Well, if we're that damn rude, then they can stay out of our country. No one invited them here. Muslims, should just shut the hell up and follow the rules like everyone else.

Here, I'll let them in on a secret: They're nothing special.

Posted by: Prickzilla at February 11, 2005 9:09 AM

Yes, well, we find dhimmitude insulting. Are they going to change their ways? Nooooooooo. That would be racist.

Posted by: igor at February 11, 2005 9:12 AM

Hey, You rude cowboys! that's how you should treat a Muslim woman correctly so that she can keep her dignity!

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Gallery/6.htm

Posted by: nippon at February 11, 2005 9:20 AM

"The US rudeness against Muslim women is an assault against their cultural identity, dignity, religion and national beliefs," the letter said. "The measure was also an insult against 1.5 billion Muslims around the world," it said.

First of all nobody`s insulting your cultural Identity, what America wants to know is what is your facial identity. If you are in America,and if you are an Iranian your national beliefs don`t count,and are not welcome here.

It is your arrogance that is rude and insulting. If you choose to come to America then you are required to respect the culture and the national beliefs of this country, not the culture and national beliefs of Iran!

Posted by: Mackie at February 11, 2005 9:23 AM

Interesting that it's Xinhua reporting the troubles between the USA and the Muslim world. Xinhua is the mouthpiece of a government (Communist China) that forced Muslim farmers to raise pigs and cut China's Muslim population by a few million back in the 1950's and '60's--despite the fact that outside of Eastern Turkistan (whose Chinese name, Xinjiang, could be translated as "New Colony"), China's Muslims identified with Chinese patriotism.

And as for the fracas in Henan a few months back, I have already gone on record that I'm not absolutely sure that one was the Muslims' fault; given that some provinces in China are very harsh on even the most private citizens who follow a religion other than Marxism-Leninism.

Posted by: Kepha1 at February 11, 2005 10:10 AM

The U.S. lawmakers cannot, must not, should not, never, no way,give in to c.a.i.r.

Posted by: Ummagumma at February 11, 2005 10:19 AM

Off topic but this story was so revealing of explicit BBC bias in favor of Islamic fascism in Iran I had to post it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4254203.stm

A sympathetic portrayal of propaganda artists and muralists, you know, those folks who create those imposing, forboding pictures of the Ayatollahs, and their struggle to sustain the integrity of their art.

The BBC does this now and then; one will find happy, positive fluff pieces on Iran designed to promote a pleasant, acceptable image for the fascist theocracy (which is referred to in this story as 'cleric based government').

And does this story have anything to do with context and the ongoing attempt to demonize Bush and America for their aggressive stance on Iran's nuclear program, that 'peaceful, domestic program' advanced by this 'cleric based' government, whose artists struggle so hard to create inspiring portraits of Islamic, revolutionary heroes?

Posted by: JTF at February 11, 2005 10:26 AM

All of this drama over a HEAD RAG! A freaking head rag of all things. The whole damn world is going to hell but head rags are a major issue? Is this an insane ideology or what? I just have to shake my head in wonder at this idiotic nonesense. The real story is that they feel "entitled" because they think they are God's chosen people. This entitlement Muslims feel is one of the major malfunctions of their religion. The reality is that the world doesn't owe Muslims a damn thing. If they want to stay hooded let them stay the hell away from the states. You're not welcome here if you won't show yourself for identification.

f.g.

Posted by: f.g. at February 11, 2005 11:01 AM

I love the quote from the article:

"... new US law that requires women who apply for visas to present pictures without their Islamic headscarves"

Isn't that the U.S. they are trying to visit - if you don't like the rules then STAY HOME!

There is a great line in Michael Totten's blog a few days ago recounting a late dinner with Christopher Hitchens and several other people (including a few Iraqis) after having had a televised debate about the Iraq elections. One of the Iraqis summed things up nicely when he said the prevelent feeling in Iraq was "the elections are over so please go home ..... and take me with you". How true it is.

Around 1979 or 1980 I met a U.S. citizen who had just returned from Iran after the revolution and was recounting his observations. He mentioned the rabid anti-Americanism and duly noted the U.S. support for the corrupt regime of the Shah. What really pissed him off was, after being verbally abused as an American, the same people would come up to him and ask how they could emigrate to the U.S. Friggin hypocrites - let them stay in their shitholes.

