On an entirely unrelated topic, I was wondering, who are most ppl on this forum going to vote for? Bush or Kerry? Did you see the presidential debate? Kerry won, eh?

What does Bush really have to say to Americans, anyway?

"John Kerry went to war in Vietnam and was honoured with three purple hearts...I choked on a pretzel and nearly died.."

I'm not trying to influence ppl or anything, but since Bush has been in power, relations b/w our two countries have been hanging by a thread for reasons including, but not limited to, Iraq. I'm afraid that with Bush in power for another four more years, relations will get even worse, and that should not happen between neighbours. By the way, some of you were offended b/c you thought I insinuated that Americans were hicks. I never insinuated that, nor do I think that. I'm sorry if that's the impression that some of you recieved. If you are still offended, a lot worse things have been written on this site about Canadians.Although, I think most ppl on this forum know that I wish no ill will to my southern neighbours. 56% of Canadians support Kerry, 19% Bush. What I want to know is, if you are voting for Bush, what makes him a better leader?

Also, one more thing, if you are wonding what's up with the Sharia court in Ontario, so am I. I've scoured the news, but there is nothing about it. I'll keep checking and keep you updated. I heard a rumour that the court was stopped from coming to Canada, I hope that's true, but I don't know for sure.

Posted by: Linda at October 4, 2004 10:12 AM

CHECKMATE

a proposal for israel to take care of the jihad problem. (or at least deal it a SEVERE setback).

http://www.think-israel.org/leiber.checkmate.html

Posted by: forrest shalom at October 4, 2004 10:48 AM

While the State Department is taking an interest in Bulgaria, as well it should, it might do a little research on the historic treatment of Bulgarians under Ottoman rule. A good place to start would be the 1875-76 massacres of Bulgarian Christians, which became the subject of some famous speeches by Gladstone.

Another source to consult would be Ivan Snegarov, whose study, published at a time when, of course, a few obligatory Marxist phrases are thrown in (these hardly vitiate the evidence he adduces) is a study of the consequences of Muslim rule, and of obligatory dhimmitude, over the centuries, and its consequences for Bulgarian Christans (and the small community of Jews), that deserves to be translated for the proper use by State Deparment officials.

Surely, given the State Department budget, given the importance of Bulgaria to the Pentagon's future plans, this text, and others like it, can be promptly translated, then distributed, then read and digested. The long historic memory of Muslim rule -- a rule based on texts, and on attitudes, that have not changed one whit (and cannot change, because the texts of Qur'an and hadith cannot be changed) -- needs to be understood. A little history, please.

State Department -- pencils ready? Here is the text:

Snegarov, Ivan. Turkish Rule as an Obstacle for the Cultural Development of
the Bulgarian People and the other Balkan Peoples. Sofia: Bulgarian Academy
of Science, 1958.

Chap. 3 The Forced Decrease of the Christian Population
1. General Characteristics. Captives Sold as Slaves.
2. Displacement and Extermination of the Conquered Population before the Mid-Fifteenth Century
3. The Cruelty of Mohammad II
4. Slaughter of the Christian Population during the XVI-XVIII c.
5. Extermination of Spiritual Leaders
6. Destruction of Cities and Villages
7. Mass Exodus of the Population Due to Turkish Terror
8. Devastation of Kardjali and Turkish Feudals (Osman Pazvantoglu, Ali Pasha of Ianina, etc.)
9. Violence and Cruelty during the Russian-Turkish Wars and Insurrections in Serbia, Greece, and Bulgaria
10. Terror regardless of the Hatiumayun and other Reform Acts

Chap.4. Islamization of Christians

1. Apostasy for Material Gains
2. Conquerors' Hate for Christianity. Violence Aiming at Islamization
3. Mass Islamization in XVI-XVIII c

Chap. 6 Economic Deterioration

1. Turkish Feudalism
2. Continuous Increase of Taxes and Levies on Christian Raya [=non-Muslim Population]
3. Severe Deprivation of the Christian Population
4. During the Period of the Tanzimat
5. After the Berlin Congress
6. Exodus of the Rural Population and Search for Livelihood in other Countries.

And one more text to whet your interest:
Bistra Cvetkova, "The Bulgarian Haiduk Movement in the 15th-18th Centuries" in East Central European Society and War in the Pre-Revolutionary Eighteenth Century, edited by G.E. Rothenberg, B.K. Kiraly, and P.F. Sugar, 1982.

