In all the years that I have lived in Arab countries I have never seen a five minute prayer. It's usually about 30 minutes and is often up to an hour. Who believes that caving in on this one prayer time wouldn't spur demands for breaks for the four other daily prayer times? Then of course they'll want a three hour break on Fridays so that they can get their weekly dose of Wahabbi indoctrination.

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at September 18, 2004 2:06 PM

This is not the end of the expensive, time-consuming litigation that companies must engage in with Muslim employees. Prayer rugs, or prayer rooms set aside, hypersensitivity to slights (and of course, the endless barratry by CAIR and other Muslim groups determined to make everything a cause celebre, so as to constantly put Infidels on edge, made to worry constantly about the slightest slight, for fear of a lawsuit -- well, all of this has a simple and elegant solution. Factor in the real cost of Muslim employees -- that is, factor in the present-value cost of future litigation, or future security problems, or even just the problem of trying to have reasonable and frictionless relations which are unlikely, given the refusal of Muslims to embrace pluralism, and their inculcated hatred of Infidels (however modified or hidden when necessary), it is asking for trouble, and great expense, and a lowering of general employee morale, to hire Muslim workers. Surely, given the vast unemployment in this country, there are plenty of non-Muslim workers to be found.

Furthermore, if you agree that Islam, as a belief-system, is a threat to your wellbeing, if you believe that the more of its adherents live within the Dar al-Harb, the Lands of the Infidels, the more likely it is that the conversion (or "reversion") of the psychically and economically marginal will proceed apace, if you agree that the $40 billion spent last year by the Federal government alone in increeased security measures, and the tens of billions now being spent by state and local governments, makes our Infidel lives far more expensive than they would otherwise be, if you agree that a large Muslim population makes for a less settled, less serene and more worrisome existence, a belief based on the evidence supplied by the daily news from around the world, then instead of falling all over yourself trying to accomodate workplaces to Muslim demands, surely one should do nothing to make things still more inviting, than they already are, for large numbers of those who subscribe to a belief system that not only takes Muhammad as a model, but inculcates Qur'anic passages that prescribe a rather unpleasant fate for Infidels. Why participate in making your own lives, the lives of your INfidel fellow-citizens, the lives of your Infidel children and grandchildren, more expensive, unpleasant, and dangerous than they would otherwise be?

One is glad that Whirlpool won its suit. One is offended that they have taken upon themselves to be such a generous and accomodating employer of Muslim workers -- there are plenty of arrivals from elsewhere who could do the job, for the same price, and without the vast hidden and as yet not internalized costs of Muslim employees. Just as a barrel of Saudi oil that sells for $30 is, in reality, far more expensive to the American consumer, given where some of that $30 in revenue goes (to support mosques in the U.S., madrasas churning out those fit only for the Jihad in Pakistan and four dozen other MUslim countries, to bribe ex-diplomats, journalists, academics) than is reflected in the price, so the real cost to the United States of private companies hiring Muslim workers, helping to establish a larger Muslim presence in this country, is far greater. Perhaps one should eventually let such companies know that one disapproves of such hiring practices, and will make that disapproval known in the choice of what brand to buy. No doubt this seems implacable, but it follows logically from one's estimate both of the belief-system of Islam, and the threat of those who carry that belief-system within them, and may indeed help to persuade others of its dangerous -- to Infidels -- doctrines.

Posted by: Hugh at September 18, 2004 2:23 PM

This ought to get far more coverage than it likely has. And I am sure the ALCU is already in touch with CAIR to see how they can foul things up for others who do the Right thing.

Posted by: Gary at September 18, 2004 3:23 PM

Folks,

Lemme recount the fascinating tale of an attempted economic-boycott of moslems in India's Gujrat state in 2002.

After moslem mobs burnt alive 52 Hindu pilgrims inside a train in Godhra town, the entire state (which is some 88% Hindu majority) erupted in a violent religious rioting frenzy and lynched some 2000 moslems in the days following.

Then followed dhimmi indignation in the media - both domestic and international - with such vehemence that even today Gujrat is apologetic about those days of madness.

But parts of Gujrat underwent an economic boycott of the local moslem population. Nobody would buy from or sell tom moslems anymore. The situatyion within days got so bad, that thousands migrated away. The federal govt was forced to intervene with harsh pronouncements and slowly, with time the cracks healed.

Its an interesting story and I believe the web should have references.

