Why a Christian church would sponsor a heathen Muslim speaker is beyond me. How can they have interfaith relations with a body of believers -- I won't even call them a religious body -- whose aim is to destroy every religious body? You get what you pay for. When you have Muslim speakers, you're going to get anti-Semitic speech.

Presently the speech is anti-semetic. However, Christians are considered to be a sect of Judaism by some Muslims. Thus, inviting a Muslim speaker to speak at a Christian church or fuction is to invite someone who hates, reviles, and wants to destroy you. When will Christian church leaders understand this?

Islam does not mean peace, it means submission. Athough to Allah, submission is compelled by bombs and guns. Recall the spectacle of the purity police in Afghanistan whipping women in the streets for not dressing appropriately (to their mind) and men for not having the appropriate beards, and the purity police in Saudi Arabia that drove girls back into a burning building because they tried to flee without wearing their abayas. Submit or die is the message for them and for us.

It is important that we keep an eye on those social outreach groups of the Christian Church that are trying to help solve the Middle East issue, and tell them to watch who they are dealing with. The Presbyterian Church claims this is an accident. The important thing is that we are fair in denouncing any hate crime group activities, regardless of whatever religion they are sponsored by.

The Presbysterian Peacemakers group is online at:
http://pcusa.org/peacemaking/

One of their representatives is Sarah Lisherness, and Sarah's email address is:
slishern@ctr.pcusa.org

You can post email online at their Web Site or email her directly.

"We regret that some in the audience may have been offended. "

"..calling for justice and the restoration of dignity and freedom for the Palestinian people; and advocating for an end to the Israeli occupation.."

This is one of the least sincere apologies I have seen. Some of the audience may have been offended by antisemitic presentations? In other words, they apologize to the Jews, but for everyone else, I guess it's ok.

And re: justice and dignity for Palestinians? Let's send her a picture of today's bus bombing.

The apology letter I received from the college was much more sincere.

I used to work in Customer Service. "We regret that you may have been offended by our actions" are weasel words used by companies when they want to look like they are apologizing without actually apologizing.

This is no apology; just contemptible weasel words put out by frightened dhimmies.

But don't blame the Presbyterians specifically; all Western "mainstream" churches are cringing dhimmies. The only ones who will stand up at all are the Eastern Orthodox (because they know better, having been "blessed" by Islam's presence for hundreds of years) and the evangelicals.

Susan,

The Eastern Orthodox church is still antisemitic. Blaming the Jews for Christ's death is part of the Holy Week liturgy. Sad, isn't it? Not to mention all the past pogroms in Russia.

In the U.S. antisemitism is not prevalent, not in the evangelical churches, but I just can't really say the same for the Eastern Orthodox church.

The same holds true for the Christians in the Middle East (Orthodox). Even though they've lived in dhimmitude for years, they are still more inclined to side with the Muslim Arabs than with the Jews.

The statement of apology is full of weasal words. None of us is all-powerful, but, each of has at least some power, some control over assets and facilities. Given that this "Peace" group has lent its name, its facilities and whatever institutional prestige the Presbyterian Church still has in America to this speaker. They had a responsibility to "vet" the speaker beforehand. This is directly analogous to Pilate's washing of the hands. They passively allowed this hatemonger to use their platform then act as if it had nothing to do with them, only some people who "might" be offended. All righteous and reasonable people should be offended.

This is a difficult and dangerous time.

In 2002 the Moderator of the Presbyterian Church was a certain Rev. Abu-Akel, from Atlanta, who takes a deep interest in promoting the false, but palatable, view of the Jihad against Israel, as an Infidel sovereignty, as simply a conflict "between two tiny peoples" -- in one fell swoop, dismissing the Jihad which is completely uninterested in borders, and reinforcing the recently-invented "Palestinian people" (a phrase never used, of course, prior to the defeat in 1967, after which it was felt something better than Shukairy's truthful, but unpalatable, "push the Jews into the sea" rhetoric would have to be changed). Zuheir Mohsein, leader of As Saiqa, put it more truthfully in an interview with James Dorsey in the Dutch paper Die Trouw: "There is no difference between Palestinians, Lebanese, Syrians, etc. We emphasize the Palestianian identity purely as a political weapon against the Zionists." (this is not verbatim, but from memory: readers may wish to google). The Presybterian Peace Fellowship is in up to its neck, like the related Holy Land Christian Ecumenical Foundation, in setting up a phony symmetry between Israel and its enemies, a symmetry which has no basis either in the size of the two sides (6 million vs. 300 million, 10,000 sq. km. versus 14 million sq. km, or more than 1,0000 times, no resources vs. trillions in oil wealth, etc.) nor in the aims (Israel wishes only to survive, the Muslim Arabs, with some "Christian friends," wish to eliminate it -- either at once, or in stages), is one more of those Christian groups utterly indifferent to theology, or even to Christianity, but mightily interested in promoting, above all other causes in the world, that of the "Palestinians." Such selective morality, such diseased sympathy, surely hints at a much more sinister ideological substratum, which one should have no difficulty in identifying. Christians who make excuses for Palestinian Arab behavior, who frame issues in in a highly tendentious and misleading way that obscures the JIhad, are objectively helping to promte the Islamic agenda and are not only dangerous to Israel, but to all non-Muslims everywhere. They need to be exposed, and stripped of the "Christian" garb they so cunningly drape themselves in. Not all Presbyterians can be happy with the situation; not all are taken in. I wonder myself at what would be the reaction of the Rev. Horace J. Underwood, my distant relative, who singlehandedly brought Presbyterianism to Korea (he was the founder of the Choson Christian College, now Yonsei University). He would be turning over in his grave.

