Everyone:

"Khaled" is "Reza".

Posted by: CGW at September 12, 2004 9:13 AM

Post modernist Europe has no stomach left for a fight. Maybe it was because the horros of WWII that visited the continent left permanent scars on euro psyche against organised violence? But that WWII generation has passed on, why are the (native born) young in Europe so craven?

Alas, I can see no solution in sight. I mean such is the dhimmitude in europe that even if large scale chemical/biological attacks happen on the mainland, there will probably be no public backlash against the moslem communities there!

Its probably time to count western europe (sans the UK and maybe, just maybe, Italy) as no longer active members of the free world.

Posted by: voletti at September 12, 2004 10:31 AM

An Islamized Europe will provide ethnic-European jihadists for their war against the U.S. Thus, we must carefully scrutinize ALL IMMIGRANTS coming to the U.S. and ALL that are presently here. The future for the world and the U.S. does not bode well.

Posted by: epg at September 12, 2004 11:18 AM

sadly, the prevalence of leftist thinking has caused many psyches to automatically blame america and western civilization for all problems (as if the world were a computer and western civ. the user). thus, until political shifts take place (like in russia now) these european countries will accept whatever the jihad deals them because ultimately -- in their nihilistic self-hatred -- it is our own fault; thus, giving [false] credence to james carroll's thesis that this is really an imagined war

Posted by: ted at September 12, 2004 11:53 AM

I wonder as well about post-WWII Europeans...But, 'post-modernism', whatever that means, I think, is not an explanation. The causes of the softness and pliability in the minds and hearts of Europeans are common human shortcomings, I think.

Does anyone remember taradasha's garden? The garden, where one escapes, like a topless beach on the Riviera, or a disco in Berlin, or a summer cottage in Scandinavia, or a cafe in Paris, or a pub in Germany or Britian, the place where one retires, enjoys, lets the hair down, where one thinks about pleasant things, relaxes, laughs, maybe debates, but a detached debate, unless there is some anarchist in the bar...

We all needs such things, but in Europe, I think, there is a tendency to wrap oneself up in the idyllic comfort that can be 'Europe'. There is a sense of detachment, from the world and others for that matter, as young people seek out the 'group' that will have special meaning for them (even the selection of a pub or nightclub and evoke identity issues). And I think there is a sense of disconnection to history, what is it to be 'Western', and what really happened during in the 1930s and 40s. It seems so far removed from current reality; it could never happen again. But it can, and it is...

Seduction, pleasure, escape, frivoligy. We all need these things, and should enjoy them on occasion, but such experiences have done something to European young people.

I don't know. But we do know this: topless beaches, sexual expression of all kinds, free thinking and speaking, history, art, literature, or just fun talk over a beer, are all headed for a violent collision with Islam: it is only a matter of time.

Please my friends, slap yourselves in the face and look into the abyss that grows wider and more dangerous in your midst...before it swallows you up.

Posted by: JTF at September 12, 2004 1:54 PM

One would be interested to learn whether Professor Lewis, who has a deep professional and personal interest in Turkey, believes it would be a good idea -- for Europe, not for Turkey -- if the latter were to be admitted into the E.U. One argument that has been offered is that, after all, Turkey is scrupulously fulfilling the various solemn undertakings that an applicant must fulfill -- ending capital punishment, constraining the Turkish army, that sort of thing. Indeed, the leader of the Islamic party, Erdogan, who has been taking apart the Kemalist edifice, stone by careful stone, has cleverly used the requirements for E.U. admission as a justification for many of these measures including, most importantly, the limits put on the power of the army, the sole guarantor of Kemalism (as it was in 1959).

Turkey is no longer the same thing as "Kemalist" Turkey, and admission of Turkey would mean not only that 70 million Turks could move freely about all the member states of the E.U., but that other Muslim populations could more easily do so by going through Turkey and posing as Turkish citizens. It is already hellishly difficult to police European borders; it would not be easy for French or Italians or others to instantly distinguish one kind of MIddle Eastern Muslim from another. And even those Turks, moving freely about, would no doubt wish to establish mosques and other institutions, in Brittany or Umbria, or wherever they happen to go. And no one could prevent it.

As to the argument that these Turks would bring the "secularism" of Turkey with them, even if one overlooks the waning of secularism, taken for granted by the 25% of the Turkish population that believes in it most fervently, and has benefited from it most, the opposite is likely to be true. In Germany, the Turkish workers have come to be more, rather than less, intense in their Muslim beliefs, possibly as a mechanism for self-defense in a non-Muslim environment, possibly out of a homesickness that can express itself only in terms of religion. But that these workers are more extreme in their faith cannot be denied.

