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Carey: good dhimmi! (BBC)
George Carey, the former Archbishop of Canterbury who spoke so courageously about various aspects of Islam and terrorism recently, has struck a very different posture in a new speech. From the BBC, with thanks to Susan:
"Those who took the trouble to read my lecture will have noted that I was as critical of the West, of Christianity and, for that matter, also sharply critical of Israel's policy with respect to Palestine," he said.'Clash of civilisations'
Lord Carey, who retired in 2002, said his earlier concerns came from an increasing frustration over the lack of dialogue between different faiths and cultures and ill-founded talk of a "clash of civilisations".
"Our world is in great peril. I am talking rather about a sharp ideological tension that separates the West from another world, that we call Islamic and yet does not reflect the true values of Islam," he said.
What qualifies Carey to declare that the "true values of Islam" are not those held by the radicals? They themselves claim to be true Muslims. Who is Carey to say that they are not and cannot be what they claim to be? In fact, Islam is not monolithic, and that means that no one, Muslim or non-Muslim, can declare that something is "true Islam" and something else isn't, and have his decision accepted by the Islamic world. It is not enough for moderate Muslims to say that Osama and Co. don't represent "true Islam." They need to convince their fellow Muslims of that fact. But instead, the radicals wear the mantle of Islamic purity virtually unchallenged.
"The association of Islam with terrorism is an issue that concerns not only Muslims but us all."A seriously disturbing feature is the assumption that the clash [of civilisations] will arise not from extremists but from the very being, the heart of Islam.
"Once that assumption is believed then no dialogue is possible; a state of war exists between two quite different civilisations. We cannot be content with this assumption."
That's absurd, and Carey should know it. If terrorism really does come from "the heart of Islam," whatever Carey means by that, it will do no good to anyone — and in fact will do serious harm — to ignore or sugarcoat that fact. In other words, if Islam really does have a broad tradition sanctioning violence against unbelievers, which is obvious to anyone who peruses the Qur'an and Sunnah impartially, that fact needs to be addressed by all those, Muslim and non-Muslim, who claim to oppose terrorist activity. Only that will lead to concrete measures to deal with the situation. It's breathtaking to think that Carey really believes that assuming or pretending that this isn't so is the only thing that makes dialogue possible.
The West and Muslims had to think deeply about mutual suspicions, said the former archbishop."A good number of letters I have received since my [Rome] lecture reveal a worrying ignorance of Muslim people and suspicion of their presence in the United Kingdom," he said.
"It is assumed by many that Muslims wish to take over 'our' country and if we allow them to enter Britain in significant numbers they will in time make the country Islamic."
Gee, your Lordship, that's crazy! Where did these benighted Brits get an idea like that? Hmmm. Could it be from Sheikh Omar Bakri, who has said that he wants to see "the Black Flag of Islam" flying over #10 Downing Street? I guess the British non-Muslims who have noticed that Bakri and his ilk say such things are just racists, eh, Lord Carey?
Israeli policies condemnedLord Carey said simply dismissing these fears would not prevent people believing them - in the same way that you could not brush aside Muslims' fears that Western dominance would lead to the destruction of their societies and cultures.
At the same time, he added, he recognised how Muslims were angered over the treatment of the Palestinians and, more recently, the war in Iraq.
"The policy of the present government in Israel towards Palestine is indefensible and America's bias in favour of Israel outrages millions of people throughout the world.
"I say this as someone who firmly believes in the right of Israel to exist. But the Palestinian people have become humiliated and downtrodden.
"Let us make no mistake about it, the plight of the Palestinian people is the emotional epicentre of our current troubles and healing this deep wound will go a substantial way to creating a more peaceful world."
But he added that nothing could justify suicide bombings.
Well, there's your problem right there, uh, your Lordship, Sir.
"I remain unapologetic about appealing to Muslim leaders to condemn outright such actions and to go on condemning."If Islamic leaders [in the Middle East] give support to a theology that suicide bombers are in actual fact 'martyrs', this not only lends strong theological endorsement to such military tactics but also discredits Islam world-wide."
