Omar Bakri says that it is foolish to fight people who want death. But if they only want death in order to go to heaven, then that can be taken away from them, by putting bacon on their corpses. Then they will go to hell.

Come on guys, we know their weaknesses, let's use it against them.

Posted by: Voltaire at November 5, 2004 7:34 AM

We musn't alienate others, but of course, they can alienate us.

Posted by: Voltaire at November 5, 2004 7:35 AM

Utterly pathetic. The self hatred is unbelievable.

Posted by: Kaffir Boy at November 5, 2004 8:19 AM

Yes, Kaffir, 'pathetic' is a good word. It's sad, very sad, to see this pathetic grovelling and lack of pride in a wonderful country. What do they hope to achieve? Religion hasn't been a big deal for many people for years, and nobody's given a crap about Saint this, or St. that. It's just part of the culture, the countryside, the history. Meaningless if you're not religious, but certainly not offensive. And certainly not "alienating"! Who are these people who come up with this idiotic crap? They're truly screwed up in the head. What makes them like that? It astounds me that people like this exist.

Posted by: feralee at November 5, 2004 8:51 AM

Everyone who can read, must educate himself about the precise contents of Islam. It is not difficult. It might take two dozen evenings of study to acquire enough information. One could go online to www.faithfreedom.org. Or read Ibn Warraq's essay on the similarities between Islam and Fascism. Or www.dhimmitude.org; www.nojihad.org, and the archives -- the indispensable archives of recent events -- at this website.

One could find out how, in Qur'an and hadith and sira, Muslims are taught to regard Infidels; free and skeptical inquiry; sculpture; painting; even dogs (if dogs have started to be murdered or mysteriously disappeared in a neighborhood with Muslims, the police might start by looking at certain hadith for clues).

Unless this attitude of airily talking about Islam as if it is simply a "religion" and we all know that "religions" are more or less the same, what happens in Europe, and in America, will lead inevitably to the loss of civilization, autonomy, and mental freedom -- for that is what Islam offers.

Disputes between Infidels -- on whether "secularism" or "religion" (i.e. a real religion almost entirely concerned with individual worship, not a belief-system -- wrongly called a religion, that is akin to totalitarian regulation of all areas of life, and including a geopooitical program for conquest and subjugation, of all non-Believers).

It has been more than 3 years since the Alarm Bell rang. A few never needed that bell -- look at Bat Ye'or's books, and their dates of publication. Others woke up, but are still rather slow and drowsy in their response. Still others decided to go back to sleep, for another forty winks. And many managed to wake up, and then go back to sleep, just as soundly and heedlessly, as before. And while the flames may come and go, so that one cannot always see them, the fire is spreading, silently, and in places undetected, through the house.

Posted by: Hugh at November 5, 2004 8:54 AM

In the days of Bloody Mary, Bps. Cranmer and Ridley went to the stake; with Ridley stating "Play the man, Cranmer. Today we shall light such a candle as, by God's grace, will never go out in England."

Well, it looks like the faithless heirs of Cranmer and Ridley are trying to put out that candle with all their might.

Posted by: Kepha1 at November 5, 2004 8:58 AM

IMHO the large falling-off in Christian religious belief in the UK is partly, at least, due to the National Curriculum. Teaching that all religions are equally valid (and I'm not saying they're not, apart from islam) and equally true leads to atheism. Believe me, I know. Both of my children (15 and 17),who attended both Catholic and C of E schools are now atheists. They say 'if all say they're true, then none are true'.

Posted by: Setanta at November 5, 2004 9:34 AM

I guess they are going to drop the "saint" bit of the schools name and call it "Lord Osmama Fundi Academy" with "serving death to all brain-dead infidels with a smile" as its school motto to be put on the school crest depicting severed infidels heads and other assorted body bits. It would make a great lapel pin for the school captain/warlord.

All worthless traditional kaffir subjects like English/literacy will be banned. Play-dough for the younger students will be replaced with semtex. Head banging four times a day on concrete without any aneasthetic (helping to improve Islamic intellect) will become mandatory as will classes in bomb making and making ricin cookies. They can then sell those cookies to all the old infidel ladies in the local area to enjoy. At the school assembly every morning they can tick off the number of "ricined" grannies....after the mandatory Hilter salute.

The portrait of the Queen in all rooms will be the next to go replaced with a portrait of a screaming Osama assaulting infidels with a axe".

Ahh..yes...what an improvement. England, your multicultural ricin cookies are ready...enjoy.

