OT-but thought you might be interested.
From WorldNetDaily: 'Martyrdom' graduation sashes incite violence? California Muslim students' item emblazoned with 'shahada' in Arabic.

Goddam, Mr. Spencer. This is the kind of crap we DON'T need here. You SAY the struggle against jihad is not a liberal or conservative issue. But then you try to play it off like the liberals and jihadis are bestest buds. Can't you see this is just more ammo for the lib'rul hating trolls here?

Maybe Hezbollah does support Moore in the United Arab Emirates. Didn't the Saudi support both Bushes? I know for a fact that Sami Al-Aryan campaigned for W and told all his Muslim buddies to do so... I imagine that they may have even sent money.

I bet the Jihadis would also, at one time, have really liked to have seen "Rambo III". You remember, the one where Rambo and the Taliban kick the Soviets' asses?

I'm trying to get more liberals to visit your site, make the hit counter spin, and maybe make a donation, and this is what greets them? Please, cease with the political stuff. I, or any other liberal with a decent memeory, could match you instance-for-instance in republican/conservative-Muslim ties.

Please.

KJ

Keithjoy: We can't just stop talking about political issues when they are relevant. It is a fact that the Left-wing has considerable collaboration with Islamists. Read this piece by Amir Taheri:

http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/5163

The Black-Red Alliance

When the US-led coalition invaded Iraq in March 2003, few would have imagined that the move might lead to the formation of an alliance between the radical Left and hard-line Islamists in Western Europe. But this is precisely what happened. The Palestinian checkered headgear, worn by the leftists as a cache-col, has become the symbol of this left-Islamist alliance. Talks are underway for holding a pan-European conference next year to give the Marxist-Islamist alliance permanent organizational structures

You have consistently been shown to be ignorant, ill-mannered, inconsistent, delusional, and wrong, KeithJoy. I guess we can now add blind to that list. Are you calling Spencer a liar? Are you saying that there is no anti-semetic axis between liberals and the pro-Pali cause? Are you saying there is no natural collusion between the hate-America left and the America-hating Islamists?

Let's see. America's major newspapers and big 3 networks consistently whitewash terrorism by using phrases such as "violence broke out" and "the cycle of violence" (Reuters won't even use the term "terrorist"). A strong majority of newspaper reporters have been polled as liberals; this has held up over successive polling cycles, many years apart. What do you call that if not agreement and support?

Go on and quote all the conservative butt-kissing of terrorists. Aside from NTU and possibly the Heritage foundation, there isn't any. No, Justin from Antiwar.com doesn't count -- he's a libertarian. No, Pat Bucchanan doesn't count as he's far off his rocker and has been ever since the Reform Party presidential bid. I'm sure you know this, but I'm anticipating your insincerity.

KJ: "Maybe Hezbollah does support Moore in the United Arab Emirates."

That's what the article SAID, Keith.

KJ: "Didn't the Saudi support both Bushes?"

Evidence? I think it's on you to provide evidence, isn't it?

"I know for a fact that Sami Al-Aryan campaigned for W and told all his Muslim buddies to do so... I imagine that they may have even sent money." And what did it get them? Not much. And before 9/11, who knew as much about terrorism as we do now? You're using hindsight, KJ.

KJ: "I bet the Jihadis would also, at one time, have really liked to have seen "Rambo III". You remember, the one where Rambo and the Taliban kick the Soviets' asses?" So you're saying that the USSR wasn't an enemy worth defeating? That we should have just let them hang around and continue their atrocities? How much money did Stallone get and how has he furthered worldwide jihad? How did that movie attack the U.S?

You seem to have a soft spot for hating your own country, like all liberals do, KJ. Why do you think that the jihadis love Moore so much? WHY? It's because they both long to see it in flames. Moore attacks from the inside and out; the jihadis attack from inside and out. It's a synergy born of common cause and the goal is to embarass, defeat, malign, and dispirit the United States. Tell me how Rambo III did that and you'll win the gold for mental gymnastics.

You could try, KJ, but you would be skewered alive the way you are every time you post such nonsensical tripe.

Truth hurts, doesn't it Keithie?

Actaully it must be really hard to be a leftie these days as their pathetic alliance with Islam belies everything they SAID to believe in.

They think they believe in gay rights? So why are helping people who think gays should be crushed to death under toppled brick walls?

They think they are feminist supporters? So why do they suck up to honor killing apologists and burkha-wearers?

They say they are for equality for all people? So why are they helping a supremacist ideology like Islam which treats vast swathes of humanity as second-class citizens?

They say they are for "world peace"? So why do they don mock suicide bomber kits at their "peace" rallies?

And on and on. . .leftists don't really believe in anything but destroying democracy and the West. Which, of course, is exactly why they have hooked up with Islam.

I'd like to put in a word of support here for Keithjoy. I don't care who calls themselves "liberal" or "conservative." I tend to be more conservative myself, but I've the impression, from reading Keithjoy's posts, that he's in basic agreement with the core of what most of us here are talking about -- that Islamism poses the most dangerous threat to the world today, and we all need to confront that. Keithjoy is not at all like those on the FAR left who really are looney-tunes and who are now allying themselves with the Islamists. I have no idea if I would agree with Keithjoy on everything, but then again, I know of no two people who would on agree on 100% of anything anyway. As far as I'm concerned, if Keithjoy can bring more "liberals" to this site who can be educated and make their own contributions, more power to him.

Ali Dashti,

The red-black alliance started well before Iraq. In fact the first collaboration was the wave of joint leftist-islamic anti-US demos that swept much of western Europe and North America even before the Afghan campaign started.

I just don't get it. The only thing these two groups have in common is hatred for the US. In every other way, they are diametrically opposed (except in their totalitarianism). But, as far as their values, they couldn't be more different. Gay rights, women's rights, atheism and secularism, abortion, pornography, freedom of speech, no value judgments, etc. These are things the left claims everyone has a "right" to and these Islamists would take it away in a hearbeat. The leftists would be the first ones with their heads on a stick. What do they think will happen once the great Satan America is defeated. Do they think the Islamists will shake their hands, say "well done" and go their separate ways? Insane! Can anyone explain this logic?

