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The Muslim News in Britain asked this of its readers (thanks to Ali Dashti for the link):
Who do you think you are? British-Muslim? British Muslim? Muslim in Britain? English / Indian / Jordanian / Nigerian / Other Muslim in Britain?The Muslim News is interested in your views of what you feel defines your identity in Britain in the 21st Century. What makes you proud to be living in Britain? What makes you despair? Who do you support when international sporting fixtures feature British teams? What do you call 'home'?
Some of the responses are quite reasoned. Others are quite revealing. Here are just a few:
well I don't know what being British has to offer any Muslim in terms of culture or idea's. Islam is a unique sytem and unique Identity. I ask you Muslims in Britain, would you fight for Britian in Iraq? Would you let your children "decide" if homosexuality is ok? Would you let your children decide if they should be Muslim or Kafir?I am sure you would say no to all. This "British" Muslim rubbish seeks to divide Muslims from Britian from the rest of the Ummah!!! Don't let this happen!!! Rashaad, Faisalabad, PakistanAndrew Ipswich: 2 things following your comment. firstly, all Muslim countries today are non Islamic and are run by greedy, Machiavellian rulers and cronies using Islam for their own benefit. That's why we're trying to get rid of them. The last true Islamic state (Caliphate) was the Ottoman empire that stretched from East to West.
Secondly, if freedom is ones capacity to exercise choice: what better choice is there than to worship the Creator rather than the disparing man-made laws?
Umm Sulayman, London, United KingdomI was bor and raised in a predominatly muslims country. Thre, we accepted them, but they never accepted us. Why is this? A Christian accepts a mulim, but a muslim will never accept a Christain? Why is this? We offer yiou peace, but you never accept it. Why? We belive you, but you never believe us. Why? We are trutful to you, but you are devious to us. Why? We allow muslims teachings in our countries (which we shoul not), but you dont. Why? You have a choice of leaving, why dont you?
Peter Lumaj, New York City, United StatesI believe first and forthmost as truely Muslim. I support any country who are Truely Muslim country. I don't believe be british culture.Howevery British society are very good poeple as ordinary society but government and police services are racist. I would not advice any truely muslim persons to come in UK whether to live or to work
Mohamed, London, United KingdomI consider myself as a muslim, first and foremost, where i come from is irrelevant. I am most definetly not a British muslim but a muslim living in Britain. I don't ascribe to the corrupt values thoughts of this society. Some people ascribe to the view that if we don't like it here then why don't we leave. Simply because i was born here. Also, at this moment in time there isn't a country which is implementing Islam in its entirety. We need to interact.
Saghir, United Kingdom>EXPLORE YOUR BRITISH MUSLIM IDENTITY HERE
>what british Muslim identity? is there a seperate 'british' or 'french' to being a muslim?
where are the sura's and hadith in this site!salam
abdul, Reunioni got a british passport but am not british. am muslim
zamzam, london, United Kingdomsalam,
being muslim or british has two diffrent identities and the two oppose each other u cannot mix islam with kufr, u cannot be a muslim and accept british values.
selina, United KingdomASSALAMUALAIKUM, Im a muslim & proud to be a muslim.Iwant 2be knowned&lookedat as a muslim.The word British does not make me happy or sad.Im happy to be called British MUSLIM becoz of d word MUSLIM and not british.Muslims shouldnt worry about being british,french etc coz dat would make muslims into groups of citizenship. Muslims all around the world are of one race,one family,one body,under one flag............... ISLAM.
WASSALAAM.
eEnam, west london, AlbaniaI am a Muslim and this can only mean one thing that I'm a slave of Allah, my life, my death and my wealth are for the cause of Him and his Messenger (s). How does a person geographical location of residence, passport or language have a role to play in defining his view towards life. This is a question of alliegence to the doctrines of Islam or the doctrines of secularism. There is no room within Islam to support secularism in any manner whatsoever, which is the cornerstone being British.
salman rahman, London, United KingdomThere can only be one path a muslim follows and that is Islam a complete way of life which has given us our identity,values and a vision for our lives this give us a strong personality.Surely we saw the best example in Muhammad (saw) while He (saw) lived and worked in Makkah he (saw)never compromised on Islam. There can be no other answer then we are Muslims and belong to one Ummah.
ummjanaan, Rochdale, United KingdomIf eating fish & chips,wearing a pinstripe suit makes me british so be it,as this is ok with Islam but if supporting british troops in iraq makes me british than I am definitely not that.I have heard people say "why don`t we go back to where we came from?" We cannot go back, we all came from our mothers womb just like all other humans.I am a muslim living in UK no more no less, our values are extracted from our sources i.e Quran & Sunnah and not from situation or circumstances past or present.
