This attack is astonishingly repugnant. Six armed men against one young woman with a baby. Sick, sick, sick! Another case of "brave" Islamic men doing what they do best - attacking helpless individuals in large groups. Oooh, brave Muslim men! Just like your "prophet".

Good luck, France. You've obviously got into bed with a VD infested whore who'll cut your throat not long from now.

Posted by: feralee at July 11, 2004 7:59 AM

With such a large population of Muslims, de Villepin has his work cut out to contain them let alone anything else. Anyone who has seen the culture of France would hate to see it destroyed,the wonderful buildings, food and wine and traditions.Yet, I fear even now, La Belle France is already under attack by Islamic fanatics
who want to detonate her statues and architecture[as the Taleban did to Bamiyam Buddhas] reduce chic Frenchwomen[some of the best dressed in the world] to being second class citizens , covered
head to foot in tent like burkas. Not sure about the men.After all as Reza informs us, stoning is still practised in Islam. Hopefully, even the most rabid fundamentalist is not into creating eunuchs...But one can't be sure.

Posted by: Morgane at July 11, 2004 8:10 AM

Another islamic hate crime.
Isnt it amazing that our govts. will almost turn
a blind eye to these types of crimes perpetrated
by muslims. But if muslims are attacked; HO BOY!
watch out. Heads are gonna roll! Im sick of this double standard that is being imposed on us.

Posted by: sgt_shultz at July 11, 2004 9:03 AM

This article appears to be crude propaganda designed to incite fear and hatred of Muslims. To begin with, the men are identified as being "of North African origin." They may not even have been Muslim.

Even if we assume, arguendo, that the men were Muslim, what information do we have about the circumstances of the incident? Did the woman insult them, either verbally, by gestures, or perhaps by her facial expressions? Did she intentionally obstruct their path? Was she dressed indecently or provocatively? Did she openly display symbols of anti-Muslim hatred?

Presumably there were many other people on the train. Why, if the incident was unprovoked, did they not come to the aid of the "victim"? Supposedly the men were armed with knives, yet the woman was unharmed.

It is clear that there was more to this incident than was reported.

Allahu akbar

Posted by: Reza at July 11, 2004 10:44 AM

Reza:

Once again Reza, your blind allegiance to Islam prevents you from recognizing reality, allowing you to attack the messengers of truth with your hate and hostility. You flagrantly construct scenarios to support the illusion that if Muslims were involved that they must have had a good reason for their actions but expend little energy to explore the converse; that they were acting in a criminal way towards the victim while under the same illusion that you labor under, that what ever a Muslim does must be good and right because it is deemed so by Allah.

Stick to the facts of the story as presented. That's all any of us has with which to work. Your unflagging apologetic support of Islam is a self-serving hostile and racist attack on all non-Muslims.

If you can say, "Presumably there were many other people on the train. Why, if the incident was unprovoked, did they not come to the aid of the 'victim'? Supposedly the men were armed with knives, yet the woman was unharmed."

One could also say that all others present were Muslim too, and that a clear headed Imam stopped them as they were about to behead the victim and her 13 month old child by telling the Muslim criminals that they had a misguided understanding of Islam in the context of the 21st Century.

This last has as much existential truth-value as your angry and hateful hypothesizing does.

Posted by: panos at July 11, 2004 11:45 AM

Had they had a "make my day" law, there would be six dead muslims, that is, if the other French cowards on the train had the guts and guns to enforce it.

Posted by: Imam_Nathan at July 11, 2004 12:00 PM

reza the Borg master said, ” It is clear that there was more to this incident than was reported.”

Once again, your lack of reasoning ability is showing. To suggest that a physical assault on a woman with a young baby is a reasonable response to a look or an obstructed path or to any of the other things you mention is to live in a fantasy world where much pot is consumed on a regular basis.

“Your grandchildren will defend young women and babies against islamo thugs.”

Posted by: Sheik canuck at July 11, 2004 12:16 PM

What color was these North Afrekan men? I didn't see that posted anywhere.

Posted by: kleo at July 11, 2004 1:31 PM

"Did the woman insult them, either verbally, by gestures, or perhaps by her facial expressions? Did she intentionally obstruct their path? Was she dressed indecently or provocatively? Did she openly display symbols of anti-Muslim hatred?"

Reza:

Much to your dismay I'm sure, France is still a free country. This woman can dress any way she pleases and it's none of anyone's business. Anyone including the Muslim population. I'm sure you all are working on changing that.