I posted about this website in the Agnostic/Atheist forum, but people were put off by the fact that it was connected to rightwingers. I think that we've got to stop arguing about the left or right, and concentrate on the fact that we all oppose Islam. We all need to support each other in this quest. Forget about political allegiances for once.
I think that Islam should be a banned religion, like Nazism is in Germany. Get rid of it, like we got rid of Nazism.

"The red-black alliance started well before Iraq."

It actually started in 1979, when the Western left helped the Khomeini revolution along in Iran by promoting the fiction that he was just a kindly old "spiritual leader" in a dress who would be happy to step aside for a secular democratic leader after the Revolution was complete.

I was there; I remember.

The old Left is gone, the cadres are gone, the Soviet Union is gone, the Warsaw Pact is gone, China has gone capitalist. Nothing is left except North Korea, Viet Nam and Cuba---all marginal countries, basket cases of poverty. And so the desperate Left turns to militant Islam, this is probably the most bizarre politcal alliance of this, or any, century. "lmc" hits the nail squarely, these two "allies", on the surface, have nothing in common (except a shared hatred of "Western values") but both are utopians, and they'll do anything to achieve that utopia. In their delusion, the Left has become Islam's "useful idiot".

Yes, the left-right divide can better be fought over elsewhere. Problem is, moslem fanatics have been known to use and abuse the hospitality, generosity and benefit-of-doubt that liberal western systems offer all human beings in their domains - and it is these set of civil and individual rights the left claims to hold dear. Well, sometimes, you may have to sacrifice a little in order to save a lot - better losing a finger than losing the entire arm. The left's misguided defense of 'terrorist rights' is suicidal.

Kiethjoy, just as we try get muslims to open their eyes, read what the koran says, apply logic to it, You should do the same to that fat turd Micheal Moore's work. It's all pure BS.

The Guy is anti American period, and he's proud of it.

How can you be so blind? Probably why you are a lefty. You just can't see what's right in front of your nose.

I do notice this trend for lefty's to literally worship their chosen celebs, despite what frauds they are. Maybe thats a result of too much lefty philosophy, marxism class, and taking too much xtacy (messes up your brain)

At Cannes the jury was headed by an American, Quentin Tarantino, and most of the jury consisted of Americans. It was they who awarded the prize to Moore. In France, among the French critics at least, there was surprising dismay that a movie so banal, so deeply parti pris, so inartistic and joky an effort, was given to a movie that recalled, in its obviousness, Soviet Agitprop. Lunacharsky would have loved it.

That might be a good quote for the ads, actually. Forget Rex Reed or Frank Rich. "Lunacharsky would have loved it." Don't apologize, don't explain. You don't even have to pay me royalties, though a nominal sum is always welcome. Just use it.

The core of the Jihadist charge against the West could be summarized as follows:

"You are decadent and hedonistic. We on the other hand are willing to die for what we believe, and we are a billion strong. You cannot kill all of us, so you will have to accede to what we demand."

Now it appears to me, that it's the Left, who are those that the decadent charge can be hurled against, not the right, who in most cases are just as appaled by the decadence of the Left, as the Jihadists are
So what biological process is happening, when the Left backs those who are are out to destroy it?
Maybe it's similar to women and gays. Married women are much les in agreement with gay rights than those women who refuse to marry or are divorced.
Worth thinking about!

Kiethjoy,

Not to press the issue further then people above have already stated, but...it is the time to tell the truth, instead of gaining people that don't know the cause already.

I heard a man recently make a statement that described your comment, liberals, and the political correctness issue, that it was like a bright light in darkness. The statement was:

"YOU CANNOT SACRIFICE TRUTH ON THE ALTER OF UNITY, WITHOUT LOSING BOTH".

I remember an analysis on belmontclub which stated the same thing; the left is being consumed by radical Islam. Check it out, it is very interesting.

But remember: the struggle against jihad is not a liberal or conservative issue. It's a human rights issue
Robert is sooo correct!
Its also a question of BAD education which is historical.
Universities have been infiltrated by left wing thinkers since Vietnam We see those results today in our society.
I remember the "peer pressure" of left wing academic thinking in university life back in the early days of Pol Pot.
How much worse must it be today for dissenters ?

The academic level of a country is inversely proportional to its ability to defend itself.
The french have possibly the highest standard of education on the west.
All the achievements of intellect have reduced us to the state of blind eunochs
This is possibly one of the reasons for the fall of great empires in the past.
Did the romans also constantly flaggelate their own centurion forces after they returned to Rome having defended them from the onslaught of uncivilised barbarians ?
Did all those aromatic oils and nubian slaves and academic discussions in the Roman baths create a decebdance which resulted in the inability to even raise an arm inself defence ?
Is this what will happen to our shopping mall culture?

Dear Michael Moore,

You may not know it but your film '9/11' means nothing to the Muslim world except as a propaganda device which Muslim leaders will now use to further galvanize yet MORE Mohammedans to slaughter MORE Americans. You see, Yo' Michael, the purpose of Islam is to forcibly recruit human beings as cannon fodder in an eternal war to force the rest of the world into accepting the leglization of murder under the guise of "Islam."

Remember the stanzas in the Qu'ran that read "SLAY THE INFIDELS EVERYWHERE
BESIEGE THEM, CAPTURE THEM,
SET EVERY STRATAGEM OF WAR UPON THEM."

IF this does not appeal to you, you are marked for death by the Islamic world's leaders. Like the rest of us. Guaranteed (we'll consider re-imbursing you for that silly piece of tripe you made ('9/11') out of ignorance...or NOT!).

