OT:

I just wanted to take a moment and welcome all the new members to the e-mail sign up.

And to the members that have been with it for a while, thank you for all the information that you pass along and your helpfulness.

Many have asked how they can contribute. On the main page for the site is an area to contribute. It's Amazon-paypal.

Just go there and click onto it and it will take you to a secure site.

Some have asked how the money is spent.

The money helps fund the site, also, pays for travel expenses for Robert to be able to appear on various news programs. He doesn't get paid for those.

Also, Robert has been kind enough to send copies of his books to those overseas that can't get the books or the money to buy them.
$24.99 here is the same as a $1,000.00 in some countries.

Everything that is donated, goes to support the work of Robert, Hugh and the site and is much appreciated.

Susanb

Posted by: susan_b at December 14, 2004 4:50 PM

1. Absolutely true. We owe a lot to Robert and Hugh for providing us with the truth about the "Religion of peace".

2. You may think of the BNP what you like (and I don't like their attitude towards the US and Israel) but Griffin's absolutely right in his views on Islam - we all know that because that's why we're here. The BNP is a legal political party in the UK and what is happening over there - especially the intimidation of some BNP members - beggars belief. It's about time these pc morons of the Labour Party get kicked out of the office!

Posted by: disillusionised_german at December 14, 2004 4:55 PM

Thanks Susan for reminding us.

Posted by: Voltaire at December 14, 2004 5:38 PM

I don't agree with the BNP in other ways, but this is positively Orwellian.

Islam is now in charge. Everybody be notified, muslims now run the show. This kind of thing only happens in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and other Islamic countries.

Great Britain is officially an Islamic state.

And now I know why Tony Blair wants Turkey to join the EU.

Posted by: Voltaire at December 14, 2004 5:43 PM

Questions for the Brits out there:

Are the people in the BPN really neo-nazis types
or are they anti-mohammedans and have been classified as racist by the British liberal media?

How can calling islam "a vicious, wicked faith"
be construed as incitement to commit racial hatred? mohammedanism is a political, social and religious system of ridiculous beliefs and has nothing to do with a race which has similar genetic characteristics.

Posted by: the poetess at December 14, 2004 5:44 PM

Well, the British try all their energy to prevent terrorists to strike at them; I doubt mister Blair would have supported a war in Iraq now. They probably fear they are the next target, so use the best dhimmitude to prevent a terrorist attack. But it won't be enough I think, and a terrorist attack will lead to social unrest in England. No law can prevent that and no law can eventually prevent the British people to wake up.

Posted by: Nordthiad at December 14, 2004 6:00 PM

This matter was reported on the BBC News as having the attention of "a team of police officers working 10 hours a day, 5 days a week to review the video evidence to see if a crime has been committed". If one assumes that three officers constitute this team, that totals 150 man-hours per week!!
How does one commit hatred?
The BNP is on a winner here and it's entirely the fault of the leftist establishment.

Posted by: Allan@Aberdeen at December 14, 2004 6:02 PM

I urge you not to associate yourself with the BNP. They are a racist group whose leadership all have form for racist offences including assault. I would not pin your hopes that the BNP is some kind of ally in the fight against islamic fascism. The BNP are bigots and not the answer. Just recently they had members walk out of their "Christmas do" because the DJ was black. They were embarrassed at having booked a black guy as the entertainment. This website loses credibility in my eyes if it deems to be in good company by quoting the BNP.

Posted by: ReligionOfPeaceMyArse at December 14, 2004 6:06 PM

I can see the headlines in the 'SUN':

Free speech in olde England only for muzzies!!!

Exposing evil becomes 'incitement?'

Are the bobbies wearing turbans yet and are they going to be called 'muttaquas' soon...?

Posted by: Terminator at December 14, 2004 6:11 PM

ReligionOfPeaceMyArse:

I read the piece about the supposed walk-out too. The BNP website stated nonetheless that it wasn't true and nobody objected to the dj being black. I am not sure who to believe but I wouldn't trust the left-wing press, that much is for sure.

