Let me get this straight: "There are fears" that the BNP will hold a counter rally, but not any fears that this group of fascist Muslim supremacists are breaking the law and inciting hatred of other religions?

Mercy me.

Posted by: Suzan at July 23, 2004 2:09 PM

Suzan: They also talk about "race riots", when it really is about Fascism and terrorism. Islamists have been operating freely from Londonistan for years. Looks like this only becomes a problem when somebody talks back.

Posted by: Ali Dashti at July 23, 2004 2:19 PM

I wonder if they'd disban after they were pelted in their sorry asses with a few thousand rubber bullets.

This would be a great time to see how many idiots they could fit in a jail cell.

Posted by: DCWatson at July 23, 2004 2:54 PM

Aha, as a visitor to 'El Margarine' site know these lovely 'peaceful Muslims ask questions such
as: Is it okay to bomb Kuffar - Answer is 'YES'
Do we have to practise Jihad against Kuffar?[in Britain] - Answer is 'Yes.'
These answers are always backed by numerous texts
from the Qur'an. IF THIS ISN'T INCITING SOMEONE TO KILL,WHAT IS??
Why hasn't the BBC done an undercover investigation on this lot!!

Posted by: Morgane at July 23, 2004 3:52 PM

What we all need is an anti-Islamic party which is not racist, sexist, homophobic, or xenophobic. This should be open to EVERYONE who opposes Islam, regardless of whether they are left wing, right wing, socialist or conservative, gay, or whatever.
Surely there are enough of us to create such a party.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 23, 2004 5:24 PM

Morgane,

The BBC is a propaganda tool for the Islamo-fascists.

If you monitor their reports you will hear their left wing liberal spin on these issues. They are always portraying the Muslims as oppressed people, by the west.

Futhermore their reports concerning the Israel-Palistinian conflict, favors the cause of the terrorists.Don't expect to get any unbiased information from these pc wankers.

I'm sure Rikki and the other Britts would confirm this.

It seems most of Europe is being over run by these Islamo-bastards.

I believe you are in Canada, I would be interested to know how badly this cancer is spreading there.

Here in the States they are breeding like cockroaches.

Posted by: Son of Infidel at July 23, 2004 5:36 PM

Voltaire,

Your suggestion is absurd, surley you jest.

Please explain in futher detail this brilliant idea of yours.

PS, I think maybe you have been smoking the same "dope" as Kj.

PSS, Whats with the "homophobic" remark,are you watching those "gay" American Tv shows.

Posted by: Son of Infidel at July 23, 2004 5:46 PM

Son of Infidel
Am living in New Zealand.Went overseas for five years.When I left there was virtually none in my
home town now there are 500 and a mosque at the University funded I believe, by Saudi Arabia.We have Japanese,Chinese and Coptic Christians who
INTEGRATE and are welcome.The other lot keep to themselves. At the moment N.Z.'s Muslim popn stands about 30,000,I believe...

Posted by: Morgane at July 23, 2004 6:07 PM

Voltaire is right. The "Islam" issue has to be separated from the irrelevant threads that it attaches to in woolly minds. The majority in the "west" (anglosphere plus western europe) are miserably undereducated about this thing. History isn't bunk, its a complete mystery to the poor things.

Voltaire: keep digging the garden, and encourage the others! They might get it, if there's enough time.

Posted by: Sam Roony at July 23, 2004 6:09 PM

Morgane,

Thirty thousand, thirty thousand too many.
I'm sorry to hear that,although I am not surprized

The Saudis, with their billions in oil money, have for years, been exporting the evil and poisionous wahabbism throughout the world.

Seventy to eighty percent of the mosques in the States have been funded by them.

The malignant cancerous tumor of "Islam" ,spreads infecting the body of the world.

Posted by: Son of Infidel at July 23, 2004 6:26 PM

Voltaire might be on to something. I know several leftish friends who are concerned about Islam but don't know who to vote for to change things. They think the BNP are too rascist, the Tories too anti-working class, the Lib Dems too pro-Islam and New Labour too slimey. Maybe a single issue party could work but it would have to be put together pretty bloody quickly.

Posted by: Son Of Albion at July 23, 2004 6:35 PM

Look, we're all living in different countries, all over the world. Get together with your friends and just call yourself The Anti-Islamic Party (of whatever country that you live in.)

Even if there are only two or three of you, that's something. Put yourselves into the phone book as The Anti-Islamic Party, even if it's a home phone number.

Don't worry if you don't any have money, don't worry if you don't have an office. Do it from home, JUST DO IT!!!!!

Don't wait for some-one else to do it, just do it yourself.

Remember: a journey of a thousand miles, begins with a single step.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 23, 2004 7:02 PM

Sam looney,

Your comments only show, your intellectual snobbery.

Do you reside in the west or in a third world country?

Posted by: Son of Infidel at July 23, 2004 7:07 PM

Son of Infidel

The clock towards Islamic domination is ticking all the time. Don't waste our time with meaningless platitudes. Get on board the anti-Islam bus, or get out of the way, as we'll just run you over.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 23, 2004 7:13 PM

A conflict between Islamo-fascists and neo-nazis? One is tempted to say ," Prepare the Arena! Light the blue touchpaper! Stand well back and let them get on with it!".

