Focus on Fox's actual response (in WND):

[However, he corrected CAIR's statement that Fox agreed to ask affiliates that the PSA "be aired in proximity to '24.'"

Grogin said Fox only agreed to distribute the PSA to affiliates and will make no request as to when, "or even if," it is to air. ]

Fox's 'promise' is actually of little consequence when the affiliates choose to shelf the CAIR PSA package.

Perhaps this is the PC response necessary for dealing with taqiyya?

Posted by: justamomof4 at January 15, 2005 8:29 AM

Fine. Next time a show has a middle-aged white guy as a villain I expect two public service announcements saying that not all middle-aged white guys are villains.

Posted by: Miss Moneypenney at January 15, 2005 9:05 AM

Exchange of email correspondence with Nidra Poller in Paris over the CAIR FOX Kerfuffle.

The bottom line is that with Bat Ye'or teed up next month to possibly appear on O'reilly, we may have a denoument with CAIR.

Chinese: "Yes, I can see it now, B.Y. with her piercing grey eyes cowering 6"3" O'Reilly and CAIR spokesperson, Nordic former Minnesotan Ibrahim Hooper-Islam convert railing against this diminutive grandmother with a spine of steel and withering rapier-like logic."

La Nidra in Gay Paree wrote: "One more good reason for Bat Ye'or to be interviewed by O'Reilly."

Posted by: Chinese Gordon at January 15, 2005 9:56 AM

Perhaps Fox T.V. were receiving threats of violence against them.

Posted by: Ummagumma at January 15, 2005 10:37 AM

Each announcement ends with the statement: "Muslims are part of the fabric of this great country and are working to build a better America."

This great country isn't made of fabric, it's made of iron. Only it's still half asleep.

A better America will begin to surface when CAIR is eliminated from the scenery altogether. This is a group of terrible, lying good for nothings.

Prickzilla, me, took time to e-mail Fox yesterday and attached some information about this organization of sawed off low lifes.

e-mail to Fox:

Hello. I wanted to ask why Fox agreed to waste their valuable time when they met with the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), regarding the Fox series "24". I would like to suggest, as a Fox viewer, that you read the attached information regarding this organization.

Enough is enough. Please review this and ask yourselves, as the most recognized balanced network on the air, should you be listening to one word that comes out of their mouths?

Please review:

Since 9-11, CAIR has seen three of its former employees indicted on federal terrorism charges.

Randall Todd "Ismail" Royer was sentenced to 20 years in prison on charges he trained in Virginia for holy war against the United States and sent several members to Pakistan to join Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Kashmiri terrorist group with reported ties to al-Qaida.

In a plea bargain, Royer claimed he never intended to hurt anyone but admitted he organized the holy warriors after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the U.S.

After his arrest, Royer sought legal counsel from Hamas lawyer Stanley Cohen, who said after 9-11 he would consider serving as a defense lawyer for Osama bin Laden if the al-Qaida leader were captured.

Another CAIR figure, Bassem Khafagi, was arrested in January 2003 while serving as the group's director of community relations. The previous December, Ghassan Elashi, the founder of CAIR's Texas chapter, was indicted for financial ties to Hamas leader Musa Abu Marzook.

Current CAIR leaders also have made statements in support of Hamas and the domination of the U.S. by Islam.

As WorldNetDaily reported, CAIR's chairman of the board, Omar Ahmad, was cited by a California newspaper in 1998 declaring the Quran should be America's highest authority.

He also was reported to have said Islam is not in America to be equal to any other religion but to be dominant.

Jackie Mason calls Islam 'murderous' religion

Muslim group sues critic for $1.35 million

U.S. Muslims silent on Hamas chief's terror

Muslims publish 'Jesus' ad

Muslim group sues congressman for $2 million

Kucinich headlines Muslim fund-raiser

Dr. Laura: No apology to Muslims needed

Dr. Laura rebuked for 'anti-Muslim tirade'

FBI invites Muslim scholars to preach

Feds accused of 'siege' on American Muslims

Muslim-rights voice indicted in jihad plot

Americans charged in 'holy-war' plot

University fires 'terror professor'

Should Muslim Quran be USA's top authority?