I am pretty sure that part of the BNP has a racist agenda which I won't condone because I have a black girlfriend.

The question is - who's the bigger threat? New Labour or the BNP. Considering how things are shaping up over there I'd say Labour. I still wouldn't vote for the BNP though. I would probably go for UKIP if I lived over there. As was stated in earlier articles - we need to strengthen people like Robert Kilroy-Silk.

Posted by: disillusionised_german at December 14, 2004 6:15 PM

In fact, I would suggest you remove this entry from your web site.

Posted by: ReligionOfPeaceMyArse at December 14, 2004 6:18 PM

ReligionOfPeaceMyArse:

I may not be a great fan of the BNP (as I have stated above) but you seem to have been brainwashed by the leftists in the UK for too long. 800,000 people voted for the BNP in the European election. This may not be a majority but a large number of voters nonetheless. Unlike the country I live in (Germany) there's no reason why people in the UK shouldn't be allowed to vote for a nationalist party. If more mainstream (real) conservatives would get involved within the BNP one could probably oust the racists. I will stress it again: I consider the BNP a smaller risk for our civilisation than the Labour Party or the Lib Dems. We have seen what the latter have done to your country and I don't think the BNP will ever be in a position to fully enforce their policies.

Posted by: disillusionised_german at December 14, 2004 6:25 PM

I think the sikh bobbies get to wear their turbans.

But in any case, the BNP are historically nazi white supremist types drawing their membership from poorer housing schemes. They are making political gain by changing their focus from getting the paki's and "niggers" out ("there is no black in the union jack so send the B**s back") etc etc. They weren't arrested for saying something about islam, I am sure they were arrested for actually doing something or planning on doing something violent.

Posted by: ReligionOfPeaceMyArse at December 14, 2004 6:31 PM

I would agree that the 22 year old history of the BNP is tainted with racism in the form of skin head diplomacy in many cases. . I for one would not want to be associated with that kind of extremism. Where as Nick Griffins father who started the BNP was kicked out of the Tory Party. I would think that there was more to these comments by the younger Griffin than is written in the AFP article.

Posted by: Mackie at December 14, 2004 6:31 PM

Ya, well, at least they've got the balls to confront islam.
I don't put much stock in somebody crying "racist" anymore. As far as I'm concerned the definition of racism is believing that a race of people are BORN inferior--

As long as somebody does not believe in that, in my opinion they are not actual racists.

Posted by: kentim at December 14, 2004 6:43 PM

I think that to use this article as a demonstration of "dhimmitude" is just not appropriate. Yes, the BNP have said that islam is an evil/wicked religion (who hasn't ?!) but this is just something they have added to their repertoire fairly recently. They never used to consider the ideology of their non white, jewish or gay targets.

Posted by: ReligionOfPeaceMyArse at December 14, 2004 6:44 PM

Nick Griffith is right about Islam. Hitler was right about motorways, but people should not have supported him.

Nick Griffith is an evil piece of sh*t, and his party is racist in the real meaning of the word, as opposed to the whiney lefty version.

At the moment, and long may this remain, incitement to religious hatred is not an offence, but incitement to racial hatred is. Nick Griffith is using legitimate concerns about Islam, concerns which I share, to further an anti-Pakistani agenda and get round the racial hatred laws. He is not someone that we should support in any way whatsoever. He is anti-semitic, anti-black and otherwise evil. Check out the BNP website.

One of the many bad things about political correctness is that healthy debate is surpressed so that only extremists raise legitimate concerns.

Posted by: Interestd at December 14, 2004 6:47 PM

Sometimes when I read of these kind of incidents i.e. "free speech" . I always recall the still controversial comment made by the late Senator Barry Goldwater of Arizona when he ran for President: "EXREMISM IN THE DEFENCE OF LIBERTY IS NO VIRTUE"! Those words still ring in a kind of gray zone as we try and ponder how to respond to the threats that Islam poses to the western world. But this is a battle against a fascist, and totalitarian ideology not a race or an ethnicity. So how extreme will one have to become in the defence of our free societies is the question to ponder?

