http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/896628.cms

More on life of dhimmis in the Islamic republic of Pakistan.

Posted by: Naresh C. at October 28, 2004 11:51 AM

Gee, what a surprise that they were restored. For myself, I can't wait until the city celebrates Winter Day on December 25th!

Posted by: PJ at October 28, 2004 2:04 PM

One fails to understand on what basis Ramadan banners, clearly identified with one religion, and one religion only, and not with a mixture of religious and non-religious symbols, as in the case of the creche-cum-Rudolph-the-red-nosed-reindeer-and-Santa case on city-owned property in Pawtucket, Rhode Island (Lynch v. Donnelly), can be permitted.

Someone must sue.

Posted by: Hugh at October 28, 2004 2:21 PM

Sorry sapps......And I commended them for having balls.......So much for that....I hope the good people of San Diego take the time to rip this shit off of the lamp posts, and throw them in the sewer system where they belong.

Posted by: DCWatson at October 28, 2004 2:41 PM

Hmmmm. Islam gets a pass and special treatment again. Are Californians willing to dhimmis. It's seems so.

Posted by: epg at October 28, 2004 4:56 PM

I can only hope and pray that the local Churches in San Diego get permits and put up banners that celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ during the months of November and December. And in April I expect to see banners that celebrate the death of Jesus Christ.

I wonder if the Moslems will object?
Im sure the ACLU wont object?

Posted by: Bar at October 28, 2004 5:10 PM

I think that it's about time to have a party called the Ban Islam party. Don't call it the Freedom party or any other name. Be specific about the name and what it stands for, banning Islam.

It wouldn't get into power, at least for a long time, but it WOULD give people something to vote for, and it would be very interesting to see just how many people DO vote for it.

How difficult would it be to register a party?

I don't think that you would need a huge amount of money in order to do it. You'd need some money for leaflets during the election, and I suppose for registering the party, but I don't think that you would need millions, at least not in Australia, and probably not in Europe.

Posted by: Voltaire at October 28, 2004 5:38 PM

This is an outrage these are religious banners and have no place in our society. Hopefully a lawsuit will be filed or outraged citizens will remove these banners.

Posted by: Roxane at October 28, 2004 5:53 PM

If you guys think that it's a good idea to ban these banners than I hope that all of you will join me in trying to ban Christian and Jewish banners/ornaments as well as Christmas/religious music from being played over loud speaker in the streets of Queens in NYC, which is paid for by local government.

Posted by: getdown at October 28, 2004 7:32 PM

You don't mean the southern California San Diego, bastion of conservative republican Reaganites? My oh my. Why, it's almost as if the threat of Islam ISN'T really a politcal issue, as if BOTH sides of the political spectrum have their dhimmis, apologists, and appeasers.

Damn... I thought that only lib'ruls and democrats did stuff like that.

I know! Governor Aaah-nold the liberal conservative will step in and "Terminate Dose Bann-ahzzz."

LOL...What a "girlie man."... LOL.

Posted by: kj at October 28, 2004 8:40 PM

Are these the same Muslims that fired a Catholic Female for eating un-halal food on her lunchbreak at her Muslim run Company.
So far in Canada during Ramadan one Imam in Vancouver called Jews the "Friends of monkeys and swines" and the head of the President of the Canadian Islamic Congress stated on TV during a debate on Terrorism that "All Israeli's over 18 aren't civilians and therefor valid targets for suicide bombers to kill regardless of gender or
age above 18".
The C.I.C. has posted a press release that they received widespread support from Jews,Christians,Muslims and other by email and phone calls that the Presidents comment was taken out of context and shouldn't resign because he works hard to bring harmony and understanding to all faiths.
Yeah,right,and calling for the killing of all Israelis over 18 and then saying you were only
reflecting the view of most palestinians was all part of fostering peace and a utopic multicultural
society.

Here's a thought,put Christmas banners on lamp posts near Mosques prior to December 25th,and maybe in front of the stores run by those tolerant peace loving followers of the pluralism
accepted by Islam and the Quran.
One Canadian province had a language law that promoted french and banned English only signs on store windows,the law stated that French print must be twice as large as English print.
The store owner(Anglophone) made a sign saying
" the province sucks" and had the French phrase
print twice as large.
Don't overlook the option to join in on this new ammendment to the Constitution where the State can now endorse a religion,even if its creator calls for a Global Jihad to claim the world for Allah by slaughtering the infidels.

Posted by: ala-sux at October 28, 2004 9:03 PM

One case that reached the Supreme Court ended in allowing the display, side by side, of a Christmas tree and a Menorah during the common holiday season. The opinion supporting the judgment characterized the display as not one promoting either, or even both, religions, but as together celebrating an idea -- the idea of religious freedom.

