And those people are muslims of course.

But isn't it OUR festive period, not theirs?

How soon do you think that Christmas itself will be banned in Britain?

Posted by: Voltaire at November 9, 2004 8:33 AM

Maybe then with culturally insensitive Santa Claus out of the way they will be introduce Osama Claus. Osama Claus will be much more acceptbale to a islamic...oh...I meant multicultural society.

Kid: "Osama Claus. I want a x-box and world peace for christmas"

Osmama CLaus: "No you don't you kaffir scum. You want to blow your appartment building up. Here is some plastique and a ak-47."

Posted by: obl r us at November 9, 2004 8:42 AM

" "We wish to be sensitive to people of other religions over the festive period."

But why only now after 9/11?
For all those decades "other religions" were not "humiliated" and even joined in British culture and tradition.

I suppose by the same token the mural
"Thou Shalt Not Kill"
that was scrapped by Dutch police in Rotterdam was insensitive to the feelings of "people of other religions" as well?

Posted by: Cynic at November 9, 2004 8:44 AM

Who the hell are they to assume that our traditions will "Offend" anyone?

What's the big deal about being offended anyway? Is it the worse thing in the world to be the victim of a perceived "offence", which in most cases is in the mind of the offended no the offender?

This emphasis on sensitivity and cultural eggshells is the cost of living in a "multicultural" society. The newcomers are unjustly being allowed to slowly modify our Western nations.

In most cases the immigrants are not offended at all, they become sensitized to racial, multicultural sentiments by our feckless pandering to their perceived needs.

Now that the word is out that we in the croaking West consider our civilization disposable, immigrants of course are rushing in to fill the vacuum. In the case of Islam, they are the most aggressive at promoting their culture and will rise to the top culturally in the West if we don’t reject liberalism first, and then multiculturism.

Posted by: Andrew at November 9, 2004 9:04 AM

Let`s see now, we take Santa Claus away from the shopping center so that we can be sensitive to other religions; never mind that there are Christain children that look forward to talking to Santa as I did when I was a child; never mind that Saint Nicholas reminds those of us who are Christians of the gift of giving. And of course never mind that you just became insensitive to all the Christain children that live there.

Posted by: Mackie at November 9, 2004 9:09 AM

This is a prime example of the ignorance and unwillingness to tolerate other faiths the Muslims are guilty of. What a joke......

Dear ignorant Islamic jerkoffs: Santa Claus has absolutely nothing to do with Christianity. Like the Easter Bunny, he is a novelty. Like Cupid on Valentine's day, he doesn't exist.

Muslims, if any of you are watching and having someone read this to you, get a grip on reality before it kills you.....Dumb ass bigots....

Posted by: DCWatson at November 9, 2004 9:10 AM

Santa at Christmas?? Good heavens, what's the world coming to!!

One thing I don't get about all these "sensitive" people is... Santa's been up there in all the previous years, and yet there was no outcry or outrage about it... Strange for something that should be so "offensive". Fucking idiots.

Posted by: AntiJihadist at November 9, 2004 9:27 AM

Like Santa has anything to do with the christian way of celebrating christmas.

I though it was about the birth of Jezus?
Santa is for everybody... and not religous (never saw a crucifix around his nek?).

The islam has to stop playing the poor victim.

Posted by: Draven at November 9, 2004 9:44 AM

Decades ago D. J. Enright, who for many years taught in the Far East, reported in an article in "Encounter" that in Japan (this was probably in the 1960s) a department store window included a "crucified Santa." That is the only example of connecting Santa Claus so closely to religious observance in recent years.

Whatever Santa Claus's origiins in St. Nicholas, he has in recent decades,lost his religious significance and is more akin to the Russian "Ded Moroz." It was precisely this that underlay the decision in a famous establishment Clause case, Lynch v. Donnelly, in which the Court upheld the appearance of a creche on publicly-owned land because it had been diluted, or perhaps leached, of its religious significance given the circumjacent reindeer and Santa Claus.

The statement by the store owners that Santa Claus might give offense to "non-Christians" is non-sense. It will give no offense to Hindus, Buddhists, Jews. This is akin to the French banning the hijab, but along with the hijab, banning the completely inoffensive Sikh turbans and Jewish kippahs -- all in the name of a phony equal-opportunity offensiveness that is supposed to disguise reality. The entire Western world, it seems, is trying to disguise reality from itself. Why?