Posted by: Mackie at December 14, 2004 6:49 PM

Not quite right.

EXTREMISM IN THE DEFENSE OF LIBERTY IS NO VICE, and MODERATION IN THE PURSUIT OF JUSTICE IS NO VIRTUE !!

Posted by: kentim at December 14, 2004 6:54 PM

IMO, the BNP are fairly racist and so personally I wouldn't vote for them as a result. Traditionally they are/were anti Black People, Jews, Chinese etc as well as being anti Islamic. Their current leader, Nick Griffin, has (apparently) tried to focus in on just being anti-Islam although how much theyve actually changed (if at all) is hard to say. So even though I agree with his comments in the speech on the dangers of Fundamentalist Islam, I would be very, very reluctant to vote BNP.

Another reason why I wouldnt vote for them, is I myself am not 100% convinced that the ballot in the UK is secret. Im pretty sure anyone who votes BNP would come up on some sort of black list, and as members of the BNP have been sacked from their jobs (recently a school teacher if I recall correctly), its likely that people who've voted for them may suffer similar treatment.

As for UKIP, I would be tempted to vote for them as they are a more respectable party and dont have a history of racism.

What the UK really needs is a Pim Fortein-like party, which is anti-Islamic but not racist.

Either way the fact 800,000 people voted for the BNP in the last set of elections says a lot about the mood of UK citizens. A lot of people dont like the idea of the UK slipping towards a Dhimmified State and I think these frustrations (at the fact the current Labour Government seem to be encouraging the Dhimmification) are resulting in such a rise in votes for the BNP. I think that if there was a major incident in the UK, like a Van Gogh murder or a 9/11 then a conflict could well arise.

Posted by: tranmere_rover at December 14, 2004 6:55 PM

Religionofpeacemyarse:

'the BNP have said that islam is an evil/wicked religion (who hasn't ?!) but this is just something they have added to their repertoire fairly recently. They never used to consider the ideology of their non white, jewish or gay targets.'

Spot on! The BNP are cynically manipulating legitimate concerns about Islam for their own purposes.

Love the name, by the way, better than mine which gets spelt wrong on this site through no fault of my own.

Mackie:

'So how extreme will one have to become in the defence of our free societies is the question to ponder?'

An important question. We should not, in my view, make common cause with the BNP, not because they are 'extreme' - many on this site are 'extremely' opposed to Islam. We should not support them because they have a racist agenda. Racism is indefensibile. Criticism of religion, or any belief, is fair.

Posted by: Interestd at December 14, 2004 6:56 PM

Kentim:

If you are correct, than I stand corrected. Not having read it verbaten recently I may have inadvertantly perverted its correct meaning! Even in that context, it still remains something to ponder.

Thanks for the correction.

Mackie

Posted by: Mackie at December 14, 2004 7:04 PM

I heard a brief clip on BBC News in which Griffin claimed that these BNP arrests were carried out just to win the Labour Party back the 'Muslim bloc vote', and that the charges would be quietly dropped after the general election in 2005.

This sounds plausible as there have been several mentions in the press recently about Labour being desperate to win back the Muslim vote from the Lib Dems and George Galloway's Respect Party. (Labour lost its muslim support when it backed the invasion of Iraq.)

Blunkett's 'Religious Hate' legislation is also said to be a cynical ploy to get the muslim vote. If that gets passed, then Griffin might be prosecuted under that law (if it's retrospective)as calling Islam a 'vicious, wicked faith' is clearly not an incitement to RACIAL hatred. (Not in a sane society anyway.) I daresay worse things have been said about Islam from church pulpits in the not so distant past.

If the Religious Hatred Act is passed, I look forward to a coalition of Christian, Jewish, Hindu and Buddhist etc organisations making a legal challenge to those unplesasant passages in the Koran that JWers have come to know so well...