Group forces censure for 'Islamophobia'

Muslims try to quash Bush nominee

It would be productive for many people send their comments to Fox. Fox and others should be made aware, or be reminded that CAIR is also a defendant in a class action suit over the 9/11 attacks.

Here is their e-address.

askfox@foxinc.com

Posted by: Prickzilla at January 15, 2005 10:52 AM

The response from the knowing should not be simple appeasement but 're-taq'(Taqiyyah back at ya)

However, if I ran FOX ( dream sequence) ;-) and was threatened by this nonsense I would commence to become a counter al Jazeera. All Islamic horror, all day long. I'd air the sermons ("kill them where you find them")The footage of wolves in sheiks clothing -- saying what they really feel about us filthy Infidels. I'd air live footage from the suicide bombings in Israel where people are laying helpless surrounded by blood and burnt body parts. Beheadingings, executions, footage from around the world -- jihad in America. The masses of rioting Hitler saluting Islamists burning American flags. Guest spots from Muslim apostates and exiled dhimmi. There would be featured commentators on every day, Islamic experts like Robert Spencer, Bat Yeor, Steve Emerson, David Pryce Jones who for 1/2 hour segments would share crucial information for the uninitiated -- history, terminology. It would be a channel where you could turn it on 24/7 and be informed.

Now all we need is wealthy benefactors and some sponsors ...

This is the cable channel of the future!

Posted by: Kemaste at January 15, 2005 11:23 AM

I cannot think of a single aspect of Islam that is not inimical to the American Constitution, and to the Bill of Rights. It is difficult to think of one thing about American political and economic and social arrangements, on individual autonomy, on free and skeptical inquiry, on freedom of conscience, on virtualy any aspect of American life and American history, that Islam would support, much less be part of the "fabric" of American life. People of any ideology can arise anywhere, or move anywhere. But the fact that Muslims now have been allowed to move here, to receive Saudi money for mosque-and-madrasa complexes (when you see, in your neighborhood, a $15 million complex arising, for "100 families" you know that the financing is coming from elsewhere). No adherent of Islam can possibly, at the same time, be loyal to the American Constitution, or to the Infidel nation-state. All loyalty is to be directed toward fellows Muslims and toward Islam. This is not a candard; not a libel; it is a simple statement of fact.

There is only one aspect of Islam that overlaps with the American Constitution. What aspect is that? The recognition, in the Constitution, of slavery. But a Civil War, and the 13th Amendment, abolished slavery forever. No one would argue that slavery is forever.

But in Islam, slavery -- recognized in Qur'an, hadith, and sira -- is a permanent feature of life. There never was a Muslim Wilberforce. There never has been a single Muslim, even now, to forthrightly condemn the extensive slave trade in both black slaves (far larger, and far more deadly, because the black slaves, chiefly young boys, were castrated before the long march to the Islamic slave markets, and the mortality rate was very high; only about 10% -- see an exhaustive article on "the Hideous Trade" by Jan Hogedorn -- survived) and in white slaves (about one million Europeans were captured, enslaved, and forcibly converted by Arab Muslim slave raiders, and this does not count all those Christians seized in the Balkans and Eastern Europe by the Ottoman Turks, under the devshirme levy).

The British attempted to stamp out the Arab slave trade which had its entrepot in Muscat and Oman. For a while, they succeeded. But now that the British and French are gone, black slavery is back -- in Mali, in Mauritania, in the Sudan, and in the Gulf itself. For advertisements in Saudi newspapers, where offers are made to "trade" a young "Asian girl" for a "used, but late-model car" show clearly that chattel-slavery exists in Saudi Arabia. A few months ago an important Saudi cleric said that "of course slavery always had to exist" becuase it was in the Qur'an.

So that is the only overlap that one can see between Islam and the American Republic in its early days: both permitted slavery. The United States abolished slavery. In Islam, slavery can never be abolished, and will always be tolerated (save when prying outsiders may pressure others, such as Saudi Arabia when it finally, and most reluctantly, "officially" abolished slavery in 1962).