Here is an idea. Boycott the damn store. Don't go. Don't go to any store, don't take your custom to anyone, whom you believe is willing to play this game -- and hence, in the end, is part of a movement that will make your life more expensive, unpleasant, and dangerous. Don't go to restaurants, whether Muslim-owned or not, that have the word "Halal Food" outside. Don't buy rugs, no matter how appealing, if the owner of the store is someone who attends a mosque, contributes to a Muslim charity (i.e. for Muslims). Economic boycotts need not be announced. They can be silent affairs, a reflection of individuals each making a choice. We have, at the moment, no choice but to use oil -- that is by far the most important thing to change. But until then, these little acts, one by one by one, can help create an environment that is less, rather than more, welcoming of those who, directly or indirectly, contribute to at least one of the instruments of Jihad -- demographic conquest from within, and Da'wa. Why collaborate in the demise of your own civilisation? Isn't watching "Access Hollywood" bad enough?

Posted by: Hugh at November 9, 2004 9:46 AM

DCWatson,

"This is a prime example of the ignorance and unwillingness to tolerate other faiths the Muslims are guilty of."

Not true in this instance. These are not Muslims wishing to ban Santa, these are the bosses of the shopping centre, those enlightened people who think they know what's best for the "oppressed" minorities better than those minorities themselves. I have NEVER heard a Muslim here "moan" about Christmas being celebrated. This is exclusively the work of our own dear PC lobby.

Posted by: AntiJihadist at November 9, 2004 9:50 AM

They say life imitates art. Some years ago, Yes Prime Minister did a show about seeking a replacement for the Archbishop of Canterbury. One of the candidates was a convert to Islam and he was seen as a likely choice because at least he believed in God, where another candidate was an avowed aethiest.

They say the harder the [political] pendulum swings one way, the harder it swings back the other way. Looks like the Dutch are getting extremely fed up. We'll have so see if the land of Coronation Street is ready to say enough is enough without someone getting assassinated first.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at November 9, 2004 10:03 AM

UPDATE.......

ARAFISH NOT DEAD....AGAIN!!!!!!

PLO Claims new Messiah, Jesus Arafish....stay tuned.

DEPPER THAN DEEPEST COMA IN MEDICAL HISTORY

Liberals say "depends what the meaning of dead is...".

http://www.drudgereport.com/

Posted by: Andrew at November 9, 2004 10:10 AM

HISTORY OF SANTA CLAUSS

St. Nicholas was born in 271 AD and died around December 6, 342 or 343 AD near the Asia Minor (Turkey) town of Myra,. where he later became Bishop. He performed many good deeds and was a friend to the poor and helpless, and upon his death, myths soon sprang up about him all around the Mediterranean Sea. He was reputed to be able to calm the raging seas, rescue desperate sailors, help the poor and downtrodden, and save children. He was soon named as the patron saint of sailors, and when Myra was overthrown, his bones were transported by sailors to Bari, a port in Italy, where a tomb was built over the grave and became the center of honor for St. Nicholas. From here the legend spread on around to the Atlantic Coast of Europe and the North Sea to become a European holiday tradition regardless of religion.

It is interesting to note that the children of the Netherlands believe Santa Claus arrives on a steamboat from Spain in early December, and that most European Countries do not celebrate Santa Claus in conjunction with Christmas (The Birth of Christ) but only as the Patron Saint of giving.

Posted by: Mackie at November 9, 2004 10:18 AM

These are not Muslims wishing to ban Santa, these are the bosses of the shopping centre, those enlightened people who think they know what's best for the "oppressed" minorities better than those minorities themselves.
Posted by: AntiJihadist

With all due respect, the bosses of the shopping centre are inclined to make blinded moves like this because of.............whining Muslims.

They whine when Islam is even slightly criticized, they demand that statues of pigs, although historically symbolic to a nation that the Muslims have migrated to, are removed from public squares because the pig offends them.

They throw fits and demand that shields representing the Spanish Inquisition, another historical event, are removed.

They're the most easily offended band of racists on earth, especially when it benefits them. I know of no other minority doing any bitching about Santa.....It's the Muslims, as usual.

They've even made claims that Columbus had an Arab navigator during his voyage that landed him in America in an effort to claim part of American history.....Which too has been proven to be another in a long line of false claims.

They want to change history because to date, their culture has failed.

Posted by: DCWatson at November 9, 2004 10:24 AM

Antijihadist is right - this is the PC crowd rather than the Muslims, as is the controversy about hot crossed buns, saints' names for schools, and the statue of a pig in a park somewhere.

In some ways though, this is worse - it is pre-emptive dhimmitude.

Santa (Father Christmas in the UK) is not much to do with Christianity anyway. Of course Santa is an anagram of Satan....