Posted by: johnb at February 11, 2005 11:01 AM

This story is just so typical of the moslem view of the world.
Do they ever ask themselves why are they al so desperate to leave the wonderful lands ruled by islam ?
this religion is for the ignorant.
they do anything to leave their own beastly islamic states anything.
They will even flee to a poor third world neigbour as long as they are non moslems.
moslems flee the sudan to live in kenya or uganda.
beasts from bangladesh flee to india.

i used to know a moslem girl who married a nice moslem man and what did she have to say when she was expecting her first child ?
"I hope it's not a girl !!"
they flee the the land of islam, move to non moslems land and then try to replicate the failed culture/traditions and sharia law of the land they left.

WHY ??????

Posted by: apostate_islam at February 11, 2005 11:32 AM

It seems to me that much of the modern world seems to insult the sensabilities of Islam. On the other hand it may be that much of Islam is an insult to the civilized world!!!

Il Toscano

Posted by: il toscano at February 11, 2005 11:32 AM

Without their Islamic headscarves? Why of course - it's the hair rays!!

http://www.iranian.com/Arts/2004/August/Dress/8.html

Posted by: johnb at February 11, 2005 12:06 PM

It seems to me that much of the modern world seems to insult the sensabilities of Islam. On the other hand it may be that much of Islam is an insult to the civilized world!!!

Exactly. Islam and the civilized world are incompatable. The question is what are we going to do about it? Islam must reform from within or be reformed from without by force by the free world.

The ball is in court of the defenders of Islam. Change or else we will change Islam for you.

f.g.

P.S. Go wash yourselves with a rock.

Posted by: f.g. at February 11, 2005 12:06 PM

jonb:

In one of his essays, P.J. O'Rourke recounts a story of how he was "detained" by a Hizbullah creep in Lebanon, who then proceeded to threaten him and the West with annihilation.

After this tirade was over, the fellow asked P.J. how best one could emigrate to Ohio - the guy's dream was to become a dentist in the heartland of the Great Satan.

Posted by: Darius LaMonica at February 11, 2005 1:22 PM

NEWS:

10/05/04 Hijab ban: Racist hypocrisy - Axis of Logic

10/05/04 Look past the hijab - Guardian, UK

07/05/04 French deny Muslim visa over scarf rule

23/04/04 Sikhs make mockery of French ban on the veil - Independent, UK

17/04/04 Is the Muslim head scarf a threat to democracy?

10/03/04 German Muslim woman gets creative with headscarves - Khaleej Times, UAE

22/03/04 UN official slams French ban on Muslim headscarf - Expatica Netherlands

16/02/04 Scarf ban? Not in Toronto - Toronto Star, Canada

16/02/04 Australian Women embrace the hijab - Daily Telegraph, Australia

05/02/04 The war of the headscarves - Economist

04/02/04 Muslim women's headscarves bane or boon? - Indian Express

18/01/04 Muslim women protest scarf ban - Washington Times

31/12/2003 Forget fashion, this is freedom - Telegraph, UK

18/12/2003 Islam's All-Enveloping Hijab Is Hip in Indonesia - Reuters

13/12/2003 Veiled is beautiful, say Egypt's feminists and fashionistas - Independent, UK

11/12/2003 Headscarves: Contentious cloths - BBC

11/12/2003 Headscarf row hides deeper issues - BBC

05/12/2003 Politics of the Veil - Radio Netherlands

01/11/2003 Veiled feminism - Guardian, UK

02/09/2003 First Veiled Muslim Woman In Swedish TV - Palestine Chronicle

22/04/2003 French Muslims angry at veil move - Guardian, UK

08/09/2002 More women of Islamic faith opting to wear traditional veils - Houston Chronicle

20/06/2002 Why I took the hijab - Guardian, UK

25/09/2001 Donning Scarves in Solidarity

25/09/2001 Muslim women's hijab is proud expression of their faith

Posted by: shiva at February 11, 2005 1:28 PM

sorry the link above are not adtive
try this one
www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/Park/6443/Hijab/ - 10k -
If it is not active,paste and google and you will get to know all you ever wanted know about this rag

Posted by: shiva at February 11, 2005 1:45 PM

The Sound and the Fury.

Posted by: Mike at February 11, 2005 2:06 PM

Darius:

P.J. is one of my favourite authors - same sense of humour and of the absurd. He's the much better writer of course.

Posted by: johnb at February 11, 2005 2:22 PM

John, Darius:
Have you read "Peace Kills"? I'm thinking of buying that book this weekend.

Posted by: Mike at February 11, 2005 2:40 PM

"1.5 billion Muslims"? I have added up the population figures for all Muslim countries, and for Muslims in non-Muslim countries (in both cases deducating for the non-Muslims, as in Egypt, or Indonesia), and even assuming that every man, woman, and child whom governments call "Muslims" are in fact such, I cannot come up with a figure higher than 1 billion. Is it possible we are all just allowing ourselves to be buffaloed about the numnbers of Muslims? They are not "1/4" or "1/5" of the world's population, but at most 1/6. And without the accident of geology, that 1/6 would be paid little heed.

