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Now I am waiting for a Denver mosque to hire a priest. And waiting, and waiting...the problem with these efforts to "reach out" is that they are almost entirely one-sided. Islamic theology regards Judaism and Christianity as they exist today as corrupted versions of Islam. That idea does not allow imams to deal with Jewish and Christian leaders as equal partners in any dialogue. Maybe this man is sincere, but what all too often passes for dialogue on the Muslim side is really just Islamic apologetics. Will things be different in Denver?
From the Denver Post, with thanks to Ali Dashti:
Then, presuming everything goes as planned, a new chapter in interfaith relations will be written: A Muslim imam will join the staff of a Christian church, a first in Denver and perhaps nationally.Ibrahim Kazerooni, a Shiite cleric, will direct the church's fledgling Abrahamic Initiative, a bridge-building effort among Christians, Jews and Muslims. He will continue to head the Islamic Center of Ahl Al-Beit in west Denver.
"I really don't feel out of place here," said Kazerooni, an Iraq native who has proved to be an articulate voice for his faith since coming to Denver four years ago. "Whether it is a church, a synagogue or a mosque, it's just the medium. The message is the work we do."
Kazerooni won't be paid a salary for serving as interim director of the Abrahamic Initiative, a program founded in the spring of 2001 and named for the biblical figure linking the three faiths. Instead, the church will cover a year's tuition at Iliff School of Theology, where Kazerooni is pursuing a master's in theology.
The initiative seeks to find the common ground of the three monotheistic faiths through public lectures and dialogues in private homes where people from each faith break bread and share stories.
"Our society is polarized," said Greg Movesian, the cathedral canon and chairman of the initiative's steering committee. "We want to get beyond that polarization. We hope this appeals to people who don't look upon people of other religions as a target for conversion but rather potential partners in maintaining a civil society."
"It's a breakthrough," he said of hiring Kazerooni, who previously took part in the program. "I don't know if there is any other church in the country that has an imam on its staff."
The 46-year-old Kazerooni steps into the job at a volatile time: The ghosts of 9/11, the Iraq war, the Israel-Palestinian conflict and disagreement over Yasser Arafat's legacy are rubbing longtime fault lines among Christians, Jews and Muslims.
Kazerooni said those issues aren't to be avoided but addressed in good time. The first step is nothing more complicated than getting people together, he said.
"You need to establish trust," he said. "Then the narrative of hatred will not be there, and at the end of the day, we can discuss a number of issues that are extremely critical but without that distrust."
At the same time, Kazerooni risks backlash by taking a job in a church. Some Muslims on the far right, for instance, shun interaction with the broader society and view interfaith work as a compromise.
"I've experienced a lot in life, and I have grown to have a thick skin," said Kazerooni, who was jailed and tortured in Saddam Hussein's Iraq, accused of spying for Iran. "What I care first and foremost about is whether I can be instrumental in doing something good. Whether my community understands it or not at this stage is irrelevant.
"I'm hoping one day they will understand if they see the result of action and change their mind."
Posted by Robert at November 11, 2004 7:29 AM
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I give up. I feel as if I am living in an invasion of the body snatchers movie.
Posted by: Andrew![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at November 11, 2004 7:44 AM
The last line says it all. He's just performing da'wa and helping to infiltrate American society and institutions in a different way, and one day the ummah will recognize it.
Posted by: CGW at November 11, 2004 9:10 AM
One thing that wasn't mentioned here but is prominent in the Denver Post article is the church that's dhimmifying themselves - "Denver's historic St. John's Episcopal Cathedral".
My first thought on this was "WTF?", just sheer disbelief that a church could be so foolish as to allow Islam a foothold, but it makes perfect sense with it being that particular denomination. The theology in many sections of the Espiscopalian Church is so watered down that there's no understanding of basic Biblical principles, let alone understanding what kind of poisonous snake they've just invited in.
at November 11, 2004 9:47 AM
Ibrahim Kazerooni, a Shiite cleric, will direct the church's fledgling Abrahamic Initiative, a bridge-building effort among Christians, Jews and Muslims. He will continue to head the Islamic Center of Ahl Al-Beit in west Denver.
