The people were beautiful, friendly and smiled at me when I made eye contact and smiled at them.

I felt welcome in their space, and I sat one row from the front.

The Honourable John Baird,, one of our Conservative Ministers was a speaker,, and I am so happy I voted for him in my riding! This man,, knows the truth,, he get's it.

He said,, imagine,, if what was happening in Sderot, was happening here in Ottawa, or anywhere else in our towns and cities. He really showed the audience,, that Canada and the Conservative Government,, stands with Israel.

And it WAS GREAT,, he gave the NDP hell,, for not supporting Israel. But of course,, the NDP, has radical islamists in it,, so,, they are a lOST CAUSE!!

He got a standing ovation, was a great speech!

I was very impressed, when Her Excellency Miriam Ziv,, Israel's Ambassador to Canada presented her speech. She was a facinating speaker,, and I learned alot,, from what she said. She also got a standing ovation.

There were other speakers,, Barbara Farber, she is President of the UIA Federations Canada.

They had a man named Marty Davis, in Ashkelon, who came online, in teleconference and video ,and he was telling us,, how unbearable day to day life, is,, year after year,, all they want is PEACE!!!

I felt like crying afew times,, when they showed a video,, of day to day life,, in Nagev, a town, that since 2001,, has seen 10,000 hamas rockets.

I am glad I went, I even chatted with some VERY cute cops,, after,, and asked them,, what the hell are we going to do, was interesting.

Even though the reason we all were there,, is so sad,, tragic, and just INSANE,, the vibes of the room,, was,, LOVE, BEAUTY, WHITE and POSITIVE, and LIFE AFFIRMING!!

And class,, these beautiful shiny people,, I had the honour of being with,, are total class, dignity,, and just really ADVANCED Civilizational Human Beings.

And the kids were adorable,, and were so well behaved,, unusual for young children to have attention spans at all. And these kids, sat straight up in their chairs, and listened quietly to the whole thing.

I say KUDOS,, to the Parents of these young Canadians,, they will be amazing adults when these kids grow up!

namaste

)0(
solsticewitch13

Posted by: solsticewitch13 at January 8, 2009 11:44 PM

This one really is WRENCHING my stomach.

In the TEETER-TOTTER World of emotions going through Americans on the eve of Obama's Inaugaration,it's HIGH HOPES VS WORST FEARS.

This 'Leak' to a British paper will BRING OUT the WORST FEARS of those who were AFRAID of something like this.

Posted by: CHOI at January 8, 2009 11:45 PM

Lorfalcon,

If you look through December's archive you'll see a rather good post. Go back to December 18th and the article entitled "Bill Clinton: Bought and paid for". You'll also see some exceptionally interesting links from posters within. I found the links by No_Mooselimbs(December 18, 2008 6:34 PM) to be interesting along with everything people had to say.

I don't find it exciting at all that another Clinton is in the Power, let alone Democrats. The whole election was a freak show. Choose a Black man or a woman as a first. Obama was chosen for his colour and America will reap the harvest of misery they've sewn.
I am by no means racist as many know, but Obama is.

The only thing that would excite me about the Democrats would be to watch them fail miserably, Obama resigning, Hilary taking over and another Election taking place early. Oh wait a minute I;m thinking of NuLabour here in the UK....wait a minute am I or aren't I?

Posted by: Richard the Lionheart at January 8, 2009 11:57 PM

No one should get too excited about Hillary Clinton becoming Secretary of State. She's a woman who has almost non-interruptedly exercised bad judgment, anything from the Whitewater and Castle Grande real estate ventures while still in Arkansas, to the health care fiasco she presided over in the first two years of her husband's Presidency, to advising him not to settle with Paula Jones out of court (that led to his impeachment eventually), to her very badly managed Presidential run last year and much more. She has achieved nothing on her own and has acquired everything through her husband (does anyone seriously believe she could have been elected Senator from New York but for who her husband was?). She's also deeply, extensively mendacious, as evidenced by such episodes as the travel office firings, the Rose Law Firm billing records' mysterious disappearance and reappearance, how she got the name "Hillary" and, of course, all that sniper fire she was dodging in the Balkans. In fact, what the hell has she ever done which is noble or virtuous or even competent? She's a big nothing posing as a big something. Oh yeah, almost forgot that kissy face/huggy bear incident with Suha Arafat right after Suha lied through her teeth about Israeli/Palestinian relations. Hillary for Secretary of State? Sorry, I'll pass.