For a thousand years, since that brief period (about 200 years) of what some call the "Golden Age" of Islam -- that is, the period when large numbers of non-Muslims continued to live and on whose civilization the conquering Muslim Arabs could batten parasitingly, there has been very little of permanent scientific or other worth to be mentioned in the same breath with what was achieved in the West. Ravenna alone contains more art treasures than the entire Muslim world produced in its entire history. Why do we keep forgetting this? Why do we pretend that "Islamic civilization" which began in the 9th century (and Islam itself probably did not begin until the 8th), and was simply the result of conquest of more numerous, wealthier, much more advanced non-Muslim peoples who were not converted or killed at once, but subject as dhimmis to slow asphyxiation, was such a splendid thing? Why do many make exaggerated claims, as if they must keep constantly in mind the remarkable self-esteem problems of present-day Muslims, who must always have their own hypertrophied sense of Muslim achievements -- even those from a thousand years ago -- confirmed?

And even if we were to participate in the exaggerated claims made for things which took place a thousand years ago, one question remains:

What have you done for civilization lately?

On the civilizational resume of Islam, there is roughly a thousand-year blank.

"1000-2000 A.D. Painted Mughal miniatures, built some mosques in Constantinople, quarried the stone from tens of thousands of destroyed churches and HIndu temples for Muslim structures" -- well, that just won't do. Islam just doesn't get the job as Permanent Solution for All Mankind. Sorry.

Next candidate.

Posted by: Hugh at February 11, 2005 4:23 PM

f.g:This entitlement Muslims feel is one of the major malfunctions of their religion.

Absolutely. The billions of dollars that have been given by the West as charity to Indonesia in the main, is not regarded as charity by them but their rightful due from the dhimmi.

The Barnabus Fund reports that some Indonesian officials are not giving aid earmarked for Tsunami victims if the victims are Christian.
I'm afraid that I'm not surprised at this, as I predicted that this will happen.

Posted by: DP111 at February 11, 2005 4:35 PM

Hugh:

There are a couple of reasons for the "virtual population growth" of muslims.

1. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world, dont you know? Every muslim knows that and quotes it at the drop of a hat. The consequence of this is that when muslim propagandist quotes 1 billion muslims in the world, the next person adds another 100 million to the total on the basis of population growth. And so on to the next muslim prop...

2. The population growth is really a reflection of growing illiteracy and non-numeracy in the islamic world. In short, they can't add.

Posted by: DP111 at February 11, 2005 4:46 PM

johnb:What really pissed him off was, after being verbally abused as an American, the same people would come up to him and ask how they could emigrate to the U.S. Friggin hypocrites - let them stay in their shitholes.

P J O'Rourke also came across this phenomenon in many parts of the world, particularly in islamic ones. His observation was - rioting students in front of the US embassy and burning the US flag in the morning, and then the same lot, queing for an American visa in the afternoon.

But really all this is part of what f.g states as "the entitlement Muslims feel is one of the major malfunctions of their religion". Muslims view the US as Allah's din and hence their rightful land. The US govt has no right to demand anything from them except facillitate their entry with due respect.

Posted by: DP111 at February 11, 2005 4:56 PM

JTF:

Thanks for the BBC link.

What can one say about the BBC. A once great organisation has come down to fawning on vicious theocratic dictatorships, which flogs and stones young rape victims.

A quote from the BBC: "For others it is still a labour of love even 26 years later."

Ah yes. The Iranian revolution is truly a labour of love, even after 26 years of butchery.

The BBC equates the Khomeini revolution to flower power, peace and love, and all that. A truly despicable article.

Posted by: DP111 at February 11, 2005 5:08 PM

Everything I read leads me to believe that muslims are the most illogical people on earth.
It's impossible to understand how they refuse to question anything Islamic when the results of anything Islamic are dismal.

Posted by: misskitty at February 11, 2005 5:38 PM

Maybe we should all write the Saudi government about the fact Christians aren't allowed to wear a cross if they go to Saudi Arabia.

"The Saudi's rudeness against USA Christians is an assault against their cultural identity, dignity, religion and national beliefs," the letter said. "The measure was also an insult against 1.5 billion Christians around the world,"

Posted by: shophet at February 11, 2005 5:42 PM

It's not the women who demonstrate for "the hijab"- It's simply propaganda. The women simply toe the line...

