His name is El Kurd? And he has NO memory of what Saddam thinks of the Kurds? Let alone any other muslim-run government.

Perhaps we should hear from some Kurds in Iraq who have been freed of the oppression of Saddam? Any takers?

Gary, a clarification: El Kurd is not Hussam Ayloush. He is another Muslim who was quoted in the early part of the article, which I did not include here. RS

If the USA was anything like Saddam, you wouldn't be hearing a peep out of Iraq, All you would see is crowds performing on command for the CNN press, holding up signs saying "we love Bush!"

I'm laughing so hard at CAIR right now I can't even comment.

Talk with you all later on...

D.C.

The sad part is that they are partly correct:

"Several people said afterward that the abuses had undermined America's moral standing in the world and perhaps made it a greater target of terrorist attacks."

True on both accounts. Its much easier to be angry when you can find a good pretext.

Curious~ you have me curious. Being that Sweden has been a Neutral country for quite some time, if I recall correctly? Is there any worries in your country about this form of Islam?

Zero immigration now.

To Gary:

We have been Neutral for quite a long time while secretly cooperating with Nato. Nowadays we are less neutral than before.

Most people in Sweden dont think the terrorist threat against our country is quite as high as against other countries (read USA, UK, Israel, etc). We have some troops in Afghanistan, but none in Iraq.

Some fundamentalists are angry that Taslima Nasrin (or Tasalima Nasarina or Taslima Nasreen) has been granted political asylum here after she fled from Bangladesh. (She is a writer and was accused of having hurt muslims feelings). I dimly remember that there was some foreign threats against Sweden because of this.

Another thing that might irritate is that swedes are among the most secular in the world. Also when conducting value studies inclined to rationalism and individualism compared to the rest of Europe. According to these studies we are extremists, but I and a lot of my countrymen like being so... Religion is very toned down in public.

Another problem is that "integration" between immigrants form outside Europe and swedes work quite bad in my opinion. There is a lot people with immigrant background that are not working. I think the situation is worse in Sweden than in other european countries in this regard. There is a ghettofication going on in our big cities, especially in the mental and cultural arena. Physically the areas still look good.

For those who can read swedish there is a article by anthropologist Aje Carlbom about muslims in Malmo: http://www.lu.se/info/lum/LUM_01_00/01_rosengard.html

Abstract of his thesis can be found at:
http://theses.lub.lu.se/postgrad/search.tkl?field_query1=pubid&query1=soc_454&recordformat=display

Some were offended that Sir V.S. Naipaul got the Nobel Prize in Literature 2001. (Naipaul is a critic of islamism)

We havent had as outspoken islamists as Denmark has. Hizb-ut-Tahrir had a very large public meeting some weeks before the last danish election and proclaimed their views on women, democracy, apostasy and jews. This made immigration a hot topic in the public debate. In the election the right won, partly because of this. Danish Peoples Party (Dansk Folkeparti) made huge gains. (The party quite close to social democracy on a lot of welfare issues)

In Sweden there has recently been a turnaround in the public debate about honor killings. Nowadays the problem is acknowledged and the goverment has taken steps to counter the cultural traits that lie behind them.

The most known experts on islam in Sweden are probably Jan Hjärpe and Ingmar Karlsson. Both are more or less apologists.

We shouldn't have broken any International laws regarding the treatment of prisoners. I don't feel that this scandal does anything for our image that could be considered positive.

However, we've heard no apologies from the Arab world for 9-11, for the burning, mutilation and hanging of American corpses, or any other act of barbaric behavior they've committed over the last 1400 years.

I was disappointed with the actions in the Iraqi prison, but I wasn't "APPALLED." The Arab world likes to dish it out, but when it comes time for them to take some, why they're simply taken back by our atrocities.

To hell with them. Until they get a grip on the terrorists they've created, the slavery, rape, kidnapping, theft, embezzlement, murder, and mutilation of innocent people, they deserve no apology from us.

And, since our tax dollars are funding this change in their lives, they should remember all of the positive things our troops have risked, and lost their lives for, and what's been accomplished.

They're ungrateful, and will always hate us, so the sooner we finish our job and get out of there, the better. Enough money has been wasted in an attempt to win "heart and minds" of these people.

Yes, we did something very wrong. However, it can't be compared to what's been done to us. If mainstream media insists on continually showing pictures of these Iraqis on leashes, and in compromising positions, then they need to show the pictures of what our troops are going through over there.

No apology is warranted as far as I can see it.

any port in a storm for a muslim. the prisoners although taken advantage off, are killers and would kill any american or unbeliver they could. the muslim community is looking for anything to say aginst the united states and they have found it; ofcourse not mentiong why these prisoners were in the prison to begin with.

Thank you, Curious. I spend a good 2 hours each day reading various articles, pretty much all the time I have for 'world studies' so to speak. Watching this site so closely, its good to see some perspectives from other parts of the world coming in.

Just sent this to Ayloush:

------------------------------------
So let me get this straight: Out of nearly 150,000 US troops in Iraq, a relative handful of morons commit criminal acts, and the US is somehow "hypocritical" and on the same moral plane as Saddam?

Let's compare: The most barbaric, cruel, and sick/twisted acts were committed ON ORDERS of Saddam, his sons (now thankfully deader than Elvis), and assorted Ba'athist minions. These atrocities were standard operating procedure and were institutionalized and expected.

I'll leave aside the many mass graves already discovered and those yet to be found.

Now, on the other hand, what has happened since the US military abuses came to light: The US government, to include the Bush administration and Congress, has faced it head-on and those who took part in said acts will face punishment. Apologies have been offered, although no Muslim leader came forward to offer the US an apology for the subhuman treatment given to the four American civilians tortured and hung from a bridge.