Posted by: Wellington at January 9, 2009 12:03 AM

RTL-I'll check out the archives, but I am a GIGA-BIG Hillary fan. I would've voted for her in a heartbeat. I did NOT vote for Obama. I really do feel a little more secure with her in the White House.

And-I know all too well that Bill Clinton is a bought-man. But Hillary... Well... Hillary is her OWN MAN!! lol....

A little off-topic. A lot of people in the States didn't vote for McCain because they were afraid he'd die of cancer. But I would point out that if Obama was assassinated, then Biden, a really really old man would be taken over. They'd look at me all fuzzy-eyed and drooling. Obama is perceived as the golden boy messiah. I can't wait till he gets it all wrong!!

Well-if Obama does talk to hamas. I am going to issue out new bumperstickers for sale. They will read:

OBAMA BIN BIDEN = THE NEW OSAMA BIN LADEN
USA'S GOLDEN BOY TERRORIST IN LEAGUE WITH HAMAS!!!

Posted by: lorfalcon at January 9, 2009 12:11 AM

Wellington... lol... I see you're another Hillary fan... lol.. Seriously though, what politician isn't mendacious? Haven't heard of or seen a single one in all my years. She's just been playing big boy games in the big league. I admire her for that. She's got chutzpah, even if she's just another mendacious politician.

Hillary became a New York senator because she was voted into that post by an overwhelming majority of New York City folks. It had nothing to do with her lousy shifty husband. And no, New Yorkers aren't that fond of Billy-Bob...

I agree that her campaign was badly managed. In fact, I thought that she was being much too greedy and went for the finish line way too fast. It was too soon for a woman president and Hillary should had the foresight to know that. If she had waited another decade, maybe then...

Posted by: lorfalcon at January 9, 2009 12:28 AM

lorfalcon: I have enjoyed many of your posts and we see eye to eye on the menace which is Islam, but I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter of Hillary Rodham Clinton. I must insist, though, had she been simply Hillary Rodham and not HRC she would have never been elected Senator. Something else here is that Lazio was a Johnny-come-lately candidate after Giuliani declined to run and he didn't conduct a good campaign against her. Also, as Bill O'Reilly has pointed out many times, you don't excuse bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior. Hillary is a serial liar and a crook (take a particularly close look at the Castle Grande real estate fraud if you really want to see just how vile she is; it's even worse than Whitewater). I've had my fill of her and that husband of hers as well.

Posted by: Wellington at January 9, 2009 12:43 AM

"A great many people in Official Washington, in both parties, and all over the place, are ignorant of Islam. And a great many such people are stupid. But I can't believe they are quite that ignorant, and that stupid."

Posted by: Hugh

I can, Hugh. At least I can believe that there enough of them that are ignorant and stupid enough to do us all a great deal of damage. To prove my point, just look at the hash they've made of our country in the last 40 years. "Affirmative action" has created half a dozen specially-privileged minorities; "freedom of choice" has led to over a million abortions/year; the "Great Society" hand-outs destroyed families and subsidized out-of-wedlock births, so that despite all the abortions, 3 out of 4 births among blacks, and over 1 out of 4 among whites, are out-of-wedlock. (And this is in a country where, 70 years ago, 90-95% of births were legitimate, with blacks having a slightly higher percentage than whites.) We have consistently degraded our military strength, to the point that even the small forces we have deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan can be managed only be calling up the Reserve and the Guard; and have refused to create any missile defense system, despite the proliferation of rogue regimes with both atomic weapons and long-range missiles. Our public education system is a laughing-stock: most of our kids know how to put on a condom; but all they know of Thomas Jefferson is that he had a black slave girl for a mistress.
I can believe it: official Washington has plenty of stupid and ignorant people; they've been there for 40+ years, they're still there, and with BHO's administration, there are going to be even more of them.

Posted by: ebonystone at January 9, 2009 12:44 AM

Some of the most vocal proponents of the anti-Jihad on these pages (you know who you are) were swearing during the election that the Dems could be no worse than Bush in dealing with the Muslims....and here we have it, before Obama has been even sworn in, he's preparing to reverse the Bush policy of isolating Hamas and legitimize their control of Gaza.