It does have a lot to commend it. Sometimes a genuine belief in Law and Order can be a hindrance!

Just in case anyone thinks I'm 100% serious, I am being ironic here. More or less.

The BBC is a tool for islamo-fascists, but they are not unresponsive to criticism. I emailed and telephoned over the biased reporting of Jeremy Bowen and Orla Guerin with respect to Israel. I'm not claiming magical powers, or friends in high places, but neither of them is currently reporting in Israel and both left shortly after my complaints. I'm not the only one, we just have to keep trying.

Son of Albion ( Are you from West Brom?) , your friends could try UKIP, the True Labour Party or the Liberal Party ( the bit that never joined the LIB Dems). None of them are pro-Europe and with that comes realism about sovereignty and immigration.

Posted by: Ian at July 23, 2004 7:17 PM

The best response to this demo (their last one attracted 50 muslim supporters and two hundred BNP counter-demostrators - guess which ones the police protected - that's right the poor Muslim minority) would be for thousands of ordinary British people to turn out and show the Islamists that their days are numbered. Imagine a huge crowd of Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus , Pagans, Muslim apostates and aethists surrounding the bigots of Allah and telling them to sling their hook. Well, maybe one day......

Posted by: Son Of Albion at July 23, 2004 7:25 PM

Son of Albion

No, not one day, TODAY.

Contact all Jewish organizations, buddhist organizations, Sikhs, gay organizations, secular society of Britain, etc etc.

Just ring them up, and ask them if they would like to be part of a counter-demonstration.

I don't live in Britain, otherwise I would do it myself.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 23, 2004 7:33 PM

Voltaire,

"even if it's a home phone number"

This suggestion of your's is idiotic if not just down right dumb.

Why would any "sane" person want the Islamo-fascists to have their home phone number?

By advertising "The Anti-Islamic Party" from ones home, would only invite a deluge of harrassing phone calls or worse, from these ready to die for "Allah" mutants.

If you had studied military strategy ,you would have learned that you don't give the enemy your location.

Voltarie, why don't you test out this theory of your's and get back to me soon.

I hope you can shoot straight.
By the way, first you have to put the bullets in the gun.

Those drugs you are smoking, have seriously affected your judgement if not caused brain damage.

Posted by: Son of Infidel at July 23, 2004 7:34 PM

Son of Infidel
We are on the same side .So is Sam Roony and Voltaire.These two gentleman made perfectly valid
comments.Please do them the courtesy of listening
without knocking them in this violent way...
A political Party or organisation has its merit.
Point taken,I hope.

Posted by: Morgane at July 23, 2004 7:37 PM

Alright Son of Infidel: point taken.

I guess that it was a dumb idea to have one's home phone number listed as an anti-Islamic Party number.

Well how about if I declare the formation of the World Wide Anti-Islamic Party on the internet NOW!

The Anti-Islamic Party now officially exists. At the moment Voltaire is a member. If anyone else wants to join, please say so, membership is free.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 23, 2004 7:49 PM

Morgane,

With all due respect,Voltaire's "brillant" idea of advertising ones home phone number is idiotic at best.

I believe you are an intelligent thinking person ,carefully consider what he is recommending.

My statements are strong and logical, not violent.
The only violence I am for, is against the enemy.

Posted by: Son of Infidel at July 23, 2004 7:55 PM

Voltaire,

I was ruff on you, but before you do anything in life, give it careful consideration and plan it well.

These Islamo-bastards must be handeled in a certian way.Here in New York, I know first hand about their evil,and I mean New York City.

We have a score to settle with them and their "recompense' is coming.

Posted by: Son of Infidel at July 23, 2004 8:05 PM

I'm sorry for advocating something which is not only stupid, but would cause harassment if not death.

I retract it, with my deepest and sincerest apologies.

I do tend to speak first and think later.

Sorry

Posted by: Voltaire at July 23, 2004 8:07 PM

Son of Infidel
Was referring to Voltaire's idea not his phone number. Glad to see from comments that we are ALL
the same side.Let us save rancour for the Enemy...

Posted by: Morgane at July 23, 2004 8:11 PM

Son of Albion seems to have a brief for the BNP despite his protests to the contrary. Methinks he doth protest too much.

The BNP are a bunch of thugs who should never be dignified as a political party. They are our KKK.

I doubt they ever mustered 200 thugs. I've seen one of their pathetic marches. (Six - but not to hear them tell it!). They are a waste of police time, which is an offence.

The BNP will never be the answer to Islam. Read Raphael Israeli's proposal for AWADS. A sensible and intelligent porgramme. We need to mount an intellectual defence against the idea of Islam and an aggressive propaganda offensive - i.e. convert them - not kill every muslim in sight!

Posted by: Ian at July 23, 2004 8:15 PM

That's why I came up with the idea of an Anti-Islamic party, so that people would have some-one other than the BNP to vote for.

We do need an intellectual defense against Islam, but how can we convert them, when so many of us are converting to Islam.

Consider: what would be the odds of some-one converting to a faith where
a) if you changed your mind later and left, you got killed
b)If you were a woman you could wind up with a husband who has 3 other wives.
c) the religion was started by a child molester.