Posted by: obl r us at November 5, 2004 9:42 AM

Setana, both your children who have become atheists are evidently intelligent. Once a level of education is reached, and that presupposes adequate science, then crude beliefs such as those held by Islamists become untenable and even absurd.Our Judeo-Christian heritage however has left us the basis of a legal and moral system that towers over that of Islam which festers beneath,doomed, as all the great religions are, but dangerous in its dying.The removal of St.Mary Magdalene's name from a school in Islington reflects the intellectual poverty of the councillors and the insidious stirring of those who would wish to see an alien emblem over the porch and a dome on the roof.

Posted by: doc.D at November 5, 2004 10:53 AM

Once again the logic of da'wa:

The issue is not what Muslims should do to adapt to a society that is nonMuslim, but what Muslims should do make the nonMuslim society adapt to Islam.

Posted by: JTF at November 5, 2004 11:18 AM

And, once again, this process is indefinite, there are no boundaries or limits except the logical, natural end, the telos of Islam itself:
domination.

Posted by: JTF at November 5, 2004 11:21 AM

That's www.nojihad.com Hugh.

Your not going to get many hits with the wrong url.

Posted by: fides at November 5, 2004 11:30 AM

Christianity, unlike Islam, is not incompatible with intellectual thought. Just as a person has an exercise routine for a healthy body, Christianity provide a healthy "workout" of the mind and soul. Setanta, part of the problem, if you forgive me for saying (and I only do because it is a common problem in the West), is you not able to say one religion is superior over the other. (Your PC flies out the window with Islam but it is still firmly intact in other areas)

When intellectuals, or others, say that Jesus was a wise man, a philosopher, but he wasn't the son of God, it is insulting. He was either telling the truth, or he was crazy. A person needs to find a religion he can live with, and stick to it. I have no problem with Buddhists, Hindus (I think; don't know anything about them), or worshippers of the Great Pumpkin, for that matter. But I cannot abide atheists. No one knows definitely there is no God. Certainly, Faith can't lead you there. Only pure arrogance.

Anyway, you agnostics out there: teach your children Christianity (I am). They'll have a stability and internal peace that will stand them in good stead for life and any future that may come later.

God bless.

Posted by: former liberal WF at November 5, 2004 11:41 AM

Sow the wind.....Reap the whirlwind....

Posted by: krkrjak at November 5, 2004 11:55 AM

Don't stop there.

Goodbye Trinity College Cambridge, and St. John's. Goodbye Christ Church, Oxford. Goodbye, bluecoats of Christ's Hospital. Goodbye Church of Christ the King, and all those Trinity Churches, and all those Christ Churches, everywhere. Goodbye, St. Andrew Undershaft, and Goodbye, St. Anne and St. Agnes, and Goodbye, St. Bartholomew the Great and St. Bartholomew the Less, and don't forget to rename St. Bartholomew's Hospital while you are at it -- some patients might be offended. Goodbye, Georgian galleries and those old pews in St. John's Church hard by Keats Grove. Goodbye, St. Nicholas in Chiswick and St. Nicholas in Deptford. Goodbye, St. Pancras, and St. Pancras Station. Goodbye Mary-le-Bow and Marylebone, and Mary-le-Strand, and St. Mary Magdalen -- yes, goodbye Marys everywhere.

Goodbye, St. Peter and St. Paul, and goodbye, St. Thomas's Hospital. Goodbye, St. Vedast, and St. Paulinus, and St. Magnus Martyr, and St. Olave's.

Goodbye, Fenchurch, and goodbye, Crutched Friars House, and All Hallows Staining, and All Hallows by the Tower, and All Hallows Teddington.

Oh, rip out the pages from the tourist guides, printer, and redraw the maps. We won't be needing that particular past -- not anymore.

Posted by: Hugh at November 5, 2004 1:29 PM

Let's not forget those South London infidels living in St Ockwell and St Reatham.

I heard on the radio that this was very unlikely to happen, and that not only C of E parents but also Jews and even Muslims were opposed to it.

But the fact that some one could even think of doing this is absurd.

Posted by: Interestd at November 5, 2004 2:15 PM

We are in a society that is politically correct to offend Christians, but not politically correct to offend the muslims. Their attitude is offend the Christians and Jews, but don't offend us muslims, or else...

Posted by: Ummagumma at November 5, 2004 3:19 PM

I must have missed the part where they also demanded full equality by getting rid of any holiday's related to non-Muslims and any infidels.
Thank God that all the Muslims can work for me on Christmas day while I get the day off for religious reasons,then Good friday as well.
After all,why should anybody benefit from a faith they have nothing to do with,I'm not getting 72 virgins so why should Muslims get
a paid-holiday for the death of my Lord that they have so much contempt for.
Oh wait,Muslims want all the free stuff from other faiths AND all the special rights they claim are in the Quran. Blacks in America fought for the right to not be segregated in the back of a bus yet Muslim are fighting to get a separate
section in the schools,in neighbourhoods,workplaces,and maybe "Muslim-only"
hospitals or buses.