Posted by: Benelux at December 14, 2004 7:11 PM

Your welcome.
It was his response for leftists calling him an "extremist".
Too bad he lost, and they won in the long view.
Its why we are, where we are today.

Posted by: kentim at December 14, 2004 7:11 PM

Rikki -

You mentioned recently that you forward some JW stories to three UK newspapers (Sun, Star and Independent IIRC.)

Good thinking! How about adding the Daily Mail and The Jewish Chronicle to the list?

Keep up the good work.

Posted by: Benelux at December 14, 2004 7:22 PM

The Islamists in the UK have been free to call for the Death of Americans, Jews and infidel, but it's these same Islamists who want to hasten the proposed "blasphemy" laws which will help them supporess any remnants of free speech left in this country (the UK).

Personally, I can't stand the BNP, they're thugs, but they should still be entitled to their freedom of speech just as the Islamists are.

Today Iqbal Sacranie, the leader of the Muslim Association of Britain spoke out about the so-called "Islamophobia" in the UK and welcomed the proposed new laws protecting Muslims and Islam from coming under any criticism whatsoever!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/12/14/do1401.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/12/14/ixopinion.html

Posted by: Jerusalem Posts at December 14, 2004 7:32 PM

The day the freedom died...
So,bye,bye,miss Britanian pie
I never thought i will see the day when the brave britons will lose their freedom;religious,cultural,national freedom in Britain is about to vanish.
They will soon close the pubs and make alcohol illegal.
And they faught so hard in ww2....for this to happen??!!!
So this means that mr.Bean making a comedy movie about islam,with himself playing the role of Mohamed,is out of the question??!!

Posted by: adela at December 14, 2004 7:37 PM

Young Winston Churchill wrote these perceptive words forty years before he became Prime Minister of Great Britain:

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical
frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic
apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and
insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded
sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.
The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property -
either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the
faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men."

If he said the same today, he would no doubt quickly find himself - courtesy of David Blunkett - in the cell next to Nick Griffin's!

Would the next Winston Churchill please step forward...

Posted by: Benelux at December 14, 2004 8:05 PM

So the cops swoop in only when the BNP bash Islam, but didn't do anything back when they were bashing other groups. So much for equal treatment. We get the picture - you can villify anyone but Islam. Nothing but a vote-buying exercise. Grovel, grovel, grovel.

Benelux, re Winston's "Islam-bashing" quote. Nothing's changed, has it? They were the same back then as they are now. No improvement, no progression, same backward barbarity today. When he said this, I doubt there was the Israeli-Palestinian thing happening, so what was their excuse?

Hugh Grotius also did some "Islam-bashing" in his day: "This religion (Mahometanism), altogether contrived for the shedding of blood, delights much in rites and ceremonies, and would be believed without all liberty of enquiry thereinto." ... back in the 1600's. What was their excuse then? No Israeli-Palestinian conflict to blame. No American foreign policy. Hmmm, couldn't be that Islam is a wicked, vicious faith, now could it?

Posted by: feralee at December 14, 2004 9:30 PM

The BNP is like LePen. Both make it far easier for organized Islam to pretend that everyone who worries about it a fascist, beyond the pale. One hopes, for the sake of England, that respectable people who abhor the BNP will state what has to be stated, and that LePen will disappear, to be replaced by someone who understands that Islam itself is the threat to the West that LePen (who visited, and offered his support, to Saddam Hussein, and of course hated Israel).

Roger Garaudy had no trouble switching from being the most fanatical of Marxists to becoming a devout Muslim and open antisemite to boot. The similiarity between all those doctrines that offer a Total Solution of Everything -- as Marxism, Fascism, and Islam all do -- has been anlalyzed by Ibn Warraq and many other ex-Muslims. That should be kept in mind.

Griffith may have accidentally stated a truth, but even a truth, from a source sufficiently tainted, can be more easily disbelieved. That must not be forgotten.