Posted by: Interestd at November 9, 2004 10:29 AM

It is not just one shopping centre:

SANTA will also be missing from these shopping centres: Brent Cross, North London; Buchanan Galleries, Glasgow; Swansgate Centre, Wellingborough, Northants; Clayton Square, Liverpool; Prospect Centre, Bradford; Whitgift Centre, Croydon; Oracle Centre, Reading, Berks; Merry Hill Centre, Dudley, West Midlands.

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at November 9, 2004 10:29 AM

Here's the opposite side of the coin.

Yesterday I went to visit a friend in London. While waiting at a bus stop in Acton High Street I noticed the prominent name sign above the large supermarket-grocery store-halal butcher opposite. The name is ALL 2 ONE.

Here's the interesting part: The 'O' in ONE on the sign takes the shape of a large globe of the world into which are crowded the 'western' continents - North America, South America, Australia and Europe. Encompassing the western world is a broad green arrow which snakes across the world and points towards Mecca.

The message couldn't be clearer. These continents - and all the countries and peoples that inhabit them - must be brought into the fold of the One religion.

How many non-muslims who see this sign would be aware that this it is anything but the name of a grocery store? Yet any muslim seeing it would instantly 'get' its triumphalist message and might well be amused at seeing it so blatantly expressed right there above the heads of the unsuspecting kaffirs.

Can you imagine what the response would be if anyone 'in the know' approached the local council and complained that the name sign above a store contained a hidden propaganda message promoting an intolerant political ideology?

They'd probably try to keep you talking until the men in white showed up with a big net.

But ask them to ban an 'offensive' Santa Claus from the high street - ah, well now, that's a different story.

Posted by: Benelux at November 9, 2004 10:33 AM

I'd like to add that Christmas, at least in the States, is largely a holiday for and about children. Taking Santa away is like taking candy away from a baby. God forbid children should have any fun - must we reduce life to some gray, homogenous milieu that appeals to no one?
If multi-culturalism is about inclusiveness, then people need to tolerate, not seek to obliterate, other people's customs and symbols. As we see so often here, many people, particularly those in authority, cannot differentiate between dhimmitude and multi-culturalism.
Now is the time to stop bowing to the tyranny of the minority.

Posted by: Mike at November 9, 2004 10:39 AM

It's also worth mentioning that it was the Dutch who brought 'Sinter Klaas' to the US via New Amsterdam/York.

And look what's happening to the Dutch now.

Maybe The Sun should start a 'Save Santa' campaign...

Posted by: Benelux at November 9, 2004 10:56 AM

I'll bet that the store in question doesn't worry about Christian MONEY being offensive. Christmas is usually when the lion's share of income is taken in for the entire year. Like Hugh said -boycott- !

Posted by: Carolyn2 at November 9, 2004 10:57 AM

These malls should be boycotted, their retail numbers around the holidays are their lifeblood

Posted by: DCWatson at November 9, 2004 10:59 AM

Last year in my City the evergreen tree that has always been part to the festval of lights during the Christmas season,was declared by some yahoo via a memo to be refered to as the "Winter" tree and now longer a Christmas tree.
The Mayor hit the roof and said as long as he's alive and the mayor it will be a Christmas tree,sadly we have a new Leftist Mayor that love to cater to special interests groups,this I fear will 86 the tree and create more work for the anti-racism department that always look for a reason to demand a increase in their funding.

Also,can I assume Muslims will report for work on Dec 25th since their principles forbid them to accept the paid day-off,oh wait,they want to kill all things unIslamic but get all the freebee's
from nonMuslim traditions.
Lets have people declare their faith at work and each group gets only their holidays off and must work on all others days so others can get their time off.

Posted by: ala-sux at November 9, 2004 11:07 AM

I think it might also be sex envy by Muslim
male that have to wait until they get to be with Allah and the virgins,Santa may be fat and old but at least he comes once a year which is more than Osama and Hooper from CAIR.

KNOW ISLAM - NO FUN

Posted by: ala-sux at November 9, 2004 11:11 AM

I'm going to go out on a limb here and risk sounding like an anarchist/anti-capitalist.

Many of you cite the "P.C. crowd" as the instigators of this move. You're partly right.
However, the PC discourse with its calls to equality and diversity and multiculturalism and social harmony is the window dressing behind which HIDE various corporate interests. Miltinational/multicultural. By banning poor Santa they're attempting to cut the widest swath possible in oder to maximize profits.

Last christmas here in Montréal many of the 'big box stores' such as The Gap overtly instructed their clerks to say "happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas", and, as you might expect, their reasoning took the line of "be careful not to offend". But if you translate the exhortation "don't offend", place it in context, you'll be suroprised to learn that it really means "maiximize profits".

