I learn now that it is possible that I would disagree with Mr. Spencer.

In that, children receive permission to observe Ramadan (or Yom Kippur) away from the cafeteria - makes sense and in this aspect I agree.

HOWEVER . . .

re: " . . . Hashim, 12, was escorted by a teacher to a private room twice during the day so he could pray."

I beg to differ here:

ESCORTED BY A TEACHER . . . TWICE . . .DURING THE SCHOOL DAY . . .

To expect public school teachers to accomodate ANY religious practice during school hours (outside of lunch) at multiple times during the day is unacceptable.

Under this pretext religious students, regardless of faith would be permitted to leave class during the school day (escorted or not)to a separate area to pray. What about multiple times to pray? Does this separate area have supervision? Will there be separate areas for each faith? Will there be enough "separate areas" or enough space in these areas, and enough supervision to accomodate the faithful?

If a child is of an age that he/she prefers to practice his/her faith at a level that would be disruptive to a normal school day, then he/she should remain at home or get home schooling or seek a private school.

Posted by: justamomof4 at October 30, 2004 8:32 AM

True.
I agree with justformom's thoughts.
In a private capacity, a person can observe thweir religious faith provided it doesn't break any local laws and rules. I mean you can't force hindus into eating beef if they don't want to, eh? Similarly, yuou can't force muzzies to not-fast if they wanna fast anyway. But providing any sorta offical support for such endeavours crosses the line of professionalism and secularism.

Posted by: voletti at October 30, 2004 8:54 AM

Justamom and Voletti: In the United States, Public Schools are not allowed to promote or facilitate ANY religion. There is a strict separation of religion and state regarding publicly funded schools. This is a clear violation of the constitution. So, where is the ACLU? If it was Christians demanding a place to pray, the ACLU would be screaming.

Posted by: Mentat at October 30, 2004 9:22 AM

The issue or prayer and Ramadan is a farce and cheap ruse to impose Islam on non-Muslims by proxy. Western Muslim live in a different time zone and they also view the Moon later then the MiddleEast Muslims.
If they truely believed in following islam and obeying Mohummed's teachings they would pray by Mecca's clock and start Ramadan before they actually observe the Moon.
Islamic Org's in Canada continue to push for sperate prayer romms and not shared areas,you can't hire extra teachers to escort every kid demanding prayer time during school hours.
When a Gay lobby in a University demanded a after hours Bible study group be banned from the property because of homophobic verses and "Hate-speach" in the Bible,the Christians running the non-Mandatory open class demanded that a similar
Islamic prayerclass and study group be banned from the University.
As usual,the Christians were booted out but the university needed to review the Islamic after hours classes to see if they also should be asked to stop.
These gutless PC's only confirm that Muslims are predisposed to paranoia and denial,this in turn make them quick to resort to violence and Jihad to protect a perceived faith of Peace and tolerance.

BTW,when a Pro-Arab student body created a calander and handbook showing planes slamming into the WTC and a "Burn the Canadian flag" day,the University did little to punish or expel the foreign students and used the Free-speach arguement to allow it.
Ironically,this is the same University that now bans Israeli speaker's from the campus in fear of another Terrorism-style riot by the Arab and Muslims attending the school. The free-speach for Palestinian students to promote the killing of Jews just re-enforces the clames that Islams goal it to destroy all infidels and wipe Israel off the map.

I'm in favour of profiling foreign students and insist they must sign a paper agreeing to leave personal hatreds out of the Country and also pay for any damage they cause during riots on school property. Failure to obey the rules will void their Visa and be removed to a Country that condones their views for killing Jews.

Posted by: ala-sux at October 30, 2004 9:42 AM

Let us face it: the real reason why the Muslims are allowed to violate our Constitution is because they will riot, threaten, seethe and intimidate if they don't get their way. The law-abiding, peaceful Christians can be expected to meekly submit to government fiat; the Muslims won't.

Muslim mafioso tactics win again.

Posted by: Suzan at October 30, 2004 12:08 PM

If the muzzies cannot live or tolerate the laws of our land... THEY SHOULD F**KING LEAVE!

Posted by: Ummagumma at October 30, 2004 12:37 PM

If Muslims in America were sincere in their concern about their children and their religious practices, they should homeschool them (I do know one Muslim woman who homeschools her daughter.)

But since that is not the case here, it appears they are just seeking more special rights from the US government.