Abu Usayd, London, United KingdomAn individual is defined by his/her values, so when we look to the muslims throughout the world not just in the UK they see themselves as one collective people not divided by borders (despite the efforts of the west).
I have heard the voice of cowardice say that if we dont like it here we should leave. Such a notion does not belong in the mind of a muslim. We believe Islam is a complete system for life, it is superior to anything dreamed of by men and we will never accept secularising Islam.
Mohammed Michael Rashid Khan, Birmingham, United KingdomThe only identity I believe is relevant is that of Islam, my allegiance is to Allah and his Messenger (SAW) and unity is with the believers. I happen to reside/was born in UK. My duty is the same regardless of geography, ie adhere to Islam comprehensively.
Abdul-Rashid Hamid, Slough, Berkshire, United KingdomThe Westerners who live/work in the Arab/Muslim countries say they are "ex-pats": they do not integrate, they maintain their Western culture, lifestyle and habits & are proud of them, & display them to the locals to adopt. In the same way, the Muslims in the West must consider themselves as "ex-pats", & be proud to maintain our Islamic lifestyle, & resist any call to reject it for the bankrupt diseased culture we find here. One day we will return home to an Islamic State so lets be ready for it.
Ziad, Bradford, United Kingdomi view myself as a muslim living in Britain.Islam is a complete way of life and has soloutions for all problems.Our identity is clear we are muslims and our values,beliefs and principples have to emantae from our aqeeeda.
Islam covers all sapects of live from polititsc,economics,social and has soloutions to all problems faced by an individual and society.
If by being British we condradict any part of Islam then this is not allowed our allegiance is to nothing but Islam.
belal moahmmed, stoke-on-trent, United KingdomI am very dissapointed that people evenconsider this question as valid. The reality of what you are saying is like "are you half muslim and half non-muslim". I am sure that you are well aware of the fact that our creator did not address us in the above ways but just as Muslims. Therefore anyone that is calling for muslims to be recognised as Pakistani muslims or even British Muslims is working with those who are trying to water down the pure thoughts of Islam.
your Brother In Islam
Bashurat
Bashurat Ali, Birmingham, United KingdomWe are Muslims Period.
If we were in Occupied Palestine would we be "ISRAELI Musim" nauzubillah.
Our Aqeedah is Islam our values come from Islam our solution is Islam. Integration into secularism is apostasy from Islam.
"the jews and christians will never be pleased with you till you don't follow them" & "who takes them as friends is then one of them" [al Quran)
May Allah destroy the hypocrite integrationist who are puppets of the west
Yaser fasel, bradford, United KingdomI am a Muslim living in Britain; I don't believe that Muslim should be divided based on nationalism because, Quran and Sunnah have prohibited it.
Britain is a place were I reside nothing more and nothing less.
I believe that International sporting events are a means of promoting division and nationalism. Sport has been used by the international community as a vehicle to carry this dis-unifying idea to the masses, and we should reject all it's guises.
Muslim nation is one nation.
A. Milad Ali, London, United Kingdom
Asalamu Alykum
Muslims who calls themselves 'British Muslims'attribute themselves to the ingredients of British Society.
We have our own islamic values which are incompatible with any other creed. There will always be a clash of cultures between Islam and the Secularists in West.
British Muslim?
Just like saying Halal Pork.
Asalamu Alykum
Mohammed Nasir, Dundee, United KingdomDr Navidul Haq Khan, what alot of rubbish!! i shall remind u what being a British means...
1 Personal Freedom e.g Muslim girls should be free to date or marry non-Muslims?
2 Freedom of Expression-the Western media should be free to slander the Prophet (saw)
3 Sexual Freedom- Muslim youth should be free to express their sexuality anyway they choose?..& Muslim men should be free to commit adultery with women who consent?
Who can say there is no conflict with being British and Muslim??
Ramzan Haneef, Dundee, United KingdomSaying that your a 'British Muslim' is like saying that you are a 'Christian-Muslim' or a 'Capitalist-Muslim' - the source of our values is only the Quran and Sunnah - nothing else. British values include believing in homosexuality as legitimate, that human beings have the right to determine laws regardless of what Allah says, etc. Islam and Kufr (non-Islam) cannot be mixed. We are only Muslims, where we reside is irrelevent to our identity.
Abu Hafsa, Leicester, United Kingdomaslam i am only muslim born in britain not a british muslim and i only go by the sharia not by the so called freedom that democrcy says aslam naveed G
naveed, glasgow, United Kingdom
Posted by Robert at September 22, 2004 8:37 AM
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News from the UK:
http://www.apostatesofislam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=661
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/
http://news.independent.co.uk/
http://www.theasiannews.co.uk/
Posted by: Ali Dashti![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at September 22, 2004 9:15 AM
http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/S/shariahtv/
http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.org/
http://londonschoolofislamics.org.uk/
Posted by: Ali Dashti at September 22, 2004 9:17 AM
These comments reflect the fact that Islam is immiscible. As a belief-system, it does not mix.