If all this DOES sound good to you, I entreat you to JOIN HIZBOLLAH, MIKE!!!!!!! YES!!!!!! Why would I say this? Because we can then legally blow (or 'bowl') you away Columbine-style on the battle front.

Give our love to Oprah, apparently another media celebrity who it seems is hell-bent on misleading the American public about the true nature of Islam.

Thanks, Mike...for nothing.

The Sedition Act
Anyone else know what it is?

Here is the amendment that was made to it in 1918:
Whoever, when the United States is at war, shall willfully make or convey false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United States, or to promote the success of its enemies, or shall willfully make or convey false reports, or false statements, . . . or incite insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or shall willfully obstruct . . . the recruiting or enlistment service of the United States, or . . . shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of government of the United States, or the Constitution of the United States, or the military or naval forces of the United States . . . or shall willfully display the flag of any foreign enemy, or shall willfully . . . urge, incite, or advocate any curtailment of production . . . or advocate, teach, defend, or suggest the doing of any of the acts or things in this section enumerated and whoever shall by word or act support or favor the cause of any country with which the United States is at war or by word or act oppose the cause of the United States therein, shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment for not more than twenty years, or both....

And the Link to it so you can read it in its' entirty (only site I could find it unedited):
http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=5290

I wonder who and how many people in the media (and leagal system think ACLU and CAIR) this claim could be brought against.

I would love to see it used soon maybe Ashcroft just needs to be reminded its out there.

One could only hope.

Pray for Peace, and ask for God's Blessings on your work,
but do not expect him to do it for you.

All urgent steps that the west needs to take - like revamping asylum laws and immigration policies, like ethnic and religious profiling at airports, like eavesdropping and monitoring prayer sermons in mosques, like lowering the burden of proof in terrorism trials, like calling a spade a spade (I mean, if the USSR was the 'evil empire', well, then what's islam?)...etc etc etc
- are steps which if taken, would invite the loudest howls of protest from who else - but the loony left! Islamism's useful idiots, unlike the communistic ones, I believe are somehow entirely blind to Islam's dangers. Which makes it all the more mystifying to me, why??

I trust Michael Moore much more than I trust Bush. George W. Bush not only underestimates the danger of islamfundamentalism, he's a religious fundamentalist himself too. Based on Bush' his own words, it's no wonder there's a link between the Bush-clan and the Bin Laden-family:

"Islam is peace" - George W. Bush

"Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance" - George W. Bush

Pleace, Americans, don't vote for Bush on the next elections. A vote for Bush is a vote for Bin Laden.

Desperato
Please read the following carefully.
Subject: While we snooze: WW III

You have to read the catalogue of events in this brief piece.

Then, ask yourself how anyone can take the position that all we have to do is bring our troops home from Iraq, sit back, re-set the snooze alarm, go back to sleep, and no one will ever bother us again.

In case you missed it, World War III began in November 1979... that alarm has been ringing for years.

U.S. Navy Captain Ouimette is the Executive Officer at Naval Air Station, Pensacola, Florida. Here is a copy of the speech he gave last month. It is an accurate account of why we are in so much trouble today and why this action is so necessary.

AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!

That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September 2001 (When more than 3,000 Americans were killed -AD) and maybe it was, but I think it should have been "Get Out of Bed!" In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we have continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes of peaceful sleep since then.

It was a cool fall day in November 1979 in a country going through a religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran. This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack that held the world's most powerful country hostage and
paralyzed a Presidency. The attack on this sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to follow for the next 23 years.

America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter, had to do something. He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert.

The ill-fated mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's inability to deal with terrorism.

America's military had been decimated and downsized/right sized since the end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was doomed from the start.

Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and killed throughout the Middle East. America could do little to protect her citizens living and working abroad. The attacks against US soil continued.

In April of 1983 a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven into the US Embassy compound in Beirut. When it explodes, it kills 63 people. The alarm went off again and America hit the Snooze Button once more.

Then just six short months later a large truck heavily laden down with over 2500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the US Marine Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 US servicemen are killed. America mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.

Two months later in December 1983, another truck loaded with explosives is driven into the US Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her slumber.

The following year, in September 1984, another van was driven into the gates of the US Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April 1985 a bomb explodes in a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid.

Then in August a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main, 22 are killed and the snooze alarm is buzzing louder and louder as US interests are continually attacked.

Fifty-nine days later a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro is hijacked and we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger list and executed.

The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986 that killed 4 and the most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988, killing 259.

Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes; in fact we are still trying to bring these people to trial. These are acts of war.

The wake up alarm is getting louder and louder. The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, two CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.

The following month, February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured. Still this is a crime and not an act of war?

The Snooze alarm is depressed again.

Then in November 1995 a car bomb explodes at a US military complex in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia killing seven service men and women.

A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35 yards from the US military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It destroys the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over 500. The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America does not respond decisively.

They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. These attacks were planned with precision. They kill 224. America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.

The USS Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen for refueling on 12 October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded killing 17 US Navy Sailors. Attacking a US War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

And of course you know the events of 11 September 2001. Most Americans think this was the first attack against US soil or in America. How wrong they are. America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit
the snooze alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from every high officials in government over what they knew and what they didn't know. But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention I think you can see exactly what they knew. You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979.

The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war. I think we have been in a war for the past 23 years and it will continue until we as a people decide enough is enough.

America needs to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now. America has been changed forever. We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure our way of life continues. We cannot afford to keep hitting the snooze button again and again and roll over and go back to sleep.

After the attack on Pearl Harbor, Admiral Yamamoto said "...it seems all we have done is awakened a sleeping giant." This is the message we need to disseminate to terrorists around the world.

Support Our Troops and support President Bush for having the courage, political or militarily, to address what so many who preceded him didn't have the backbone to do both Democrat and Republican. This is not a political thing to be hashed over in an election year this is an AMERICAN thing. This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our children in years to come.