Posted by: voletti at September 18, 2004 5:30 PM

Was it thousands of muslims who migrated away?

Posted by: Voltaire at September 18, 2004 5:34 PM

Believe a lot of this prayer nonsense is an excuse to stop work and get paid for it - citing
Religious reasons of course. This should be nipped
in the bud, pronto! ALL employees would have to sign contract to abide by Company Rules.

Posted by: Morgane at September 18, 2004 5:49 PM

A core value of the Western civilization is that economic opportunity can in no way be allocated as a function of religious belief or practice. So as long as Islam is considered a religion, there is no legal way to exclude Muslims from participation in the economy. The simple solution is to legally "de-certify" Islam as a religion and have it reclassified in common law as a political, economic, social and cultural ideology deserving of no special treatment under the law from any other non-religious belief system. Such a reclassification would require court test by someone with standing in a case where the outcome would depend on whether Islam is a religion or whether it is something else.

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at September 18, 2004 6:00 PM

Hulegu,

The only way to challenge it would be to challenge if the Quran is a true holy text? or a handbook for murder.

I sited this before, but take for a moment the case of "Maryland vs Paladin Enterprises"

Paladin published the book "Hitman", which was then used as step by step guide to commit murder.
It went before the Supreme Court, the arguement used , was this was not protected speech as it was used as a guideline to commit murder and was used as a step by step guide to do so.
Paladin settled out of court and agreed to stoppublishing the book.

Under the definition of religion, you have the following: system of belief in, worship of a supernatural power or god, pious, conscientious.

Then, pious...devout, righteous and conscientious..scrupulous, obedient to dictates of conscience.

So, if terrorist use the Quran as a guide to commit acts of murder and terrorism, does it not also fall under the same ruling as the Paladin case? And if it falls under the same ruling, does it not lose it's status a religous text, since under the definitions of religion, it goes contary to that, and if it loses the status of religous text, doesn't the whole concept of Islam then fall away?????????????????????????, since of course this is the book that guides them??????????

Posted by: susan_b at September 18, 2004 6:28 PM

Wait,didn't a Muslim owned business fire a Catholic for not adhering to Islamic food requirements in the workplace.
So if your a Muslim you demand the employer to
accomadate you,if your a non-Muslim at a Muslim business your expected to accomadate their practises.
So what happens when they become surgeons or
firefighters,they'll let someone die so they can please Allah with praying on time.
Funny how Muslims didn't get upset when the
9/11 hijackers destroyed the Mosques that were in the WTC towers because of the high Muslim population in the workforce.
So much for sacrede shrines,Mosques are Ok for storing weapons,conducting war from,destroying if it also kills infidels,and murdering the Bad Muslim that offend Allah and don't follow the true was of Islam.

Tell me agian about Islam being a faith of peace and Tolerance.

NO ISLAM - KNOW PEACE

Posted by: ala-sux at September 18, 2004 6:53 PM

Actually, I'm actually a little sympathetic to the Muslim plaintiff. I've worked alongside observant Muslims before and if you want to see them, you can always do something else for five minutes. I've been in places where Chasidim wanted to hold a minyan, too. I myself observe the Lord's Day for rest and worship and say a blessing over lunch. However, it is not easy to be observant when our society is forcing us to live a 24/7 lifestyle. Bill Gates has come close to saying that any Sabbath is a stupid waste of time. Increasingly, we run into employers who won't accept willingness to work longer Saturday or Monday, but demand our Sundays as well.

Frankly, the secularist freedom of religion given to traditional Christians is also a kind of dhimmitude: yes, you have freedom of religion, so go back to your closet and shut up--and, if you live in China, you get ten years in prison for baptizing you kid before he turns 18.

I can't speak for Muslims, but one day in seven is a reminder that we were once slaves in the land of Egypt but were redeemed by God's grace (See Deuteronomy 5). For those of us who keep Sunday, we are reminded weekly of Jesus' resurrection, that death, too, will die.

It is my pious opinion--held with much weeping--that one reason the once-Christian West is now vexed by Islam, a degenerative force unmatched in history until the short episode of scientific socialism blighted the 20th century, is that we are proud and self-sufficient, and scornful of God.

Posted by: Kepha1 at September 18, 2004 8:14 PM

Maybe things will work out like this: the west allows muslims in their lands under the guise of multiculturalism. Muslims inflict their religion of the populace. Then native populations tired of this fight back. And they keep on fighting back until Islam is itself destroyed.