The only community that counts is the one Ummah, the ummah al-islamiyya, the Community of Believers. All else is temporary; all else is trivial. Sometimes, of course, loyalty is offered to the family, the clan, the tribe. But it is a constant fight to get Muslims even to express loyalty to the Muslim nation-state. It is inconceivable that a True Believer would ever feel loyalty to an Infidel Nation-state. This hardly troubles most -- for they believe that the land in which they now live in fact, like the entire world, belongs to Allah, and to Allah's people. Those English Infidels who assume that Muslims among them are grateful to them for permitting them to live in England have got it all wrong. It is the Muslims who find it irksome, and more than irksome, that for now they must endure the indigenous Infidels, even yielding here and there to their ridiculous laws.
Of course, there are some who are born into Islam who, to the precise extent that they fall away from Islam, or do not take its doctrines seriously, do not feel quite this sole loyalty to the umma al-islamiyya. But how can Infidels detect the latter class from those who are simply feiging loyalty? Given the absolute mastery of deception, and the outward amiability of, for example, your local Pakistani newsvendor or greengrocer on Primrose Hill or in Islington (how are you? lovely day, have you heard about the test match? etc.), who behind your back is saying quite different things -- well, it is not a task that Infidels are up to, and they are entirely right to assume the worst. Only those Muslims who actively uncover taqiyya/kitman, and activley own up to the deplorable tenets of Islam (even if they wish to hew to the Five Pillars of indidivudal worshp), meet the minimum test of trustworthiness. As the general awareness of Infidels is raised, the bar of demands on Muslims will also be raised.
It is a simple matter. Survival of the attitudes, the atmospherics, the laws and the customs of England --De legibus et consuetudinibus regni Angliae, to bring back Bracton -- requires that this be understood. In England, in France, in Italy, in Spain, in Holland, in Germany, and everywhere in the Bilad al-kufr, the lands still in the hands of the Infidels. However silly and decadent the current inheritors of what we call Western civilization, they have no right to lightly cast aside the legacy they have inherited from centuries of people, some of them far more cultivated and worthy than their descendants: a legacy that is political, cultural, intellectual. It must not be subject to the mental desertification of Islam. Greater ingratitude can scarcely be imagined.
Posted by: Hugh at September 22, 2004 9:31 AM
Well at least they where honest ! Now to just have this type of question asked throughout the US in every newspaper, every radio station. Lets hear the truth, maybe eventualy some of this will sink into the general population and start waking people up!
There is no melting pot when it comes to Islam! These people have no intention of integrating into their countries culture, the sooner we all understand this , the quicker we can take action.
Posted by: balticbabe at September 22, 2004 10:37 AM
There's no need to add to Hugh's comment. These people idict themselves with their own words. They are merely Muslims that inhabit Britain, biding their time until natural increase or some event gives them the advantage of power over infidels, until they can occupy their rightful place as masters of the world.
Posted by: epg at September 22, 2004 11:09 AM
I'll bet they become as British as the Queen when they line up for their welfare benefits, though.
Posted by: Suzan at September 22, 2004 11:34 AM
HOw long before blood runs throught the streets of London and infidels are beheaded?
What will the guardian. Independant and the BBC print when this starts to happen?
How many would protest "human rights abuses" in sympathy if Al zarkawi was caught and brought to london for trial?
What are the chances that any of these comments might find column space in any major UK papers?
There is a HUGE way to go before the problem is even recognised in the Uk
at September 22, 2004 11:52 AM
Nonsuch: 'How long before blood runs throught the streets of London and infidels are beheaded?'
Come off it!
This is a very long list of comments, but Jihadwatch singles out the anti-British ones. There many other comments, some hostile to Islam and quite a few by Muslims along the lines of this:
'Am surprised that people don't seem to realise that religion is about spirituality rather than political wrangling. Finger-pointing/ seeking to place blame is a rather pointless exercise as abuses of power occur all over the world and no-one can point the finger at anyone else as no-one is perfect.
Am Muslim and British. Some of my best friends have been Christians. Surprises me that Muslims and Christians argue when they have so much in common.'
All very woolly, but most of the Muslims I've met take this kind of attitude. Of course the true Islam is exactly as the Jihadists portray it. The nice, moderate Muslims are just not practising true Islam. In fact they are completely ignorant of it and see Mohammed as a kind of Christ/Ghandi figure. Good person = bad Muslim and vice versa.
Some may be lying (taqiyya). Many more are lying to themselves.