Please forward this to as many people as you can especially to the young people and all those who dozed off in history class and who seem so quick to protest such a necessary military action.

Someone can explain me that moviments like Black Panthers or Nation of Islam in USA with Louis Farrakan , there aren´t any investigation or suspiction of cleaning money for terrorist activities. This guy, is very anti-semitic and is dangerous.
Thank for your answers.

Franz~ that Is a good question and one has to wonder. Not even the Souther Poverty Law Center seems to give them much coverage, they are too busy going after Christians (when the real hate groups are not acting up). I emailed them about several 'hate crimes' which turned out to be faked by the 'victims,' never did receive an answer.

Desperado~ you trust MM over Bush? Repeat after me: Radical Islam Loves Michael Moore.
How does That makes sense to you?

Another good question would be: what does Farakahn, et al, think of Michael Moore? *does a google search* this should be amusing....

It is important to understand how Islamists use political philosophies to push their agenda. I would think that liberals would be the most offended by the Islamic hijacking of their beliefs, but they don't seem to care. Support for illegal aliens, hamstringing the FBI, denigrating American sovereignity all play straight into the hands of the terrorists and liberals trumpet them ceaselessly. The hate-America liberal folks made common cause with the Soviets and then with Arafat, so why is anyone surprised that they now support terrorism in the ways I've described above?

Liberalism as a philosophy is easily hijacked because of what it is. Its megaphones (universities, popular music, the press) disseminate jihad and sympathy for it wider than the cooresponding infection on the right of paleocons and old-line Jew-haters, thus liberalism is more of a problem for America than isolationism and racism.

Fighting jihad is all well and good, but if you do nothing to stop its sympathizers and its dissemination, then you've only put your finger in the leaky dam. The whole network must be disassembled, whether it's PC or not to admit it.

~NMJ

What a bunch of crap. It would take me 10 hours to respond to all your lies, but let me just make a few points.

I COULD call you "Nazis" everytime you call me a "communist."

Perhaps you good people have forgotten Arafat's glowing review of "Passion of the Christ"... Arafat supported the distribution of "Passion of the Christ" in 'palestine', hoping to increase the hatred of Jews. But none of you gave a damn then.

All your arguments lies, and I have proven that on many occasions... like the "... and Clinton did nothing" lies.

Funny how you guys constantly vilify the lib'ruls for coddling terrroists and apologizing for Islam, yet seem to "not notice" when the republicans do the exact same thing, like your President, who held big Ramadan feasts just DAYS after 911.... let a muslims preacher preach first at the 911 memorial day service in the National Cathedral (he turned his lies into a commercial about how great Islam is; whodathunkit?)... and his ass-kissing lies about Islam being "tolerant, respectful, noble, peaceful", etc.

Mike Moore wants the Bushmen to answer some questions that they refuse to answer, like:

Why were Bin Laden's family allowed to fly out of America on 9-12, when the airways were closed, even to rescue teams headed to NYC?

People, we deserve to know the answer to this question. Rush Limbaugh (LOL), Mike Savage, and Sean Hannity DON'T CARE. But "WE" anti-jihadis SHOULD. If you kill TWENTY PEOPLE, the FBI will interview every one of your living relatives... now try 3,500?

LOL... the more you protest against Mike's movie, the more money he's going to make, period. Its human nature... and I have some BAD news for you, sunshine: IF a theater gets attacked and no one will play the movie, Moore will make EVEN MORE money, by selling DVDs.

You can't stop it, just like they couldn't stop Mad Mel's passion play, anti-Jew daydream.

The Sedition Act? Why don't we apply that to the (right-wing, conservative, religious) White Supremecist/separatist movements? Please answer.

davo, why not bring up the conservative, right-wing, religious universities like Bob Jones University, Liberty University, etc?

Do you want a doctor making decisions on your health based on a fairytale? Or science?

I've told you before, if you don't trust "intellectuals" then DON'T GO TO THE DOCTOR... go see youR priest/preacher/mullah.

I had several conservative teachers in college. And I debated several of the lefties on the issue of Israel/"palestine." (see my recent post at dhimmiwatch) They're not as crazy or left-wing as you think. The reason college educators tend to be leftists is because they are VILIFIED by the right wing! AND, if you understand that the earth couldn't possibly be only 6000 years old, that a donkey can't talk, and that sperm is not "seed" but rather "fertilizer" then what political stripe to you think would welcome you?

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Nathan, you are a liar. I've never tried ecstasy, and I haven't even smoked pot in 18 years. I haven't drank alcohol in five years, and haven't drank coffee or caff. soda pop in four years.

"The lefties" worship the lefty celebs like idols? PLEASE... didn't you notice what went on last week? And tell me you don't do the same thing for Bush? (who in turn, does it for the Saudis.)

The University of South Florida has 42,000 students, and offers a class on Marxism once a year (no, I didn't take it) ... you do the math. What am I saying, if you could do math, you wouldn't be so illogical. Let me do it for you: 0.3% of stuDents there take the Marxism class. It isn't even required for the philosophy degree!

Nathan, you don't know jack about philosophy or Marxism, or academia for that matter. You just hate liberals (who by the way, despite your absurd fantasies, are AMERICANS) and everything you know about academia, lib'ruls, and Mike Moore you learn at one of your little hate sites.

The ACLU in Palm Beach County is currently working to block the examination of Rush Limbaugh's medical records! They have fought WITH the NRA for gun rights, and for Christians the handful of times they have actually been oppressed.

An ACLU spokesman was asked why they would defend someone like Rush Limbaugh (for free no less), who's made a substantial fortune out of crticizing the ACLU. He said "We only have one client: the US Constitution."

