Simple solution, really. BUY THE BOOK. I know I will. And I'll email the author and ask him to write more. I'm really looking forward to reading the Trouble With Islam.

Geoff

Geoff:

STOP! I won't dissuade you from buying Manji's book, but ask yourself: "why have there been no fatwas issued against her?" I suggest that it is because the book is viewed by the islamists as fluff- the premise is good, but the format is contrived (a letter to muslims) and her calls for iftihad are naive. She just cannot bring herself to delve into the qu'ran and completely overlooks the ahadith. No mention of the Umdat al-Salik, either.

Don't get me wrong- as a Canadian, I want to see her do well. But I was disappointed in the book- she doesn't even pull her punches- she never swings her fists at all. Since you've found this BBS, you are far beyond what Manji has to say. Manji is suitable for a very "entry level" student of islam.

Assuming that you have not read them, I'd suggest either our host's "Islam Unveiled" or, for a far more detailed examination of islam and islamic history, Ibn Warraq's "Why I Am Not A Muslim".

FWIW.

And, the Chapters/Indigo bookstore chain is owned as a plaything by financier Gerry Schwartz' wife, Heather Reisman. I'm surprised that being Jewish, she would not have had a heightened sensibility of the potential for islamist trouble at such a reading. We live in difficult times...

Such things are beyond reprehensible. If you are attacked, you have the right to defend yourself. But not in this Alice Thru The Looking Glass World we're entering. Jews are apparently supposed to take whatever is dished out but I think the lesson of Shoah supercedes courtesy and ignoring taunts, insults and attacks well into the future.

Books contain thoughts. Thoughts are dangerous to a totalitarian regime. Totalitarians burn books, stifle writers, issue fatwas against them, send them to gulags and when it all just gets too messy, kills them.

Be a big picture person. See this for what it is--the first step in attempting to take away free speech and free thought.

Oh come on ! Don't you think you are being a bit melodramatic here ?

"Why I am not a Muslim" is a good book, but "Leaving Islam - Apostates Speak Out" is by far Ibn Warraq's best. It is one of the best books about Islam ever written, and it SHOULD be read by all anti-Islamists.

http://www.secularislam.org/testimonies/index.htm

An item about Canada a few days ago noted that some "Christian" Arabs identify with, and promote, the Islamic agenda -- mostly, but not exclusively, "Palestinian" Christian Arabs of the Ashrawi variety -- you remember her, she was Peter Jenning's friend, who continues to teach him so much about Islam (he had her on to enlighten us just a few days after the 9/11 attacks), or Naim Ateek (very useful in addressing Christian clergy in the U.S.), or Bishop Hilarion Cappucci (good at stealing icons from churches to buy weapons for the PLO, and then smuggling in those weapons).

Some Kurds now see the U.S. as their protector, and the Arabs, who did nothing to stop, and saw little to object to in, the murder of Kurds by Arabs in a campaign given a Qur'anic title, Al-Anfal (no accident that, comrade -- as they used to say in Russia). Others, however, wish to be "plus arabe que les arabes, plus islamiste que les islamistes." And of course what better way for a Kurd to demonstrate his fidelity to Islam (and to supposedly win support, or favor from Arabs -- fat chance) than by disrupting a Jewish novelist's reading, or some such.

Among the Kurds, there are those who see Israel as an ally (remember back in the 1960s, when Kurdish pilots for the Syrian Air Force would defect by landing their planes in Israel? It was great fun), which it can be. And then there are the Mullah Krekars of this world, who pretend that if the Kurds are extra-Muslim, they will be accepted, and all will be well. Hence the phenomenon of Ansar al-Islam in the north.

More intellligent Kurds will recognize that they have shared interests with Israelis, insofar as both should wish to weaken Arab military and political power. Israel would benefit from a Kurdistan carved out of Kurdish areas of Syria, Iraq, and Iran. Turkey, as long as it remains true to Kemalism, is another matter. Raison d'etat, for now, demands that Turkey's Kurds remain under that quasi-Kemalist wing. A free Kurdistan would not make their political case stronger, incidentally (as some Turks fear) but weaker. For if there were a free and independent Kurdistan, those Kurds wishing to live in such a state could move there, and their moral claim on the Turkish state would be diminished, not heightened.

An attempt to silence their critics, even in the form of a piece of fiction. Wasn't "The Satanic Verses" a piece of fiction. Look what happened to Rushdie. This author was lucky that a fatwa wasn't issued.

This is an object lesson for all of us. We will be silent aamd grovel five times a day or we will be dead.