Posted by: abad at October 30, 2004 1:11 PM

Hmmm. I wonder if any instruction can now take place as students will be trotted off to pray. Perhaps a segregated system will now have to be implemented - this classroom for Muslim girls. Another for Muslim boys.

That one for Christian boys, or boys and girls. Another for Jews, yet another for Wiccans (yes, they are a growing group). How about classrooms for atheists. i can see that atheist parents would take exception to their children not receiving equal treatment in circus that is to come.

How in the world will teachers be able to prepare students for state-madated achievement tests for promotion and graduation?

I'm sure that I haven't thought of everything. No, giving Muslims special priviliges, to allow them to pray during the school day is going to open a can of worms and cause problems the likes of which we have never seen in our school systems.

Posted by: epg at October 30, 2004 2:00 PM

mentat and others....

Don't expect the Marxist ACLU to take up a christian cause. Lest you forget it has BEEN the ACLU throughout the years that has thawarted any efforts by christians to have any religious symbolism allowed in public school systems. Keep in mind the real goal of the Marxist ACLU, that is to undermine the very fabric of the American way of life.

Posted by: krkrjak at October 30, 2004 4:13 PM

For any discrimination against Christians, contact the Alliance Defense Fund. Defend Christianity; defeat Islam.

Posted by: former liberal WF at October 30, 2004 7:30 PM

May the litigation begin! I have no children in public schools but if I did, I would not tolerate this. This is just the beginning, the best is yet to come. As history demonstrates, Muslims never stop demanding special privileges once they are granted the first.
They will persist with demands to accomodate their vile religion until they have contorted and mangled every American institution, from education to the highest levels of government. They will interject Islam into our lives incrementally and subtlely and before we know it, they will be clamoring for Shariah.
Each small concession will seem trivial to most people but the more they gain, the more arrogant and demanding they will become.
Our schools are already a pathetic mess, unable to instill the rudimentary elements of education in today's students. The can of worms that the multiculturalists have opened might well precipitate the end of American education as we know it. That could be a good thing, but it might also produce a more egregious educational travesty.

Posted by: Susanp at October 30, 2004 7:42 PM

Next they'll be demanding separate washrooms for Muslim girls and a special trough for washing their feet befor praying. I say this because a Canadian Islamic Org. wants Muslim children taught in Muslim only schools so the boys and girls don't get exposed to the present Female teachers that don't dress to Islamic codes.
The Org also wants Female teachers for any class in the current Public system that had Muslim girls,there're willing to tolerate a godless Infidel in front of their child but they draw the line at men teaching girls.

Wake-up folks,if this is how powerful they are while being only about 2 percent of the US population,just wait until the Arabs start shipping them in masses to the west for their future conversion of America to a Islamic Nation
as avered by Mr.Hooper at CAIR.

Posted by: ala-sux at October 30, 2004 8:51 PM

Of course only the male muslim prays. It's just a waste of time for the females, being of a non privileged class. But I think the girls should have to sit in the cafeteria. Heck, the Jehovahs Witness kids have to sit in class while everyone else recites the Pledge of Allegiance. And since the Earth is round, can a muslim pray toward Mecca in either of two directions? Just wondering.

Posted by: Deanr at October 31, 2004 2:17 AM

I watched a debate by a panel of Muslims and one of the male Muslims attacked a female Muslim that was also a self professed lesbian,the man accused the lesbian of not being a true Muslim because she didn't wear a Hijab like the other obedient female guests,and then he put his foot in his mouth by declaring "she doesn't pray 5 times aday I'll assume",he was right,she said she often prays 7 or more times aday.
Muslim men appear to feel they have some intitlement to abuse female and control all rules for woman in general. You really wonder what goes on in the privacy of Mosques after most western Muslims remained mute on middleEast terrorists using Mosques as weapons depots or sites for waging war.

Let the Jew-Bashing begin,the doors are shut,the females are sealed in their own prayer room,the Quran is turned to the verses we never hear about,money is collected to fund Jihad in the middleEast,and on and on.

NO ISLAM - KNOW PEACE

Posted by: ala-sux at October 31, 2004 3:46 AM

First of all, I'd like to state that this being an open forum is complete BS. I commented a couple of times in defense of Muslims and look at that, my sign in name won't work anymore...hmm. Now lets take some comments into analysis shall we...