And we ain't seen nothing yet, folks.

Posted by: Cornelius at January 9, 2009 12:45 AM

As for Bill Clinton being bought and paid for, he sure ain't the only one:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l176/musiclover1992/BushSaudiKing.jpg

But he sure takes a lot more fire for it than King Abdullah's Best Friend Forever.

Posted by: Proud_Kafir7908 at January 9, 2009 1:08 AM

Wellington, hmmm... Now that you brought up Giuliani. It was speculated that he didn't want to run for senator because of his nasty divorce and adulterous affair with his now current wife. But I think it was because he was considering running for president. In fact, I think we may see him pop up in four years. Giuliani has always described himself as "a Republican dressed as a Democrat dressed as a Republican dressed as a Democrat as a..." If any Republican could wrest the White House from the Golden boy, I think it's him.

And I am NOT excusing any bad behaviour by Hillary, it's just that I don't feel it's fair she is always held up to a different standard because she is a woman. Albeit, a mendacious politico woman. I just happen to think she's yet another shark in the shark tank.

And you may reserve the right to call her a liar and a crook, but that puts her right in league with the last almost 60 years of presidents in the USA. Well, excepting for that dhim-witted Carter of course.

Posted by: lorfalcon at January 9, 2009 1:09 AM

It'll never accure [sic] to him that there might be a theological component to the Hamas problem.

Someone had better tell Obama that he won't be dealing with a lot of star-struck voters in the U.S. He'll be dealing with people who aren't the slightest bit infatuated with his smooth speeches or "change you can believe in" mantra. They'll dance rings around him, besides making a bundle of American tax-payers money, Which Hamas will use to consolidate is position in Gaza, and turn on us when the time is right.

Posted by: rational at January 8, 2009 10:14 PM

---

Uh, it might be advised to remember that Obama was born a moslem and attended madrassa in Indonesia.

Posted by: Ummah Gummah at January 9, 2009 1:12 AM

Proud Kaffir-I LOVED that picture! It was hysterical the kissy face thing between the two wanna-be men. Ugh.. And Condy with her Bandir right next to her giving her the once over. What a happy family. Blech! I've got to go rinse my eyeballs now, thank you very much!!! lol....

Posted by: lorfalcon at January 9, 2009 1:36 AM

Solstice Witch, Thank you for your post! It looked like a grand time was had by all! Mazel Tov!!!

Posted by: lorfalcon at January 9, 2009 1:38 AM

I tell you, Lorfalcon... We all know that politicians in both the Democratic and Republican parties are guilty of such sins/acts of treason; but it seems to me that Democrats get trounced a lot harder than Republicans for that (and I don't mean to say that anyone should get a pass on it.)

Republicans can even get away with protecting their Saudi buddies' interests by claiming to be fighting for the average working Joes and Janes when they reject the idea of higher gas taxes, which Hugh has repeatedly argued for as part of what could wean America from Middle-Eastern oil.

But, again, if higher gas taxes were even to be considered by those who could impose them, the MSM would never allow Hugh's case to be thoroughly made to the American public. We'd only hear about how mad those tax-and-spend "lib'ruls" are to even think about it (though there's absolutely nothing liberal about the purpose of that particular kind of tax hike.) And the flow of dollars for Da'wa, mosque-building in the West and jihad would keep going to the Middle East at its usual pace.

Posted by: Proud_Kafir7908 at January 9, 2009 3:04 AM

The spirit of Chamberlame lives on!!

The dark shadow of the Moronic Plague sweeps over the Dhimmiland.
It's time for sackcloth and ashes folks.

I keep saying this but it bears repeating. This clash is the fulfillment of prophecy.

Dan 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Iron is symbolic of Rome, or the West. And this verse from my namesake, the prophet Daniel, is describing the last days.

Am Yisrael Chai!
Dani' El

Posted by: Dani'El at January 9, 2009 3:19 AM

DDA, like Bush Derangement Syndrome, there seems to be no cure for Drooling-Obama-Messianic Idiocy Syndrome. Oh, except for time, inevitability, and many "I told you sos."