The British public are no longer consumers; they have become the consummed and the quest for the best bottom line is what's driving it. PC discourse is merely the ideological tool used to this end.

Recently there was a move in California to give drivers permits to illegal aliens. At one famous American website commentators immediately invoked "The Berkely Moonbats" as the instigators. Turns out it was an intiative of The California Produce Growers Association.

Let's face it, worker mobility is paramount to profits. How on earth will the illegals pick the lettuce if they can't even get out into the fields? And, as you might well expect, many who opposed the move were labelled bigots and racists

Cute, eh?

I'm very pro free enterprise; however, I realise that when it comes to culture and capitalism they are points of convergence........and points of divergence.

This year, Santa is the fork in the road.

Posted by: John Palubiski at November 9, 2004 11:29 AM

BOYCOTT the shopping center! If they don't want to celebrate Christmas, don't give them your Christmas dollars!

MONEY TALKS, BULLSH*T WALKS!

Posted by: 3812Michelle at November 9, 2004 11:49 AM

I sense the ol' frying pan is slowly heating up over there and sure as hell them frogs ain't figgerd whats for dinner yet. And they want to call US ignorant bumpkins. As I like to say "Just because you're paranoid don't mean them bastards ain't plottin' against you".

Posted by: thirdfinger at November 9, 2004 11:52 AM

It is interesting to note that Saint Nicholas was born in Myra,Turkey and spent most of his entire life there. Even though Turkey is nearly 99 Pct Muslim, And Saint Nicholas is recognized as a Christian celebration.

The City of Myra on the Mediteranean Coast celebrates him every year and there are statues and churches that revere this patron Saint of giving. The Islamic country of Turkey appears to have no problem with Santa Claus and yet a country that is predominatly Christain does.
GO FIGURE!

Posted by: Mackie at November 9, 2004 12:03 PM

Regarding the above comments to boycott. I would suggest sending a simple letter to the tenants of the shopping centre (i.e. the stores) where you would normally shop that you will no longer frequent the centre due to the absence of Santa and that fact you no longer feel welcome. Nothing gets the attention of a shopping centre manager faster than an irate tenant.

Posted by: johnb at November 9, 2004 12:17 PM

For what it's worth, I think Canada has, at least partly, progressed beyond this political correctness. One of the key events happened a couple of years ago in Toronto when the traditional Christmas tree in front of city hall was renamed a "holiday tree" by a faceless bureaucrat. There was a huge uproar led by the Jewish mayor who proclaimed it was a Christmas tree, had always been a Christmas tree and would always be a Christmas tree. The bureaucrat scuttled back to his/her office not to be heard from again.

Posted by: johnb at November 9, 2004 12:22 PM

Remember last year there was talk of banning hot cross" buns to school children in the UK?

I don't know if the pc crowd has succeeded in totally removing them from schools, but the idea was to ban a UK tradition in the interests of not offending immigrants.

Something is seriously wrong here. Is Europe sovereign, or is it cow towing to their Arab Muslim masters who are threatening to turn off the oil spigot?

http://portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/03/16/nbuns16.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/03/16/ixhome.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=213790

Posted by: Andrew at November 9, 2004 12:32 PM

Note that the councils wishing to ban hot cross buns and remove the word 'saint' from church schools were both run by the Liberal Democrats.

They should be made aware that such intrusive PC policies are guaranteed vote losers.

Posted by: Benelux at November 9, 2004 12:46 PM

One thing that shouldn't be overlooked, (and this is not an excuse) given it's England -- very possible the mall owners either had a lot of Muslim tenant businesses giving them grief, or that there's an "anchor tenant" (big store)owned by Muslims behind this. There's a lot of middle eastern money in Britain.

But yes, I wouldn't be a tad surprised if business suffered significantly in the malls that give into this extortion.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at November 9, 2004 1:03 PM

Let them ban Father Christmas from the Muslim owned Harrods first.

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at November 9, 2004 1:51 PM

Well now, I strongly suspect that should the christians boycott said shopping center the management just might get the message that picking on Santa was not a very good idea.

Posted by: krkrjak at November 9, 2004 3:12 PM

On second thought, the guys who own Harrods are probably savvy enough to know just how much Christmas drives retail sales.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at November 9, 2004 3:22 PM

These malls all deserve to have a record low sales report at the end of the holiday season.

Then they can all be too poor to eat, and have their own post holiday Ramadan.....