If she did any of these minor irritations, IF, doesn't your religion have anything to say to the followers of it to just turn away and go in peace rather than drawing knives and rending her clothes asunder so she can be naked to the world instead of fully clothed?

Posted by: Whistling Dixie at July 11, 2004 1:49 PM

Reza is right!
They were probably N. African White Supremists.

Posted by: sgt_shultz at July 11, 2004 1:54 PM

I saw this report on the Fox news ticker though it did not indicate the men were Muslims.Given that the men were North African they were certainly not Nazi skinheads.These attacks are almost carried out by Muslims with Nazis now involved in only a few attacks. There was also another report on Fox that identified the attackers of a 14 year old girl in Kashmir as Muslims. The girl was kidnapped and had her nose, ears and tougue cut off by these animals. Her crime, she was a suspected informer.Can you imagine mutilating a young girl in that manner? I can't imagain anyone but savages doing such a thing.You have to wonder why Muslim males are so cowardly and dishonorable that they attack women and children in groups.They're apparently too weak to take on a woman, infant or child alone.

Posted by: Roxane at July 11, 2004 1:59 PM

The pro-Islamists at the BBC surprisingly actually reported this story but put their usual biased slant on it. They also called the attackers "North African" but then switched into their usual "poor innocent Muslims" propaganda by saying that "rascists" (in BBC speak that can only mean white people) in France had damaged both Jewish and Muslim graves. The icing on the cake was their claim that there is "tension between Muslims and Jews in France because of the Middle East situation". So, according to the BBC hundreds of Muslim attacks on Jews are actually "tension" between the two groups - as though both sides are equally to blame. I can just see the current BBC reporting on "tensions between Nazis and Jews" in 1930s Germany.

Posted by: Son Of Albion at July 11, 2004 2:11 PM

It´s rubbish to see people like Reza justifying this act of racism and antisemitism, I´m tired of people like you. Coming back to saudi Arabia, this isn´t a land for people for who want the sharia, NO,NO,NO

Posted by: Franze at July 11, 2004 3:25 PM

What a bunch of brave jihadis, six young men against a 23-year-old girl with a baby in a stroller!

I can't imagine Brits, Australians, Americans or even Canadians witnessing such a scene and doing nothing to stop it. The French are truly something else.

Posted by: Suzan at July 11, 2004 3:33 PM

reza,

I really doubt that a lone woman with a 13 month baby is going to deliberatively antagonize six men.

If she did "obstruct" their path - after all, she WAS armed with a baby carriage, the proper response among civilized people is, "Oops. Excuse me.", not an armed assault.

So, blame the victim.

jay

Posted by: jay at July 11, 2004 3:36 PM

There are stories that never make it to the American press, about events in France, and there are stories about events in France that never make it even into the French press. (Such, for example, as the fact that Chirac has a Muslim grandchild -- the product of a liaison between his daughter, and close adviser, Claud, with the brother of a judoka, a French national champion in fact, one Djemal Boussa if I remember the spelling correctly).

Here is one such: at Floing, near Sedan, a celebrated statue of Mary and the infant Jesus that survived the Revolution, and located in Notre Dame de Consolation, several weeks ago was discovered to have been the victim of vandalism. The hands of Jesus and Mary were cut off. In the past week, those vandals returned, and decapitated both Mary and the baby Jesus. It is clear, from the reports, who the vandals were -- people who are not foreign to decapitation of sheep, or if one has been reading the papers, or for that matter the Qur'an or hadith, those guides to good living, of humans either.

Statuary of course, is absolutely forbidden in Islam -- unless, as Qaradawi notes in his Wal Haram fil Halal, those stuates have been defaced or damaged so as to no longer be "worthy of respect." That, it seems, is what the vandals who decapitated Jesus and Mary in Floing were doing -- making the statuees acceptable, since they lacked the means the Taliban used to such splendid effect in blowing up the Bamiyan Buddhas.

The full story can be found at www.france-echos.com, along with many similar stories that tell truths about France today that the French Embassy would prefer that Americans not know about (and the French government would prefer that the French not know about either, come tp think of it). Just go to that site, and then click on the story "La Vierge et l'enfant Jesus decapites."

And then, while you are at it, if you have some French, read around a bit.

You will be surprised. And not, as the traditional adverb would have it, pleasantly.

Posted by: Hugh at July 11, 2004 3:39 PM

Reza,
How I wish I can locate your address and give you a counter attack just as that woman was given.....