This is bizarre and rather telling. He did not say that he would talk to Hezbollah, thereby proving, at least to me, that he is indeed an Islamic Manchurian Candidate by not giving the Shi'ites equal opportunity. Iran is different because they're a nation. He chose Hamas over Hezbollah. He's a real Muslim and he has his loyalties.

Also, there may very well not be a Hamas in 11 days.

As Hillary, I think she was alright on domestic issues, so of course Obama puts her in charge of foreign policy, where I disagree with everything she stands for. She was semi-tough (more so than McCain) on immigration and national security.

Lorfalcon wrote:

Giuliani has always described himself as "a Republican dressed as a Democrat dressed as a Republican dressed as a Democrat as a..."

Giuliani just likes to play dress-up.

Posted by: jdamn at January 9, 2009 3:50 AM

Quit the Obama bashing - he is not even in office yet and the right is already wailing.

And I want to remind that there are also staunch Israel allies, like myself, who are also democrats.

So, be careful to not bite your own constituency here.

Talking with someone does not mean you will agree with him or her. And it does not mean that you will be any less tough. Wait and see.

Posted by: bonncaruso at January 9, 2009 3:55 AM

You could do something through the Europeans.

I have only one name for this: Mutual incompetence

Posted by: Henrik at January 9, 2009 4:18 AM

No Idea why he is so keen on talking, when guns and missiles are already talking. You cant just start talking with terrorist who are responsible for holding the world to ransom.

Posted by: Ekawaaz at January 9, 2009 4:41 AM

Bonncaruso, just to add a little more to what you wrote, there's one factor in this whole equation that hasn't been mentioned ONCE on this thread: Rahm Emanuel.

He is not going to go along with any possible suicidal, dhimmi-carterish initiatives on Israel, or be quiet about them.

Posted by: Proud_Kafir7908 at January 9, 2009 5:02 AM

Proud Kafir,
I think you're in for a surprise from Emmanuel.
He's on the same team as Kissinger, building the New World Order.
He's only a front and he'll blow his cover soon.

These are the "Jews who lie and are not".

Don't buy that lie.

Am Yisrael Chai!
Dani' El
The Messianic Jew

Posted by: Dani'El at January 9, 2009 5:21 AM

Here's a counterprotest in San Francisco tomorrow.

-----------------------------------------
Upcoming Event: January 10, 2009 - SF VOICE FOR ISRAEL TO COUNTER: "WRONG ANSWER's ANTI-ISRAEL DEMONSTRATION"
Date & Time: Saturday - January 10, 2009 at 11am
Location: San Francisco at the Civic Center Plaza (we will gather on Polk between Larkin and McAllister Sts, directly in front of City Hall)
Description: Once again, the streets of the Bay Area are filled with hate when Israel defends itself. International ANSWER and other anti-Israel groups in the area are claiming Israel's actions in Gaza are "genocide" . Groups protesting against Israel last week chanted "Itbach al Yahud" (slaughter the Jews) and "Falastin balad'na w'al Yahud qalab'na" (Palestine is our land and the Jews are our dogs), clear anti-Semitic hate speech.

The groups sponsoring these demonstrations demonize Israel, endorse Israel's destruction, and justify the terrorist acts against Israel that caused the current situation. In particular, International ANSWER is the group that forced its own racist, anti-Semitic propaganda on those who wanted to march just to oppose the war in Iraq. While SF Voice for Israel takes no position on the Iraq war, we oppose ANSWER's manipulation of the antiwar movement and its demonization of Israel. Previous ANSWER demonstrations have been notable for vicious anti-Israel, anti-Semitic and pro-terror signs, speakers and chants.

San Francisco Voice for Israel/Stand With Us will stand against the anti-Israel/ pro-terrorism voices. Our presence at these events has proven highly effective at countering their message and making sure that the anti-Israel activists can not push their propaganda on the public unopposed! In addition, when the local media cover these demonstrations, they always film our presence so that the public can see that supporters of Israel are willing to stand up for the truth. (Those of you who were there with us last week even had your presence noted on CNN!).

We know that many in our community will be unable to join us because this is on Shabbat. While we will never schedule our own events on Shabbat, we are standing up against the anti-Israel hate groups that usually schedule their protests for Saturdays, specifically to try to minimize the Jewish community response.