Yet many westerners do convert to Islam. If they are that stupid, then how stupid do you think that muslims who actually believe in it are going to be?
How do you think that we could ever convert them?

Posted by: Voltaire at July 23, 2004 8:22 PM

Voltaire,

Your intentions are good, that I understand,as well as your idea of people banding together.Although, I am not so confident this will happen. I believe many more people will have to suffer and die before the world really wakes up,look at your history.

Futhermore with the pc left wing liberal idiots underminding us ,our task will be that much more difficult.

This enemy is pure evil, with it's doctrine of intolorance,hate and barbarity.

If we are going to win this fight, we had better develope the stomach,strengh and resolve to ridd the world of this scourge.

I have placed this quote here before and I will do it again.

"LEAD ME, FOLLOW ME, OR GET OUT OF MY WAY"
George S. Patton, General (1885-1945)

Where is "old blood and guts", when we need him now.

Posted by: Son of Infidel at July 23, 2004 8:59 PM

question to all:

is the ideology of islam destroyable?

if so?

how so?

thank you.

Posted by: forrestshalom at July 23, 2004 9:02 PM

Forrestshalom,

You have posed an important and interesting question.

I shall contempalate this and get back to you.

Posted by: Son of Infidel at July 23, 2004 9:20 PM

Heh. All right, now people are talking about how to stop the religion of sata...err...peace.

There are several steps in fighting a campaign like this. The first is to have a large enough pool of people to work with.

So how do you get a pool like that? Massive propaganda efforts. Our "leaders" are paving the way to Islam, however. Need to work around that. I suggest teach-ins about the evils of Islam, seminar calls to radio shows, flyer after flyer posted all over the western world, whole list of other ideas.

Second, once the public is primed, then there needs to be widescale coordination from groups who're convinced. My ancestors had the "Committees of Correspondence" around the time of the American Revolution. A modern version should be easy to achieve.

Third, once there is a large, coordinated group that is active, they can begin to achieve things on a large scale. Mosques can be denied zoning or utility hookups, voting blocs can ensure that wrong-thinking politicians never spend another vote censuring Israel and spending on the Saudis and so on. Moreover, a large, vocal group will sway everyone else in the country. Regardless of what one thinks of homosexuality, the tiny homosexual minority of very well organized and very politically powerful.

And, if anyone tells me this can't be done, you should save your typing right now and STFU. Go tally up your Dhimmi tax if you think that way.

Posted by: Anduril at July 23, 2004 10:16 PM

Hi Son of Infidel

Thanks very much for your post. I do say silly things. But if I've achieved anything, I've got people talking.

Forestshalom came up with probably the most important question ever said on this comments page: Is Islam destroyable?

Now Anduril has come up with real practical steps in that direction.

This is really great stuff. We are actually talking about doing something, rather than just talking about how terrible things are, which is what we usually do.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 23, 2004 10:40 PM

This rally according to the article is aimed at converting non muslims to islam. HMMMMMM...what a way to promote your religion, start off by having an ILLEGAL gathering, topped off by what I am sure will be violence, screaming and fist shaking by the "peaceful muslims" if and when the police attempt to break up their little "come and join the cult" party...and I the only one that finds this dumb?

Posted by: USAgirl at July 23, 2004 10:58 PM

Hi Anduril

I think that you make a good point when you talk about the homosexual lobby group. We can learn lessons from them.

Homosexuals are a small percentage of the population, but they have a tremendous organisation ability and have political muscle way beyond their actual numbers.

And guess what? Gays are the very people who would suffer from Islamic domination. Homosexuality is forbidden in the Koran, and every year gays get beheaded. Al-Majouhiroun (sp) want to execute gays and do many Islamic sheiks.

Why not contact gay organizations? Why not join forces with them? Let's alert all those people who would specifically suffer, if muslims became the majority, and get them on side?

Posted by: Voltaire at July 23, 2004 10:58 PM

Actually USAgirl, I think that it would actually appeal to those people who are disaffected from society.

Those people who are marginalised and who see a bunch of "rebels without a cause" and say "wow, they're challenging society, I can too."

They get a lot of their converts from the down and outs of society. The people in prison who hate society, and want some way of expressing it.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 23, 2004 11:03 PM

Anduril

By the way, we've got to come up with a more effective way of communicating than on this comments page.

If we're going to take practical steps towards combating Islam, then I think that it would be a good idea to perhaps have a separate space where we could just talk about what we are going to do, instead of being interspersed between other comments.

We need to have a separate space where we can go to, when we have ideas of fighting this monster called Islam.

I wonder if Robert could give us a separate place to go to, so we could talk about steps to take.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 23, 2004 11:08 PM

Hmm. My reply to you was lost, Voltaire. Essentially, my compliments to you in return for opening the door to action instead of words.

Reading back over the posts, you mentioned an anti-Islamic party. We will be better served by coming up with a name and theme which is pro-western. While we rightfully tear down and expose Islam, there needs to be a promotion of the greater values of western civilization. If people have no reference point, their support will be apathetic at best. The moral ambiguity of western leaders has lead to our current problems, as well as people converting to Islam and taking up arms against their own people.