Yep. It sure does. And in Onward Muslim Soldiers I explain that the moderates who condemn suicide bombing have never refuted the Islamic arguments used by radicals to justify that practice. But I suppose we're not supposed to notice that.
Issue Lord Carey his dhimmi badge; he's rejoined the ever-growing fellowship.
Posted by Robert at May 13, 2004 1:35 PM
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Everyone reading, please take note: OBL gave Europe 90 days from his warning after Madrid. That should be..... just about the beginning of July, I think?
Let's hope the Archbishop of Canterbury doesn't find himself proves wrong Big time.
Posted by: Gary at May 13, 2004 2:47 PMSpeaking of being down trodden and depressed, can anyone tell me of some significant Jewish terrorist acts in Europe in the pre 1940 time frame. If being demoralized and down trodden by larger society leads to such acts, there should be a string of these. Real occurences--not quotes from the "protocols of the elders of zion"
Posted by: Big R at May 13, 2004 2:59 PM>>>"I am talking rather about a sharp ideological tension that separates the West from another world, that we call Islamic and yet does not reflect the true values of Islam,"
These dhimmis will always apologize for islam, saying it's not the "real" islam. But when they criticize the West and Christianity, they never make any such qualifications. Assholes.
Posted by: Carlos at May 13, 2004 3:06 PMgood point, after the nazis wiped out 6million jews from europe why arent they taking revenge and becoming terrosists in europe? is it beacuse there religion doesnt let them?
this is def a religious problem , nothing else
Carey is a good reason why the churches of Europe and North America are emptying out: they're led by people who's love is the praise of the drunken, cynical fools who run the major media amd social prestige, but who have no love for the Word of God. The Christians of today are sheep without shepherds--or, more accurately, shepherds who lead them to dessicated grass and poisoned creeks.
Posted by: Kepha at May 13, 2004 11:25 PMCarey's dhimmitude stems from the predicament of the Anglican Church in "Palestine". It - like several other churches there - must be aware that its congregants are bending every effort to get out of "Palestine", quickly and in their droves, due to constant pressures of many and various types from the intolerant (to put it mildly) Moslem majority.
Indeed, there have been repeated reports of Arabic graffitti on walls in east Jerusalem and Bethlehem, the major centres of the Christian communities in "Palestine", reading: "First the 'Saturday people' (the Jews), then the 'Sunday people' (the Christians)".
Quite familiar with the miserable fate of religious and other minorities in Arab and Moslem lands, the proportion of Arab Christians in "Palestine" has fallen from roughly 8% in the 1950s to less than 2% today.
The greatest segment of this decline's taken place since the mid-'90s, the time of the establishment of Arafat's Palestine Authority, with emigration accelerating at an even faster rate after September, 2000, when Arafat ignited his "el-Aqsa Intefada".
With the bulk of these Christians departing with all possible speed, the Anglican Church, inter alia, realizes that soon it stands to lose its residual population in the Holy Land totally, but it can't bring itself to countenance the notion of losing its old influence there, permanently, into the bargain.
Accordingly, it seeks to at least preserve the substantial real-estate holdings it owns there (no longer able to do more than that) - and the sole way to do this is to crawl cravenly, abjectly before the feet of their Moslem masters in "Palestine", in the Arab sphere and in the dar el-Islam generally. This it's doing at every opportunity....
Posted by: HG at May 13, 2004 11:28 PMall though a priest of the church, he had indeed been told to shut up. the orgainized religions of the world have indeed been brain washed by the muslim islamc religion. it is up to the flock to defend our religion against the muslim islamic religion. the sheppard has been slain, the sheep must defend itself.
Posted by: christian at May 16, 2004 1:28 AMI'm nt quite ready to throw rocks at all Muslims quite yet. The Uighur dissidents in the US report on problems faced by Christians in the eastern and central provinces of China; so I feel some sense of gratitude for this. But I think a bigger problem is that for Carey and a lot of other "Mainstream" Christian leaders in Europe, they are already "dhimmi" to a hostile "secularist" culture.
Posted by: Kepha at May 16, 2004 2:08 AM

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