We will meet at 11 AM and stay until ANSWER leaves Civic Center Plaza to march through the streets. We do not encourage anyone to march near them in counterprotest once they leave the Civic Center area, as we cannot assure adequate police protection should elements in their rally decide to start a rampage.

Please bring your noisemakers, flags, and signs, AND please wear BLUE and WHITE. As always, feel free to make your own signs but please no signs or graphics offensive to any racial or ethnic group including but not limited to Arabs, Islam, or Palestinians in general. Signs in violation of our policies will not be allowed.

Demand an end to Palestinian rocket attacks against Israeli civilians! Demand Cpl. Gilad Shalit be returned home safely!
Demand Hamas put an end to terror attacks!
Demand an end to the deligitimization and demonization of Israel!
Demand that Hamas choose peace so that the Palestinian people can have a future!
San Francisco Voice for Israel/Stand With Us
www.SFVoiceForIsrael.org
www.StandWithUs.com

For further information or questions: e-mail us at sfvoiceforisrael@ yahoo.com

Join the SF Voice For Israel group on Facebook!

Posted by: Dani'El at January 9, 2009 7:02 AM

As a democrat who is pro-Israel and an avid-Jihad Watch reader, I'm with Bonncaruso on this one. I think it's really important that Jihad Watch not be considered an exclusive community of conservatives and/or Obama haters. I find the Obama bin Biden references offensive.

Posted by: a2slb at January 9, 2009 7:16 AM

l cannot believe that any Democrat who is pro Israel would vote for BO? you need to look at his past, look at the people who he hung around with ie his paster of twenty years, and his current people of which many were and are anti Israel, anti US! BO has never run or operated a company, no experience in the real world. He got into univ. through sowdi friends, and sowdi money. l guess to some people he will fit in real well with the clinton holdovers he has brought with him to the White House.

Posted by: ZenaWarriorPrincess at January 9, 2009 7:30 AM

The Hamas Charter plainly states its intentions and its position on any possibility of peace.

Posted by: Always On Watch at January 9, 2009 7:48 AM

I find the Obama bin Biden references offensive.

Posted by: a2slb at January 9, 2009 7:16 AM

OMG! OFFENDED??

Okay, stop the planet! EVERYBODY OFF! SHUTDOWN EVERYTHING; PACK IT ALL UP AND GO HOME!

Someone is OFFENDED!

Last one off please turn out the piggy-tailed light bulbs -- keep those carbon footprints to minimal while we're at it!

Good GAWD! GET OVER YOURSELF!

Posted by: witness at January 9, 2009 9:14 AM

a2slb,

Check Obama's past and who he was linked to. I will mention the names Reverend Jeremiah Wright and a one Minister Louis Farrakhan.
If you are white then voting for Obama would be like a black man voting for the KKK.

Obama is going to completely destroy your country the same as Blair has destroyed the UK.

One thing that really amazes me about American's(not all but many) is the amount of bullsh*t you believe from your Politicians!
I'm not saying we're any better, but the apathy shown in the UK, shows just what many of us think of our Politicians. It's not a case that people don't want to vote. It's a case that many people feel there is no one to really vote for!

Honestly, the American Election process is all about money and power and control and the worst people in power are those that crave it. The last people we should give power over us are those that want it!

BHO, will literally destroy the USA. I guarantee that if he survives his first term in office and manages a second one, you will be voting for the Republicans next time around. Why? Well, Tony Blair and Brown, here in the UK have made die hard Labourites leave their party they've voted for many years for and change to their 'auld' enemy the Conservatives. Some in fact are leaving to support the BNP.

Trust me, Obama will utterly destroy your country and Islamisation will rapidly move towards endgame while he's in power. Anyone remotely interested in Islamisation in the USA would not have voted in Obama. It's really that simple. The name should be the biggest clue as to why not!

Posted by: Richard the Lionheart at January 9, 2009 9:40 AM

The incoming Obama administration is prepared to abandon President Bush's doctrine of isolating Hamas by establishing a channel to the Islamist organisation, sources close to the transition team say.

The move to open contacts with Hamas - which could be initiated through the US intelligence services - would represent a definitive break with the Bush presidency's ostracising of the group.