I tend to judge by deeds rather than ideas. We need to monitor Islamic websites very carefully and restrict or ban immigration from Muslim countries, perhaps at the same time encouraging immigration from Christian countries. (This is actually happening already. Unlike the other EU countries, the UK has pushed for immigration from the former Communist countries of Eastern Europe.)Meanwhile existing laws on incitement need to be enforced - we don't need new ones.
Posted by: Interestd at September 22, 2004 1:07 PM
If these followers of the deathcult don't see themselves as British and are just "happy" to be muslims then it's time they all went back to their native lands. They obviously hate our infidel society so we'd actually be doing them a favour by shipping them back to Pakistan, algeria, Egypt where-ever. In fact it's actually our humanitarian duty to get them out of the UK and back to their disease-ridden islamic homelands. Go and take your mosques with you..
LOVE LIFE - HATE ISLAM !!!
Posted by: Son Of Albion at September 22, 2004 3:21 PM
I hope Rikki doesn't have an aneurysm when she reads this.
Posted by: Rottweiller at September 22, 2004 3:25 PM
If these followers of the deathcult don't see themselves as British and are just "happy" to be muslims then it's time they all went back to their native lands. They obviously hate our infidel society so we'd actually be doing them a favour by shipping them back to Pakistan, algeria, Egypt where-ever. In fact it's actually our humanitarian duty to get them out of the UK and back to their disease-ridden islamic homelands. Go and take your mosques with you..
Agreed totally, except an addition - Go in peace, and take your mosques and your allah with you.
The question is, how do we get them out of here. Muslims are parasites, and it would be highly unusual for a parasite to leave the host voluntarily.
All I can think of is to make the practice of Islamic rituals in the West, increasingly difficult. For instance the use of loud speakers to shout out that allah is the greatest, is a violation of the principles of the secular state in the West. In Britain, it is a grevious challenge to the Crown and the official religion of the Crown.
Ideas please?
Posted by: DP111 at September 22, 2004 5:28 PM
Hugh:
Of course, there are some who are born into Islam who, to the precise extent that they fall away from Islam, or do not take its doctrines seriously, do not feel quite this sole loyalty to the umma al-islamiyya.
It really does not matter. As you probably realise, it does not matter if such Muslims were committed Mulims or not. So long as they publicly procliam that they are Muslims, then for the purposes of the Jihad, they are enemies. The reason is that they are part of the demographic threat to take over the West by numbers.
Posted by: DP111 at September 22, 2004 6:00 PM
Well, I'm a Christian first and foremost, and openly protest laws and policies of my country, the USA, that conflict with Christianity--such as abortion, legalized homosexual marriage in some states, etc. Yet freedom of conscience and speech are rights the USA historically recognized (not granted), so it is also possible for me to be an American patriot (although I would not be able to recite the Pledge of Allegiance should the "under God" clause be cut out).
Of course, the fundamentals of my faith do not call on me to physically attack and kill or maim my neighbor who is not a Christian. Seeing the comments posted in this article on British Muslim identity makes me shudder that without a major rethinking of Islam, the UK and a lot of other European countries will face a vicious internal warfare of the intifada or Northern Irish troubles kind in the next generation.
Posted by: Kepha1 at September 22, 2004 7:45 PM
As events have shown, Jihadists only become 'British' when:
[a] Applying for welfare benefits.
[b] They are captured abroad and start screaming
for their 'rights' as 'British Subjects' where
previously have only belonged to the Ummah.
at September 22, 2004 7:46 PM
I once heard this matter expressed very well by a Jewish guy, something along the lines of:
'Am I British or Jewish? Am I my sister's brother or my mother's son? Of course I'm both.'
My Muslim friend says this sort of thing, but in fact she is ignorant of the true Islam, which doesn't allow dual loyalties. But I would give her and other decent people=bad Muslims the benefit of the doubt - they just don't understand or won't understand what their religion is really about. They think it's like Christianity but with no pork and more prayers.
Posted by: Interestd at September 22, 2004 8:03 PM
DP111,
"The question is, how do we get them out of here. Muslims are parasites, and it would be highly unusual for a parasite to leave the host voluntarily"
Aren't parasites purged or eliminated in situ?
The parasites either kill or enslave the host by weakening it. You gave your own answer. Accomodating the parasites in the hope that they will be satisfied in only partially feeding on and finally taking over only a part of the host will not work.
With what other ideas can anyone possibly come up?
Ah, but the machinations necessary to cope with a host who "doesn't want to hurt" the parasites is another matter. The mechanics will have to be worked out--over time. Let us hope over not too much time, lest the host(s) succumb.
Posted by: unicorns62000 at September 26, 2004 8:08 PM
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