I wonder if these adherents to the Abrahamic tradition have a problem with "Thou shall not kill" like they do in Amsterdam?
BTW, will Mr. Kazerooni explain that a stand-in Jesus got crucified during one of his da'wa sessions?
at November 11, 2004 10:05 AM
Is this an Episcopalian churchg? Arn't they the ones in America who caused a schism to erupt over their ordination of an openly gay and practicing Bishop?
An imam is the least of their problems.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F1091EFC3A5E0C728EDDA90994DC404482
at November 11, 2004 10:27 AM
"Abrahamic Initiative" sermons will no doubt soon be offered every Friday at noon at Denver's historic St. John's Episcopal Masjid. Of course they will have to remove or cover up any of the Christian symbols so as not to offend their Muslim co-congregationists.
If this sounds absurd, think again. There is ample historic precedent, the most notable being Hagia Sophia, which until its conversion to the imperial Ottoman mosque upon the capture of Constantinople by the Muslim horde in 1453 was the Cathedral of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople for more than one thousand years.
Posted by: Hulegu Khan at November 11, 2004 10:43 AM
I hope the donations dwindle to nothing before this Church is conformed into an armory....I mean mosk. Better to close it down than to surrender it to Muslims.......
Posted by: DCWatson at November 11, 2004 10:54 AM
This article is particularly frightening. About three months after the start of the war in Iraq I went to a meeting where this man was the speaker. His tone, and words were anything but appreciative. Someone asked him what he thought the best thing we could do for Iraq and his answer was “Get out”. You could have cut the air in the room with a knife.
There is a Saudi funded mosque in Denver. Here is a Denver Post article interviewing clerics at another mosque after Beslan. http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~2395979,00.html
Denver also experienced its first damage to a synagogue this year.
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~2001565,00.html
We have recently seen our first full tilt burka being escorted by a heavily bearded man in the grocery store. This would give you pause in Denver.
One of the largest service clubs in Denver was recently visited by a man who spoke about the glories of doing business in Saudi Arabia and how safe it is.
Last spring while attending a class on a local university campus I, and those walking in front of me, were pushed off a sidewalk by three attendees of a Middle East studies seminar walking abreast. After reading Bat Ye’or’s books I realized that what I thought was rude at the time actually qualified me as dhimmi.
Voters in six Colorado districts voted at a local mosque. This is a new polling place and the county was invited by a representative of the mosque to use the building. When the county went to inspect the space the welcoming attitude was quite different from the peace joy and love the original caller exuded. The county clerk chalked it up to Muslim men have different attitudes about women. The local sheriff said he would post extra guards. Everyone decided it was good to reach out.
Here is how one of the Denver Newspapers chose to portray the death of Theo Van Gogh. One of my neighbors interpreted the article as saying the morals were too loose in Amsterdam.
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~11676~2522325,00.html
Two weeks ago the newspaper reported the murder of a young woman – her hands cut off. There has been no news or details since.
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~2491738,00.html
I would say things are really rolling in Denver and it the perfect place. Nobody is going to say a word.
at November 11, 2004 11:15 AM
Well then,tell me what will happen when the Islamists take family members hostage and force him to be a suicide bomber by wearing a c4 belt into the Church.
Do you really think these gutless Muslims would give a damn about stopping the slaughter of infidels,the Militant wing of Islam will no doubt see the Imam as a enemy of Allah for befriending the people of the book(Jews and Christians).
The Church is now a valid target for Islamists to bomb in part of their Islamic Jihad to make the uSA an Islamic State that CAIR is fighting for.
ISLAM MUST GOGH
Posted by: ala-sux at November 11, 2004 12:24 PM
Everybody, keep in mind that this is an Episcopal cathedral doing this. The Episcopal Church has long since thrown the fundamentals of Christian doctrine overboard for an infatuation with social respectability and intellectual fashion, culiminating with its current addiction to political correctness, "multiculturalism" and "diversity."
This is not surprising. As a Catholic, I'm only surprised that the Catholic Church didn't think of it first.