Posted by: ala-sux at November 5, 2004 5:31 PM

Taking religion out of education is a positive step and a sure fire way to limit the effect of a jihad on society. I support the secularization of education. Such steps will hamper the effects of Islam on a society. Note the French have taken similar moves to protect it's self. It has also earned them the outrage of Muslims in France. To hell with silly gods that live beyond the clouds, we have to live in the real world.

Nossy

Posted by: Nostrodamus at November 6, 2004 12:00 AM

A saint's name on a school or building is just part of the history and culture of a country; Europe in particular. The only people who are offended are Muslims, wacked out communists and fascists. I hope Muslims don't start wanting their own ' MUSLIM ONLY ' ski areas, because winter is coming and I need to know where a moderate non church going christian can go find some snow.

Posted by: juicealot at November 6, 2004 5:41 AM

Juicelot 'Muslim only ski areas' - yes that would be the slippery slope.

From what I heard on the radio, Muslims weren't wanting to change the name, it was Islington Council multi-culti- do-gooders who thought it might be offensive. This is even worse in a way, pre-emptive dhimmitude.

It doesn't look as if the change will happen, but if it does, Christians must demand that Cat Stevens' Muslim School 'Islamia' change its name to Moonshadow College.

Posted by: Interestd at November 6, 2004 5:54 AM

is this p.c. gone mad or something much more sinister.
im not sure what the real motives of this are about.
i do know that the jewish community have been approached and they have voiced no objection to the word "saint" being used infact they have welcomed the use of the word.

this is a link to the guy who has decicided to take this action,i have e-mailed him to ask for an explaination but have had no response as yet.

http://www.islington.gov.uk/yourcouncil/councillor.asp?sectionid=1319&councillorid=6

i have informed him that this is now an open debate over "several" i.s.p.s & a speedy answer would be welcomed as to not cause too much inconvenience
i did notice his actual ward is "saint marys"
i wonder wheather that might be the next name to be "changed".

Posted by: kasper1062 at November 6, 2004 8:02 AM

England is suffering a plague of this crap I regret to say, and the source is in fact the professional govt. councillors who are the instigators.

There is a whole political sub-caste at work, busy monitoring all aspects of life and looking for the chance to take offence by proxy, as most of these idiots are in fact white middle-class media studies graduates who of course know more about the sensitivities of Britains ethnic minorities than the people of those groups do themselves.

These are the idiots who filled the country with re-named Mandela Streets, Roads, Drives, Houses, Buildings, Ways, Roundabouts and just about any other architectural feature they could, without the slightest sense that some of the crumbling shit-heaps they re-named would seem to most sensible people to be something of an insult to the man.

They did lose some ground in recent years however, as the English public regained a liking for their own national flag of England, the St. Georges Cross, which moved out of the football terraces and onto the streets in a big way.

Despite the continuing whining from the expected quarters that this is a racist, imperialist blah blah blah symbol, it is now hugely popular with the public, and is flown all over the place on St Georges Day, and much to the annoyance of the pc poliburo, flown by not only the white anglos but just about all the other sections of English society(though maybe not you know who), as England IS working towards recovering it's identity as a nation, distinct from the entity of the United Kingdom.

Not everything is going the way the politburo would like, nor does it have to.

Posted by: saoirse at November 6, 2004 9:28 AM

saoirse

Good post.

Have you ever spoken to British Sikhs or Hindus about their feelings about Britain, multi-culturalism and Islam?

Seek them out. What they say is absolutely fascinating.

They single handedly destroy every single argument put forward by the PC left about the "oppression" of Islam in Britain.

Hindus and Sikhs were exploited by the British empire but you do not find them trying to impose their values on the UK nor prosletyse their religion as Muslims so fanatically do.

Who are the most famous British Sikhs and Hindus in the world? Writers and filmakers like Gurinder Chadha (Bend it like Beckham) and Meera Syal (Goodness Gracious Me)

Who are the most famous British Pakistanis in the world? The ones that come to mind immediately are those two fluffy cuddly bunny rabbits that went to Israel and carried out a suicide bombing.

On the one hand, an integrated community that contributes wealth, art, music, culture to Britain and has a huge entrepeneurial streak that stands comparison with the Jewish community (look at the amount of Hindu/Sikh millionaires in The Sunday Times rich list)...and on the other...well, you know all about Pakistani Muslims.