Susan, you seem to fancy yourself an authority on strange political alliances... were you there in 1968 when the "palestinian" Sirhan Sirhan assassinated RFK and sent Nixon to the White House? How about the Iran/Contra affair, do you remember that? Remember how Bush Sr. pardonded all his co-conspirators before they EVEN STOOD TRIAL? Of course the democratic congress didn't impeach him; they would NEVER embarass a sitting president.
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Susan: Truth hurts, doesn't it Keithie?

Not when you already know it, Susie.
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IMC, if you want a logical discussion, you'll have to email me. But I think it may involve a liberal idealogy that if anyone is suffering, it must be because someone (epseciailly someone close by) is making them suffer. For instance, we know why the Iranians are suffering, because so much of their money goes to the Mullahcracy, who live like kings. We know why the slaves suffered, because the landed gentry of early America wanted to make money at the expense of someone else's labor.

So SOME liberals blame Israel for the suffering of "palestinians" even though its the fault of Arafat (who tells them to fight), Islam (who tells them to have 10, 15, 20 kids) and the ringleaders in Saudi Arabia (who calls all the shots.)

As a liberal, I hate to see the "palestinians" suffer, but as a logical person, I know that Israel isn't to blame. Contrariwise, reading of the Jihad in Sudan makes my blood boil in rage for the mainstream media, left-center-and-right, who refuse to state the simple facts. And let's face it, people... if OJ Simpson's girlfriend were killed tomorrow, we wouldn't hear jack on Israel, Sudan, or Jihad for months.
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Nomorejihad, you are a first-class prick, you know that? I'm going to show you how easy it is to use you own argument agaisnst you.

You seem to have a soft spot for hating your own country, like all CONSERVATIVEs do, "NO MOORE!" JIHAD. Why do you think that the jihadis (OF AFGHANISTAN) loveD REAGAN so much? WHY? It's because they both longED to see AmericaNS in flames. REAGAN attackED from the inside and out; the jihadis attack from inside and out. It's a synergy born of common cause and the goal is to embarass, defeat, malign, and dispirit AmericaNS.

And here's a little experiment for you, since you liars love to try and say that Hitler was a liberal. Go find a Hitler speech online, cut and paste it into a word file. At every occurrence of the word "Jew" change it to "Liberal"... like wise with "Weimarr Republic/Clinton admin.". "liberalism/Judaica" and "Hilary(or Kerry)/Roosevelt." And look what you have: Instant right-wing radio!
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First of all, Ali Dashti, why should I believe someone named Amir Taheri? Who do I look like, Bush, with his undying belief in Ahmed Chalabi (Iranians Shiite spy)? LOL.

Second, I didn't see anyone, Muslim or hippy, wearing a checkered dodad, not once, in seven years of college. And if I did, I would've started wearing a yellow triangle on my shirt pocket and a yarmulke on my head. And I went to the universtity described by Bill O'Reilly (R-Draftdodger) as "a hotbed of Arabic sentiment."

So FOAD, the lot of you.
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Except HVC; thank you for your kind words of support, but this is what they are. They hate liberals as much as the Jihadis, so they try to equate us.

I served my country, in uniform, for four years under Reagan, but they can only say "KJ HATES AMERICA!" They think that every university in America/Europe is JUST LIKE Berkely/UC Irvine. They think everyone to the left of David Duke is a vegan, Earth-Firster, sissified, petulant little shit that hates America, loves Islam, and as Susan said, wants to destroy democracy and America (or something like that.)

I can't keep spending this amount of time arguing with you kids, so please don't think of my silence as a concession to defeat.

And, as always, if anyone has anything constructive to add as to how I can convince more liberals to come over to the anti-jihadi side, please email me. (Still waiting.... sigh.)

Nathan, ever wonder what a 7-year habit of Oxycontin did to Rush's brain? We know it made him thin, and we know it made him deaf.

And Susan, the truth doesn't hurt me; how do your lies feel to you?

Hmmm. I saw NO ONE call you a communist in this thread, KJ. and am willing to BET that it hasn't happened anywhere else. Unless you are speaking of guilt by association? In which case, why do you feel guilty?

You know, when you write For this site, it is pretty good reading, and reasoning. But when you go off the deep end, defending a person who says of his home town 'I don't live there anymore' as his reason for not giving even a Smidgen of his millions to them to help out, one has to wonder why you keep trying to convert liberals (note we spell it Correctly) to this cause.

Hmmm. Went back over a week so far, no mention of 'communist' and 'KeithJoy' in the same post (or breath). the very First one I find is KJ's himself.

I shall keep watch. Not about to waste time looking back further for something I very much doubt I will find.

'It made him thin.' Yep. so why do you and others keep referring to him as fat, if you just admitted this?

Keith, the Left really does have a problem with Islam and all you can do is whine about it instead of trying to fix it. You know what they say at the 12-steppers -- the first step to fixing a problem is recognizing you have one in the first place.

Yes, I was there when Sirhan Sirhan shot RFK -- he didn't do it to put Nixon in the White House. He did it because he hated Israel -- a gold-plated Leftist cause even then. As was the anti-Shah movement of the mid-late '70s.

Dear Citizenoftheworld, your comment:

"I think that we've got to stop arguing about the left or right, and concentrate on the fact that we all oppose Islam. We all need to support each other in this quest. Forget about political allegiances for once."

I think the rather horrifying point people are trying to make here is that NO, WE 'ALL' DON'T OPPOSE ISLAM. In fact, the scary part is that some very powerful totalitarian groups are jumping right in bed with it to get their goals met.

Do you grasp what that means? Many seek the overthrow of the US government and the capitalist system - and will buddy up with any other group that seems to be determined enough to help them in this goal.

Afterwards? I guess they haven't thought that far and don't understand the Jihadists very well. They probably see the terrorists as 'rebels' and freedom fighters, as victims who only want justice and peace.

Isn't that where the left often goes wrong? Refusing to see the responsiblity that humans have for their own condition. Personal accountablilty. Courage. Clear thinking.

No, everyone DOESN'T oppose Islam. That's like saying we all worship the same god.
NO, we don't. Some don't worship a god at all!