Posted by: DCWatson at November 9, 2004 3:46 PM

ala-sux posts: KNOW ISLAM - NO FUN

LOL! C'mon, Islamic holidays ROCK!
Forget the turkey and the fruitcake this year - I'm starving myself for a month and bitching at all of you for insolently not submitting to my deprivation.
Screw you fat and happy kafir harbi!

Posted by: Rottweiller at November 9, 2004 4:04 PM

That goes for YOU, too, Santa Claus!

Posted by: Rottweiller at November 9, 2004 4:08 PM

Money does indeed talk. Extend the boycott to include Anti-Americanism in any form, from t.v. programs, to Hollywood films, or to the works of those "artisits" and writers, newspapers, and so on, that exhibit Anti-American tendencies, to the soap manufacturers that sponser them. Here in America we understand the power of money and the boycott, but few have the guts to employ it!

Posted by: epg at November 9, 2004 4:20 PM

Heh..fat santa claus. I'm sorry, I've been wanting to say this for awhile now. Doesn't anyone realize that Abu Hamza kind of looks like fat santa? I mean, he's got the beard, the belly, and, speaking of that hook, how does he go to the bathroom? Does he have hands on both his hands?

Ahh..I guess I shouldn't laugh, There's really nothing so amusing about someone who could eclipse the sun because of their size. Every living thing on the planet would eventually become extinct. How will we eat? How will plants grow? Every tree and plant will die!

And here's a little-known fact: in the movie "Deep Impact", Star Jones played the difficult part of the Doomsday asteroid. She reportedly dropped 30 pounds to make her portrayal more realistic. lol

Or, maybe he tries to cover it up:
As homer simpson said: "I'm not fat, it's glandular"

I'm sorry, I should lay off of the fat jokes. Seriously, IS ISLAM INTRINSICALLY EVIL? This is a topic of discussion at The best and worst.com:

http://www.bestandworst.com/pages/vote/vote-49990.html

I think it will be interesting if you vote: I put up another one: IS ISLAM A RELIGION OF CONQUEST?
http://www.bestandworst.com/pages/vote/vote-57762.html

You have to register first to vote, I just think it will be interesting.

Posted by: illyria at November 9, 2004 4:49 PM

Ok, i've just read the article and most of the comments here. At the moment, I live in London. I lived in Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Dubai. IN ALL 3 COUNTRIES I DRESSED UP AS SANTA for children and nobody arrested me, NOBODY told me, or the schools that it would offend anyone.

I know exactly what I'm doing. I'm buying some sweets, dressing up in a Santa's costume and I'm going to Birmingham for the weekend.

I know that there are alot of frustrated souls who read these articles, and I am one of them.

Posted by: Eighteen 21 at November 9, 2004 7:11 PM

But they allowed the celebrations for the start of Ramadan!

How could they be so bigotted against our own traditions???

Posted by: Nannette at November 9, 2004 7:54 PM

I thought that the spirit of multiculturalism was the inclusion of all cultures, not the exclusion of some cultures to facilitate the inclusion of other cultures.

Posted by: Dilophos at November 9, 2004 7:56 PM

Dilophos, you said:

"I thought that the spirit of multiculturalism was the inclusion of all cultures, not the exclusion of some cultures to facilitate the inclusion of other cultures."

Multiculturalism says that all cultures are equal, BUT some cultures are more equal than others. Atleast that is what the dictator pigs in "Animal Farm" would say. It is a pity then that most multiculturalists have power mad pigs for inspiration/role models. OINK OINK!!!!

Posted by: obl r us at November 9, 2004 8:26 PM

BOYCOT THE STORES!!!!!

Posted by: adela at November 10, 2004 12:28 AM

It's time for Santa to start putting on those boxing gloves and fight for his right to be with children.

Posted by: Voltaire at November 10, 2004 1:14 AM

Boycott. Boycott. Boycott. Send letters. Send e-mails. Make them see their profits flow down the drain.

Posted by: former liberal WF at November 10, 2004 1:59 PM

Re Boycott, there is already something going on like this in America...

http://www.family.org/cforum/citizenmag/webonly/a0033730.cfm

Posted by: AntiJihadist at November 12, 2004 8:35 AM

Also check http://savemerrychristmas.org/

Posted by: AntiJihadist at November 12, 2004 8:37 AM

I'm so glad its not just me who thinks its crazy, the poor little kids who wont understand why they can't go see santa? i'm about to have my first child and really want to be able to take my kid to go see santa?!?
everyone should grow up a bit and see its just for the little ones if you dont believe in it then dont take your kids to see him.

Posted by: daisy at November 13, 2004 1:21 PM