An excerpt, at pp. 327-28:

"...the haiduk movement [a movement to liberate Bulgarians from Ottoman-imposed dhimmitude] and the spontaneous outbursts of the rayah
(dhimmi Christians) were a manifestation of the subjugated Bulgarians' national self-awareness as well as their implacable opposition to the system their oppressors had installed. Even in the scant information in official documents, the distinctiveness the Bulgarians felt comes through in the references to their clothing and appearance, both provocative to the Turks.
As one element of Ottoman religious and national discrimination, the non-Muslim rayah was forbidden to wear bright or striking garments; flouting this convention would be seen as rebelliousness. Thus the Turks testifying
against the haiduk, Voivode Chavdar of Sopotnica near Bitola, did not fail to mention that he wore a red cloak and feathers in his cap."

That is point one.

Point Two. Using money of American taxpayers to build mosques is a clear violation of the First Amendment's Establishment Clause. This cannot be allowed. A case must be brought at once to thrash this out, once and for all. No money should be given to a mosque, whether deemed "moderate" or not. And what texts will be used in the khutbas in these "moderate" mosques? And why encourage any mosque-going at all? There are plenty of Muslims who never visit mosques; these are the ones who are least likely to be a problem. For more on this population of non-mosque--goers, see the little, but very useful book by the commentator on Islam in Italy, Magdi Allam (by birth a Muslim from Egypt), that appeared this year: "Kamikaze Made in Europe: Riuscira l'Occidente a sconfiggere i terroristi islamici?" A little green book, 80 pages of text, a very good -- if not perfect -- guide to the problem (Allam hesitates to find the source of the problem in the canonical texts, nor does he recognize, in modern guise, the ancient Jihad, the ancient dhimmitude).

Third point. Not only is there a long history of oppression, and damage to Bulgarian culture, by the rule of Muslims, which no doubt will make Bulgarians undelighted with the State Department funding mosques -- even "moderate" mosques -- but the whole idea is ludicrous. Are we going to go around the world actually spending American taxpayers' money building mosques which, even if they are temporarily "moderate" (whatever that means -- and what does it mean, exactly? Tell us, please, before spending our money.,), they can always become, or their attendees can always become -- you know, the other kind. Is the State Department going to build or contribute to the building of these mosques and then going to monitor them from now until kingdom come? Is that the idea?

Fourth Point, or summary. Things are at such a pretty pass that we may have to endure the very stupid and ignorant policies that not only violate the most basic and most important of our constitutional rights, but that actually help to promote Islam. We may find, ludcrously, campagins of mosque-building where the Saudis are busily funding the certifiably "bad" mosques while we, American taxpayers, unable to stop or protest this nonsense, are being asked to fund the supposedly "good" mosques. But Islam's tenets are not good for Infidels, whether presented in Riyadh or in Fallujah, in Damascus or in Cairo. The tenets about Infidels, about what to do with Infidels, about how to treat Infidels under Muslim rule, remain the same. The "Wahhabi" version is not more extreme than the verison of Al-Qaradawi, or of the Pakistani reliigo-political leaders (is Qazi Abdul Hussain a "Wahhabi"? Of course not.), nor those in Indonesia.

Stop helping the spread of Islam. You are doing exactly the wrong thing. Unconstitutional, foolish, suicidal. Perhaps Roget's can help us out here -- dull-witted, dumb, asinine, idiotic, imbecile, moronic, simple-minded, dense, thick, obtuse.

Oh, one cannot go on. It is all too stupid. Too obviously stupid.

Posted by: Hugh at October 4, 2004 11:18 AM

One more thing. This is not going on in Bulgaria alone. Jihadwatch carried a story a few weeks ago about similar mosque-funding, by the American State Department, in Indonesia. One would like to know if the State Department is funding the building, or rebuilding, of the more than 2,300 churches destroyed by Muslims in Indonesia in 2003 alone (some put the figure as high as 4,000 churches). More information can be found from the Barnabas Fund, that samaritan organization that attempts to defend Christians from Muslim assault. If the State Department is not helping to rebuild Christian churches that have been destroyed by a "tiny handful of fanatics," no doubt the Indonesian government will be most pleased if it does so -- for what better way to show that Islam is a religion of "tolerance" and "peace" than to rebuild, with money that might otherwise go to silly things, like more tanks and planes, to rebuild those churches in a true spirit of reconciliation.