Posted by: Joseph D'Hippolito at November 11, 2004 12:42 PM
Jane,
Thank you for relaying your experiences. I think that many on this board and others, can detail similar experiences that are indeed bone-chilling.
I cannot access the first Denver Post story about the muslim cleric interview after Beslan.
I would like to see it...do you have a way to post the article?
Posted by: jawa at November 11, 2004 12:50 PM
Jane,
Interesting links and comments, but I fail to understand why you would link to a murder where the victims had her hands cut off.
Do you believe this to be related to Islam?
Maybe, her hands were removed to thwart the police's investigation into her indentity?
Posted by: Moe's Foe at November 11, 2004 1:13 PM
I am sorry, I didn't check the link before posting. I am surprised, then not, that it isn't working. I do know it was working approximately two weeks ago. I did not save the hard copy, only the link. The article was potent enough that friends of ours who thought we were crazy worrying that Islam may not be so peaceful, called after the article was printed and said they decided that we may not be wrong. I do remember the name of the writer of the article and I will email it. I remember because at the time I was so pleased to see the newspaper trying to ask the questions I would like answered and this particular staff writer has a track record of sound reporting.
Posted by: jane at November 11, 2004 1:15 PM
This church has invited satan into the sanctuary. It really isn't so surprising, a lot of the products of seminaries do not even believe in G-d anymore. They get into the ministry as a job, how sad.
Posted by: Carolyn2 at November 11, 2004 2:10 PM
The silliness in many christians and jews is great about islam, is a pity that learn the truth is so bloody, greetings
Posted by: Franze at November 11, 2004 3:41 PM
Totally amazing! Let's all hold hands and sing Kumbaya, vowing "to get along, while the Imam preaches Jihad theology and teaches the congregation how to be good dhimmis.
First the hall Halls of Congress, then the universities, the textbooks and schools, and local outreach programs (but they won't join ours), and now the churches!
Viral-stupidity has taken over.
Posted by: epg at November 11, 2004 4:05 PM
I just checked the website of Christian Century and there is a nice long article on Muslim-Christian interfaith book readings. The idea is we can read each other's Book and learn to respect each other. Barf.
Posted by: former liberal WF at November 11, 2004 4:15 PM
You would think that seemingly intelligent people would study Islam just the smallest bit before allowing it to be presented to their congregation. Just READ the Koran! Just spend a few minutes in research. There is NO WAY that allah is G-d.
Jesus said to " Love one another as I have loved you"
Muhammed said to "Kill, kill, kill"
The scripture says the enemy of our souls comes to steal, kill and destroy.... who does that sound like?
at November 11, 2004 4:43 PM
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Behold, I have told you before.
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold he is in the DESERT; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers, believe it not.
at November 11, 2004 4:55 PM
I live 25 miles north of Denver, I do not want these people in my state. Kazerooni should be deported immediately, I do not trust his kind at all.
Posted by: abad at November 11, 2004 6:19 PM
Do the Episcopalians celebrate communion at their Sunday service? If so, is it grape juice or wine? I'm just wondering what the good imam will do if there's wine in the building.
Posted by: 3812Michelle at November 11, 2004 7:33 PM
My husband is an Episcopal priest and the only Canon to the Persecuted Christians in the USA. Still, I am amazed at the focus, or lack thereof, of St. John's Cathedral. Iraqi Christians are fleeing Iraq by the thousands. It is open season on them, from Iraqi Muslims of all stripes, the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurdish Muslims. Their churches are being bombed, the men are being murdered,their women raped and children kidnapped. Of course, these Christians are from churches which far predate Islam in Iraq. Members of smaller sects,which also predate Islam, the Mandaeans, the Zorastians and the Yadzis are suffering similar terrors from their newly liberated Muslim neighbors. Could the good people of the Cathedral find it in their hearts and pocketbooks to help their fellow Christians in Iraq escape from the Islamic hell that they are now living in throughout all parts of the country. This situation would be an excellent seminar for the Abrahamic Project....hmmm...I wonder how the good imman would explain the slaughter of Christians to his new employers and the parishioners? I am sure that he would come up with some Islamic excuse, with lots of words like peace, tolerance and brotherhood thrown in for gullible Christian consumption.
at November 11, 2004 8:16 PM
And just when I was beginning to think things couldn't get any damn nuttier. God help us all.