We in Canada have a Federal election coming
up and if the pro Al-Qaida Liberals stay in power for another 5 years the current Shria court system
in Ontario will be forced on the whole country.
Chretien had ties to a Al-Qaida family and after the 911 attack he visited a Mosque before he paid respect to the 24 Canadains cremated
against their will by Islamic Militants.
One of the Cleric's sitting near Chretien was later identified as a fund raiser for terrorists,Ahmed Ressam collected welfare as a oppressed refugee and was allowed to take bomb making chemicals from Montreal to Vancouver and cross into the USA at Port Angeles with plans to murder Americans at the LAX Airpoprt.
I have seen pro Palestinian rallies where flags get burned,signs have swastika,police are spit on,and the Leaders of some Muslims groups attend
these hate-fests. They also terrorized Concordia University in the name of Palestinian and Muslim justice,University of Toronto now ask non-Muslims playing sports to dress modestly as to not offend Muslim women.
Chretien allowed France to dictate our foreign policy,now Al-Qaida wants us dead,and staying out of Iraq didn't appease the torrorists. Since seeing an overt hatred for Christian Canadians
by Muslims we will be next on the terror list,because of this I have a Quran in my washroom and each day I use a page to wipe my butt. I ware a Star of David on a chain to draw out these peace loving "Jew Haters",you can try to stop literatures free expression,but you aint getting in my washroom,I just hope I don't get charged for impropperly disposing of toxic
waste.
The only group to protest the Berg slaughter by rabid animals was the "Muslims against terrorism", Cair canada,Muslim Canadian Congress,and Canadian Islamic Congress all remained mute in fear of the Militant wing of
Islam.

Wake-up Canada.

bob, calling me melodramatic doesn't take away the fact that there is no free speech in the radical muslim world, there is no literature that deviates from the party line, there is no science except bomb building, there's no invention, creativity, or indeed individualism. Everything is dictated from the mullahs and one book. No need for the First Amendment anymore, chuck that one right out the window.

In fact, calling my comment melodramatic seems to be an attempt to silence and cow me. It's just a way to demean, to make me appear frothingly foolish while in a exercise of prestidigitation behind our backs, our culture is being attacked with the intent to annihilate us.

Hugh is absolutely right about the Kurds and Kurdistan. Although the occasional wacko Kurd might join forces with a rabid Palestinian (as in this bookstore story) the Kurds as a people owe nothing to the Palestinian "cause" since Arafat aligned himself with Saddam Hussein during the first Gulf War, and it was this same Saddam Hussein who had gassed the Kurds.

Traditionally and historically, the Jews (and Israel) have had cordial relations with the Turks and Kurds (and Armenians for that matter). From Israel's point of view, relations with the Turks and Kurds (who do NOT get along with each other) is a bit like walking a tightrope. Israel has to try to strike a balance.

Just a note about Irshad Manji,her website has the most hatefull statements in emails by
Muslims,the most supportive emails left on her site are by Christians admiring her courage to
reclaim Islam to Peacefull Muslims.
The website is www.muslim-refusenik.com and
check the emails making death threats because
she is in the back pocket of the "Jewish Pigs"
that control the world.
Several Muslims tell other Muslims they are
enemies of Allah because they befriend the "People of the book" ( translation= Jews and Christians) and are now evil sinners to be killed.
You would think they would be gratefull for being in a free democratic country to practise their faith,but no,every one is a islamophobe
and racist.

Manji's writing all hide the true meaning of Islam. Do not be fooled, Manji is pro Islam, and does just as well as a cleric in hiding the truths, changing the subject and ignoring the questions.

Those muslims are a noisy bunch, I don't know why they aren't rounded up, and send back to their own countries. Half of them are here illegaly.
They distrupt univercities, prevent speakers from discussing Islam, freely spout their jew hate, which is supposed to be illegal in Canada. The Liberals do not force them to follow the law, for fear of the vote.
Well, we have an election comming, and the vote the liberals must fear is the one they will never get from me.

Roger Dailey

Try Charmin! It is a much better read and softer on the rear.

The Koran’s 150 Jihad Verses, Compiled by Yoel Natan
www.angelfire.com/moon/yoelnatan/koranwarpassages.htm

Folks:

You have to go to this link and watch these videos that Memri is now providing. They are monitoring Arab TV and providing translations. These videos just blow your mind totally.

Check it out:

http://memri.org/video/

Dixie:
You lament the lack of free speach and yet you would have the two hecklers deported ? Come on, people heckle bad stand up comedians worse. I've been to soccer games where opposing fans have screamed racist abuse at players.
I don't disagree with the long term problems Islamofacists pose but a couple of yahoos yelling in a mall is not a major issue. Wal-Mart refusing to sell material they deem unsuitable is more of an issue in my book.