However, we christians are not a like that, we serve a true God that is loving, truly merciful, and longsuffering....
It is now glaring how silly you are. An innocent 23-year old woman against 6 stupid-idiots who call themselves men.... and to further add insult to injury they are muslims.....
I guess: Is it when they are carrying the stupid koran that you will know that they are muslims?
You need to open your closed eyes to reality...
Gone are the days of Napoleon of France....
I weep for France because of the evil they have accommodated (the muslims)....

Posted by: Dase at July 11, 2004 5:21 PM

Reza
You are mouthing opinions formed from disgusting
Sharia Law[thank you Mentat] which one of your'clerics' al Qardawi has been spouting through Islamonline.Nice man, you must be proud of him! If you are a woman you have every reason to be afraid.Remember, as a woman 'you will have to prove you are of good character if you are raped.'Also that'you did not incite your rapists by your dress [obviously an inch of ankle showing is provocation enough ]or by facial expression or gesture.' When they take you out for stoning
on some trumped up charge because your husband wants a newer, more nubile wife, you'll have the consolation of knowing it was all done in the name
of Allah!

Posted by: Morgane at July 11, 2004 6:34 PM

Roger Cukierman, Chairman of Crif, has the most significant comment in this article from the Jerusalem Post on the attack:

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1089516099595&apage=1

Roger Cukierman, Chairman of CRIF, the umbrella body politically representing French Jews, said, "We know that the French government is up in arms against anti-Semitism. We would like the civil society to do the same. Because judges reject cases brought against perpetrators of anti-Semitic acts or aggressions, those people feel they enjoy a total impunity. It is now up to the imams and the Muslim leaders to speak out and firmly condemn anti-Semitism. If they fail to do so, the civilian peace is at stake", said Cukierman.

The civilian peace is at stake. What does that mean? That means Jews are going to take matters into their own hands. That means Jews are not going to stand idly by while they are being attacked. The french equivalent of the Jewish Defence League will be started. France will descend into chaos as a mini-civil war begins. Soon, France will resemble Algeria. This fate awaits all nations who import Muslims. As many Muslims as possible must be deported now and zero immigration allowed.

Here is the website of the Jewish Defence League:

http://www.jdl.org/

NEVER AGAIN! Do you Muslims get the picture? And for the record, I am not Jewish nor am I religious.

Posted by: Mentat at July 11, 2004 7:54 PM

to those on the train with the mother and child

How sad that the mother and child,
are attacked and hurt,
real victims of violence,
who are then condemned to pain
by your spiritless,
nilhist anarchy,
your absolute lack of empathy,
for the ageless victims,
a woman and her child...

Is this how much you hate your mother,
hate yourself, the lost child of privilege?
Do you whine because your world is not perfect,
because your vanity covers over
your lack of humanity?

I cry for your cowardice,
for your fear and timidity,
for your sacrilege
of dismissing right and wrong,
your action not of commission
but ommission,
your ignorance of the absolute,
your confusion over reality.
I cry because you are not
one of the Free anymore.

Posted by: the poetess at July 11, 2004 9:43 PM

Does France have hate crime laws? It is incidents like this that should force France to adopt hate crime legislation if it does not have it already.

Posted by: Christian at July 11, 2004 10:52 PM

The woman is a victim twice.

Once from the savage barbaric teachings of Islam,

and a second time by cowardly Frencemen, who refused to defend her honor. Once a coward always a coward. Surrender monkeys.
France ceased to exist long ago. And it stinks like a urnal worse than ever in Paris.

Posted by: Imam_Nathan at July 12, 2004 1:40 PM

http://www.iht.com/articles/528938.html
The International Herald Tribune describes what happened to a woman on a commuter train north of Paris.

The woman was mistakenly identified as a Jew by six men of North African and African origin, who surrounded the victim in what at first appeared to be an attempt to steal her stroller ... One of them said, 'She's a rich kid.' And then he added, 'There are only Jews in the 16th,'" the police spokesman said. "Nothing in the name of the young woman or where she lives has any Jewish character," the spokesman added. The attackers cut the victim's clothing, slightly wounding her in the process, and cut off a lock of her hair, "as a souvenir," one of the attackers is reported to have said. After slashing the stroller, the six attackers overturned it. The baby fell to the ground and suffered a mild bruise, the police said. The men stole a credit card and E200 from the woman, before getting off the train after it pulled into Sarcelles, which is about 17.4 kilometers, or 11 miles, from Paris.
About 20 people saw what happened, but none came to the aid of the victim, the police said, adding that only two passengers approached afterward.