Posted by: Anduril at July 23, 2004 11:09 PM

Yeah. We need to find access to a forum someplace until we can establish an organizational web site.

Posted by: Anduril at July 23, 2004 11:11 PM

Voltaire,

Please let me know if you have any success in getting "any" homosexual organizations to cooperate.

As I stated before, most of them are pc left wing liberals, do some research.

Posted by: Son of Infidel at July 24, 2004 12:01 AM

The only way to confront islamofascists in the moronic PC world of the UK is to confront them with a group deemd to be even more victimised than they.
For example gay associations or women rights groups.
If gays demonstrate with " Gays have the right to exist" or "why does Islam want to kill us" signs alngside women rights groups, the Media will have a hard time IDENTIFYING THE VICTIMS.
So i would suggest all the BNP nuts go dressed in drag or in outrageous gay gear and leave their swastikas at home!
How about -A group of Sudanese animists, protesting about the Islamic genocide and enslavement of their chidren.

Unfortunately leaving the fight against Islamofascism to the BNP is playing straight into the hands od islamification.

Posted by: chevalier de st george at July 24, 2004 12:55 AM

Anduril

There's Yahoo message boards. That's one forum where we could go to.

There used to be something called Delphi forums, where people could just put up a site where they could talk about issues.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 24, 2004 3:22 AM

Just do a google search of Delphi forums.com or Yahoo message boards.

Either one is a good site where we can talk until we get a site of our own.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 24, 2004 3:28 AM

Ideas to get the public thinking 'outside the RoP mantra':

* Banners on highway overpasses. Ex: Islam=Terror
* Chalked street messages. Ex: 'Bush lied! Islam is NOT the RoP' (gets the attention of liberals, anyway).
* Koran fact cards/notes - leave inside Islamic books for sale or in the library. Ex: Mohammed had sex with a 9 year old child. Not all Muslims are terrorists, but most terrorists are Muslims. Islam is a much younger religion than Judaism of Christianity and on and on and on . . .

I think it is important to use only the facts without including any of your own religious biases. The facts about Islam are damning enough by themselves. Think about what you used to think Islam was, and then take that point for point. Just facts, not hate speech.

I think it is also important NEVER to destroy public property. Banners can be removed, chalk washes away. Hopefully the message will stick long enough to shake the 'religion of peace'
mantra and get some people researching the truth.
Just some ideas.

Posted by: Tink at July 24, 2004 3:42 AM

I mentioned this before, but I'll repeat it here.

There is a great book called "Mohammed's believe it or else?"

It is based on the exact verses from the Koran and the hadiths.

It's done in comic book form, and it's absolutely hilarious. You can read about 20 storey tall Adam, or the sun setting into the muddy pond, or how the Jews got turned into monkeys.

You can do a google search of it, and look at it on the net.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 24, 2004 3:52 AM

Good ideas, Tink. The general public needs to be exposed to the counter message as much as possible, over and over. And Islam can easily be shown to be the religion of hate and war, not peace.

Chevalier de St. George, I have often mulled over the same notion you're proposing -- figuring out who is where on the victim scale. But I also think that the world socialist/leftist movement thinks Islam is a usuable tool against traditional western civilization and that trying to use groups with greater victimhood might be a waste of time. I don't discount the idea, but convincing the rank and file person that they are going to lose their country (and possibly life) is a sobering thing to most. Also, I am not sure that victimhood is the proper face to put on the campaign...too many people running around claiming that status already. OOH, that is true "outside the box" thinking and that is what we need right now.

Voltaire, I'm short on time this morning, but I looked and came up with www.delphiforums.net . Also, on the Yahoo Message boards, Government and Politics -> Military -> NATO is a dead board and this isn't too drastically off topic.

Posted by: Anduril at July 24, 2004 6:44 AM

Oh, while I'm thinking about it, there needs to be a co-message of "Worried about Islam? You have friends." A favorite tactic of the PC crowd is to make anyone with a countering opinion feel as if they're an extremist to think that way, as opposed to being a person with a view that is held by many. Actually, that message might make a nifty recruiting flyer.

Posted by: Anduril at July 24, 2004 7:00 AM

Anduril

"Worried about Islam? You have friends." is a FANTASTIC slogan.

As you said, people who dislike Islam are made to feel that they are extremists or racists. That slogan will make people feel that they are not alone, and that it is not wrong to feel worried about Islam.

It's a nice gentle way of saying what we are trying to say.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 24, 2004 7:21 AM

the victims of jihad are many,
Armenians, Egyptian Copts,Animists and Christian Sudanese,Hindus from India and Kashmir, Buddhists from Thailand, Lebanese, French Jews, and on and on,
many have settled in the US. They must speak out,
like Francis Bok, the Sudanese lost boy, or one day there will be no free country to flee to . . .

We are 80% of the world, the mohammedans are
20%. If we all unite for a common cause, we can remain the Free. If we lose our will, if we can't put our differences aside to fight together, we are doomed. If we strengthen our will, unite and face our fears, the course of history will be changed and we will build on the ashes of armeggedon.