Aside from acting as an agent for Israel, just what do we talk to Hamas about?

Do they need bail out money too or should we give them jobs that Americans don't want or are too damned stupid to do?

Should we arm them and train them?

Should be give them more trade opportunities in the West?

Just what the hell should we be talking with them about that is of benefit to the US -- outside of our support of Israel?

Perhaps Hamas can give us a warm water navel base if we export jobs over to Gaza so they can control the assests?

Maybe we can build a giant airbase for them through Halliburton and supply Hamas with fighters and train their pilots so the US can have ... what exactly?

No suicide bombers?

Is that all we get in this exchange?

If we are making "deals" with Hamas than we might as well start making deals with every street gang or prison criminal group that exists.

Let Israel take the bastards out already!

Posted by: witness at January 9, 2009 9:54 AM

, you will be voting for the Republicans next time around.

Yes, most Americans are that stupid!

Tell you a dirty little secret -- the neo-cons, Republicans, or Democrates are all working toward the same end -- destroying America from within.

One plays the "BAD COP," the other plays the "GOOD COP" and the stupid, moronic voters NEVER catch on to the game!

Ask the average American on the street today who the current Secretary of State is and they won't have a clue! Ask them the Secretary of State does, they have NO idea!

Ask most Americans exactly what change BO will bring and they will answer "change!" Ask them "what change" and they will answer "dunno, but it's got to be better than what we got now."

Ask most Americans on the street exactly what policies of Barry, or Barack, or whatever the hell his name is -- that they agree with -- and they can't name one single damned policy!

You think I'm kidding??? Try it for yourself on any street in America!

To say that the average American voter is stupid is an INSULT!

(to stupid people everywhere who are probably more on the ball on what is going on in their world than the typical American is in theirs!)

Posted by: witness at January 9, 2009 10:10 AM

'The Prophet Elect Obama's (PBUH) reign will last one year or less'...

His ability to make people 'nervous' is now spreading to...Democrats...One year max...

And just what is the golden throated oracle of America going to say to Hamas? That is, the one or two leaders left by the time The Prophet O (PBUH) takes office.

'Can't we all just get along'?...

I'm sorry, but I don't think Rodney King was a Mohammadan, so he did not have Islam on his mind when he said that.

Hamas is not going to 'get along', now or ever, and there is nothing to offer but money. If you offer Islam a carrot on a stick, they will eat the carrot, break the stick in half and stab you with it's sharp point.

Thats what talking and appeasing gets you.

The Prophet Obama (PBUH) is going to fail big time, but that's ok, the American taxpayer will pay the bill...And Israel will continue mopping up...

Posted by: duh_swami at January 9, 2009 10:13 AM

>>Solstice Witch, Thank you for your post! It looked like a grand time was had by all! Mazel Tov!!!

Posted by: lorfalcon

Posted by: solsticewitch13 at January 9, 2009 10:16 AM

I don't think the Republicans can get things right.

Obama has announced a radical increase of US federal debt. That's not good. Only Clinton had the guts to keep the budget under control, and we need more of that.

Just imagine the chaos that would come about if the federal government had to default on its debt...

Posted by: Henrik at January 9, 2009 10:16 AM

Witness: Ask most Americans on the street exactly what policies of Barry, or Barack, or whatever the hell his name is -- that they agree with -- and they can't name one single damned policy!

I agree. It might be an interesting experiment to
go to the mart with a clipboard and pen, and ask that of people going in or out. A few hours would be enough...I would repeat the experiment at a local grocery store known to be frequented by old hippies, liberals, and radical leftists.

Then compare the results...might be fodder for an article...

Posted by: duh_swami at January 9, 2009 10:22 AM

>>Solstice Witch, Thank you for your post! It looked like a grand time was had by all! Mazel Tov!!!

Posted by: lorfalcon
>>>

Wow,, type pad is doing weird things to me, today.

Trying again,, apologies for double post.

Hi lorfalcon!

You are very welcome, it was a really nice evening even though the reason we all gathered together was UGLY and hateful.

They told us, last night that huge support rallys are planned in cities all across Canada, so if I get dates and times, I'll post them here.

Heyyy!