Posted by: Hugh at December 14, 2004 10:16 PM

The BNP is like LePen. Both make it far easier for organized Islam to pretend that everyone who worries about it a fascist, beyond the pale. One hopes, for the sake of England, that respectable people who abhor the BNP will state what has to be stated, and that LePen will disappear, to be replaced by someone who understands that Islam itself is the threat to the West that LePen (who visited, and offered his support, to Saddam Hussein, and of course hates Israel and prefers to stand up for the Arabs in that conflict).

Roger Garaudy had no trouble switching from being the most fanatical of Marxists to becoming a devout Muslim and open antisemite to boot. The similiarity between all those doctrines that offer a Total Solution of Everything -- as Marxism, Fascism, and Islam all do -- has been anlalyzed by Ibn Warraq and many other ex-Muslims. That should be kept in mind.

Griffith may have accidentally stated a truth, but even a truth, from a source sufficiently tainted, can be more easily disbelieved. That must not be forgotten.

Posted by: Hugh at December 14, 2004 10:16 PM

I'd vote for the devil himself, if he was against Islam. That's how much I hate it.

Posted by: Voltaire at December 14, 2004 11:25 PM

Relgion of Peace.etc/: I sympathize with you about the BNP. We Americans need Klan and Aryan Nations support against Islam like a hole in the head. Such people do indeed give credibility to the Leftie-Muslim whine about "racism".

But, does this arrest mean that if we're from Old Dissent, we can go after every secularist, Quaker, and Anglican writer who ever called our Calvinism "harsh", and get their books removed from shelves if they're already dead? Naaaaah. We Puritans wrote early broadsides for freedom of the Press and speech, and got our ears cropped for our trouble. We've made our bed and lie in it.

SO--advice for Old England: take a leaf from the Scots in 1638-42 and your parliament of about the same time, and instead of calling your monarch to the carpet, call some of these honorable cabinet ministers to account.

Posted by: Kepha1 at December 15, 2004 12:37 AM

Frankly, hate crime legislation is nothing but a disarming of the West--at least the way it is used. The whole concept is oxymoronic as well. Can anyone who loves his neighbor--or at least treats him with honest respect--murder, assault, batter or rob him?

If the KKK burns a cross on some black family's lawn, we simply need to throw the book at them for trespass, assault, damage to property, and a bunch of other good old Common Law crimes. In the same way if the BNP acts in a way that convinces Sino-British people to become Sino-Canadian (I've known people like that), throw similar charges at them.

If you're going to charge racial or ethnic incitement against the BNP, throw the same lawbook at every imam who preaches out of Surah IX.

Posted by: Kepha1 at December 15, 2004 12:42 AM

Hugh: interesting comment on ROger Garaudy. My guess is that this reveals the whole of the immoderate Left to be nothing but a bunch of bitter, destructive nihilists at heart.

Posted by: Kepha1 at December 15, 2004 12:48 AM

Some more about Griffin, from
www.haaretzdaily.com
The British Le Pen is euphoric
By Sharon Sadeh

But Griffin insists that he did not allege that there's a Jewish conspiracy. "That's absolutely out of the question. What the pamphlet says, and what everybody recognizes, is that especially in America, the Zionist lobby is massively powerful and influential....But also in Britain, if you look at the funding and influence in the Labour Party - again, there's a disproportionate number of Jews involved in that. But that is not to say that either a Jewish conspiracy or that Jews are involved or to blame."
------------------
Gee, why wasn't he arrested for this statement? Maybe because Muslims and the left (and most of Europe in general) agrees with that statement? He sounds just like some leftist protester or writer- conspiracy theories, anti-Semitism mixed with anti-Americanism, and saying he's "not anti-Semitic, just anti-Zionist."

Posted by: Megan at December 15, 2004 12:50 AM

Lawrence auster on the Arrest of BNP Leader Nick Griffin:

"If this news story is accurate, then Britain is under a reign of state terrorism. What is terrorism? A transgressive act done to a society that is so outside the norm, so random (meaning that it can happen to anyone), and seemingly so unstoppable that it demoralizes the society and takes away people’s ability to respond."

