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March 31, 2004

Dhimmitude in Australia: Cardinal Pell to host Muslim cleric at Cathedral Interfaith Prayer

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Feisal Abdul Rauf

From Australia's Catholic News, with thanks to Jean-Luc:

Cardinal George Pell of Sydney will welcome Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf to St Mary’s Cathedral tomorrow for a lunchtime Interfaith Prayer Service.

Imam Feisal is visiting Sydney at the invitation of Premier Bob Carr, who will also be in attendance at the Service.

Stressing that Imam Feisal is welcome at St Mary's, Cardinal Pell said: "One of the ambitions of Pope John Paul II is to encourage dialogue between mainstream and moderate Muslims, particularly with Catholics, but also with all Christians and all people of good will."

“He has an interesting set of views and we look forward to hearing more from him," said Cardinal Pell. “The stakes are very high. In our own small way we are talking about war or peace. Our Catholic and Christian faith compels us to work for peace.”

That's swell, but is Feisal Abdul Rauf really a good dialogue partner for Cardinal Pell? Abdul Rauf has said: "The Islamic method of waging war is not to kill innocent civilians. But it was Christians in World War II who bombed civilians in Dresden and Hiroshima, neither of which were military targets."

This is outrageously specious, but it depends on the ignorance of the listeners. The bombings of Dresden and Hiroshima were not justified by the bombers on the basis of Christian theology. The bombings by terrorists -- 9/11, 3/11, etc. -- are justified on the basis of Islamic theology. By claiming that they are equivalent, Abdul Rauf obscures the Islamic roots of modern-day terrorism, thus hindering the prospects for the reform within Islam that is so desperately needed if jihad terrorism is ever going to cease.

He has also said, according to the Sun Herald, that "there could be little progress until the US acknowledged backing dictators and the US President gave an 'America Culpa' speech to the Muslim world." Of course. The historical depredations of jihad, they were all the fault of the West. The fall of Constantinople? Probably because of Byzantium's support for Israel.

Posted by Robert at March 31, 2004 9:54 AM
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(Note: The Comments section is provided in the interests of free speech only. It is mostly unmoderated, but comments that are off-topic, offensive, slanderous, or otherwise annoying stand a chance of being deleted. The fact that any comment remains on the site IN NO WAY constitutes an endorsement by Jihad Watch or Dhimmi Watch, or by Robert Spencer or any other Jihad Watch or Dhimmi Watch writer, of any view expressed, fact alleged, or link provided in that comment.)

This Catholic leader is making a very real mistake. There is a difference between meeting with people of other faiths at a conference in a secular setting and conducting a prayer service in a consecrated Christian sanctuary.

There may be some positive benefits from open discussion of inter-faith issues at a conference or seminar held in an ordinary meeting place.

Holding a prayer meeting together in a consecrated Christian sanctuary equates prayer God with prayer to Allah. It effectively equates the two religions, if that is done that all present "become" Muslim because Muslims are supercessionists, they believe that they are "improved" versions of the Judeo-Christian tradition.

I did see one "inter-faith" gathering which was arranged in a secular meeting room, it was broadcast by C-Span. The choice of participants was excellent. C-span brought Christian clergy from Sudan and Nigeria, as well as some Eastern Orthodox clergy, the Muslim imams were challenged quite effectively. This is rare. Most "inter-faith" meetings are arranged to persuade non-Muslims that they cannot criticize Islamic theology, history or practice and must accept the idea of "equivalence."

Remember that Muslims in the Western world use laws passed to protect religious minorities from abuse, to "outlaw" any statement by others which in any way appears derogatory of Muslim theology, Muslim history or Muslim practice. One Muslim in Italy is actually suing Pope Paul for an essay he wrote in which he stated that the Koran was theologically deficient. I have a great deal of respect for Pope Paul, however, I sincerely wished he had not kissed the Koran, that was a setback

Posted by: Athena 1040 at March 31, 2004 10:41 AM

didn't nathan a few days ago make the statement that i was way off to speculate that at some future time, islam and christianity would find common ground -- and yet here we have a cardinal encouraged by the pope of the church of the great st. augustine taking strides in that very direction.

Posted by: ted at March 31, 2004 2:14 PM

If the core of Christianity is that Christ is the "way, the truth and the life, and that no one comes to the Father except by [Him, Jesus]" how can Islam and Christianity converge?