Posted by: the poetess at July 24, 2004 9:24 AM

Voltaire,

"It's a nice gentle way of saying what we are trying to say"

Gentleness, has never and will never, overcome evil and barbarity.

I am trying to educate you young man.

You have much to learn.

Posted by: Son of Infidel at July 24, 2004 10:57 AM

Here's an accurate slogan.

Islam advocates the killing of Jews and Gays.
Will you be next? Never forget, the Nazi's first targeted the Jews then the Gays.

Islam = Genocide

Posted by: Roxane at July 24, 2004 1:26 PM

"Anti-Islma" is not a good name for a anti-islamic party. It is too negative sounding. Something like the Tours Party (named after Martel's victory that prevented the Moslems from expanding out of
Spain) is much more neutral.

Don't cast yourselves as necessarily being against Islam, rather battle for "rights" that Moslems -- and particularily so-called "moderate" Moslems -- have to embrace to be constructive members of society. Keep the list of rights simple:

1. All members of society have the right to quit on religion to join another, or no religion, without fear of reprisal.

2. Woman have a right to full participation in society.

3. Polygamy is illegal.

4. Pro pedophile teachings are illegal.

If you're curious, Google on Mormon and 'Supreme Court' to see how the US handled a problematic sect in the 19th Century.

In short, don't be against Moslems, rather be "for" a set of reasonable principles. Let the moslems be the ones who cast themselves as "anti".

Posted by: ambisinistral at July 24, 2004 4:37 PM

Today, July 25th is the Saint day of St James the Moor Slayer.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 24, 2004 6:57 PM

Son of Infidel

We live in a world which thinks that Islam is just another religion. They think that anyone who is anti-Islam is a racist.

We can't go in with guns blazing.
We have got to convince people that it's ok to be worried about Islam. That they are not alone in doing so.

We have got to do this right from the beginning. We can't screw it up.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 24, 2004 8:57 PM

All right, order of business, day 2...

Poetess, I nominate you to create/edit content of public material. That will be finalized at a later date when we are organized enough to merit established positions. Other positions will be filled as the need becomes obvious.

Second order of business, we need to find a way to privately communicate amongst ourselves. Ideas are welcome. In the meantime, I suggest we congregate in the Yahoo Message Board Government -> Military -> NATO. This is essentially unused and we do not need to seek permission to create a board. Optionally, if that avenue is closed, we still have Mr. Spencer's sites, and should maintain contact here as well as there.

Third, we need to decide on a platform and focus. I have my own ideas and hints of them have come through in some of my previous postings. I believe that we can all readily agree that Islam must be barred from western nations, pending a reformation that I personally do not believe the religion is capable of achieving. Outside of that, we need to spend a day or two reflecting on what our own beliefs are and how they may be synthesized into that guiding principles. We must be very clear as to what we stand for and how we intend to achieve it. Equally, we must not allow doctrinal disputes to fragment our efforts.

Our grandchildren will thank us for fighting this battle now and sparing them the agony.

Posted by: Anduril at July 24, 2004 9:49 PM

I would also like to make a couple of comments --

Interesting timing on the date, Voltaire. But, dhimmitude marches on: http://www.madville.com/link.php?id=68965&t=6

Ambisinistral, I would recommend that you think in terms of "we" instead of "you and me." We're all in this together and your participation is needed.

Roxane, good idea. I'd add "Islam -- Slavery for Jews and Christian, death to all others."

Voltaire, I agree -- these are the real first steps toward stopping, then reversing the tide of Islam in the West. There has to be a beginning and it cannot fail through poor planning and missteps.

Finally, Son of Infidel...the climactic battles between the West and Islam obviously have yet to take place. At the moment, the first order of business is to begin organizing the many, many people who dare not give name to the threat but still hold it in the back of their minds. If polled, not many people would say they expect a peaceful resolution to this clash of civilizations. However, there is also an expected level of restraint in both action and rhetoric until the situation changes. If you will recall, the American Revolution did not start with all the people in the nation spontaneously taking up arms against the British, but rather the building of a consensus through exchanges of opinion and information over several years prior to the event. This is not unlike chess -- the board has to established before the next actions can be taken. Thank you for your consideration.

Posted by: Anduril at July 24, 2004 10:08 PM

Voltaire,

I appreciate your desire to inform the world about the evils of Islam and rally them to your cause.

If you wish to succeed in this endevor you will have to make very clear strong factual statements if you hope to bring them over to your side.

This approach of yours to be nice and gentle is all wrong and sounds as if you were a pyschotherapist talking to your paitents.

Was Winston Churchill nice and gentle when he spoke of the evils of Fascisim and the Nazis, I think not.Nor were any of the other great leaders of our time.

Study history and learn from it.

Good Luck,

Son of Infidel

Posted by: Son of Infidel at July 24, 2004 10:12 PM

Anduril

This is just so exciting. We're making history here.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 24, 2004 11:01 PM

Son of Infidel

We need everyone on board.

Sure, we'll disagree with lots of things. But through that, we'll grow.