Yes Rachel Corrie will become a saint and Nick berg will become forgotten
that is the power of the useful idiots to islamification aka the western press.
By directing hate towards the Jews they paly a subtle game of blinds man buff advancing stealthfully whilst the western world is shouting abuse at Israel dor defending itself.
GOd has at least helped the Jews in giving the an IQ that is significantly higher than the arabs. Perhaps that will help a little.

Roger,

Some very good information. Thank you for providing names and details. Something we can all pay attention to and spread the word about.

Mentat is correct. All should watch the video on MEMRI.

These Islamonazis need to stopped. Canadian Muslims need to be warred against. Every time a Muhamemdan performs jihad, such as this, I want to see a busful of Cockaroach/muslims slaughtered. Islam needs to be exterminated now!

Thanks: MENTAT

Below is an excerp from a article on that website you listed www.memri.org and I didn't see this antisemitic trash in any Canadian news media. Irshad tried to tell people about the Saudis funding sharia law seminars in Canada,Muslim leaders denied it and accused her of being funded by Israel.
We have hate laws in Canada but I now believe the Liberals are worried about upsetting AL-Qaida
if they banned this midle east loser from spewing his hate to the peace loving Muslims.

__________________________________________________
____________________________________________________Here it is:

Sheikh Abd Al-Rahman Al-Sudayyis, the Saudi government appointed imam of the Grand Mosque in Mecca, will give a series of lectures in Canada next week and attend the Islamic Society of North America conference in Toronto. Al-Sudayyis's position is one of the most prestigious in Sunni Islam. Thus, his sermons hold significant weight throughout the Islamic world.
The themes of his sermons are characterized by confrontation toward non-Muslims. Al-Sudayyis calls Jews "scum of the earth" and "monkeys and pigs" who should be "annihilated." Other enemies of Islam, he says, are "worshippers of the cross" and "idol-worshipping Hindus" who should be fought. Al-Sudayyis has been consistent in calling for jihad in Kashmir and Chechnya, for Jerusalem to be liberated, and for the "occupiers in Iraq" to also be fought. He often claims that Islam is superior to Western culture.

At the Grand Mosque in Mecca on February 1, 2004, Sheikh Al-Sudayyis called on Muslims everywhere to unite to defeat the world's occupiers and oppressors. "History has never known a cause in which our religious principles, historical rights, and past glories are so clearly challenged... The conflict between us and the Jews is one of creed, identity, and existence." He told those listening to "read history," in order "to know that yesterday's Jews were bad predecessors and today's Jews are worse successors. They are killers of prophets and the scum of the earth. Allah hurled his curses and indignation on them and made them monkeys and pigs and worshippers of tyrants. These are the Jews, a continuous lineage of meanness, cunning, obstinacy, tyranny, evil, and corruption..."

Al-Sudayyis elaborated on the conflict between Muslims and Jews:

"O Muslims, the Islamic nation today is at the peak of conflict with the enemies of yesterday, today, and tomorrow, with the grandsons of Bani-Quraydah, Al-Nadhir, and Qaynuqa [Jewish tribes in the early days of Islam]. May Allah's curses follow them until the Day of Judgment

Bob:
"A couple of yahoos yelling at a mall is not an issue"

I strongly disagree. Since Islam's inception, Muslims have silenced dissent by intimidation and assassination. This has been going on for centuries and is continuing today. This episode is part of a larger picture that seeks to squash anything remotely critical of Islam. Don't you think the publishers will think twice about publishing such books in the future, or holding readings? This also serves a wider purpose: pour encourager les autres. And of course, it was aided and abetted by the police. Instead of removing the hecklers and allowing the reading to continue, it was cancelled. Another victory for islam and for dhimmitude. Another defeat for freedom of conscience and speech.

Silvester;
I just think people should be careful not to over react as in the case of Angry Infidel who wants a busload of cockroaches/muslims slaughtered. I think this is unfair. Yes, we do need to look out for these facist islamists but in this instance I don't think they are any more than a couple of yahoos out of their depth.

Bob,

If it were my country I would definitely have the 2 hecklers deported if they are not citizens. They are undesirable aliens. Are you going to try to convince them you're a nice guy and maybe they'll give your country a pass for now. It's gone way past that. Not just anyone is okay to live in a democracy. If this were 1939 would you allow actualy Nazis to immigrate with the hope that their character would improve in the good Canadian air? How about if some pro-aparthied racists were expelled after S.Africa was liberated? Would you let them live amongst you if they did to a black person what these guys did to that novelist? Racist speech may be protected, but it marks an alien as undesirable and gratefully eligible for a kick out the door.