In 1969 I spend quite a bit of time in Iran and also in Turkey. At visits to the local universities we always encountered young females who openly admired all things western, the pop culture, the fashion, everything. Just like in the pictures in one of the attachments above they all wanted to be fashionable and "with it..."

I hasten to add: Both Turkey and Iran then were considered 'open, secular' etc. and did have that outward appearance. But, all of these students (even then!) lived in constant fear (not fear of the Shah- who should be seen as a benevolent dictator rather than vilified as a bloodthirsty despot-the Shah was a modern man and did more for Iran than a million Ayatollahs will ever do) No, these 'kids lived in fear of being spat upon, being cursed or having rocks thrown at them by those that had an issue with miniskirts and tight jeans: Their fellow muslims and in many cases their male fellow students at the same uni!

Posted by: Terminator at February 11, 2005 5:52 PM

Vote for me!
I will make it mandatory that all muzzies have to strip naked when they arrive in the US, specially the men!

Posted by: Terminator at February 11, 2005 6:07 PM

Mike:
Sorry, I haven't read that book yet.

Posted by: johnb at February 11, 2005 7:02 PM

This is awfully hollw talk coming from women who cant even have a drivers license.Well,I'm not really sure about Iran,but I know they cant in Saudi Arabia.

JLP

Posted by: John Lee Pedimore at February 11, 2005 9:28 PM

ACTION ALERT FOR THE MEMBERS

Huge Mosque Going Up in British Neighborhood

I recieved this letter today from one of our members concerning a new mosque going up in her neighborhood. She has requested the following help on the matter:

"Hi Susan,
can you help me please, can you point me in the direction of any documents ( nothing too lengthy) the group have put together that I could use to send along with a covering letter of objection to the proposals to site a mosque in our town. I'm thinking of something on the lines of various Qur'an quotes,.. Sharia gems,.. imam/cleric quotes,.. facts and figures relating to use of mosques in western countries,.. their agenda in the west,.. atrocities committed in the west,.. that sort of thing.
can you also pass this mail on to anyone who has taken on a lead role for the British within the PACC group.
I'm furious because these plans are likely to be passed, as our council TOTALLY ignores objections from the people to any plans submitted for any proposals that they are in favour of. (see link below)
I was telling my brother about it this evening and he was amazed, he actually said " I didn't think there were that many Muslims round here" and you know what, you would think he was right, because if they are here in any numbers (such as would require a mosque) they are keeping a very low profile, because I've only seen a couple of women dressed in the hajib, burkah or whatever.
I know when Songat, the camp near to the channel tunnel in France, where many were entering our country illegally from every day and night was closed, they allowed those there at the time into England and they sent most of them up here into a couple very nearby cities, and I must admit from that time they were definitely more noticeable around our small town, even in the surrounding villages.
I emailed our member of parliament ages ago suggesting that he educate himself about Islam, guess what, I didn't get a reply.
The website I found out about this mosque was the BNP site, http://www.bnp.org.uk/reg_showarticle.php?contentID=96
I was gobsmacked as we say over here. I want to add my voice to these objections but backed up with some facts as I am sure that the vast majority of my community haven't the first clue about the real Islam. These idiot councillors will be thinking it very novel and cool to give planning permission for a mosque. They are just ordinary townsfolk at the end of the day and most are not that well educated, in fact I would go so far as to say they are as thick as planks, and they will certainly have not one clue about the monster they would invite to set up shop in their midst.
Hope to here from you soon.

Kindest Regards"

please forward any information you may have to the site,www.co-jet.org(contact) or to Rikki at borgdestroyer@yahoo.com.

He heads up the England research group.

Thank You,
Susan-b

Posted by: susan_b at February 11, 2005 9:35 PM

Simple. If Iranian (and other Muslim women) are so offended, then stay home.

No doubt the freedom of the West, where women are not required to look like moving bags of laundry, is too much for them.

Talk about loving the chains that bind you!

The more I read about Muslims, and the more I see of their antics, the more I hold them and their culture in utter contempt.

Please stay home. We dont want you, either as tourists or migrants.

Posted by: DianaC at February 12, 2005 2:45 AM

If woman are forbidden in islam to have a voice or to be recognized as a human how can they have any say at all?

if you dont like it stay home in dihmitude/stupidtude

if it were permissable here in the states i would keep a ski mask with me and approach groups of people.
if i were to that now my huge butt would be in the slammer.

Posted by: hadithher2 at February 12, 2005 9:04 AM

Yes stay home you spineless hoes and let your men beat you and divorce you at will, but at least you can keep your coal sack on all the time!

Posted by: Jakester at February 12, 2005 10:53 PM