That being the case, one would think that Professor Lewis would, at least in the coulisses if not the corridors of power, be urging those who listen to him in Washington to reverse course, and not to push for Turkey's admission to Europe -- which can only lead to a speeded-up islamization of Europe.

Another question would like to pose would be that of the formulaic praise offered to high Islamic civilization by Professor Lewis, who continues to compare Europe in the Dark Ages with the Islamic civilization that was the "richest, most advanced, most..." in the world. To this one wishes to suggest that this attempt to placate Muslims in the audience by feeding their pride in the past has passed its sell-by date. The dreamy belief in the greatness of Islamic civilization does not stand up under scrutiny. A few centuries, serving as a conduit (of Chinese papermaking, of Hindu numbers and algebra, of Greek philosophy rendered first into Syriac, then into Arabic, often by Christian or Jewish translators), with some very minor achievements, and a handful of figures, their names repeated over and over and over (Al-Rhazi, Averroes, Avicenna, Al-Farabi, and a dozen others -- compared to the tens of thousands of similar figures in the Western world, not to mention those in the civilizations of China, or those unknown creators of Inca or Mayan civilization), which died out, it seems, with the final asphyxiation of the local non-Muslim populations or, as in the case of Muslim Spain, with political upheavals driving out some of the most significant figures (as Maimonides was driven out by the Almohad-induced persecutions --he escaped from Grenada to Fez, where he lived disguised as a Muslim, but the atmosphere of persecution in Fez led him to Cairo, where he worked as a physician for the Fatimid rulers).

But if Professor Lewis really does have such a view of Islamic achievement long ago, then perhaps none of us should really worry about the islamization of Europe. After all, if that was possible once, surely we should listen to the Da'wa of Tariq Ramadan, who believes that the future of Islam lies in Europe (and possibly America, though after his visa refusal that may have to wait a bit).

Two questions, for study and discussion.

Posted by: Hugh at September 12, 2004 7:16 PM

Here's a sign of the times,a public school in Toronto Canada denied enrollment of a young girl because she only spoke English. The school is in a highly immigrant area and the policy is
to accomadate the major groups in the area,seems the child had to learn Chinese or Punjabi to get in a class.
The irony of this case,the school was name after a man that fought for de-segregation and equality
for all children,he was pro-immigrant and opposed
any discrimination or bigotry on the basis of origin.
Oh well,time to re-name the school to appease immigrants,after all,the Christmas pagent is dead since being replaced with the winter festival
celebration of cultures.
The Hijab issue in France was the correct ruling,this will avoid any future problems with Muslims demanding all girls wear Hijabs to avoid offending Islamic dress codes.
I'm still waiting for a Muslim to cite the Quran
for the verse demanding a Hijab be wore by all female Muslims,it's a cultural costume piece and no more that just that. Lets see the Men waer the Hijab to support the Muslim females.
Fat chance on that one.

NO ISLAM - KNOW PEACE

Posted by: ala-sux at September 12, 2004 7:49 PM

And let us suppose that Islamic achievement of yesteryear...(but what yesteryear?) was as marvelous as Lewis and others seem to think.

Well, on your next trip to Athens take a walk up to the Parthenon. Take a stroll through the agora. I will give the first person who meets Socrates, Plato, or Aristotle 50 bucks.

And speaking of money, if you see a guy in a black tee shirt and a scar on his left cheek, tell him I want my wallet back.

Posted by: JTF at September 12, 2004 11:56 PM

source: frontpagemag.com

"If demographic trends continue, France will be a predominately moslem nation in less than half a century. The birthrate of its native population is 1.4 children per woman, well below replacement level. For French Moslems, it’s double to triple that."

& all the mixed marriages...Caucasian Western women duped into accepting Islam..& the steady stream of Muslim immigration, Muslim immigrants come into Europe, & the extremists wish it the way it was back in the Muslium nations, where Muslims are the majority.

50 years is not much time, Muslims will inevitably change the face of Europe, & the US will really be in trouble, fighting Jihad from every direction & Muslims already have their noose around Russia.

Posted by: SFOD at September 13, 2004 12:24 AM

In exploring the analogy with the 1930s and 40s I sometimes wonder if one can imagine France as the new Germany, and France's nuclear arsenal as the refurbished, invigorated German army.

And ironically most of the Jews left in Europe live in France...I don't know. But surely it does not take much to imagine these weapons in the hands of those who want Islam to cover the globe.

There are reasons for believing that this is inevitable, unless something happens, and happens soon.

Posted by: JTF at September 13, 2004 12:45 AM

Alas, Europe--a brilliant civilization has committed suicide.

Posted by: Kepha1 at September 14, 2004 3:48 AM