Whilst Pakistanis are stuck in a rut of illiteracy, violence and backwardness, Hindus and Sikhs in the UK have begun to outperform white pupils in schools and universities.

The same is true of our Chinese Buddhist community.

Isnt that amazing? Despte racism and other disadvantages (like culture clash etc) they have excelled in our society which provides them so many opportunities.

We really do need to do more comparing and contrasting of the Muslim community with other religious minorities in Britain and ask why they are not rioting, intimidating people and consumed with hatred for our society. Because if you spend a little time analysing it, it blows every single argument of the Islamists and the chip-on-the-shoulder leftist supporters out of the water.

regards

Posted by: Kaffir Boy at November 6, 2004 10:09 AM

Fair Islington, home of Camden Passage, where there was a restaurant so famous that Robert Morley could be seen frequenting it (I saw him exit, quite contented, practically burping)seems to have gone off the deep end. Or is it London? Or England? Or the United Kingdom? Or Europe? Or the world?

Isn't this aking to the ever-expanding address that Stephen Dedalus supplies for himself, radiating ever outward from Clongowes Wood, at the beginning of "A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man"?

Perhaps, in 50 years, the few remaining survivors of the Jihad can write down their memories of what it was like before large Muslim populations came, and stayed, and took over. And they can borrow the beginning of "A Portrait" -- thriftily recycling words, words, words:

Once upon a time, and a very good time it was...

It is not inevitable. It can be avoided. All it takes is for enough people to recognize the obvious. That's it. And then everything that needs to be done will follow suit.

Posted by: Hugh at November 6, 2004 11:27 AM

I'm for secularism as the basis for running school that get public funding,but the Hijab issue is how Muslims get to proselitise their faith in the classroom.
France was right to ban religious headgear
to avoid a problem in the future where a majority Muslim classroom would demand all girls to wear the hijab out of respect for Islam.
You see it's not the denying of rights to Muslims that's the issue,it's imposing Islamic dress on others once they get a foothold in the schools. I've seen it already where schools with
a pool for swimming had to set up a "Female-only"
day where even lifeguards and staff had to be females and preferably Muslims.
It's Ok to correct a service that was excluding
a particular group,but giving special dispensation to a group wanting exclusive rules that create a new form of bigotry should not be allowed. Lots of people don't swim or don't swim
at indoor pools during our winters.

NO ISLAM - KNOW PEACE

Posted by: ala-sux at November 6, 2004 12:34 PM

Dear Hugh

Islington still retains some of the atmosphere of which I am sure you are aware. The wonderful Camden Market off Upper Street hosts a marvellous book market at the end of each working week where you can pick up dog eared copies of favourites and obscure novels from the nineteenth century to the present day. It is still there, the civilised repository of random writings and books being sold on temporarily arranged stalls for the perusal of the public infected with the evil and infidel attributes of peace, intellectual enquiry, tolerance and love.

Islington is close to the major conurbation of Bangladeshi Muslims in Europe. Despite London being the centre for European dhimmitude due to the socialist Mayor Ken Livingstone (even the French call it 'Londonistan') there is the beating heart of what you would call resistance in London...even the lily livered pinko liberals will realise, eventually, the threat which the Jihadis and their leftist sluts pose to the way of life of London, its plurality, tolerance and cosmopolitanism. Although I sometimes share your pessimism, I also feel that when the moment comes, even the leftist wimps, the Almeida luvvies, the Upper Street Queens will scratch, spit and rage against any fascistic creed that tries to take their freedom away.

Islington is still lovely, as is Hampstead Kensington and Notting Hill. I just wish I had been there to see the wonderful Robert Morley exit the restaurant :-)

In his absence I want you to know...England will not go down without a struggle...the Iago's of the Islamic world shall not triumph. I will make it my lifes mission to ensure that :-)

regards

Posted by: Kaffir Boy at November 6, 2004 3:48 PM

Dear Hugh

This is a possible bright spot. What we are witnessing, I feel, from my own knowledge and experience living in Britian, is an unprecedented coalition of people from all religions and races opposed to the culture of the Jihadis. This article, believe it or not, comes from The Al-Quardian:

++++

Livingstone criticised for links to fundamentalist cleric

Hugh Muir
Tuesday September 28, 2004
The Guardian

Ken Livingstone is facing a grassroots rebellion over his links to the controversial Muslim fundamentalist cleric, Yusuf al-Qaradawi.
An unprecedented coalition, encompassing Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, gays and lesbians, and the National Union of Students have demanded a meeting with the mayor to try to convince him to distance himself from Dr Qaradawi.