Winston Churchill once advised:

"If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a small chance of survival. There may even be a worse case: you may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."

But first you must decide never to live as a slave.

Posted by: Imam_Nathan at July 12, 2004 1:52 PM

Christian, France does have "hate crime" and "hate speech" laws. They are not enforced when the victims are "only" Jews. They are over-enforced when the "victims" are Muslims -- the political allies of the Establishment Left which runs most institutions in Europe.

Posted by: Suzan at July 12, 2004 2:23 PM

I notice on the CNN news site all reference to the attackers being North african have been edited out. Instead the piece concentrates on attacks against both Muslims and Jews. The obvious idea is to make everyone think that it must be white neo-Nazis carrying out these attacks. God forbid that the media could ever dare point the finger of blame at the Islamofascists.How much longer will the liberal and media elite bury their heads in the sand?

Posted by: Son Of Albion at July 12, 2004 3:16 PM

Iman Nathan,
Thanks for the churchill's comments.
You see, I do not know, but to me I think people in the west are always afraid, afraid of confrontation, afraid to talk, afraid of other persons etc. I guess they need to read the bible very well and see for themselves what David told Goliath ( an uncircumcised Philistine!) and what the men of Jabesh-Gilead did when asked to give up their rights.
A typical muslim will always claim that his/her religion is his/her culture you cannot separate it from him/her either at work place or in social gathering. Muslims always want to be respected, to be feared etc... WHY? Are they not human beings, do they have two heads?...
But on the other hand they do not care about other human lives, females are treated as inferiors etc
Please America, Canada, Isreal and England,
DO NOT BE AFRAID TO SPEAK, PLEASE SPEAK OUT THIS IS NOT A TIME FOR DIPLOMACY, THIS IS TIME FOR ACUTE CONFRONTATION, WE IN AFRICA ARE LOOKING UP TO YOU...PLEASE SPEAK...

Posted by: Dase at July 12, 2004 7:11 PM

"North African" is probably an english translation of the vernacular french expression, "pied-noir" (black feet). It usually means someone from Algeria. I lived in Toulouse for three years during the early 1980s and the Algerians were migrating to France at a very high rate, so by now they must be a significant plurality. It would not be surprising to learn that they might outnumber migrants from other European countries by now.

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at July 12, 2004 10:46 PM

Reports this morning suggest that the reported attack was a hoax, and that the putative victim had made other reports in the past, not with North African Muslims (which is "maghrebin" is understood to mean, though literally it simply means those who come from the Maghreb, or North Africa), about violence. No doubt this will lead to a brouhaha from organized Islam, claiming that it is one more example of a witch-hunt, and "hysteria" and suchlike. Nonsense. There will always be an irreducible minimum, when tens of millions of people are now involved, of mistakes in police work, of false or overstated charges, and so on. And there will also be a real threat -- which is why, if the charge was false, it was so quickly believed. Indeed, that Jacques Chirac himself reacted to the initial report, shows that it was not at all difficult to believe, knowing what he knows goes on in France every day, all over the place.

So while this story may be false, this should not be permitted to be waved as a kind of all-purpose example of Muslim innocence. There may well be, for example, a case or two that is brought in the United States in which those charged will not be convicted. That could reflect innocence. It could reflect a case poorly presented. It could reflect a biased jury (cf. O. J. Simpson, still free to look for the "real killer"). But there are many cases in France, and the French authorities know this perfectly well, of Muslim aggressions that are unreported, or underreported (a single mention in a single local paper, for example). And that needs to be kept firmly in mind.

Posted by: Hugh at July 13, 2004 10:11 AM

In other news, this website has been reported to be a hoax. The authors of this website have admitted, indirectly, through their baseless and emotional claims, that their writings are basically madeup.

Upon hearing this news, the author and copyright holder of the saying, "A drowning man grabs at a straw", has designated this website's adherrents as a prime example of his saying.

Cumon sensica, attorney general at large, has opened an inquiry regarding the false statements reported on this website. He is reported as saying, "This website has caused an esteemed poet, the poetess, to write a poem that does not know to whom it was written because of the direct consequences of this website's attachement to straws".

It is not known whether the poet in question will sue due to her wasting her time, effort and imagination on something that was imagined.

Posted by: truthseeker at July 15, 2004 10:32 AM

seeker, you sure as hell aren't after Truth. And if your friends do anything worse than 911 to us, you won't be able to find Truth at Mecca.

You won't be able to Find mecca.

Posted by: Gary at July 15, 2004 2:57 PM