Posted by: krkrjak at November 11, 2004 9:03 PM
Here is a preview of Friday sermons that will soon be delivered at Denver's historic St. John's Episcopal Masjid. And a true classic.
Posted by: Hulegu Khan at November 11, 2004 10:15 PM
The "Abrahamic Initiative"? Ah, yes. Will the "Abrahamic Initiative" explain the murder of 400 schoolchildren, and teachers, in Beslan, theatregorwers in Moscow, a truth-teller in Amsterdam, Buddhist monks in southern Thailand, the mass killing of Hindus Bangladesh, the persecution and killin of Christians, Hindus, Sikhs in Pakistan, the killing of Christian villagers in the southern Philippines, the genocidal killings of Christians, animists, and non-Arab (and therefore inferior) Muslims of Darfur, the imposition of Sharia in northern Nigeria, the persecution of Copts in Egypt and Maronites in Lebanon and Assyrians in Iraq, the Islamic cells cells discoveed in Portland, Oregon and Lackawanna, New York and in Detroit, Michigan and Falls Church, Virginia and Ohio and Texas and Florida, the destruction of the Jewish Center in Buenos Aires,the Muslim bombing of cafes in Capetown, the Muslim northerners attempting to take more and more of formerly Christian Ivory Coast, the Jihad -- in Col. Ojukwu's words in the Ohiara Declaration -- against the Christian Ibo that led to the Biafran war for independence, the thwarted attacks on the water supply in Milan, on the Vatican, on the Christams market in Strasbourg, on a thousand or ten thousand other targets.
What will that "Abrahamic Inititative" be if not a course in the most obvious apologetics, finding a connection when there is none -- or rather, the "connection" is the appropriation, by Islam, of all the main figures in Judaism and Christianity, including that of "Abraham." As well as that the "Western tradition" includes both parliamentary democracy and fascism -- yes, but though both are "part" of some tradition, they are mortal enemies. The entire thrust of this farce is to make the innocent, or perhaps the not so innocent, members of this Congregation into tools of Muslm apologetics, victims who pay for the furtherance of their own bland acceptance of an intolerable encroachment and threat on their own wellbeing, if only they understood, minimally, what the belief-system of Islam is all about.
They might start, not with hirign a plausible apologist -- and the more smiling, the more sincere those deepset brown-eyes, the softer the voice, the more convincing he will be -- and thus the more dangerous -- simply by learning what Muhammad did in his life (Aisha, Bani Qurayza, the Khaybar oasis would be a place to start -- the mass killing of prisoners and the ordered assassination of "enemies" including 90-year-olds, can be dealt with later), to learn about the hadith and reading a few hundred of them at www.usc.edu, and then reading, with the appropriate notes and commentary, of the Qur'an (in many different translations, also at www.usc.edu).
Finally, why should not the more aware and informed and intelligent members of this congregation make it a point to thoroughly inform themselves about all the legal, political, and social disabilities -- not merely the jizyah -- uwhich, for 1300 years, all non-Muslims had to endure, unless they were killed or converted outright.
Great thanks to Jane for her excellent and detailed posting -- a model of the kind of specific information that can be collected and reported here and elsewhere.
Posted by: Hugh at November 12, 2004 8:24 AM
It puts you in mind of the old "Not The Nine O'clock News" sketch(early 80's) about "modern Christians" I think it was Mel Smith as the vicar, some of it went(as I recall)
vicar: let's have a little bit less of this get thee behind me satan & a bit more of the come in me old mate & have a cup of tea,as the devil's had some really bad press.
I think there was then diabolists interviewed ending with:
diabolist:We believe satan is our lord & master who will kill Jesus & rule by infernal power(or something like that)
To which the vicar responds with: Ah here we have a theological grey area.
at November 12, 2004 1:40 PM
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