Zork, I know that the Orthodox tend to be anti-Semitic but they also do not promote that "Islam means peace" b.s. either. I was also thinking specifically of the Assn. of Middle East Christians and Jews who have demonstrated against Islamization several times recently.

"..the Orthodox tend to be anti-Semitic but they also do not promote that "Islam means peace" b.s."

Good point :-)

They probably still remember Orthodox priests being lynched by Muslim mobs (as late as 1922).

It was an apology but not a very impressive one.

She is advocating a "peaceful negotiation" when history has shown that Palestine has never been interested in negotiating a solution which they would consider binding that would allow Israel to exist.

weasel words at best - Where is the real apology? calling a spade a spade and not a heart?
"We are the World!" just does not work with these people!
WAKE UP!!!

jihan

zork: I believe it was 1933 when the 100,000 Assyrians were murdered in Iraq, triggered by Britain's pull-out from that nation. Although I am not sure if the Assyrians consider themselves Orthodox or not.

Susan,

I was referring specifically to the dismemberment and murder of Metropolitan Bishop of Smyrna, Chrysostomos, by a Turkish Muslim mob in 1922.

Here's a link:

http://www.anemos.com/Diaspora/chrys/chrys_death.html#Voults

It just catches me by surprise that after all this time in dhimmitude, the Orthodox still don't get it. I saw on tv today Arafat's "Day of Rage" and there was at least one Orthodox priest marching with the crowds. I guess you can take the man out of the Caliphate, but you can't take the Caliphate out of the man, eh? :-)

there is also the tiny issue that the eastern orthodox church has a continuing fascination with communism -- and the communists have all but fully embraced the jihadists as comrades in the struggle against america.

I know someone who is an active member of this "peace" group, and I can promise you they're NOT about "peace," but about subverting American and Western values and interests. All the pretty words and the churchy address don't mean a thing: I know for a fact that he is ardently infatuated with every anti-American, anti-Western cause there is. He traveled to Communist Russia and actually believes that it's a bad thing that the Soviet Union fell! He urges me to write my Congressional reps to cut off all support for Israel. The first thing he did on 9-11 was to start networking to protest any military (or non-military, for that matter) reprisals on America's part. Gee, wouldn't you expect a religious organization's first concern would be for the innocent victims and their families? But no.... only if the "victims" are Palestinian or Baathist or Talib or members of some other radical, evil, imperialistic, hateful Islamic gang. He believes quite fervently that the U. S. should be subservient and subordinate to the United Nation. He even believes that our children's education should emphasize "conflict-solving skills" over reading, math and science! BTW - he is an "educator." Scary, isn't it?

It doesn't surprise me that PCUSA has sponsored this guy: it surprises me that they haven't done much worse. Maybe they have, but it doesn't get out because their Muslim speakers only denounce Christians, which PCUSA would have a hard time complaining about, and which most of the mainstream media would utterly ignore, anyway, in natural, unconscious collusion.

I'd like to know if this "peace" group has ever asked Arafat and his cronies to stop sending attackers to Israel? Wouldn't that be fair? Betcha they wouldn't consider it! Do you suppose they ever implored Saddaam to comply with the UN so the sanctions would be lifted? No! They blamed the sanctions on the U.S.! That's like blaming a parent for standing a kid in the corner as punishment, without ever considering that the kid probably did something to deserve it! Whose fault were the sanctions? Saddaam's!

It completely defies common sense. Seems to me that if you have someone encouraging people to strap on bombs to become human murder machines, you'd address them before you'd complain that the victims brought it on themselves, and that if they'd just quit making those bombers so unhappy... Though this man I know from PCUSA's "peace" group would be the first to say that I am just over-simplistic about these things, or not a "real" Christian, or that I have been brainwashed by Evil Corporations who benefit financially from the oppression of the Poor Little Native Peoples Everywhere. Oh yeah, I forgot: I also think the bombers are the Bad Guys because I'm from the South, or so he says.

Yes, he IS a grown man who has an IQ high enough to get a driver's license! Amazing, isn't it?

They keep telling the Big Lie, hoping that its endless, mindless repetition will convince the unwashed masses. The cacophony from them and their anti-American peers is practically deafening, and has reached a hysterical pitch between them all.

If only it wouldn't hurt the rest of us so badly, I'd like for them to get their wishes, and see what the REAL result would be! They would be so richly deserving.

Presbyterians of a more thoughtful persuasion (i.e., those who realize, from the painfully obvious evidence, that Islam is NOT our friend) should make sure that their tithes don't go to support this group's evil work.

dear tex lass,
your friend belongs to an intellectual (and i use that adjective loosely in this case) movement known as post-structuralism. this school of thought originated in france and became fanciful to empty american academics in the 80s. it is to blame for the decline in american education as well as the insanity that reins in much of our university humanities departments -- i.e. anti-americanism, anti-western-civilizationism, anti-capitalism, anti-rationalism. these people believe there is no objective truth, and that all truth is subjective. thus, when you throw logic out the window, you can believe whatever you want. i fondly refer to this movement as the rise of the cult of the poison mind.

As noted by others, Eastern Orthodox have traditionally been very anti-semitic (or, maybe it's more accurate to say anti-Judaic, and not stress the 'race' aspect that anti-semitism suggests). America is not significantly anti-semitism relatively speaking, but there is the occasional anti-semitism of the Left, the odd far-Right separatist, and the anti-Judaic (though not anti-Semitic) conversion campaigns of such as the Southern Baptists.

I am glad the Presbyterian Church Peace Committe apologized, but it's too little, too late. My hope is that they scrutinize their speakers more carefully.

Troy