As for Muslims working for "a better America," if imposition of the Shari'a, with its mistreatment of women and of all non-Muslim minorities, if constant attempts to limit free speech (as with Fox itself), and to incessantly make demands for the American political and social system to change in order to accomodate the very different, antagonistic system of Islam, constitutes working for a "better America," then we might as well pack up the American Republic right now.

One has just one request: before Fox spokesmen, before NPR commentators, before editorial writers for The New York Times or The Washington Post or The Boston Globe, make pronouncements about what Muslims want for America, why don't you just do a little bit of research? Just spend a few days reading what is in Qur'an, hadith, and sira. Find out what the treatment, over 1350 years, of conquered non-Muslims has been, and try to understand that the similarity in this treatment, over time, and space (so that Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Buddhists, and Hindus, when not immediately killed or converted, endured the same kind of treatment, which can be studied) is not an accident, for the tenets of Islam, whatever sectarian variations between Shi'a and Sunni, or differences between the four Sunni schools of jurisprudence, or differences in severity of application of the criminal penalties and in limits on women's freedom, those tenets, as they relate to Infidels, are everywhere the same.

It is irresponsible to claim that Muslims "are part of the fabric of this great country" (in what way, precisely? Because they happen to be physically present? Are Nazis part of the "fabric of this great country"? Were Japanese militarists? Should they be? What is it that Islam shares with the beliefs of the Founding Fathers? With Abraham Lincoln? With a single important figure in American or indeed Western political thought? Art? Science? Where is this overlap? Tell us, and give us details). There is a confusion between physical presence, and some other kind of sharing or participation. Islam is dead set against pluralism, against the rights of the individual. Everyone should get that straight.

If your idea of a "better America" is what Muslims are "working" towards, just as in Europe they are presumably "working for a better Europe" with a bit more success, then your understanding of the American Constitution, and of what kinds of political and social understandings have, over centuries, made possible the most impressive achievements of Western, and of American, civilization -- then you need to study, and think about what you have studied. And be just a bit more grateful and imporessed with the legacy you have inherited, and just a bit more willing to defend it, without contributing to the miasma of pious nonsense about Islam. The teachings of Islam -- not the Five Pillars of individual worship, but all the rest -- to everything worth preserving in the civilization of the West.

Posted by: Hugh at January 15, 2005 11:37 AM

I recently came across an article written in 1991 about how Moslems are being encouraged to move to Europe in order to make Europe 'Islamic.' Unfortunately, I'm not at home at the moment but next time I come here, I'll bring the article with me. This, I believe, is a 'silent' conquest. I don't believe this could happen in the U.S. but it is certainly happening in Holland. And in places like England and France they don't hide their goals. And the fact that Islamic banks run by Sharia law have been approved is very disturbing.

Posted by: Chaya at January 15, 2005 12:06 PM

There would be featured commentators on every day, Islamic experts like Robert Spencer, Bat Yeor, Steve Emerson, David Pryce Jones who for 1/2 hour segments would share crucial information for the uninitiated -- history, terminology. It would be a channel where you could turn it on 24/7 and be informed.

...And Hugh! Oh yeah ....

Posted by: Kemaste at January 15, 2005 12:09 PM

However, if I ran FOX ( dream sequence) ;-) and was threatened by this nonsense I would commence to become a counter al Jazeera. All Islamic horror, all day long. I'd air the sermons ("kill them where you find them")The footage of wolves in sheiks clothing -- saying what they really feel about us filthy Infidels. I'd air live footage from the suicide bombings in Israel where people are laying helpless surrounded by blood and burnt body parts. Beheadingings, executions, footage from around the world -- jihad in America. The masses of rioting Hitler saluting Islamists burning American flags. Guest spots from Muslim apostates and exiled dhimmi. There would be featured commentators on every day, Islamic experts like Robert Spencer, Bat Yeor, Steve Emerson, David Pryce Jones who for 1/2 hour segments would share crucial information for the uninitiated -- history, terminology. It would be a channel where you could turn it on 24/7 and be informed.