Please join us.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 24, 2004 11:05 PM

I am not sure excitement would be my word of choice. When a man lights a candle against the darkness, it is only a matter of time before the darkness takes note. But it is also the choice of everyone here to light their own candle or let that darkness prevail until it cannot be stopped. We cannot let that choice pass from ourselves to the next person, and from them to the next. Soon, it would end with all cowed, all Dhimmi, simply waiting for the day when their freedoms, or even lives, are formally crushed under the tyranny of the Sharia. We should not deceive ourselves as to the difficulty of what we intend to do, but neither should we deceive ourselves as to the necessity.

Posted by: Anduril at July 24, 2004 11:15 PM

Anduril,

Thank you for the lesson in American history, I studied it many years ago here in the states.

Your thinking is a bit off,"the climatic battles between the West and Islam obviously have yet to take place".

Islam has been at war with West since this vile and evil scourge came into the world.If you had studied your history you would know this.

What is needed now is strong decisive military action by the nations that have the means to implement this.

The world does not have the luxury of time to wait.As of right now Iran is aggressivly working to develope nuclear weapons for the purpose of using them,they have made this clear.

We are at war with a most dangerous and evil enemy.The longer we wait the stronger the enemy will become.

All this exchanges of opinions and information idea of yours is absurd to say the least.

During World War II when the Fascists and Nazis where bring death and destruction to the world if your plan was used we all be singing "Deutschland" "Deutschland" "Uber Alles"

When one is attacked you must respond with overwhelming force and we have been "attacked"

The malignant cancer of Islam is infecting the body of the world.If it is not eradicated, the patient will die.

If the world follows your plan we will either be dead or bowing to Mecca.

Posted by: Son of Infidel at July 24, 2004 11:19 PM

Great post Anduril.

You definately are our Winston Churchill.

Should we tell Will Cummins from The Telegraph about our group?

I don't mean in terms of publicising it, but just to let him know that we do exist, and maybe he might want to join us.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 24, 2004 11:23 PM

Son of Infidel

What the hell are you doing? Unless you're part of some anti-Islamic movement yourself, then please stop trying to nip our movement in the bud.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 24, 2004 11:26 PM

Hi everyone

I've just heard from Robert Spencer and he told us to call it The Human Rights Party.

So now we have a name for our party.

Anduril: If you or anyone else wants to contact me at Yahoo message boards, my username there is MataBond2000. Just leave me a message there whenever you like.

All the best to you and everyone else (except Reza).

Posted by: Voltaire at July 25, 2004 12:03 AM

Voltaire,

I am not trying to,as you say "nip our movement in the bud"

I have given you some good advice if you do not wish to avail yourself of it that is your mistake.

Futhermore if Anduril is your "Winston Churchill, you are in big trouble.

Ok enough scarcasim.

Why don't you and your friend study the great leaders of history and learn from them.
Winston Churchill is a good place to start,also the famous American General George S. Patton.

I believe you chaps are British,(please correct me if I am wrong)Margaret Thatcher had more bollocks than most the so called British politicians of today.

When you are dealing with an enemy as we are you must come from a position of absolute strength

Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery is also a good example.

Finally, the Israelis are all to familar with the Islamo-bastards and they deal with them accordingly.

Cheers,

Son Of Infidel

Posted by: Son of Infidel at July 25, 2004 12:23 AM

Dear Son of Infidel

Sorry about my last post to you. I'm on edge at the moment, and I sometimes tend to post first and think later.

All the best to you.

Voltaire

Posted by: Voltaire at July 25, 2004 12:26 AM

Actually matabond200

Posted by: Voltaire at July 25, 2004 5:01 AM

Sorry I have to try again.

It's matabond2000

Posted by: Voltaire at July 25, 2004 5:02 AM

Son of Infidel, I am American, not English. (why does everyone think I'm English, anyway?)

Secondly, if I might explain my thinking, every war fought against Islam has been a defensive war, aimed at stopping the tide. Even the Crusades were fought to keep the Holy Land free of Moslem control. The threat to the Western nations will continue as long as Islam exists in its current form and manner, as you can see from the repeated invasions of Europe.

Third, as much as the Iranian bomb is a threat, it is no more so that the Pakistani bomb. At the moment, the nuclear arsenals of the West still outnumber those of the East and we can at least threaten to blast Mecca off the face of the earth if anything happens. That's not to say it should be taken lightly at all, but put in the proper perspective. It is time to use the scientific prowess of the West and develop weapons which are capable of surpassing nuclear ones (nanoweapons, anyone?).

The real danger instead is ideologically and demographic. Moslem nations have higher birth rates, European nations have very low birth rates. And, the crippling strains of political correctness and socialist-movement thinking are nowhere to be found in Islamic nations, meaning there is no moral ambiguity and self-doubt about the righteousness of their cause. Unfortunately, this type of thinking is very common in the West -- notice all the attempts to "understand" Islam? How laws are passed and used to protect Islam? How Christian churches invite Moslem speakers to explain Islam? And so on. Sixty years ago, anyone acting that way towards the Nazi party would've most likely been jailed, not praised for "tolerance." Whatever you think of him otherwise, Michael Savage is quite correct in saying that "Ultra tolerance is killing is." I don't dismiss the military threat, but the military threat can be seen and guraded against. But when people let the enemy through your own gates and welcome into him into your homes, what do you do?