Posted by: Voltaire at September 18, 2004 8:26 PM

This is nonesense. I want to pray three times a day but I won't ask for special preferences from my employer. Let them go work for Muslims if they want a little understanding.

What it means to be a Muslim /fakir is getting over on people and winning entitlements that you perceive make you superior to the infidels. Making the non Muslim population realize and admit that as a Muslim you are entitled to special treatment is just the first step to dhimmitude.

Posted by: Kemaste at September 19, 2004 1:32 AM

First it's the hijab whether in school or on drivers' licnce. Then it's the Islamic dietary regulations that removed pork from school and workplace cafeteria. They have won the right to proclaim their prayers aloud from loudspeakers five times aday in Hamtramck, USA. Now they want Muslims to be given time off for prayers. Demands are being made to recognize Islamic holidays. Similar demads wre being made to allow Muslims to use Sharia laws for "family matters" in the west. This is life imitating the proverbial camel who initially asked to warm his nose and later his head inside his Arab master's tent and eventually the camel kicked out his Arab master and occupied the whole tent.

Yes the west is being Islamized.

Posted by: Nicolei at September 19, 2004 4:41 AM

Boycotting Whirlpool (or any other corporation, for that matter) is the way to go: all that is understand is 'the bottom line.' Thanks to boxter for pointing out the specific need to boycott Whirlpool.

voletti, your report is interesting, but not relevant in this case. You recounted an instance between Indian Muslims and Hindus: that has a whole different background and is located in a whole different culture. Please don't get me wrong: I believe the report and I believe the Moslems will do everything possible to fight back here. However, no one has EVER triumphed over evil with appeasement...just ask Neville Chamberlain.

Just remember the words of Santayana: 'those who refuse to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.' Or, how about Patrick Henry's: 'I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees.'

We do not need to go marching back into the 7th century just because we are either afraid of them or we want to be PC.

Posted by: lovingkindness at September 19, 2004 8:41 AM

BOYCOTT WHIRLPOOL:

People; please take a few moments before making decisions.Be methodical and remember an old proverb"keep your friends close and your enemies closer".

If you dont keep these people out in the open letting them think they are fitting into society where will they be? They will still be here.

I applaud Whirlpools Victory to uphold work force ethics and employ people in accordance to EEOC guidelines.

I know where the cesspool is in my area;do you?

Posted by: Chuck at September 19, 2004 12:21 PM

BOYCOTT WHIRLPOOL:

People; please take a few moments before making decisions.Be methodical and remember an old proverb"keep your friends close and your enemies closer".

If you dont keep these people out in the open letting them think they are fitting into society where will they be? They will still be here.

I applaud Whirlpools Victory to uphold work force ethics and employ people in accordance to EEOC guidelines.

I know where the cesspool is in my area;do you?

Posted by: Chuck at September 19, 2004 12:22 PM

If Muslims stopped relying on other people to be responsible for providing them jobs, then they'll have the freedom to lose money for their businesses when worker shut down the plants to pray.
I don't hear Muslim demanding to work on Christian Holidays,they'll gladly take the paid-day off for Christ,but Islam demands praying 5 times a day.
Once when a female Muslim was on a debate show a
Cleric attacked her for not wearing a hijab,he accused her of not praying 5 times a day and he was right,she prays 7 or 8 times a day and challenged the cleric who admitted he only prays
5 times a day.

Posted by: ala-sux at September 19, 2004 5:45 PM

It's about time. This should never have gone to court. Yet another prime example of the Muslims expecting preferential treatment and manipulating our laws to attempt to obtain it.

Bastards. American companies would be well served not to hire anymore of these worthless puppets of Mohammad. Send them back to where they came from.All of them.

Posted by: DCWatson at September 20, 2004 10:34 AM

boycotting whirlpool may be an idea, but it is better to boycott goods made by muslims in their own countries. take indonesia for example, almost all athletic shoes makers have plants there. nike, reebok and clothing manufactuers like levi strauss. it makes most americans sick to see jobs getting outsourced to slave labor markets, then sold back to us for the same price. when you by clothes for yourself or your children, you should read the labels on the apparel. you might be surprised to see many tags from pakistan, egypt, malasia ad nauseum.

Posted by: EYEjay at September 20, 2004 9:36 PM