Now if Muslims wished to add a crescent to such a display, probably that too would be allowed -- though the geopolitical aspects of Islam would have to be thoroughly examined should someone object that Islam is far more than a religion as that word is commonly understood in the West. And just as significant would be Muslim opposition to such a humiliating treatment. For in Islam, Believers are taught not to greet Infidels first (you may return their greeting, but they must do it first so that they are in the "inferior" position); you must never recognize the religious holidays of others -- wishing someone Merry Christmas or Happy Hanukkah would be unthinkable for a believing Muslim. Putting a crescent next to a menorah, and a Christmas tree -- that would be intolerable.

It is bad enough not being able to build mosques high above churches, or always to include those minarets which are less necessary now when clocks and watches can take the place of the muezzin's wail, but are aggressive symbols of Muslim power (which is why they should always be opposed, and height restrictions in zoning laws be vigorously enforced).

Infidels are not as passive, compliant, yielding, in the United States, as they have proved to be, alas, so far in Europe. Instead of bending when threatened in a videotape, they are inclined to react in the other direction. Traditionally one has deplored the greater aggression and violence in American life. But just now, at this moment in history, that very strain of behavior may be a godsend -- in Iraq and at home.

Posted by: Hugh at October 28, 2004 11:19 PM

"This is an outrage these are religious banners and have no place in our society. Hopefully a lawsuit will be filed or outraged citizens will remove these banners."

It's the RIGHT of the citizens of NC to have christmas trees in their front yards. Its the RIGHT of NY citizens to be a part of a beautiful parade every year, the 'Christmas Day Parade'. It is the RIGHT of citizens of FL to be a part of Hannukah festivities. It is the RIGHT of CA citizens to have banners up at the time of Ramadan.

To say that any one of these events should be put to trial is ridiculuous and extremely elitist (look that up if you dont know what you are). I grew up in an America where I was able to learn more about Native Americans, Jews, African Americans, etc etc etc, and therefore, build respect for their beliefs, cultures, and views. Now, THAT America is slowly being stripped away by bigotted, ignorant groups of people who don't see past their own two feet.

I hope my kids will be able to attend Christmas parties at school, while attending Pow-wows on saturdays without being bullied and put down for their LAWFUL and god-given right to celebrate whatever they want to....Amen

Posted by: LukeWarm at October 28, 2004 11:48 PM

Way to go, LukeWarm!

Between you and Hugh this one is covered.

Keith~ when did Anyone here Ever claim there were no dhimmis among the conservative side? Hell, at least one neo-nazi group (your idea of a conservative, totally bogus of course) thinks the islamics are the best thing since sliced bread. Willful dhimmis if ever I saw them.

Luke~ Where I am, there are more native-run governments than I ever dreamed of. And you think I can Find a powwow?
Eh. I got married this summer. Now that I have the time, the snow is about to fly.

Posted by: Gary at October 28, 2004 11:58 PM

Lukewarm,

The point is if Christian and Jewish religious symbols are not allowed in public then Muslim religious symbols are forbidden as well.Islam is no better then any other faith in America. It was correct to remove the banners they should not have been restored and I hope a lawsuit is filed to remove the Muslim banners permanently.See this is America and I have the right to say that.

Posted by: Roxane at October 29, 2004 5:06 AM

Roxane~ Well, I agree it would get the islamic symbols out of the way (altho I don't believe they are anywhere near as valid as Christian or Jewish, but that's another point).

However: Downtown would be kind of bleak during the winter. At least C & J symbols have a bit of cheer to them.

Posted by: Gary at October 29, 2004 6:25 AM

Christian symbols not allowed in public?? I don't know who's kidding who here, but all along the streets during Christmas I see lights, christmas trees, signs up....and let me emphasize the word 'streets.' I'm not referring to just my lawn that may have something up (since that's considered private property). I am refering to the streets d-o-w-ntown, some major buildings uptown, etc etc. On news stations and radio programs we hear christmas blessings 24/7 from thanksgiving till easter.

Hmm besides that, lets look at everyday non-holiday things while we're at it. The 10 commandments are still in MANY governmental buildings. The dollar, you know the one we spend everyday, has 'In God We Trust.' Try to change that statement to 'In Vishnu We Trust' or 'In Science We Trust'. What a field day that would be...

Apart from the reality that these religious signs in public DO exist, it's not wrong to have them up. I like the fact that 'feel' christmas in the streets AND at home, at the mall and at work, at school and with friends. It represents the reality of the mix of people that make up our great country called the US of A.

Now to restrict others from that same right, whether they be islamic, hindu, or jewish, is FAR beyond these principles of our forefathers and this nation.

Our own society has become so ethno-religio-centric that we can't stand up for people's rights anymore. See this is America and Earth, and I have the right to say and believe that.

Posted by: LukeWarm at October 29, 2004 6:33 AM

Christmas trees have nothing to do with Christianity; and the Miss-Minnesota-in-a-Nightie-and-wings they pass off as "angels" aren't very Christian, either (heck, the Gospel of Luke says the shepherds were SCARED when they saw angels!). Indeed, in several NE state with large Roman Catholic populations, cases arose where nativity scenes on public spaces were outlawed (BTW, as a Presbyterian, I object to purported images of God incarnate) by Supreme Court fiat.