Now all we need is wealthy benefactors and some sponsors ...

This is the cable channel of the future!

Posted by: Kemaste at January 15, 2005 11:23 AM

There would be featured commentators on every day, Islamic experts like Robert Spencer, Bat Yeor, Steve Emerson, David Pryce Jones who for 1/2 hour segments would share crucial information for the uninitiated -- history, terminology. It would be a channel where you could turn it on 24/7 and be informed.

...And Hugh! Oh yeah ....

Posted by: Kemaste at January 15, 2005 12:09 PM

THREE CHEERS FOR KEMASTE!

Kemaste, my fantasy was limited to a radio talk show hosted by Robert et al., but this is WAY BETTER! He could host a show with visuals in color! And all the whiney-whiney stuff from CAIR, all the threats, all the lies, etc. could be exposed on a regular basis. . .

Is there any tiny little TV station that could be the "start up" program for Kemaste's idea? Anyone with Big Bucks who might chip in? Maybe it could be financed the way the Green Bay Packers were, by selling shares.

Oh, well, one of these days. . . Dream on.

Posted by: cubed at January 15, 2005 1:19 PM

I agree with Miss Moneypenney.

Posted by: flameon1 at January 15, 2005 1:34 PM

I'm very disappointed in Fox. Does this now mean that in the interests of equality, there will be service announcements after every episode that will show terror plotting group X (daughters of CIA agents, etc) of each episode in a positive light and that they are part of the fabric of this great country and are working to build a better America?

Posted by: Dilophos at January 15, 2005 1:35 PM

I don't subscribe to the Comedy channel so when I need a good laugh I go to the CAIR website
and see how paranoia can be dangerous if left unchecked.

BTW,I saw the original unwarranted PSA's and I noticed all the people were non-whites,and all the females had Hijab's or some type of headscarf. So much for the Hijab being a free-will choice by women within Islam,and why do them assume that no Europeans Muslims have move to the USA.
Not the greatest selling point for a PSA that's meant to dispell stereotypes based on a presupposed bigotry by Westerners.

Posted by: ala-sux at January 15, 2005 2:29 PM

To: Fox News, USA

The Council of American Islamic Relations includes current and past
members under arrest or conviction for Muslim terrorist activity within
the USA.

Fox and others should be reminded that CAIR is also a defendant in a
class action suit over the 9/11 attacks.

Why has Fox seen it neccessary to air 'infomercials' sponsored by CAIR
that include the words: "Muslims are part of the fabric of this great
country and are working to build a better America."?

Some American Muslims of CAIR are working to build a much worse America.

These include Randall Todd "Ismail" Royer who was sentenced to 20 years in
prison on charges he trained in Virginia for holy war against the United
States. Also Bassem Khafagi of CAIR was arrested in January 2003 while
serving as the group's director of community relations and in December
2002 Ghassan Elashi, the founder of CAIR's Texas chapter, was indicted
for financial ties to Hamas leader Musa Abu Marzook.

Citizens rely on Fox News to bring us information about the numberous
threats to America. One of these threats is Muslim terrorism.

Despite moves in Europe and soon via the UN to criminalize any discussion
of Muslim terrorism, Americans expect Fox News to expose organizations
sympathetic to terrorists, like CAIR - not collaborate with them in
propaganda for their cause.

Sincerely

Peter Giraudo
Brisbane, CA

Posted by: PeterG at January 15, 2005 3:14 PM

Funny... I watched all four hours of the show, and the family involved appears to be middle eastern... but not necessarily muslim. No headscarf or hajib for the woman who portrays the mother; no turbans or tablecloths for the men. I don't recall at any moment of the two shows the word "muslim" being used at all. Why the heck is CAIR even involved? I guess they're worried that eee gads... people might think that muslims might be... oh say it ain't so... terrorists! Muslim terrorists? No such thing.

Posted by: Just_Linda at January 15, 2005 5:01 PM

Good e-mail, Peter. Very well put together. Fox needs to be flooded with communications about these slimeballs. Can someone send Fox the Anti-CAIR link?