"Let us face it: the real reason why the Muslims are allowed to violate our Constitution is because they will riot, threaten, seethe and intimidate if they don't get their way."

Actually, the Irish ancestors of this country dealt with prejudices, as well as the black community pretty recently. Its unfortunate that there must be protesting to defend one's community, but it only means theyre unified. Those that are threatened by protestation are those that only want the US to have policy that fits THEIR lifestyle and THEIR beliefs. Word of advice: not everyone is Christian, White and 3rd Generation American...many are mixed (Asian, Euro-, African) and are of no or different type of Faith.

"If the muzzies cannot live or tolerate the laws of our land... THEY SHOULD F**KING LEAVE!"

haha,actually thats quite funny...i can even imagine the type of uneducated, slang-tawkin incompetent that would have enough balls to type that on the internet...why don't you tell blacks to go back to africa, and jews back to israel..

"In that, children receive permission to observe Ramadan (or Yom Kippur) away from the cafeteria makes sense and in this aspect I agree...."

hahahaha it makes sense in the aspect that you agree? so i should wait for the manual in the mail... "Things are only permissable if Jews are allowed to do it and if _____ agrees with it"
yeah, simply logical...

"HOWEVER....To expect public school teachers to accomodate ANY religious practice during school hours (outside of lunch) at multiple times during the day is unacceptable."

guys...this person already told you that if they don't agree with something, then it shouldnt be allowed cause it doesnt make sense. so of course you dont agree with allowing a second prayer time...because thats now how you do things...so no one else should. So if jews didn't fast or pray for yom kippur, muslims would be forced to give up their month of ramadan, go to another country, or just sit back and tolerate that?
i hardly believe that your rationale will ever be applied: if jews can do it, so can you....

my id will probably be taken off again, so in that case...i'd like to express my opinion. most of the people responding here seem, at the least, threatened. from fear sprouts ignorance and intolerance....and hence, this forum.
i am strong in my faith, and no muslim or jew threatens that....but the people that are threatened are intolerant individuals that have no shame in their idiocity (examples shown above).

most of these people have never written publicly because you're banter is not valid in the eyes of writers and the general public. youre logic is selfish and trivial, and all they want to do is insult others to promote your own self worth. so im glad theres a forum for ppl like that to vent......Happy Venting..

PS: the above comment 'Happy Venting' is not in any way related to a religious event and therefore can be made into a banner and posted anywhere...

Posted by: LukeMan at October 31, 2004 5:00 PM

LukeMan

You remind me of a guy at my workplace that
only defends free-speech if it fits in with his version of reality,and he too reached back to the slavery issue and threw in the Nazis for adding a dramatic element.
I have nothing against a evenly applied rule,but when I decide the speed limit doesn't apply to me because I'm above the standards of the others,this creates a two-tiered system where there should be no rules to make it fair for all persons.
Your paranoia and denial are amazing,looks like everybodies out to get you and there's no evidence you'd accept to show otherwise. The pattern of analyzing things to death is common for people that leave a relationship and write pages and pages of why they weren't the reason for the failed romance.
Life will be far better if you accept that people have the right to be wrong,and life isn't about you.
I also expect you to go on a tirade about my opinion,but that's OK,I believe you have a right to express yourself and it's also easier to prove if you're an idiot. Free-speech lead to a leader of a Islamic Org in Canada to call for the killing of all Israelis over 18 because they're not innocent civilians according to the Quran.
Muslim are lucky that most non-Muslims don't blame them for the sins of their brothers,but one child in school that doesn't get special treatment as a Muslim bring out mobs that see this as a attack on Islam by the infidels that
offend Allah.

Good luck with your med's.

NO ISLAM - KNOW PEACE

Posted by: ala-sux at October 31, 2004 5:52 PM

"and all they want to do is insult others to promote your own self worth."

point proven :)

Posted by: LukeMan at October 31, 2004 6:55 PM

Rather than venting, this website is exposing Islam for what it is and what it is trying to do to us, who are not submitting to Islam. The information is not directe towards Moslems, who think that they already know what Islam is, but towards our fellow non-Moslems who are not yet aware what Islam is and what it has in store for them.

Every time a Moslem posts here, he/she helps our cause (exposing Islam for what it is).

As for people on this website never being published, see (and read) "Onward Muslim Soldiers," by Robert Spencer.

Posted by: unicorns62000 at November 1, 2004 3:25 AM