Many seek to soften the hard and unequivocal lines drawn by Christianity: Christ is the sole source of salvation; God will divide the sheep and the goats in a final judgment; sin matters a great deal and must be accounted for. So many people would like Christs to "just relax" a little. Open their minds to the idea that there are other routes to salvation, Jesus isn't really unique or absolutely necessary. Sin is just a mistake and a just God would never condemn anyone to eternal punishment. Yet the New Testament is full of warnings from Jesus for those who do not repent, Jesus mentions Hell several times, very unequivocly and makes clear that that is the endplaceo of the unrepentant. Many people would like a softer, squishier, more malleable Jesus that isn't quite so demanding. For instance, Jesus defined the sin of adultery more broadly, stating that imagining an adulterous act and lusting after someone other than your spouse was equivalent to the actual act of adulterous sexual congress. In many ways Jesus moral teachings were more strict and demanding than his contemporaries and certainly more demanding than the leaders of the "inclusivenss" movement in modern Mainstream Prostestant churchs. The Episcolpalians and the Methodists have compromised their core doctrine to such an extent that it is hard to see how they can call themselves a religion as opposed to a liberal social club. But I digress.

Muslims have every reason to push "convergence" and their primary enticement is the false claim that they honor Jesus, they just don't think he was crucified, and they just don't think he is God.
Well, I don't want to drown everyone in theology. I think the joint prayer practice is a serious, serious mistake that will advance the Islamist agenda and compromise the principles of non-Muslims faiths.

Posted by: Athena1040 at March 31, 2004 3:49 PM

Here we go again, the sweet, loving, careing, words of islam. How many times have we heard this and they still kill. Are we that stuped!

Posted by: christian at March 31, 2004 9:29 PM

Pell has just signalled that he is no longer Christian. Now, will he go the next step and seek to kill the Jews?

Posted by: Helen at April 1, 2004 12:39 AM

The catholic church does nothing to protect children from preditor priests, but loves the muslim and islam. The pope is wrong, there is no commpromise with islam and their killing. The end of christianity and jews is takeing place with the full knowledge of our leaders; it is time to stop being politically correct and see the true war that has started.

Posted by: christian at April 1, 2004 10:57 PM

Hmmmmmmm. strange as how it seems, when said the west has done so much bombing and killed countless innocent muslims, then its not related to their christianity but when some outraged muslims want to avenge for their sufferings then Islam is to be blamed? They use Islam to justify for their actions, because they believe that they have to answer One God(Allah). So they aren't disbelievers in God as how the west is, So they find reasons. So its Allah to decide as what they get either heaven or hell. By the way, Truth(Islam) never dies, even though others(west) try to suppress it and give it different names as fanatics, fundamentalists,etc. So be sure that Truth(Islam) will prevail and thats the salvation for each soul, if not died in the state of disbelief then hell for sure.

Hey why is that muslims love death, where infact there is noo scientific evidence for hereafter or life after death??? There should be something, which makes them to love death, what is that? have u ever tried to know without anyone's interferance??? Try to know it, then u will realize. Killing innocents isn't allowed in Islam and its much stressed in the Quran, if killed one(innocent) then its like killing the whole mankind and if saved one then its like saving the whole mankind. And about killing the disbelievers whihc is said in the Quran are those who know the truth and then reject it and thenn come to wage war with us(muslims), its them to be killed. As how america is doing, just for a bunch its justifying killing thousands. So isn't it the same what the bunch of muslims doing??? So both r equal in what they r doing, so its upto u as how u see each thing. Think it out.

Posted by: Truth at April 3, 2004 9:36 PM

My dear "Truth":

"Hmmmmmmm. strange as how it seems, when said the west has done so much bombing and killed countless innocent muslims, then its not related to their christianity but when some outraged muslims want to avenge for their sufferings then Islam is to be blamed?"

Precisely so. In the first place, the West doesn't target civilians, and in fact goes out of its way not to do so. Secondly, the religious faith of the Western military forces is no part of their motivations or goals, which are quite clear on other grounds. By contrast, the mujahedin have explicitly and repeatedly grounded their efforts in core Islamic religious categories. I am only taking them at their word.

"They use Islam to justify for their actions, because they believe that they have to answer One God(Allah)."

No. Christians believe they have the answer. Other religions do as well. But there is no modern global network of Christian terrorists. Or Buddhists, etc. Only Muslims. Why? Because only Islam has a developed doctrine, theology, law, and tradition mandating violence against unbelievers as part of the religious responsibility of believers. Until Muslims and non-Muslims face this fact, the violence will continue.

Cordially,
RS

Posted by: Robert Spencer at April 4, 2004 7:05 AM

PLEASE SIR I WOULD LIKE YOU TO REGISTER ME THIS COMING EVENT IN AUSTRALIA,

Posted by: ALHASSAN OSMAN at April 11, 2004 5:13 AM

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