Posted by: Prickzilla at January 15, 2005 6:20 PM

The arrogant hypersensitivity of CAIR is nauseating.

Can you imagine if the Italians or Irish in this country had been as pathologically self absorbed as these nit wits? We would have missed out on some great mob flicks -- the Godfather being one of them.

Note to Just_Linda:

These guys are the mental equivalents of the murderer who joins the search crew to look for the missing victim. He knows who committed the crime -- the assistance is just an act. CAIR knows the enemies of America are not limited to hijab/traditional dress wearing Muslims. As a matter of fact it's these images of suburban, westernized Muslims plotting terror against their beneficent American hosts that are most disturbing to CAIR because it's so close to the truth. They do not want the light bulb to go on in the heads of heretofore unknowing Americans ...

Posted by: Kemaste at January 15, 2005 6:22 PM

Kemaste: Chilling... and true. Perhaps the efforts of CAIR will get thrown back in their faces. After all, before watching King of the Hill, we don't get a PSA advising that "Rednecks
are part of the fabric of this great
country and are working to build a better America". Or before Moesha (sp?) "African Americans are part of the fabric of this great
country and are working to build a better America".

I think the average Joe is going to wonder what the heck is going on when right before this show comes on we have the "love a muslim" PSA. I think people are really going to take notice of this..

Peter: That was an awesome letter... I hope Bill O'Reilly gets a copy of it. What a show that would be!

Posted by: Just_Linda at January 15, 2005 7:24 PM

DO:

email FOX with all of the outrage herein at JW/DW, and be excruciatingly blunt (e.g.):

"When I want p.c. flatulent b.s., I'll turn to the OLD channels.

Are you going to NOW also have neo-Nazis on after showing old movies about Auschwitz denying its existence and saying:

"I am an 'Aryan-American!'? "

(Dissolve to stock footage of Old Glory flapping)

Pussyfooting only gets you declawed.

FOX! Get a spine!

You're alienating your customer base. The only rationale for any capitalitic enterprise. This unrealistic "religion of peace" pabulum won't flush. No one believes it who watches your network. I will turn you off forever if you don't some some testicular fortitude in the face of the propaganda ministry of radical Islam- AKA C.A.I.R.

Fools! Cowards!"

Or words to that effect.

They are IN BUSINESS. Threaten their wallet. It's the only place they have any real feeling.

Chickensh*t morons. Dhimmi wits!

Posted by: profitsbeard at January 15, 2005 8:36 PM

Well, if networks are to give equal time for every show which puts a religion in a bad light, the Evangelicals and Catholics should be getting around the clock public service announcements in their favor.

Posted by: RIslander at January 15, 2005 8:42 PM

Just_Linda

The family in the show is muslim. If you look at one of the scenes where the teenage son is talking to "Debbie" and he tells her that his family objects to them seeing each other, "Debbie" asks if that's because she is not muslim. The terrorists in the show are clearly middle eastern muslim fanatics,which makes sense since it's middle eastern muslims who are commiting the majority of the acts of terror worldwide. The mother might not be wearing a hijab as part of the family's cover as typical Americans. We know that muslim terrorists have been told to adopt western dress and lifestyles in order to better blend in to western society. They are instructed not to dress like typical muslims.

I have no problem with what Fox did, they basically tossed a bone to CAIR.Muslims have very little real political clout in the US and I doubt most Americans will care about a show depicting muslims as terrorists. Stations are not required to air the muslim propaganda so I doubt there will be many stations that will waste air time on the PSA when they can generate real money selling ads for a hit show.

Posted by: Roxane at January 15, 2005 11:23 PM

Like others have said, no other group has jumped up in outrage over how their people are represented in TV and movie entertainment. Italians, Russians, Germans, South Africans, Japanese, etc. To me, for CAIR to go around getting their noses out of joint like this can only mean they have something to hide or are guilty. It's entertainment, but at the same time, the depiction of Islamics committing terrorism acts against America is not exactly a figment of someone's overactive imagination or a fairy tale. It's reality, as we've seen enough times. Yet they continue in this ridiculous mission of trying to make us all believe that Islam has nothing to do with Muslim terrorists doing what they do. 100% taqiyya all the way. Or Pure B.S., as it's better known.