The people who continue arguing with (and vilifying) Keithjoy still don't comprehend that "liberals," or so-called "left-wingers" are not monolithic. The FAR LEFT folks are crazier than a bunch of frickin' loons. To equate the far left with the radical Islamists is justified. They're nuts!!
But there are plenty of folks out there who identify themselves as "liberal" or "left of center" and who are in NO WAY in agreement with the far-left basket cases. There are lots of moderates lefties out there who do NOT demonize Israel and who want there to be a peaceful solution (two-states) to the Israel/Palestine issue. There are lots of moderate lefties out there who criticize Dubya's policies while hating Bin Laden and all he stands for. You may agree/disagree with them on lots of stuff (I don't agree with a lot of what they say), but they're not that far removed from the ESSENTIAL positions most posters here take, i.e. Islamism is an extremely dangerous threat and we have to rise to meet the challenge.
Taking the liberty of speaking for Keithjoy (sorry, KJ) I'd venture to say that KJ has more in common with most of the folks on this website than he would with Chomsky! And after all, the Islamists, if they ever saw our internecine squabbles, would delight in seeing us all duking it out amongst ourselves!

I thought something was kinda 'ringie' about ole Keithjoy. In reading/scanning his article(s), I noticed everything and everybody was capitalized, but the word 'Bible' was in lower case. I was hoping that this was just slip of the 'hunt & peck' fingers - but I'm beginning to think his true colors are starting to show thru.

Gary made mention that he 'went back' and searched ... Someone tell me if these articles are Archived - and if so - how do I gain access?

Time here in Ca. is 10:12 am .... Seems like you guys get these newsletters some 3-4 hbours before we get them here. ;^)

Kleo~ 1:26 Eastern time here, about 10 minutes after you posted.

HVC~ Well, truth to tell, I don't think most of those here feel that way about All people on the left. I think Keith is a pretty good guy when he sticks to talking about Islam. It is when he lumps us all together that he gets lumped back.

Btw, Keith~ Mel's movie The Passion of the Christ doesn't seem to have launched wave after wave of anti-semitism- In fact the numbers coming from surveys show that people felt LESS Likely to be so, after they saw it. The message WAS about Jesus after all, not who did what to him. That is what is has always been.

But did you seriously expect a Hate-Monger terrorist like Arafat to Not take advantage of it?

erf, sorry for the extra space taken up. Kleo, look down the left side of either JW or DW and you will see Monthly links.

I am a 'liberal'. I don't like George Bush ideologically or even personally. And I think this site is one of the most important ones on the Internet. I also think Michael Moore is egotistical and irresponsible in making this film, which is for the most part speculation; this film will do nothing to help protect us, and it will help our real enemies. Did you read the 9/11 commision report? Hezbollah helped al Qaeda in the Khobar Towers attack and probably in many other ways as well.

I do not see a problem with posting this article. Liberals and conservatives should be mindful of what we say and not aid the enemy: together we must recognize that we are in fact at war and the survival of our nation as we know it is at stake. My social, economic and political views are on the left, but the perception that we are at war with Islamic forces of Jihad is right in the middle straight and true, I believe. And every American should see it for what it is and alter their political behavior accordingly.

@ Gary: it's not important if radical islamists like Michael Moore or not; simply because that says absolutely nothing about MM himself. Saddam Hoessein liked Frank Sinatra... does that make Sinatra an evil man? I don't think so.

Anyhow, MM does not like radical islamists, something you should know when you have seen his movies or read his books. Radical islamists are extremely conservative, rightwinged, anti-liberal and anti-america. Michael Moore is extremely progressive, leftwinged, pro-liberal *and* pro-america (but anti-Bush). You see the difference?

Bush however, he is very fond of Islam, he even thinks the Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance! How does *that* makes sense to you?

Desperado~ I don't think they like Michael Moore at all. I wouldn't doubt that he is high up on their list of people to behead, along with the like of Barbara Streisand and Alec Baldwin.

On the other hand, I think Bush Does know the truth about islam- but also knows he can't _quite_ afford to say it out loud. He is either overplaying his hand or setting things up so that it is Demanded of him (or Kerry) that something be done after/if the next attack (comes). Remember, Churchill had to keep his silence that the Nazi codes had been broken, and a whole city suffered for it- but it was the only way to set things up to Go After the nazis. If they had had Any indication we knew what they were up to... it could have been disaster.

Talk about your shades of gray... that one was pretty dark.

Btw, buying a Sinatra CD is not the same thing as helping someone get people to push the 'vote' button in the US. That decision is entirely up to the voter, not MM and those who would support him overseas.

And I have something to add: since this is WW3 (see Onesandzeroes' posting), I so also want to compare 'the war against terror' with WW2.

What would the Americans have thought if president Roosevelt (in 1940) would have said something like: "national-socialism is a political system of peace and tolerance" and: "national-socialism means peace" ???

Because if people here believe Islam is the enemy, why are you supporting someone who says the enemy is about peace and tolerance? Why do you support someone who's misleading you all?

Well, one of Bush his old advisors wrote a book about the fact Bush dit *not* know the danger of Al Qaida and radical islamists. And if Bush cannot say the truth about Islam out loud, than that's still no reason to lie against the American people! Since now he's misleading many Americans by saying Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance.

Some folks here say 'Islam' is the enemy. Spencer's book says no such thing. The enemy is 'the forces of Jihad'. That's concerns a lot of different stuff including canonical texts and the religion of Islam generally.

And Bush is an idiot with regard to defining the enemy. And he does sell-out to Saudi Arabia in many ways. And there are some very difficult political channels to be navigated by a president from either party: unless we are all willing to stop driving our cars and live in poverty. We have to start looking at this in a bi-partisan way. Moore is aiding forces that would have his head, and will, if they get their way. We need to come together and form cohesive, well thought out policies based on an identification of the real enemy to our society.