So, there must be a profound change of thought in the Western nations and it must be given a coordinated voice with which to speak. People must be awakened en masse to the danger and that it is morally correct and justified to take whatever steps necessary to end the danger. 9/11 should've been Pearl Harbor to the civilized world, but instead it became a repeat of the 1979 hostage crisis in Iran. Good, yes, to take military action, but the enemy should've been accurately named and the people brought together in total effort. Until this is done, Islam will continue to grow like a cancer in the West and that decisive moment will never occur.

We agree that absolute strength is necessary, but I do not see examples of this yet anywhere in the West. I consider Afghanistan and Iraq to be holding actions, attacking the edge of the ideology, not the heart of the beast itself. And we both agree that speed is essential. Every day another mosque goes up in a Western nation and every day, more people are convinced to hate their own ancestors and embrace a vile and alien religion.

Regards.

Posted by: Anduril at July 25, 2004 8:07 AM

What I don't understand is why the US and Britain allow Iraq and Afghanistan to be Islamic nations. Since the west has the military might, why don't we force them to become secular.

Why not even ban Islam while we're at it?

Posted by: Voltaire at July 25, 2004 8:30 AM

That would be a real mess, to put it mildly.

Posted by: Anduril at July 25, 2004 8:43 AM

STICKERS

put stickers everywhere saying truth about the islam

put stuff out of there holy book on them saying that mohammed raped a child, saying rape is good, saying that islam is a fascist religion etc.

Posted by: Morghodius at July 25, 2004 4:02 PM

Excellent suggestion. I had envisioned a series of flyers, available in .pdf format from various websites. This is also very doable.

Posted by: Anduril at July 25, 2004 7:20 PM

the heart of the matter is that 'allah' must be
killed. i have read (unsubtantiated) that according to the koran: he 'lives' in a little black rock in mecca.

the only logical choice is to kill the beast before it devours us.

the conquistadors of mexico and peru were few in number, but the indians capitulated easily once they lost faith in their 'gods'.

a big, possibly unsurmountable problem:

i believe that the usa is protecting saudia arabia,
and anything of this nature would be defended with
american technology and probably american armed forces.

we have to look beyond the surface of things:

voltaire wrote earlier:

-What I don't understand is why the US and Britain allow Iraq and Afghanistan to be Islamic nations.-

hello?

doesn't this speak volumes?

forrest

Posted by: forrestshalom at July 25, 2004 7:55 PM

Thanks Forrest for your support

Let's start putting all the dots together.

The US and Britain invaded Afghanistan and yet allowed Afghanistan to become an Islamic state. Same with Iraq.

America is spending millions training Saudi soldiers, and giving them advanced weapons technology.

WHY?

Our enemies seem to be the very ones who are supposed to be protecting us.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 25, 2004 10:29 PM

Actually what we need is for one of us to "convert" to Islam. Go to Mecca, strap explosives to the rock and then blow it up sky high.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 25, 2004 10:32 PM

EVERYONE, I've created a forum at Delphiforums.net

It's called The Human Rights Party (that is the forum name.)

The webtag is western1

I've described it as a forum for people who have an interest in human rights.

The keywords are western civilization.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 25, 2004 11:00 PM

The URL is http://forums.delphiforums.com/western1

Posted by: Voltaire at July 25, 2004 11:03 PM

i tried to register for the new human rites site
but i got a message stating 'access available to those 13 and over'.

i guess that leaves me out (sigh)

any way , i was going to post a link to
yochanan ramati's excellent article in which he warns in a nutshell that if the 'west' doesn't hit the muslims hard and soon so as to scare
'blank' out of them then it wil be too late when
they launch nuclear attacks against us.

http://westerndefense.org/special/TwinTowers2001.htm

he also makes the excellent point that
western 'business tycoons' have sold out their
countries for muslim oil wealth.

Posted by: forrestshalom at July 25, 2004 11:38 PM

Forrest, you can sign in as a guest. It's probably just a glitch.

Please try again, and tell me if you are successful.

Posted by: Voltaire at July 26, 2004 12:09 AM

Anduril,

The Crusades were expeditions undertaken in fulfilment of a solem vow to deliver the Holy Places from Mohammedan tyranny.

The first Crusade began in 1096 and they lasted approximately 250 years.During this time there were many atocties, torturing,pillaging and massacring of civilians all in the name of Christ. Many of these victims were Byzantine Christians as well as Jews that were slaugthered.

This rage continued across Europe to Constantinople where in 1204 the city was pillaged and looted of most of its great treasures.

Unfortunately your reference to the Crusades was a poor choice as this was a dark period for the world and a stain on Christianity.

Wahabbism which comes from the sunni Muslim country of Saudi Araiba and spread to Egypt in the 1960's, is the brand of Islam that is fueling the current global "Jihad" aganist Western culture and society.

The Saudis,with their billions in oil money have been exporting, promoting and financing this for years.

Seventy to eighty percent of the mosques in the US,which are based on wahabbism, were established with Saudi money and this continues today along witht their support for these "so called" moderate Islamic organizations here in the states.

The United States dependency on Middle Eastern oil as well as the rest of the Western world is part of the problem.

Changing this will be extremely difficult, especially here in the States where the oil companies have great lobbying power and influence in the area of politics.