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/

Posted by: Andrew at December 15, 2004 3:58 AM

Holy. Mother. Of. God. I need a drink.

Posted by: bastardos at December 15, 2004 4:04 AM

This for me is a tricky one. Because, to give an example for Americans here, Nick Griffin is on the same level as David Duke. The BNP are National Socialists and anti semites to boot (it always amazes me that they dont make common cause with the Jihadis in this respect)

They are stuffed full of holocaust deniers (Channel 4 made a documentary recently in which the leader of their youth wing was filmed covertly saying that the Jews were responsible for their own fate in the death camps), and their members can be compared to the Aryan Nation in attitude and mentality.

Nick Griffin wants to be made a martyr. What I am saying is, we should be careful around who we associate ourselves with. Nick Griffin and the BNP represent the extreme right wing of British politics, and we should choose our fights carefully.

Posted by: Kaffir Boy at December 15, 2004 6:01 AM

"The BNP are National Socialists and anti semites to boot (it always amazes me that they dont make common cause with the Jihadis in this respect)"

Their anti-semitism is muted (but not done away with) because their prospective supporters are not too much impressed by it. They and their supporters are nationalists: whatever that might entail, it does not sit well with Islamist/Dhimmi thinking. Finally the extreme left HAVE already teamed up with the Islamists so there is no free space even if the BNP were minded: there have been postings on "Respect" (for whom I have absolutely none)

Posted by: philiph at December 15, 2004 6:20 AM

I think many are missing the big picture here. This is NOT, I repeat, NOT about Nick Griffin and the BNP, it is about being able to debate/criticize Islam and the insane liberal immigration policies which entrenches it further and further into British society.

Mr. Griffin did not incite "Racial" violence at all, he merely criticised Islam.

This cannot be a good development for anybody except Muslims are are once again granted special status within a western society as we arrest everyone who dares speak the truth.

Posted by: Andrew at December 15, 2004 7:03 AM

Are we next?

"Saudi Arabia has created one of the world's most extensive national Internet filtering systems. According to official Saudi announcements, the government blocks access to nearly 400,000 web pages with the aim of "protecting citizens from offensive content and protecting the principles of Islam and the social norms." The Saudi Internet Services Unit (ISU) maintains the Internet censorship system, even offering an online form and e-mail address (abuse@isu.net.sa) for Internet users who would like to report sites they think should be blocked."

http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16314

Posted by: Andrew at December 15, 2004 7:40 AM

And what are the charges against this guy? Blasphemy?

Posted by: Sheik Canuck (swt) at December 15, 2004 8:32 AM

I don't put much stock in somebody crying "racist" anymore.
Posted by: kentim

Neither do I. I use to belong to the Reform party here in Canada. We were called racists all the time. Even our non-Caucasian members. I remember one meeting I attended where there were these wacko protestors. They were screaming “racists” at us as we filed in and out of the building. The meeting was in Vancouver and almost %50 of our members that attended were either East Indian or Chinese decent. Almost all of the protestors were white kids. Funny thing was, CBC didn’t show our non-Caucasian members on the news that night, just the few older white men.

Posted by: Sheik Canuck (swt) at December 15, 2004 8:43 AM

As we are all fully aware, we live in a (tongue in cheek) democratic free and fair society here in the U.K.
Could it be at all possible that our governments proposals for the incitement to religious hatred law linked with the existing incitement to racial hatred law could possibly be a sneaky way of lulling our Islamic friends into a false sense of security. After all, who publicly spits the most venom at religion and race, etc. etc. etc.
I can just see MI5 sending agents into mosques in disguise, planting bugs all over the place.

Could our government be getting as deceitful and underhand (as if they weren't already) as our Muslim friends.?