Try it, eh?

One is beginning to think that there are those in the State Department who have run amok, who think that they can make an end-run around the Constitution, and can ignore the American public, which if it were apprised of what is going on, would not approve of the support of those "good" mosques as opposed to the "bad" mosques. For the former can always become the latter; the major texts remain the same. The ultimate effect -- strengthening Muslim cohesion, making it easier to be a Muslim in, for example, Bulgaria. And why does the American government want to make it easier to be a Muslim in Bulgaria? Why is that in our interest? What do the Bulgarians really think (not what they may say pulbicly but what they really think and can communicate privately) about the foreign funding of mosques, whether by the sinister Saudis or the hopelessly naive Americans? There seems to be some notion that if Saudis are barred from funding, or somehow (how?) kept out, the Infidel authorities have a duty (!) to fund mosques themselves. Good God, what nonsense.

One cannot refrain from noting that the level of the State Department's understanding of Constitutional Law needs to be examined. Judging by its behavior in funding mosques in Indonesia, and now in Bulgaria, it seems to believe that the First Amendment was all about "the separation of Church and State -- but hey, there's nothing in it about the separation of Mosque and State." Take that, Zechariah Chaffee, Alexander Meiklejohn, Paul Freund. Take that, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, and all you Virginia remonstrancers.

Posted by: Hugh at October 4, 2004 11:33 AM

Linda;

Bush has to say to Americans "we are in a war and I'm willing to fight it".

Our relationship with Canada has soured because Canada has changed from a serious nation in WWII to a jihad enabling security risk. Your comment about Shari'ah in Canada is a perfect illustration of this. Let us southerners know when you've made a decision about whether to go with Western civilization or dhimmitude.

Posted by: Annoying Old Guy at October 4, 2004 1:02 PM

What is going on in the State Department? Do these appeasers really believe that building more mosques around the world is going to stop the danger islam poses. I can just see muslim terrorists saying "Oh we won't attack America now - remember that cute little mosque they built in Bulgaria ?" Appeasement is bad enough but is there something more sinister going on here ? Is this the hand of Saudi money once again influencing the whore that is the State Department. Add this to the US money building mosques in Indonesia, muslim schools in Kenya and offering asylum to 7,000
Russian muslims and you have to ask whose side is State on ? This isn't appeasement - it's collaboration !

Posted by: Son Of Albion at October 4, 2004 1:05 PM

I think it's pretty obvious that the Canadians have chosen dhimmitude. They seem to like a quiet life up there - musn't upset their multi-cultural dream. Oh yeah except when they called the Canadian Army in to stomp some Native Americans who objected to their sacred burial grounds being bulldozed into a golf course. Right now the Canadians are more intersted in protecting the rights of their seal "hunters" to slaughter millions of seal cubs then they are in defending Western civilisation. Canada, Spain, Sweden - how the mighty are falling.