In reguard to your Comment: "as much as the Iranian bomb is a threat, it is no more so that the Pakistani bomb".

This statement is in error, Iran which is a shite based Islamic theocracy run by fanatical mullahs and clerics,is aggressively pursuing the acquisition of nuclear weapons for the purpose of using them, with Israel being first on their list. The Iranians have clearly stated this,as such they are a much more serious threat to the region than Pakistan.

Futhermore Iran is the birthplace of Hizbollah,an International Islamic-terroist organization with many resources, as it is funded and supported by the Iranian government.

Iran has a very close relationship with Syria,another Islamo-fascist country that exports terrorism .Both these countries are doing everything in their power to destablize Iraq.Many foreign fighters, "Jihadis" from Iran And Syria have entered into Iraq to kill American soldiers.

Although the sunnis and shites do not get along they are more than willing to put this aside to bring death and destruction to the West.

In reguard to Pakistan,Musharaff's goverment is not stable, there already have been several attempts on his life.I do not believe he will have a long life span and with his death the radicals may very well cease power.

In addition, Pakistani Muslims make up 97% of the country and it was their government that helped create the Taliban.

Finally,not so long ago ,Pakistan had a plan on the table to nuke India, fortunatelly this was aborted.These two countries have been mortal enemies for decades,with most of the aggression coming from Pakistanis.Pakistan is a time bomb and must be monitored closely.

As far as the developement of nano-weapons, the Chinese are aggressively pursuring this. Concerning the US ,I do not know what progress may have been achived in this area. It could be years before this technology is perfected and we do not have the luxury of time.

We are in agreement that there must be a profound change of thought in the Western nations.However,I believe that this is unlikely to happen.

As Europe has become infected by the "disease" of liberalism, the left wing socialists with their politically correct agenda are gaining ground.

France is already lost to the Islamo-fascists. The country has become a "third world" Muslim toilet and eventually their culture will be forgotten.

England, also is plagued with this cancer of Islamo-fascism, thanks to the spineless and gutless British politicians that refuse to confront and deal with this problem.

The following is an excerpt from a recent article written by Bat Ye'or, a most prolific writer on this subject.

"This Eurabian ethos operates at all levels of European society. Its countless functionaries, like the Christian janissary slave-soldiers of past Islamic regimes, advance a jihadist world strategy. Eurabia cannot change direction; it can only use deception to mask its emergence, its bias and its inevitable trajectory. Eurabia’s destiny was sealed when it decided, willingly, to become a covert partner with the Arab global jihad against America and Israel. Americans must discuss the tragic development of Eurabia, and its profound implications for the United States, particularly in terms of its resultant foreign policy realities. Americans should consider the despair and confusion of many Europeans, prisoners of a Eurabian totalitarianism that foments a culture of deadly lies about Western civilization. Americans should know that this self-destructive calamity did not just happen, rather it was the result of deliberate policies, executed and monitored by ostensibly responsible people. Finally, Americans should understand that Eurabia’s contemporary anti-Zionism and anti-Americanism are the spiritual heirs of 1930s Nazism and anti-Semitism, triumphally resurgent".

The United States and Europe as a result of their politically correct liberal immigration policies has been invaded by the Muslims, and with this has come the evil and poisionous ideology of Islam, which is rapidlly spreading throughout the world.

The West has sunken down into the an abyss of imorality and decadence.We have lost our connection with god and "true" Christianty is being practiced less and less.

People today spend more time talking on their cell phones, than communicating with our Creator.

The populace is consumed and obsessed with sex and violence just look around, it is everywhere.

The deterioration and degeneration of Western culture and society has only helped to facilitate the agenda of the Islamo-fascists.

If the mentaliy of left wing liberalism and multi-culturalism contunies to persist, the cancer of Islam shall only grow stronger.

The threat is real and serious, their agenda is clear,world subjugation and the death and destruction of our way of life.

Informing people of this is important, but this alone will not solve the problem.Well planned, clear and decisive military action aganist the countries that support and finance the Islamo-fascists must be implimented sooner than later. The longer we wait, the higher the price we will pay in the future.

PS: From time to time I listen to Michael Savage.He is the one person on the airwaves that has the courage to speak the truth.

Posted by: Son of Infidel at July 27, 2004 11:18 PM

Andruil,

"as much as the Iranian bomb is a threat,It is no more so that the Pakistani bomb"

"At the moment, the nuclear arsenals of the West still out number those of the East and we can at least threaten to blast Mecca off the face of the earth if anything happens"

The above two quotes of yours from your last post to me are quite erroneous, the following confirms this.

July 27, 2004
Israel says Hizbullah rockets threaten Tel Aviv as Iran vows to ''wipe Israel off'' map

"Back in the days of the Cold War, the doctrine of "Mutually Assured Destruction" was purported to have kept both sides from launching a nuclear attack on the other. But the problem with the "Islamic Bomb" is that those who will wish to launch it will not be given pause by the prospect of their own destruction: they will be martyrs for Allah, enjoying the sensual bounties of Paradise". From Al-Bawaba, with thanks to Jeffrey Imm:

Posted by: Son of Infidel at July 28, 2004 12:37 AM