Annette Knott, co-ordinator for the U of T Bookstore series, says they brought in security for Pagan Christ author Tom Harpur, because "he has been getting some fairly hostile e-mails," but there was no confrontation.

Seems the Christian fundamentalists are just as prone to a bit of bookburning. Should we deport them or slaughter a busload ?

Look, I am not denying there is a problem with Islamofacists, just in this case, I am not sure that this is anything more than a couple of yahoos.

Roger,

I had also read this, but then I read somewhere else that the imam had been "pulled". Do you have any further info on this? I know that we anti-islamists flooded the Canadian Jewish Congress and PM with protests. Please advise.

Roger Daly:

I received confirmation earlier this week from Bernie Farber, head of the Canadian Jewish Congress, that this vicious Jew-hater will NOT be permitted into Canada. He won't be speaking at the ISNA dawa-fest in Toronto.

That said, I still sent in a letter to the Prime Minister, copied to Irwin Cotler, expressing my opposition to his EVER being permitted entry to Canada. FWIW...

EARL and JAVA

Thanks for the tip,I send a copy to Paul Martin and Jack Layton (NDP) as well as Stephen Harper. The Liberals tried to scare Canadian voters by attacking Christian Conservatives as
a threat to Canada,I asked Harper to get a response from Martin if the Imam was not as bad as the freedom loving Christians.

I'm still checking newspaper archives and
Islamic websites in Canada to see if any denounced the entry to Canada of this idiot.
I also asked the NDP if they knew that while Mayer Arar's wife was running for a NDP seat in
Ottawa, he is trying to sue Canadians for 400,000,000 dollars for the torture by the Syrian Government. She's in a conflict of interest if elected since she'll stand to get half of the money. You can't be inside the Government while your spouse is sueing for 400 Million $.

Thanks Roger for the info. I think you live in Alberta. I think most of the native Canadians live in Alberta. Are we the only smarts?

Where are all these lectures taking place??

I would love to go to one of those and punch some Islamists in the face with spiked fist.

"You lament the lack of free speach and yet you would have the two hecklers deported ?"

Nice try, bob. (Speech is spelled with two e's btw.) I didn't say anything about deporting the hecklers. The problem is with *what* the hecklers said and then the restriction that was attempted to be placed on the novelist when he defended himself against the threatening racial slur.

I imagine if a massive group of people was out to annihilate you and your kind, if two of these types began threatening you even at an oh so delightful shopping mall, you'd take it as a real threat to be managed and not just a couple hecklers out to taunt Jackie Mason in the Comedy Club.

Dixie;
Thanks for the spelling tip, I do that all the tyme. :)

I just don't see it as that big a deal. I thought it a pretty weak story to be honest and didn't merit a mention. Boo, hoo, someone called me a name ? Come on !

to hugh and path:

one big reason that israelis may get along with kurds, turks, and armenians is that they are more closely related to each other genetically than the jews are with the arabs. credible y-chromosome studies were published a few years back on this topic:

http://www.kulanu.org/old/jewishdna.html

Bob, you might be surprised that we're not falling for your "Christians hate as much as Islamists" nonsense. Such postings are typical on this site by those who wish to make equivalences between the religion of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and "slay them where you find them." Isn't it strange that you read no accounts of Christian suicide bombers? Or of Christians beheading Muslims? Or see the theology of Christian jihad? (BTW, the Crusades were defensive!). Anyone can claim to be anything in email, so that's not a definitive example in isolation. Yet with Muslims, you will see email threats, shouting down (which is different than mere heckling -- read the original report again, please), phone threats, stalking, suicide bombing, attacking, murder, all directed against people of different beliefs. You won't see this sort of thing argued by Christians, nor practiced by them. Now go and learn something about what you're comparing, please!

The usual rant from Muslim cleric's when they're cornered about the terrorists issue is to promote Islam as murdering less people than other faiths.
Wow,that makes me feel better,sounds like Islam is a death lottery and your odds are better for survival.

Why not just stop murdering people?

I am the author of The Second Catastrophe (Mantua Books - available at Chapters in Canada or online at Chapters.ca), the one whose lecture was shouted down by those who don't believe in fredom of expression. I am still in a state of shock. When the protestors refused to let me speak, audience members asked them to give me my right to speak; one said that as a supporter of Israel, I shouldn't have the "right" to speak; the other called me a "f---ing Jew". My "inappropriate" behaviour (according to Chapters) was that as the store manager told me I couldn't continue the lecture, I shouted back that it was improper to call me a "f----ing Jew" at my lecture. Really! That is the moral eqivalency at work here.
I suggest that the best way to find back at the Islamist mind police is for people to read my book and judge it for themselves. If you don't like it, criticize, throw it away, or write one of your own. Just don't allow them to silence me!