Posted by: Son Of Albion at October 4, 2004 1:13 PM

I am appalled by the hate on this site, appalled and frightened that there are so many hateful comments posted by ignorant Americans, Canadians, British, Austrailians, etc. I find it immensely disturbing as a British person that people in my country can think this way and are allowed to vote and form political parties. Hating Muslims is not the answer, they are human beings just like you and me, they laugh, cry, feel pain just like everyone else. Do you really think that Muslims will read this site and become more moderate? If anything this site will create more extremism. People who believe the evil lies on this site are either evil or ignorant and brainwashed. How can those living in "the West" understand the hardship that the Arabs and Muslims have to endure? And no I am not a Muslim, I am however deeply spiritual and believe in divine providence that there will be justice for those that support the genocide of the Palestinians and the genocidal sanctions and invasions of Iraq. A fitting karmic punishment for the Jewish and Judeo-Christian Zionists should be reincarnation as Palestinian and Iraqi children, who have to live with fear day to day, who every night go to bed and hear bombs exploding outside, whose hearts race as they lie afraid in their beds, who have to live in fear of being raped to death by Zionist Israeli IDF soldiers or grow up in Iraq with horrific birth defects caused by America's use of Depleted Uranium ammunition, millions dead in Iraq due to the genocidal sanctions, children staving to death, whilst being told they "hate America's freedom". I was only a child of 10 during the first Gulf War and one night during the war I saw the worried look on my father's face whilst we were watching the news something he said that night worried me and I believed that the Gulf War was the start of World War III and I was scared and cried myself to sleep that night, but I didn't hate Saddam Hussein or Iraq or Arabs or Muslims, I didn't give in to hate like you people, I just wanted to live and I wanted me and my family to be safe and a decade later it is happening all over again and I just broke down and cried one day after a stressful day and I just thought about what Bush, Blair, Sharon, Howard, Berlesconi and all the other war criminals were doing to the world, murdering millions, destroying the enviroment, creating fear and anger, the people of Iraq did not care about Saddam or WMD or anything like that, they ordinary people of Iraq were not political they were just ordinary people getting on with their lives, enjoying their lives, enjoying their families, watching their children grow up and get married, smoking and drinking coffee with their friends, doing the things people do. Now Iraq is in ruins, thousands, millions of families have been shattered, a secular, socialist, baathist regime has been replaced by Islamic fundamentalists who have been so hurt, their lives so ruined, that they have turned their backs on this world and live only to die, to be reunited with their families in Paradise and the US-Israel-UK-Italy-Austrailia-Poland, etc. Axis of Evil sets its sights on another secular, socialist regime, the Baathist regime of Syria, which is against Islamic extremism and once again the vacuum will be filled with yet more martyrs who have nothing to live for. Why is the US so against the moderate and socialist Arab countries? Libya as well, a moderate Islamic socialist country. It seems to me that the US/Israel Axis of Evil is building up Islamic extremists by attacking moderate regimes because they want a WWIII between Islam and the so-called "the West" and once both sides have been utterly ruined the Zionists will offer and end to all war by abolishing all nations, races, ethnicities, religions (apart from jews) as the cause of racism and hate, and establishing a One World State ruled from Jerusalem, achieving the Zionist dream of World Domination and Zionism is not about a jewish homeland beacause the jews were offered a homeland in Africa, Madagascar, Siberia and each time they were offered a state they refused, because they knew that they must have Palestine to start WWIII and inflame tensions between peoples, for 4000 years the sole objective of Zionism is the enslavement of the entire world under a Jewish Supremacist regime, by turning nation against nation, people against people, religion against religion. And the barbaric requirement of circumcision, abstaining from pork, ritual slaughter of defenseless animals, all Islamic, all learnt from the Jews, I've not read the Koran but I have read the Old Testament and it is hate literature, it describes genocides and holocausts against the canaanites, Moabites, Amalekites and other nations of Middle East Asia and look at a modern map of the region, where is Canaan? or Amalek? or any other nation, these peoples were violently exterminated, and their land stolen much like the people of the Americas and Oceania were exterminated by Judeo-Christian fundamentalists who used the old testament as a mandate of genocide with the Indians and aborigines replacing the Canaanites as the target for holocausts. When Iran and Syria obtain nuclear weapons then the Zionist dream of Eretz Israel will be over and to avert nuclear war and being turned into the worlds largest glass parking lot Israel will have to learn to be a civilised country and give the Golan Heights back to Syria and withdraw to it's 1967 borders, allowing full citizen rights to it's non-Jewish population and to stop being an exclusivist, racist Jewish Reich and be a State for all people. Peace to all people of the world, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, etc. who only want to live in peace.

Some links where you ignorant, brainwashed sheeple can learn the truth about what is going on in the world:

www.rense.com

www.davidicke.com

http://joevialls.altermedia.info/

Posted by: Karl at October 4, 2004 1:44 PM

Yankee cash to spruce up the neighborhood mosques?

Last time I looked, Vitoshah st. was torn up for repairs, and the heavy equipment and giant machines meant to complete the work were abandoned on the roadside, their tires gone flat from age. The mosque by the water fountains looked shabby, but hey, at least it was above-ground, unlike the churches that are built into deep holes so one can look down at the roof while walking past. That is, walking past hoardes of five-year-old glue-sniffers who've been tossed out by their pregnant Moslem mothers who have younger children to worry about.

Sophia is a great place for meeting the European vanguard of the Moslem jihad: Albanian, Chechnyans, FYRO-Moslems meet with impunity, which means it's also open to the opposition to do the same. Cheap and central, the former Workers' Paradise/ police state of Bulgaria is beyond the frontier to this day, a wonderful place to sit and talk and take stock of whatever one's situation might be.