My only hope is that if the Muslims get their Ramadan banners; Christians can put up Gospel Texts, and the ACLU gets told to stick its collective head in the toilet three times and take it out twice.

Posted by: Kepha1 at October 29, 2004 9:06 AM

Lukewarm - I'm with Kepha1. Let's put the Ten Commandments back into public buildings and public school classrooms as well as Christian Crosses, Stars of David, and all other religious symbols. Then all religions will be treated equally. All are none. Equal treatment is all that's required, the reason why we are complaining about the Ramadan banners.

Posted by: epg at October 29, 2004 9:42 AM

"My only hope is that if the Muslims get their Ramadan banners; Christians can put up Gospel Texts, and the ACLU gets told to stick its collective head in the toilet three times and take it out twice."

I completely agree with you Kepha on making sure all people get due and just treatment, and definitely islam is no better than christianity. However, there is a huge problem with reasoning here. We are setting 'Happy Ramadan' banners on a lamp post equivalent to gospel texts in a government building.

I am personally against having any religious text present in a govt building because they have no place there (i don't expect to impose what i believe as scripture in a federal place) but that is irrelevant in this matter because we aren't talking about a courthouse. A Happy Ramadan sign on a lampost? I'm not throwing a fit when i see Happy Hannukah commercials because its their right to say a statement of blessing 'Happy this or happy that'. If we say that it's wrong to say 'Happy Ramadan' on a street corner then thats saying 'Happy Hannukah' should be prohibited from puclic festivities in the same rationale.

I get worried too that the government may do the reverse to protect all people and put them on the same page, when sometimes they put the minority rights above others. But come on folks, a sign on a lamp post is not 'threatening' in any manner, and if it is to you...i'd wonder why.

ps: if we continue trying to prohibit muslims from displaying their religious freedoms, it will come back to haunt us and affect us too. ie: "well christian groups refuse banner on lamp post by muslims, so no nativity scenes can be put on your front lawn, and no public hymns, and no this or that." lets just be wary...

Posted by: LukeWarm at October 29, 2004 1:10 PM

Equal treatment for all in America. People have sued over nativity scenes and had them removed from public display so there is nothing wrong with a lawsuit over Islamic banners.Islam is no better then any other religion and should be treated the same as other religions.

BTW- it's perfectly acceptable to have a ramadan banner or a nativity scene on the lawn of a private home.But if we say religion should not be a part of public life then Islam is to be restricted as well.

Posted by: Roxane at October 29, 2004 2:48 PM

Banning Ramadan banners is a double-edged sword. I agree that churches in San Diego need to go overboard this year and dare the ACLU to intervene.

Christianity is NOT dangerous. That's the kind of thinking that led to this PC bullcrap to begin with. Everything being equal, Christianity as an ideology will beat Islam hands down...

Posted by: former liberal WF at October 29, 2004 4:26 PM

So Ramadan banners are not religious in nature - get real?! Either do not allow them since they represent a religion or allow other faiths to have their banners up for their religious times as well - Dawali, Christmas, Passover, Easter, etc. If the ACLU fights any of these but do not fight the Ramadan banners, then why doesn't someone sue the ACLU for misrepresenting what the ACLU really stands for - any religion is to be completely taken out of the public public except for the religion of peace - Islam!
jihan

Posted by: jihan at October 29, 2004 9:25 PM

Ramadan banners return to lamppost's

In the name of God why?

I lookforward to reading of the placement of the Christian Crucifix on lamp posts during the Easter Celebrations of 2005....ahhhh heeeemmmmm
Say what ??? you dont think so ????? Oh!! why is that ????........
The Pope has not yet ordered the conversion or destruction of all NON Catholic's Oh I see I guess that does make a difference then ...does it really ?

allah the Moon God coming to a City Hall near you soon.

Yours faithfully,
RSole

Posted by: RSole at October 30, 2004 8:24 AM

Wow,the fact that Muslims believe that an evergreen tree is part of Christianity just shows who the real ignorant and intolerant ones are.
When you consider that the desidous trees are void of leaves in the winter it only makes sense that a conifirous evergreen would be used in cold climates.
I worked with a Muslim that thought Christianity
was Santa,the Easter bunny,drinking wine in Church,and other obsurb rituals he was taught inside a Mosque. Just imagine what's being said
in private and what the Imam's really tell Muslims on Friday's Jew-bashing sermons.

Posted by: ala-sux at October 30, 2004 10:09 AM

To non-muslims what the hell does Ramadan Mubarak mean? Is the brother of the dictator Egypt coming to town? Even the leftist bastion of the peoples republic of Santa Monica, still haven't renamed their city Monica. Maybe if all Christmas Greeting were henceforth in Aramaic, pubic display would be OK. Feliz Navidad and peace on earth to men of good will.

Posted by: Deanr at October 31, 2004 1:53 AM