Love your sig,, Falcons are my favourite Raptor. Peregrins ROCK! I have a family of Merlin Falcons who visit me. They brought 3 kids last year. I would make their keekeekee call and Mom and one kid,, would fly to me, and almost land on my ungloved arm (I wasn't prepared). I am hoping, this year,, to call MOM to my GLOVED arm. They are facinated about me and my parrots and visit for 3 months every year. They wanna eat my birds, so when they arrive, I don't take my parrots outside, and every squirrel in the neighbourhood disappears! I have about 3 GB worth of pics and video of the Falco family, and I miss them, look forward to our reunion, this summer. They took over a crows nest in a tall pine, beside my backyard, LOL from this tree, they see my birds in their bird room clearly through the window, I keep my dragon's blinds shut, when the Falco family arrives,, GRIN!!!

solsticewitch13

Posted by: solsticewitch13 at January 9, 2009 10:27 AM

Witness,

I'm a Brit as you know. I also like to keep in tune with American Politics and I agree fully with your post.
If I were an American, I'd be voting for a nationalist party that had the interests of Americans first before anyone else.
I agree with the Good Cop and the Bad Cop analogy. It's exactly the same here with NuLabour and the Conservatives. These two got fat on the slurry of Political power a long time ago and have forgotten every reason that they are elected into power. Instead of them being there to be controlled by the electorate and do their wishes, they have done the exact opposite. They have forgotten why Parliament was created in the first place and why the English Civil War happened. They are a disgrace to their political ancestors who fought to uphold the will of the people and they have become like the very Kings and Lords whom they opposed.
Nationalism is the only ideology really that can save us from Islamisation and not only that but preserve, not just our own but other cultures around the globe. Many people are so wrong about Nationalism for the simple reason that the Left and in fact the right have continually sullied and lambasted them in order to stop them from gaining power again. They forget that all the great wars were defended by Nationalism. They also know that Nationalism is the only ideology that will continue to oppose the assimilation of all cultures and races into one. This is what is unique about Nationalism in its respect for other cultures, races and ideologies to exist. Nationalism also doesn't tend to get involved in other country's affairs unless the resulting outcome of that country poses a problem for their one.
Nationalism teaches people Integrity, respect and honour as well as love for fellow human beings. It also teaches us that we are all human beings but also animals and that anywhere in this world the 'beast' will always be released at some point within the individual.

Posted by: Richard the Lionheart at January 9, 2009 10:33 AM

'A tested course would be to start contacts through Hamas and the US intelligence services - similar to the secret process through which the US engaged with the PLO in the 1970s.'

And look what that begat. Quite likely the problem would not have reached this stage (Hamas) had the US not interfered then.

We should have left Israel to deal with it in their own way. Guess we'll never learn.

Posted by: Vee at January 9, 2009 10:57 AM

A few hours would be enough...I would repeat the experiment at a local grocery store known to be frequented by old hippies, liberals, and radical leftists.

Then compare the results...might be fodder for an article...

Posted by: duh_swami at January 9, 2009 10:22 AM

Careful! That might skew the result ... you have to find ONE person at least who has a clue or no one will believe you!

Nationalism teaches people Integrity, respect and honour as well as love for fellow human beings. It also teaches us that we are all human beings but also animals and that anywhere in this world the 'beast' will always be released at some point within the individual.

Posted by: Richard the Lionheart at January 9, 2009 10:33 AM

I love the British when they are being BRITISH!

LONG LIVE ENGLAND -- the REAL England with REAL Englishmen and women that is!

Posted by: witness at January 9, 2009 11:59 AM

lorfalcon: I believe the specific and immediate reason Giuliani dropped out of the New York Senatorial race was that he was dealing with prostate cancer at the time. Something else that is far more important and that is your lumping Hillary with all Presidents over the past sixty years (minus Carter) respecting the inclination to lie. Lorfalcon, I find it shameful that you would put in the same company with Presidents Truman, Eisenhower, Reagan and several other chief executives that poor excuse for a human being, Hillary Clinton. These men were so far above Hillary Clinton in virtue that it is laughable (and pathetic) to see attempts to drag these good men down to the level of either Clinton. I'll give you Nixon and LBJ, and Bill Clinton of course, but when you pull down into the mud a name like Dwight David Eisenhower, who served his country nobly and magnificently in war and peace, just as George Washington did, then I know desperation has set in and a dearth of reasoning has temporarily afflicted you (also, Hillary wasn't treated more harshly becuase she was a woman; that's just crybaby stuff). Still, I like your posts and we're on the same page with Islam. Let's leave it at that.