Sophia is hardly Zurich, but no one has to blindly imitate those who've gone before us with such great success, whose examples we'd be wise to follow. Yes, talk is cheap--until one finds there's a price to pay for it. Thank God for places like Sophia and Mexico, D.F. In cities like those one may meet one's own as well as the opposition, and from there the possibilities are abundant. Threats of grotesque violence aside, it's the ordinary discussion of practical matters that fills our enemies with fear. To talk rationally needs a neutral setting, a place where the streets remain torn up for years at a time because the government is to incompetant to fix them, let alone watch foreigners who discuss the details of the bifurcation of the Human population.

Sophia, the wonderful example of the blending of the cultures: Sunnis abounding, our Russian cousins available for the asking, and privacy. For those who celebrate the impact of this collision, what better place than Sophia for Europeans to meet to discuss the minute details of finance, personnel, logistics?

What though, is the goal? Specifically, what do we think we are doing? No goal, no plan. If that remains the case, our wisdon will be built over by our own tax dollars in support of Moslem restorations, and even the very main road of Sophia will sink into further decay. So, what are we reaqlly doing here?

Posted by: sonofwalker at October 4, 2004 1:59 PM

Karl,
Please read the Koran, and who is full of hate? Your post contains some pretty hateful comments, just depends on your viewpoint doesn't it?

Posted by: Carolyn2 at October 4, 2004 2:57 PM

Karl-

I'm not sure if your sentiments are for real or not, but you seem to have a lot of hate against Israel and the Jews. I've heard that anti-Semitism is making a comeback in a big way in Europe, and your comments seem to back that up. Nobody's saying that the situation in Israel is perfect, but you're neglecting to mention that much of the conflict is due to centuries old anti-Jewish hatred on the part of the Muslims which has become more useful since 1948.

And yes, there is much hatred and violence in the old testament. Mohammed chose to embrace all of it and use those choicest parts for his creation of the Qu'ran. The Jews, on the other hand, have evolved mightily over the last 2000 years, largely as a result of the experiences of the Diaspora which started in A.D. 79.

You rail on and on about genocide but neglect to mention the horrible crises in Darfur or Kashmir. Is this because the Arab press doesn't report on these issues too much? Maybe you're not to blame....the American press doesn't report too much on these areas either, unfortunately.

You seem to be young and impressionable, and I'm sorry that you've never known much of a peaceful world in your lifetime. Sadly, things don't seem to be getting much better in that respect.

Please read the Qu'ran...you'll find that it is anything other than a book of peace and tolerance, and that Islam stands apart from other religions in the worst ways possible.

If it seems to you that there is so much hatred here, just remember, we didn't start it.

Posted by: kafira at October 4, 2004 3:31 PM

56% of Canadians support Kerry, 19% Bush. What I want to know is, if you are voting for Bush, what makes him a better leader?

Posted by: Linda at October 4, 2004 10:12 AM

Hi Linda. Canadians should consider removing their spineless, pandering Government before your Royal Canadian Mounted Police are forced to replace their horses with camels. You poor folks have a Muslim infestation up there, and we feel for you.

Posted by: DCWatson at October 4, 2004 3:32 PM

Karl:

LOL - keep taking the tablets!

Posted by: Interestd at October 4, 2004 4:04 PM

Karl:

Certainly there are a lot of rednecks who comment on this site, but your rant indicates you are just as ignorant and red-necked as any of them.

For the record, Israel traded land for peace with Jordan and Egypt. Israel offered the return of the Heights to Syria, but Syria wouldn't deal. Syria, also, by the way, continues to occupy Lebanon, and through the process, has driven out most of the population and given no shortage of assistance to Hezbullah, making it a hero to the Palestinians, while it tortures and murders its own populace.

I could go on, but I doubt anything anyone could tell you would make much of a dent. You are clearly too deeply steeped in the historical revisionism manufactured by the "Nakba Industry". Otherwise, you might have noticed, as Amos Oz, a leading light of the Israeli peace movement, observed in 2003, that of roughly 28 conflicts raging around the globe today, about 25 of them involve Muslims in one way or another, and even between Muslim sects.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at October 4, 2004 4:25 PM

re: above, I meant that Syria has managed to drive out most the non-Muslim population of Lebanon (as they have also done within their own borders).