Highly unlikely, but One can live in hope (sigh)

The lawyers will certainly be rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of this one making the law. £££££££££

Posted by: True Brit at December 15, 2004 8:47 AM

If the KKK burns a cross on some black family's lawn, we simply need to throw the book at them for trespass, assault, damage to property, and a bunch of other good old Common Law crimes.
Posted by: Kepha1

I agree with you 100%. We don’t need special laws for “hate” or “incitement”. When you assault someone or damage his or her property or trespass, you have committed a crime and you should pay for it.

Posted by: Sheik Canuck (swt) at December 15, 2004 8:54 AM

This is Exactly what people like Dean, Rather, Chomsky, moore, kerry and kj would like to see happen to the Republican party. Fortunately it will be four, if not Eight, more years until they can attempt to silence all dissent of their views and ethics, as they tried to do with Sinclair. But by then the Threat of islam should be very clear to almost everyone, and they won't stand a chance of becoming Big Brother like the Labour party in England has.

Posted by: Gary at December 15, 2004 9:25 AM

The BNP are most definitely a party of hate,being
Irish I'm in no doubt how they feel about me.
But it's an absolute disgrace that he's been arrested for the comments he's made on Islam,if
ever we needed proof that our civil liberties are
quicky being eroded to fit into this Leftist/Muslim Utopia it's this.How long did the
authorities allow Abu Hamza to spew his vicous hate filled speech before they eventually arrested him?.How many people did they allow be
infected by his ideoligy over those years when he illegaly seized the mosque?.
Britain needs to re-evaluate how they deal equally with the law,are we to seriously believe
that an individual who points out some home truths clearly written in the Quran is juilty of any crime?
Whilst Abu Hamza clearly called for Sharia,Jihad,
Death to the Infidel and a new Holocaust for the Jew.Britain sort yourself out as you appear to be wavering,realise the difference between free
speech and hate speech.

God Bless - Happy Christmas. Sul3j.

Posted by: sul3j at December 15, 2004 9:26 AM

ReligionOfPeaceMyArse and others from the UK deliver a timely warning.You risk being tainted by associating in any way with the BNP,an organisation that panders to lower class (we are still a class ridden society here in England), intellectually challenged thugs who are most certainly racist and who have developed an interest in Islam not because of the implications of its dissemination but because of an opportunistic desire to denigrate "Pakis"(anyone of colour, probably including Africans). I have no doubt that they are delighted by the arrests and long for "their day in court".I'm not sure that the Muslims are aware how dangerous it would be for them to have to answer specifically for the immutable contents of the Koran in an English Court of Law.Whilst we might rejoice at the prospect, I would prefer the prosecuted to be men and women of reason and intelligence rather than aggressive bigots.

Posted by: doc.D at December 15, 2004 10:46 AM

I don’t think there is any merit in standing ‘shoulder to shoulder’ with the BNP on this – even a stopped clock is right twice a day! Voicing public support in this instance will just cause the anti-Jihadist movement to be considered racist and thus beyond the pale as far as UK public discourse is concerned.

In the UK our full attention should be focussed on the proposed bill to outlaw "Incitement to Religious Hatred. It is quite clear that this is being drawn up with criticism of Islam in mind. The Muslims are already rubbing their hands in glee. Two examples:
• Iqbal Sacranie (Chairman of the Muslim Council of Britain) welcomed the proposed legislation (Moral Maze, Radio 4 – 14 July 2004). He included criticism of the ‘Prophet’ Mohammed as an example of what he felt should fall under the remit of the law!
• On this mornings’ Today Programme (BBC Radio 4 – you could probably still catch it on the Internet) an officer of the Muslim Council (ironically his first name is Osama, can’t recall his surname) said that he felt that the law will grant him protection against people shouting ‘Bin Laden’ at him in the street. (Whereas Osama would presumably be OK in this instance!)

So no matter what kind of soothing assurances we will get from the government we can already see where the Muslim community will try to head with this legislation! Also it doesn’t really matter whether a successful prosecution is ever brought. Threats (or even hints) of seeking prosecution from the Muslims community will already lead to self censorship and thus the decline of free speech.