Posted by: Wellington at January 9, 2009 12:27 PM

I'll give you Nixon and LBJ, and Bill Clinton of course, but when you pull down into the mud a name like Dwight David Eisenhower, who served his country nobly and magnificently in war and peace, just as George Washington did...

Lot's of people diefy Reagan but I didn't like him frankly -- for reasons that are personal. Other than that -- well take him or leave him in my book.

In any case the clintons are bottom-feeders by any calculus.

Eisenhower was a great general, but a lousey President; but I applaud his last speech about the military-industrial complex. We should have listened to him!

Truman was a great President because he came into chaos; assessed the situation as best he could; and got the job done! The War Ended! Period!

These two men were the last truly "American Presidents" we ever really had, but they were icons of a civilzation and a people with morals.

Nowadays, we have people with NO morals; NO values; NOTHING; and we have empty suits that represent the nothingness void which has become the "American people" for lack of a better term -- the modern "American people" are more like a mass of dross that is pushed from one side of the road to the other.

They deserve the BO's of the world -- may they get their fill and then some!

Posted by: witness at January 9, 2009 2:46 PM

witness: No serious historian any longer thinks of Eisenhower as anything but an exceptional President. He is now regularly ranked in the top ten of America's chief executives (so is Truman). The old idea that he was a nice man but not too smart and that America drifted in the 1950s under his watch has now been completely discredited. The revisionism began shortly after his death in 1969 when his diaries were released and it became readily apparent that he was on top of everything behind the scenes (which is the way he wanted it). He conducted both foreign and domestic policy with extraordinary deftness. Stephen Amborse in his definitive two-volume biography of Eisenhower ranked him as one of the three greatest Presidents of the twentieth century, the other two in his opinion being Wilson and FDR (and Ambrose was a Democrat). Paul Johnson in his classic work "Modern Times" provides a wonderful account of Eisenhower's exceptional skill as President. See pages 460-465 in Johnson's work for this subtle assessment of a very subtle and skillful man. Saying Eisnehower was a lousy President is now as dated as saying that Ulysses S. Grant was a butcher. Just as no serious Civil War historian even remotely buys into this canard anymore about Grant, so does no scholar any longer think of Eisenhower as a below average President. Quite the contrary, in fact, as I have already indicated above.

Posted by: Wellington at January 9, 2009 3:21 PM

The Factor on Fox News has a poll, asking if we want Obama to have success.

I find that to be a loaded question.

Posted by: Islofob IS-1 at January 9, 2009 4:13 PM

Saying Eisnehower was a lousy President is now as dated as saying that Ulysses S. Grant was a butcher

The fact that either of us knows to associate Eisenhower with the Presidency has dated us both!

Perhaps your right.

Posted by: witness at January 9, 2009 5:04 PM

A great many people in Official Washington, in both parties, and all over the place, are ignorant of Islam. And a great many such people are stupid. But I can't believe they are quite that ignorant, and that stupid.
Posted by: Hugh

Well, either that many people are just stupid, or you'll have to subscribe to a conspiracy theory. There's no third alternative.... or is there? Think.

Posted by: DenverRodeo at January 9, 2009 6:34 PM

How interesting--how many ways can Obama lie? Note that while campaigning, especially when talking to Jewish organizations, Obama stated "clearly" that he would NOT talk to Hamas since they're a "terrorist" group--now he's changing his mind--or rather, as I believe, he is doing what he always intended to do once he got 78% of the Jewish population to vote for him. When will we wake up and see the Left leaning Democratic party as anti-Israel...

Posted by: baseballmaven at January 9, 2009 6:39 PM

Well said, Wellington! Ike presided over a decade of peace and prosperity for the U.S. The decade that followed brought us a phony and a crook, who gave us the VietNam war and the Great Society, two disasters from which the U. S. has still not recovered.

Posted by: ebonystone at January 9, 2009 7:25 PM

solsticewitch13

Good job covering the event - you should consider a career in jounalism

Posted by: American at January 10, 2009 3:18 AM