Yeah, and that last comment about "building a better America" - what a joke. Islam can only destroy, it couldn't build anything if it tried for a million years. To 'build' denotes productivity, ambition, positive action, co-operation. Qualities not present in Islam.

Posted by: feralee at January 16, 2005 12:16 AM

“If politeness and ceremony be observed toward Mohammedans, they imagine they are feared and become arrogant; but in showing severity and rudeness, they are impressed with fear and respect, and they are supple and manageable.”

--North China Herald,1867

Posted by: unicorns62000 at January 16, 2005 4:30 AM

Some interesting suggestions that have come out in this discussion. A channel for jihadwatch. The threats posed by Muslim fanaticism is never to be underestimated. As suggeseted by cubed, a channel showing the real face of Islam, like slavery in Saudi and other parts of Islam, the Indonesian ingratitude, CAIR member's terror background... a lot of material is there to air.

It is true that this medium has brought many people together here with a common cause, but a TV channel can really help make millions of people, especially the children and women, who fall for the Islamic trap,to be more careful in future.

Posted by: Seculartalk at January 16, 2005 7:31 AM

This story would be hilarious if it weren't so sickening. CAIR itself is a terrorist organization, as supported in some of the comments above. It's as if we had to apologize to the SS every time we made a war movie during WWII. But hey, we've got to do something about the dreaded scourge of ethnocultural typecasting.

Posted by: Van Helsing at January 16, 2005 8:09 AM

unicorns62000 quote from The North China Herald, which appeared in 1867, the midst of a Jihad in western China, reminds us of two things. First, we realize that Jihad is everywhere that Muslims live, and think they can achieve their goals. If they fail, they simply stop, wait, and try again. Mildred Cable describes, for example, in "The Gobi," the Jihad declared in that region of western China in 1930 -- which was suppressed by the Chinese.

A recent (Dec. 10, 2004) issue of the Times Literary Supplement contains on pp. 30-31 an omnium-gatherum review of books on Muslims in China, and the first book is "Holy War in China: The Muslim rebellion and state in Chinese Central Asia, 1864-1877" by Hodong King (Stanford University Press). It sounds as though it would repay reading.

At a time when, it is clear, the abandonment of Communist ideology will lead to the adoption of another, every Infidel has a stake in the Chinese NOT adopting Islam, but rather Christianity, or Buddhism, or the wisdom of Konfuze. While it has been reported that among some Chinese intellectuals, interest in, and admiration for, and even identification with, Israel is very strong, one doubts that this will lead to many converting to Judaism. The desired result must be: anything but Islam.

As for the content of the North China Herald remark, it expresses a truth that Infidels need to understand. In the West, kindness is usually met with kindness, compromise with compromise. Among Muslims,only strength -- the "strong horsse" of Osama bin Laden's story -- is admired. To the extent that any leader is "strong" (cf.Allawi) he will be admired. Similarly, Infidels are supposed to be cringing and subservient. When they are, they deserve no thanks, no gentle treatment. If, however, Infidels are quite the reverse, and refuse stonily to yield to Muslim demands, it is the Muslims who will start to attempt to be outwardly (never inwardly) accommodating and ingratiating. And that is the best one can hope for. It is to be achieved by showing, every minute, that one knows exactly what Islam is all about, and will not allow oneself to be fooled, for a minute.

"At your feet, or at your throat" -- that famous description, applied by the British from what was perhaps an originally different context, to the behavior of Muslims, fits the behavior of a great many Muslims perfectly. At the U.N., within Europe, and elsewhere. It is stark, even unpleasant. But also true.

Posted by: Hugh at January 16, 2005 10:50 AM

The day before Scott Grogin was visited by CAIR, he was

informed of:

1] $ trillion lawsuit filed Dec. 30/04 in N.Y. naming CAIR and CAIR-CAN [pages 37-39]

2} ANTI-CAIR-NET.org

3] Daniel Pipes great archives on CAIR

Posted by: rad at January 16, 2005 5:24 PM