"And Bush is an idiot with regard to defining the enemy."

And Kerry and Mrs. Heinz-57 are better? The same Mrs. Heinz-57 who gives big bucks to Islamist "charities"?

And how about Hillary wearing her hijab and inviting Muslims into the White House for Ramadan dinners?

How about Hillary sitting on her ass and saying nothing while Suha Terror-fat lied that Israel was using chemical weapons against the Palestinians?

How about Madeleine All-dumb turning down the chance to bag bin Laden in 1996 when the Sudanese offered him up?

How about the millions of dopey Euro-leftists who want to negotiate "peace" with Al-Qaeda, and who think that Bush is a bigger enemy than Bin Laden?

This response commits the fallacy of false dilemma. The idiocy of Bush does not imply the brilliance of Kerry or Hillary on this issue.

I am in favor of pulling this issue, the issue of war against the Jihadis, completely out of partisan politics. This false dilemma is an example of what to avoid in achieving that...as well as the other stuff posted by folks of liberal bent above.

I just about laughed myself out of my chair when reading KJ's comments. Coming unhinged there, man?
Repeating your statements in CAPS doesn't really do much to bolster your image as an erudite, learned man. I think that little fantasy is slowly coming unwoven post by post.

It's still too bad that you can't quite grasp how easily liberalism is exploited by the jihadis, as a philosophy. And why can it be? Because it's fundamentally at odds with the structure, the history, and the purpose of the U.S. government. (Big government -> more taxes -> less freedom -> Shia law, in a nutshell.)

Desperado: Islam is about as right-winged as your average left turn. It's conservative but not conservative as far as American politics/morality goes. Using the same word to mean two separate things breeds confusion. But you knew that, didn't you?

~NMJ

TR:

"This response commits the fallacy of false dilemma. The idiocy of Bush does not imply the brilliance of Kerry or Hillary on this issue."

Well, I agree with you on that, but why are the attacks only being slanted at Bush?

At least Bush knows there's SOME kind of problem out there that threatens us. He amy not be doing the right thing, but at least he's clued into the fact that these folks are trying to kill us.

Kerry doesn't have a clue. He wants to make nice with the Euro-dhimmies and adopt their cowardly "mulitaleral" approach to Islamofascism -- pass hate speech laws, give special privileges to US Muslims to buy their loyalty, focus on fighting Isalmofascism with "peaceful" means like dhimmi-boy Zapatero (i.e. giving them 10 months of community service for plotting to blow up a church or two).

Anybody who counsels closer relations with the morally bankrupt Euro-dhimmies is clueless, for one. At least Bush is not trying to do that.

All right, Keithjoy.

Let’s dance. You wanted to know:

Why were Bin Laden's family allowed to fly out of America on 9-12, when the airways were closed, even to rescue teams headed to NYC?

Do you really want the answer to that question?

"Former counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke says he is solely responsible for allowing members of Osama bin Laden's family to flee the United States immediately after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

"'I take responsibility for it. I don't think it was a mistake, and I'd do it again," Clarke told The Hill newspaper yesterday."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38669

So Keith, how are you going to spin this one?

Oh and one more thing, KeithJoy...please get your facts straight. I've seen "The Passion" twice. The first time I was looking for all the supposed anti-semetism that liberals like you said was under every rock (some even said that WITHOUT having seen the movie). Guess what? There wasn't any anti-semitism there. If Araft embraced "The Passion" he did so foolishly, because the movie vividly depicts what Islamists call blasphemy. *laughs*

~NMJ

Maybe you're right about Kerry. I don't know. He hasn't articulated any clear policies on this as far as I can tell. He is just fishing for a campaign angle that 'looks respectable' in some odd sense of that term. He looks confused to me, as is most of America. And Bush looks confused, too.

We need to get unconfused. No more partisan debates. Bush should admit: "Its tough out there and I made some mistakes, but we have to get clearer on who we are fighting" and Kerry has to say "You're right about that, and no matter who is elected let go for it". That's what should happen, and it takes voters like you and me saying something to get it off the ground and get it out there. That's all I am trying to do.

So, does Lon use the Micheal Moore method?

Toilet brush wrapped in toilet paper?

Keithejoy, Nathan, a few others, calm down, please. I DON'T think KJ's a terrorist-hugging radical, OK? And, BTW, I suspect Nathan's a Canadian (not that I have anything at all against Canadians).

Yes, I'm a Bible-thumping conservative Christian (and I know that a donkey can't talk, or a man can't survive being swallowed by a big fish, and a virgin can't bear a child--so when these things happen in an age without scientific helps, I sit up and take notice of the great power of God). Yes, I also recognize that there are Aryan Nations types who love anyone who hates the JOOOOOZ enough, too--and I applaud law enforcement practicing surveillance on them. OK?

Further, I'm not surprised that some Arab- or other Muslim Americans, including the nasties, voted for Bush: they belong to a business-oriented, anti-abortion community, and that goes for immigrant Buddhists, too. 我自己認識不少這類的人,而且,用他們自己的語言跟他們溝通--普通華與客家話都可以. AND, should anyone (probably not you, KJ), ask why immigrants vote, I do note that the USA has naturalization laws that allow lots of people to obtain citizenship without abandoning native languages and diets (both of my parents, God rest them, came from households where non-English languages were spoken)--and that a large number of these naturalized folks are far better Americans than many of the native-born!

BUT there is a clear link between the immoderate Left (NOT all Kerryites--even if I am voting for Bush)and the Islamicist crazies. It also seems that this link is especially pronounced in Europe (as noted by some of our interlocutors) and on a lot of campuses.

AND, for the record, I have been called a racist and a fascist for defending Israel's surgical strikes against Hamas; questioning tenets of multi-culturalism; etc.--Also, I've been called racist simply because I read the King James Bible and go to church on Sunday!

There's plenty of mud to throw around in all directions. I'm going led it stay on the ground.