We have to organise to prevent this bill from being adopted with everything we’ve got.

Here’s a few things you can do:

1) Realise that you are part of a broad coalition (including Mr. Bean!) in opposing this. Take a look at this for example: http://www.barnabasfund.org/News/Archive/United%20Kingdom/UK-20041206.htm
It seems that it is only Muslims and Labour politicians chasing Muslim votes who want this.

2) Read http://www.barnabasfund.org/News/ITRHC/ITRHC.pdf for background to the bill. The material available from the Barnabas Fund it just one example of opposition against the bill. If you don’t like their Christian perspective on the bill, you could just as well go to the National Secular Society’s website.

3) Write to you MP asking for his opinion on the bill. State briefly that you are opposed and that it is an issue that will most probably decide your vote in the next general election. You can reach him/her at:
(Name Here) MP
House of Commons
LONDON
SW1A 0AA

If we drop the ball on this one it will make our struggle against Jihadism so much more difficult. Stand up for free speech while you can!

Posted by: PJS1 at December 15, 2004 12:17 PM

All things considered, I would expect to see the arrest shortly of the UK immam who sent out two self detonating jihadis (well only one of them suceeded) that went to israel.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3475929.stm

Posted by: ReligionOfPeaceMyArse at December 15, 2004 12:37 PM

BNP is very racist, but islam must be controlled and all people against democracy and would be muslim must be deported if they were foreign and if they were brittish must be des-nationalized and deported to Saudi Arabia.

Posted by: Franze at December 15, 2004 3:10 PM

I fear I've lost our British contributors due to the time lag, but I encourage you from the far side of the world to resist the hate laws in Britian by approaching African-Christian churches, the clergy, of course, but especially the laity. I'll fall back on my usual routine here: leaflet.

Off the top of my head, Ronald Segal, co-founder of the ANC, wrote a book, Islam's Black Slaves. Take excerpts from it, print and comment like Spencer does here, and stand in front of a Black church passing out a fact sheet with comments and such from Segal and things you can find on the internet at large. segal's book details the Arab slave trade in Blacks, and he covers events happening today in places Blacks going to church in Britain will relate to very strongly: their own lands in some cases.

We would do far better to have Blacks in Britain on our web-site here than pandering to the BNP.

What's the point of leafleting Black Brits? We must organize a resistence movement from scratch. We have nothing at this point that rivals even a bird-watching club or a nudist colony in Iceland. If we can gather Black Brits to our cause, we can go from there.

The organizing experience will be so beneficial to you personally that you'll be surprized you've never done it before. and with a group you can organize a protest rally. Any excuse will do. Your goal is to make the telly and the papers, and from there to make the pubs as the round of chat for the evening. Get 100 Blacks protesting against a Moslem mosque preaching hatred against Christians, and you might even get a Leftist to say they have some right to do so.

Well, ok, I got carried away.

A page with a vivid graphic on the front, a couple of columns of quotations of inflamatory Moslem rhetoric, some quotations from Segal, and off to the wars. A protest against Islam by 100 Black Britons will do more good for the cause we fight for than will a 1000 skinhead BNP types.

I check these posts next day for follow-ups. Please let me know if there's aything I can do to assist if you're interested. (That's "interested" with three e.s. Some of us have all the luck.)

Posted by: sonofwalker at December 15, 2004 11:03 PM

This furor over the BNP, shows just how sickening political correctness is.
We (the british people ) have to be told the truth by a group of people (the bnp) who are basically a bunch of no hope scum.
However the truth is the truth no matter whom speaks it.

However this has given me an idea.
there are sikh/hindu organisations that know the truth about the religion of the beast mohammed and are not afraid to speak out.
I will research and post links to these orgs.
Maybe if they can be involved then this accusation of racism can be dealt with.

Being of indian origin, I find this really annoying

Regards

AI

PS
do any of you think buddhist monks in Thailand who object to their beheading are racist ??

Posted by: apostate_islam at December 16, 2004 7:15 AM