The cleric attended a conference at City Hall in July. They fear he may take up the mayor's invitation and return to London in the future.

++++

http://www.guardian.co.uk/guardianpolitics/story/0,,1314088,00.html

What you are witnessing here is a coalition of Anglo Saxon Christians, Agnostics, Atheists, Hindus, Jews, Sikhs, Buddhists, Gay rights groups, Feminists, Christians of all denominations, protesting against the Neo Nazi whom Livingstone invited to share a platform with him. I see here the beginning of a true Rainbow coalition, a coalition against the evil fascism that has primped and preened on the stage provided for it by Leftist idiots and British tolerance for too long.

There is life in England yet, Hugh, trust me, there is. With our Jewish Hindu Buddhist Sikh and Feminist brothers and sisters we shall keep the Jihadi Islamo Fascists under our eye. Nothing shall escape us.

best wishes

Posted by: Kaffir Boy at November 6, 2004 4:04 PM

Here's a traditional English nursery rhyme, revised so it can be read aloud at this school (whatever it's called) without offending muslim sensibilities:

Oranges and lemons
Say the bells of Khomeini
You owe me five farthings
Say the bells of Zarquawi
When will you pay me?
Say the bells of Old Bakri
When I grow rich
Say the bells of Shoreditch
When will that be?
Say the bells of Stepney
I'm sure I don't know
Says the great bell at Bow
Here comes a candle to light you to bed
Here comes a chopper to chop off your head

Chop chop chop chop the last man's head!

Posted by: Benelux at November 6, 2004 4:15 PM

Cracking good posts there guys!

The lefts strategy of desperation, that of jumping on the jihad bandwagon as a vehicle from which to spew their own brand of anti-west anti-white anti-fill in the usual isms, is encountering a little difficulty now.

Difficult to portray white anglos in Britain as the source of all societys ills and prejudices when some poor Hindu kid gets abused by muslims, pace 4 days of rioting in a small town in eastern England, when muslims went on a rampage of smashing and burning because one of their number was "not being treated with proper respect" by a member of another ehnic community, you guessed it, not a white anglo but an "asian".

Difficult to trumpet that we could all get along together once the wasps receive the correct medical treatment for the disease of racism, when a particular ethnic group (you got it, not wasps)
objects left right and centre to aspects of the native culture that no other ethnic group seems to have the slightest problem with, haven't so far heard a spokesperson from any ethnic minority other than the ROPers say that they should have their own Members of the European Parliament have you? The journalist Abigail something something Brown did, on Channel 4 news.

Still waiting for those thousands of muslims marching to protest against the recent beheadings with banners saying "not in my name", waiting, waiting.

Posted by: saoirse at November 6, 2004 7:15 PM

Sorry for the typo folks, after the "disease of racism" line it should have said (you got it, ROPers)

And sorry for half a post by mistake, it's getting late, think I'll unwind with a few blasts on the old Uilleann Pipes, and wake the neighbours up, sleep tight JWers.

Posted by: saoirse at November 6, 2004 7:24 PM

Went to Britain's 2nd largest city today for the first time in years. Birmingham has changed! Virtually no Xmas decorations anywhere, just a few ambiguous snow-flake like objects on posts or hanging in the air. A few shops had very discrete (almost invisible) Xmas trees and a poor man's ration of tinsel. No Nat King Cole or Bing Crosby piped over the Tannoy. Virtually no references to Xmas anywhere. Is this Dhimmitude on the march? Is someone trying to completely invalidate and erase Western culture? Maybe next year they'll remove ham sandwiches from the cafes and piggy banks from the gift shops.

Posted by: Born Free Stay Free at November 6, 2004 9:58 PM

post by ala -sux.

I've seen it already where schools with
a pool for swimming had to set up a "Female-only"
day where even lifeguards and staff had to be females and preferably Muslims.

yes i do wonder if the FULL cost of running such "EVENTS" are met by those passing through the doors or wheather it is the general public that ends up paying for these "people" to have a swim around?.
i have an interesting "fatwa" on the subject of swimming pools and "non-muslim" life guards.
i notice it is titled "manners" the sooner they get some the better!

http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=99709

Posted by: kasper1062 at November 7, 2004 5:06 AM

Kaffir boy: very interesting and encouraging posts. Getting the Hindus, Sikhs and Feminists involved really snookers the Left.

Restaurant in Camden Passage? Could this be Lola's. Been there, once saw Piers Morgan pissed as a newt!

Posted by: Interestd at November 7, 2004 7:39 PM