Yes, Air and Fathead (Arafat)did encourage Mel Gibson's _Passion_. Yet as someone who watched it, I couldn't help notice the following:

(1) Gibson's use of Aramaic and Latin in the dialogue (without the Greek Koine of the time) made it clear that Jesus and his Apostles were all Jews (did you catch the dissents of Nicodemus and Joseph of Armimathea--complete with robes, jewels, and beard--in the Sanhedrin scene?). The Gospels make the same point, only on the first page, since they were written in Greek rather than square-letter Aramaic.

(2) Gibson shows that Jesus DIED on the cross, whereas the Qu'ran denies it (Nisaa/4:157)--also, while I'm fundamentalist enough to mistrust too much liberty with the Book, I thought Gibson's showing Satan howling in defeat in the middle of the desert after Jesus died a masterful and justifiable touch.

(3) Gibson showed his own hands driving the nails into Christ's. Hence, he knows the part his own sins had in deicide. No, I don't think he's blaming the Jews.

(4) Notice how Simon of Cyrene and St. Veronica (the latter a figure from medieval legend, not the Gospels) are Jewish, too?

I heard that when _The Passion_ was shown in Qatar, or one of those more open Gulf countries, a largely Arab audience wept. I sincerely pray that if some of those people go and read the New Testament, and get worked on by the Holy Spirit, they'll find that we Christians are holding open a door rather than brandishing clubs over their heads.

Americans should be petitioning their governments to allow christians to evangalise in Islamic countries. That seems to me to be the only way in which the terrorist threat will be defused.

Americans should be petitioning their governments to allow christians to evangalise in Islamic countries. That seems to me to be the only way in which the terrorist threat will be defused.

Kph (Overseas Yank), Gee, whatever gave you the clue I'm Canadian eh? Perhaps reciting my oath of allegiance to the Queen I posted in a thread above when I joined the Canadian army 25 years ago?
Being Canadian doesn't change my opinion of Micheal Moore, nor does it change my opinion of crasy Lefties, even though I live in somewhat lefty land. It's not always lefty land, Only when it's forced on us. Usually we are quite conservative. Canadians are swing voters, we often completely change our government. We don't like any of them after they have been in power a while.

So Moore is now visiting Canada and telling us to not vote a Conservative party into power
on our June 28 election.
He portrays the anti-terrorist Stephen Harper
as being too close to Bush,what he doesn't
realize is thousands of Canadians fought and
died in two world wars so a slob like him could
bash his Government.
The support he lends to out Liberal's is really tragic,a pedophile murder was convicted this week and said kiddie-porn consumed him with lust for
little girls.The Liberal's allowed a Al-Quaida
linked family to re-enter Canada even though
they praised the 911 attack as being deserved
because all the persons pay taxes that go to Israel to buy arms that kill Muslims.
When a Judge ruled some kiddie-porn was legal
becuase it was protected under the Charter of Rights as having "artistic Merit" ,Liberal's
allowed it to stand,prisoners now have the right to vote while in jail,Muslim's will be allowed to have Sharia Law as their court system,Liberal's force taxpayers to fund abortion yet are against
the Death-penalty because it's cruel.

Mr.Moore thinks his version of reality is correct,except he's surrounded by the "Artsie fartsie" types that have lived off their parents and now Government handouts.
The conseratives want less public money going to
arts & culture projects that very few people
watch or support,Canadian's aren't responsible for make-work programs to the artistic crowd of
Nabob's and intellects .

If Moore was on any of the hijacked planes he'd be the first to wet his pants and then hide behind the female passengers,now if only we could get him to just one of those Islamic country's he
sees as the victim of the Bush Government.
Maybe he can show his Oscar before they hack his head off,although very few people will be wanting to pick up his body from where it is dropped off.

Being new to this site, I find that there is enough annimosity and hate to go around in here alone. Most people have the same agenda, and those who choose a different path are welcome to it. No, I am not a liberal, so before you go there be sure you know what I represent. For myself I believe that differences of opinion are what this country was founded on. If you think that the film Moore has directed is supported by the Bad people, so what. Do you think this keeps Moore up at night? I do not. He is entitled to say and produce anything that he wants. What country are we living in? Last I looked it was a free country. If we do not approve of what our nieghbor does, maybe we should try to talk to them. Or do you think that a fight would be more in order. The constant insults, the battering of others because we do not choose their views is what has led this world into a hate driven thought pattern. I do not have the answers, nor does anyone here that I have read. I can not even see the the Government giving out anything that is promising. I do know one thing, If we continue on this distructive path, it will be too late. There is always hope. I start with my own. My child.

Kim, it doesn't help when people like Moore add fuel to the fire. Opinion should be based on fact, not fiction. Some people believe his worthless rants, which adds fuel to the fire. Teachers are teaching their own worthless opinion to students, which is not only biased, but WRONG. It adds fuel to the fire. Freedom was fought for and must be defended constantly from those who wish to revisit trials of the past.

Keithjoy,

If you think that the killing of Jesus was ant-semitic, it just shows your lack of understanding.. I Killed Jesus, It was my sins that nail him to that cross.. Ro 2:19 "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay" says the Lord.. In 70 AD he did repay them. Its not our job to murder people in the name of our God. Islam is the opposite. They are told to murder the "people of the book". Any and all Americans and Jews will be seen as "people of the book". It should would suck to be killed for something you dont even believe in. Christians get a really big blessing when they are persecuted. We do have a right to protect our selfs. There are no atheist in fox holes. Jihad will make sure of it.

The liberals version of freedom. They say what ever they want. Make any kinda of moive thay want. And if you play the critic they scream foul. Where is the right to free speech for the critic. Seems like the libs dont want you to have one. Sounds kinda like a version Islam to me! Its like Jane Fonda all over again. Now he/shes just big fat and really ugly with know talent. Freedom of speech has its consequences.