Bob,

So you don’t mind being called a few names. Well then I can feel free to speak my mind without pulling punches. What makes it a waste of time to seriously discuss an issue with the likes of you is that you will not address the underlying principle involved. Instead you just talk around and around the peripherals of the discussion and nothing is made any clearer. Whether this is due to lack of intelligence, a desire to muddle the issue, or just to be argumentative is not clear to me. However, I will take the time to try and spell it out for you.

This website is obviously been put together to report on the various inroads being made by Islamist culture fascists, on various populations and countries throughout the world. Agreed? On this continent (North America), the attempts to achieve these inroads are being furthered by two methods which work together. One method is physical violence; terrorism or violent demonstration. The other is by manipulating the ‘political correctness’ machine which is already in place. Political correctness is a weapon. It is a form of intimidation and control. I do hope that you are familiar with these concepts. PC (political correctness) is not only a potent weapon on its own, but facilitates real violence and terrorism by controlling how they are reported and perceived.

The reason the incident in the bookstore was reported on this site is that it fits the pattern outlined above. It is an inroad being made by Islamic culture fascists. As Whistling Dixie pointed out, but which apparently went way over your head, the important point here was Chapters’ irrational reaction in giving in to the hecklers in the first place, and of equating the author’s defense to the heckler’s abuse. That, my dear Bob, is an example of PC being used to further the cause of Islamic fascism. The thought of a seemingly normal managerial staff folding under so little pressure is what scares most readers of this site, and why it is reported here. If it happened successfully once, it will be tried again. Chances are that with the climate of PC that exists, they will succeed again, and again. That in turn will result in a climate of controlled information and perception, which will influence people’s actions and decisions. Do you now understand the ‘inroads’ concept?

So Bob, if you do not agree with the basic premise that there is an Islamic Jihad being waged, or if you do not ascribe to the concept of ‘political correction’ being a weapon of control, just say so outright. If so, you are obviously spending your time reading the wrong website, but that is your prerogative. I only ask that if you answer this post, that you actually address the issues discussed here, and not go off on some other tangent. I have no time to lecture you on logic.

Helping Hand;
Despite your condescending tone I will reply.
I am WELL aware of the PC facism that exists in todays culture and I very much rail against it. If I wasn't concerned about Islamofacism I wouldn't be reviewing this excellent website. But for me, this incident is/was a storm in a teacup in the grand scheme of things. This piece sticks out as a slow day in the news, "Oooh, name calling in the mall !! The muslims are coming !! Head for the hills!!" COME ON GET A GRIP !! See C4 pulling their program off the air because it may offend some people, now that IS an issue.

Helping Hand: excellent post.

Bob: I still think you're wrong.
"A steady drip wears away the stone eventually"
Day by day, hour by hour and minute by minute the process of doing the same thing ultimately gets the desired results.
Yes, C4 pulling that programme is appalling, but so is Howard Rotberg's experience. These occurrences are all part of muslim tactics.

Howard Rotberg: Good for you, keep plugging away, stay safe, you're in illustrious company. Might even buy your book!

Silvester;
Fair enough, I am just "giving the benefit of the doubt" here. If I had been there and witnessed it I would have slapped them myself.

Let's keep up the good work and drive people to this site and get people aware.

C4, expect my e-mail shortly !! ;)

smiles for ya,mr rothberg.

"all that is required for evil to triumph
is for good men to do nothing".

shalom-
-doc

Yes Mr Rothberg is doing a good job. I haven't heard of you but I'm rootin' for ya!

Mr. Rotberg's case reminds me that kids today are told they can't defend themselves against bullies and often because teachers don't want to get sued they punish both the bully and his victim for "fighting."
Such idiocy!

A tempest in a teacup, huh? "What's a little yellow star to wear on your clothing showing the world you're a Jew. We're Germans. They won't hurt us."
Zyklon B, Auschwitz, Dauchau, Treblinka, I.G. Farben, crematoriums, medical experimentation and all the rest I'm sure you're aware of or should be later and there are 6 million of Mr. Rotberg's people dead at the hands of some lunatics who just felt like they had something against the Jews and no one in the world was all that bothered by it. Mr. Rotberg has the *responsibility* to defend himself. A small breeze announces a big wind, bob.