Western-style democracy is superior to all other forms of government, and it is self-evident simply by your own words. You have the right in this country to make inflammatory statements equating the US to one of the most evil dictators of all time. Try that sort of government-bashing in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Cuba, Egypt, N. Korea, etc.

If you actually believe your statement, you are a far bigger fool than any of those idiots in the Abu Ghraib pictures.

Sincerely,
Doug Walker
Hagerstown, MD

Doug, of course he doesn't believe his own statements. He's simply following the script...

Curious in Sweden....no, they will never integrate...they do not want to. Reasonable people make mistakes when they feel that all people want to get along, respect each other etc. We're dealing with a whole new animal here...

Hmmm. just read an article about Dennmark (?) beginning a 4-year moratorium on new immigration. Maybe someone is waking up over there.

Gary:
Can you provide a link to the article, in English ?

Bob:

Here's something relevant about the immigration policies of Denmark:

http://www.dw-world.de/english/0,3367,1430_A_1189646_1_A,00.html

04.05.2004

Denmark: A Conservative U-Turn

Denmark has long been considered one of Europe's most foreigner-friendly countries -- at least until recently. About 3 percent of the country's 5 million residents hail from countries outside the European Union, with the remaining 4 percent coming from EU member states. Many came as guest workers from Turkey, Pakistan and the then-Yugoslavia during the 1970s and stayed on. A second wave of immigrants arrived during the mid-1980s, mostly refugees from the Middle East, Somalia and Sri Lanka. The country is also home to a Muslim population of between 130,000 to 150,000 according to sociologist Mustafa Hussain, who has studied minorities in Denmark. In urban areas like Copenhagen, they help to weave a diverse fabric through daily life.

But Denmark has undergone a major political shift in recent years that has seen a rise in less favorable conditions for immigrants. In 2002, the Danish government, led by Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen (photo) with the support of the anti-immigration populist Danish People's Party, severely tightened its immigration policies. The new law made it more difficult for families to be reunited and extended the period of time required before immigrants can get permanent residence from three to seven years. It also requires that foreigners demonstrate the success of their integration before obtaining the visa. It made it difficult for foreigners to bring back a spouse they had married abroad as well as tightened restrictions on asylum applications and welfare benefits for foreigners living in the country. The reforms have been as lightning rod for criticism from the European Union.

The government began hardening its immigration policies in 1999 following tensions between Danes and immigrants under growing criticism that foreigners were not sufficiently integrating and that a rise in street crime was linked to that failure, according to the U.S. State Department's annual human rights report. The series of laws are also aimed at improving integration of foreigners. Newcomers over the age of 18 are require to begin participation in a three-year introduction program that includes courses on Danish culture and language within one month of their arrival. After nine years of legal residence, foreigners can apply to become naturalized Danish citizens.


http://www.dw-world.de © Deutsche Welle

One difference between Saddam's Iraq and the United States is this: you are free enough in America to move out if you're not happy.

Saddam wouldn't let his people leave. America WILL. So,Ayloush if you're not happy Tell what we'll do FOR YOU!!!! WE'll pack your bags DOR YOU! YES! I said we'll pack your bags for you and buy you a 1-way ticket to the muslim country of your choice! BYE!!!!

One think that i ´m sure of it is that the most people in the west is like a cattle,like sheep,brainwashed by the invisible zion devil shepard(the zionist media)

http://radioislam.net

THIS IS WHY THIS WAR IS GOING ON FOR:

ISRAEL'S FOREIGN POLICY: EXPANSIONISM

Iraq, on the one hand rich in oil but, on the other, torn by internal conflicts, is firmly in Israel's sights. This country's diss~lution is even more important for us than that of Syria. Iraq is stronger than Syria and, in the short term, it is Iraqi power that constitutes the greatest threat to Israel. A war between Iraq and Syria . . . will tear Iraq apart and bring about its internal collapse even before it becomes able to organise a struggle on a wide front against us. Every kind of inter‑Arab confrontation will assist us in the short run, and will bring nearer realisation of the higher aim of breaking Iraq up . . . So, three (or more) states will come into being around the three major cities ‑ Basra., Baghdad and Mosul ‑ while Shi'ite areas in the south will separate from the Sunni and Kurdish north. It may be that the present Iran‑Iraq confrontation will deepen this polarisation.

The entire Arabian peninsula is a natural candidate for dissolution, through pressure from within and from without. This is bound to happen, especially in Saudi Arabia., no matter whether that country's economic might, based on oil, remains intact or whether it ultimately decreases. Internal conflict and breakdown are a natural process clearly due to result from its present political structure.

Jordan constitutes a strategic target for the immediate future,

but not for the long term, for it will not be a real threat to us
after the ending of the Ion 1 1

g reign of King Hussein and the transfer of power to the Palestinians. . . . Israel's policy both in peace and war ought to be directed toward the liquidation of Jordan under the present regime and the transfer of power there to the Palestinian majorit~.,,. Changing the regime east of the river Jordan will also bring an end to the problem of the territories, densely populated with Arabs., to the west of the river.

Vhether throueh war or under conditions of peace. emigration from these territories. and an economic and demographic "freeze" inside them, are the necessary, guarantees of the coming chance on both banks of the Jordan. and we ought to be actively engaged in acceleratM2 this process in the very, near future. The autonomy plan should be re*ected. along with any j

scheme for compromise o‑,~,er these territories or their partition . . . It is not possible to go on li‑,,,lnp‑ in this country, as at present, without separating the two nations ‑ the Arabs to Jordan and the Jews to the West Bank. Genuine co‑existence and peace will reien over the land only. when the Arabs understand that without Jewish rule between the Jordan and the sea they, will have neither existence nor securit~, .

4