Posted by: waterdragon52 at October 4, 2004 4:27 PM

This things must be corrected, the US State can´t give money to build mosques, I am not expert in american politics but I can see that Powell is the left in republicns and lieberman in the right in democrats, and It notes, greetings

Posted by: Franze at October 4, 2004 4:28 PM

Oh Karl, you sad, sad knee-jerk leftie. Every phrase, every comment in your racist rant was lifted directly from the Socialist Workers Party newspaper. Every left-wing cliche in the book thrown in for good measure. Try thinking for yourself and then you might refrain from your ignorant commentary on the world as the Guardian would see it. "Genocide in Palestine" ? What genocide ? Do you even know what genocide is ? Try taking a look at Sudan where your "peaceful muslim" friends have butchered two million Africans in the last ten years. That is genocide. Did you shed tears for them ? Of course not - your Leftist world view can only see suffering if the "evil West" has caused it. You moving story of the poor Sunnis in Iraq had me crying (tears of laughter) ...yes those poor oppressed terrorists - the only thing left to them is to go out and blow fellow Iraqis to pieces or shoot even poorer Nepalese truck drivers in the back of the head. Yes I've often heard how the
survivors of the Holocaust were so distraught by what they'd seen that they went out and captured German civilans and sawed their heads off while shouting "god is Great" or how they packed car bombs with nails and glass so they could massacre Jewish children who were taking candy from American soldiers. Wake up ! And maybe if you feel such pity for the "poor muslims" and such hatred for the West then you should go to somewhere like Iran or Saudi to enjoy the islamic lifestyle. To stay here in the evil West, enjoying it's freedoms and liberties, would surely expose you as a hypocrite. Put your money where your mouth is and join the great Jihad against Judeo-Christian civilization. The Iranians are crying out for suicide bombers or you could help stone adulters to death. What next Karl - a tearful lament for the poor innocent Taleban ? You paint yourself as a humanist but your words of hatred for the West and the Jews show you to be an apologist for islamic fascism. In ten years time you will be ashamed of your self-hatred - as you are, I was, as I am, you will be..

LOVE LIFE - HATE ISLAM !!!

Posted by: Son Of Albion at October 4, 2004 4:38 PM

Hugh:
Do you really think that the state department is naive?
I don't think so. I think that they are collaborators with the muslims. Don't assume that they are stupid and don't know what they are doing.

Posted by: Voltaire at October 4, 2004 4:38 PM

Hugh:
Do you really think that the state department is naive?
I don't think so. I think that they are collaborators with the muslims. Don't assume that they are stupid and don't know what they are doing.

Posted by: Voltaire at October 4, 2004 4:38 PM

No doubt there is a certain amount of Loy Henderson residual dislike of Israel, and then there is always that irreducible percentage of any population that seems to suffer from the civilizational pathology known as antisemitism -- and for obvious reasons those in the State Department who so suffer will find a way to express that pathology in their sly defense of Islam, their promtion of the Islamic Jihad, and their inattention to the defense of the West, including their own country.

In this respect, all antisemites can be regarded now as security risks. For the pathology is such that one does not know how far it will take people, but as the runup to World War II showed (read John Roy Carlson, "Under Cover") antisemites were so busy making sure that Hitler could get on with his job, so busy insisting that America should not enter a war that "only Jews wanted" that, of course, the entire West almost went down the drain -- and could have, had not the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, and had Hitler not declared war on America. And the FBI, let us not forget, started rounding up the very people whom John Roy Carlson exposed.

Such people are everywhere, and unlike in the Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the Civil War, the Spanish-American War, World War I, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War, but like World War II, those who exhibit the symptoms of pathological antisemitism need to be considered a likely source of enemy agents. Ca va sans dire.

But one still must look around to see all the ignorance and stupidity -- and why one assumes that if that ignorance and stupidity are displayed by almost all journalists (not all, but most), by many "experts" on the MIddle East (not all, and with diminishing force, but still many -- including those who, of course, have always been supporters of Islam because they are either Muslims, or Arab islamochristians, or dislikers of Jews who have also had their private quarrel with, and resentment of, Christianity -- Karen Armstrong being an obvious example) -- why should the State Deparmtent not have, in some departments in particular, a considerable share of foolish people? The days of the well-educated, linguistically-gifted diplomat, sure of himself -- of Bohlen and Kennan, or of the inimitable David K. E. Bruce of both Staunton Hill and the Great World -- well, this is a different kind of person, with a different kind of mental formation, than the James Akins-Eugene Bird-Andrew Kilgore--Raymond Close variety, or whoever is parroting the latest Muslim party line -- "Dialogue of Civilisations" anyone? "Avoiding catastrophe because of Pentagon-warmongers" anyone?

Stupidity and venality still get my vote. Deliberate working to support the spread of Islam -- not here, not yet. But one must keep checking on people, to see who, without telling anyone, has quietly embraced Islam. Great theme for novels and movies, by the way. -- the slow, steady rise of Muslim agents, up through the ranks, say, of the French military, until they can get control of nuclear weapons.

Hollywood, are you reading this? Well, if you aren't, you should be. Perhaps you can alert people to something a little bit more important than aliens from Outer Space, overdoses at the Chateau Marmont, and suchlike. C'mon, join the war effort. Where is the new "Casablanca" now that Occupied France is Occupied France, and doesn't even recognize it. Where?

Posted by: Hugh at October 4, 2004 5:40 PM

Voltaire - What do you make of the State Department's blatant support of Islam and Muslims in the United States?

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/muslimlife/

There is no other reigion, ideology or ethnic group that gets this kind of coverage and support. Considering the danger that Islam is making for the U.S. and the West, why is the State Department encouraging Islam and Muslim immigration into the United States? To me this does not make sense.

Posted by: epg at October 4, 2004 5:43 PM

Karl - I just noticed your comment. You are ignorant of Islam and damage that Muslims have caused for more than a thousand years. Visit Muslim lands and see how non-Muslims are treated and notice what Muslims have to go through to be "acceptable" to other Muslims. You will notice that there is no freedom of thought of action and the views that you hold about accepting the humanity of others will get you hauled in front of the thought-police court where punishment is swift and brutal. The only way that you can continue to have and be able to express your thoughts will be if Islam does not take over in the West.

Posted by: epg at October 4, 2004 5:49 PM

epg:
What I make of it, is that I think that the State Department is a 5th column. And maybe the US government is too.

Posted by: Voltaire at October 4, 2004 5:52 PM

Hi Hugh.

You may be right. Stupidity may be the reason why the State Department does finances mosques etc. Though why they don't finance christian churches, especially since many have been destroyed by muslims is a mystery to me.

Maybe I just have a suspicious mind, but when anyone supports the enemy, I have to wonder where they're coming from.

Posted by: Voltaire at October 4, 2004 7:22 PM

Hi Hugh.

You may be right. Stupidity may be the reason why the State Department does finances mosques etc. Though why they don't finance christian churches, especially since many have been destroyed by muslims is a mystery to me.

Maybe I just have a suspicious mind, but when anyone supports the enemy, I have to wonder where they're coming from.

Posted by: Voltaire at October 4, 2004 7:22 PM

Hey forrest shalom ! Thanks for the link to "think-israel org" - the Checkmate article is AMAZING ! I only hope someone high up in the Israeli government reads it !

Posted by: Son Of Albion at October 4, 2004 10:57 PM

Karl-
Don't you have some trees to go hug???

Posted by: frontline_73 at October 5, 2004 2:14 AM

Why are we building mosques anywhere? That's the Saudis' job...

Posted by: Cato the Elder at October 5, 2004 11:25 AM

Sheesh, I keep thinking that my fellow JWers are going to get better at spotting 'em.

"Karl" is a muslim poser.

Posted by: CGW at October 5, 2004 12:28 PM

Re: post by karl.

This guys tirade is nothing short of pathetic.He should really be pitied for being so devoid of the slightest element of common sense.There isn't a factual argument that would penetrate his illogical mindset. As any good old american red neck would say, Karl you are full of shit!

Posted by: krkrjak at October 5, 2004 5:05 PM

So there isn't a factual argument that would penetrate my illogical mindset. Go on try. Or is that just an admission that I'm right and you are wrong? :-D

Posted by: Karl at October 5, 2004 8:31 PM

RE: post by carl 10/5/o4, 8:31pm

Sorry karl but it would be a waste of time, You are too far gone for any hope of rehabilitation. Obviously something has gone drastically wrong in your development. You sound as though YOU have been attending radical Islamic schools. Your earlier post is the most racist hate filled post I have seen on this site. Your cronies at your mosque must consider you a good little jihad prospect.

Posted by: krkrjak at October 6, 2004 12:20 AM