History being an evolving process and not a discrete set of events, me wonders where historians will draw the line as to the beginning of the end of free europe...

That of course assumes historians will be interested in researching history under a free society rather than spinning it under an islamic one...

Posted by: voletti at March 24, 2005 7:49 AM

Here's an essay I posted at LGF. I think it fits here:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=14885#c0218

This is meant as a reply to DP111 and others at LittleGreenFootballs. I thought of posting it on my own blog, but since we’ve had an ongoing discussion on this blog for some time, I think it is right to post it here:

The 1400 year war

“Should I stay or should I go”? That’s a tune by British rock group The Clash. With the ongoing Islamization of Europe, it could become the theme song for a whole generation of Europeans. But even in the United States, I’ve seen several signs of blatant dhimmi mentality lately, from CAIR sensitivity training of the FBI to the Bush administration paying retired Palestinian terrorists. Despite the fact that 3000 Americans were murdered in a few hours, and that the population of Muslims in the US is less then that in Europe, the media in US is truly cowed into submission. There is nothing like the trenchant articles on Islam that are common in The Telegraph. The slaughter of the Armanious family in Jersey is far more gruesome in its scope then that of Theo van Gogh. Yet this slaughter has not raised any concerns in the MSM in the US; quite different to what happened in Holland and Europe, where van Gogh’s murder opened more eyes than Beslan and the Madrid bombing did combined. The US is only a few years behind Europe in dhimmification. Besides, if Europe goes under, then the bells will definitely toll for the US as well, as Islam with Eurabia would become even more dangerous. To put it in another way: I’m not sure Islam is something you can run away from. The Armanious family no doubt thought they had finally left the Islamic nightmare behind in Egypt. And yet, it caught up with them and killed them even in the mighty USA.
Perhaps the only sensible solution is to stand your ground. The fight against Islam is global, and postponing it only aids the Islamic forces. I have been following Iranian ex-Muslim Ali Sina for some time now, and he rejects any possibility that Islam can be reformed. Unfortunately, the more I study Islam, the more I think Ali Sina is right. The idea of spreading democracy in Iraq makes sense only if you believe Islam can be reformed. Otherwise, it is dangerous nonsense that will cost the West precious time and money during our fight for survival. Erdogan's new Turkey shows that Islam keeps coming back. Despite Ataturk's attempts to deprive it of a political role for almost a century, secularism is failing. President Bush has failed to identify the Islamic enemy by calling it a “War on Terror”, not a War against Islamic Jihad or radical Islamism. It worries me that so many people even on this supposedly “lunatic” forum at LGF don’t understand this. European left-wingers never understand anything, but when even American right-wingers don’t get this, Western civilization is in trouble.

I have said several times on LGF that I fear this war could go nuclear, and was asked by some whether I am an apocalyptic person. No, I’m not. But I understand what Islam is. It was creating havoc more than one thousand years before Communism, Fascism or Nazism were even invented. There may have been more barbaric cults in existence, such as that of the Aztecs. But they were not as widely spread across several continents as Islam is. Christian Europe has had its dark moments, but it showed an ability to progress, and correct some of its mistakes. Islam has never to this day shown even the slightest hint of reform. Given its longevity, extensiveness and destructiveness, I’d say that naming Islam the largest and most stubborn enemy of human freedom in history isn’t hyperbole. Add to this the fact that we today have the most dangerous weapons ever created. The combination of mankind’s most destructive weapons and its most dangerous enemy makes the possibility of the greatest war in human history more than just paranoia.

I know you advocate population swaps, their non-Muslims for our Muslims, and separation. I want separation from the Islamic world as much as possible, too. But is this even possible in a globalized world? I’m not sure.

I will postulate that Europe will be saved because it has to be saved. The alternative is unthinkable. What Europe will be like after this struggle is anyone’s guess. The best scenario would be a newly invigorated Europe, once again on the right path after straying away from it for generations. Worst case, it would be so devastated by wars that it would never fully recover. Norway probably isn’t the worst country to be in during all this. Being the world’s third largest exporter of oil, next to Saudi Arabia and Russia, should ensure our income for the time being. Maybe it will take the loss of a European country to Islam or civil war in order to galvanize the rest of Europe against the Islamist threat. There are several countries on the shortlist of candidates for this, and Sweden is definitely one of them. Of course, should Sweden blow up, the trouble will spill over into my country. We're next door, and we have some Muslims, too. The situation is pretty surreal, actually. I come from a safe, sleepy country where the nanny state is so elaborate and all-encompassing that people kill themselves out of sheer boredom. And then one day, I wake up and stare into the eyes of an enemy my ancestors fought almost 1400 years ago, before European nation states even existed. I don’t believe in any religion, but the whole scenario does sound like some kind of test. We’ve grown weak and decadent, unworthy heirs of a great civilization. We will have to grow some backbone fast, or lose the very freedoms we take for granted. And we will deserve it if so happens.

Should I leave for the USA? I've been thinking a lot about it, and the jury is still out on that one. For my own, short term interests, I have no doubt that I would be better off in the USA. What holds me back is first of all a sense of duty. I don't always like Europe, but that doesn't mean I would enjoy watching it fall to Islam, would it? I will feel like a pretty big chicken if I leave the continent of my ancestors at the very time it is threatened with extinction. I agree with Hugh Fitzgerald of Jihad Watch that Europe may still be saved, but a lot of that responsibility will fall on people like me. If non-dhimmis who understand the Islamic threat stay and fight, Europe will survive. If people like me leave, Europe is toast. I know that sounds awfully melodramatic, but it is nevertheless true. I honestly don’t know where I will be five years from now. Last year, I was determined to leave Europe. Now, I am less sure. It is not impossible to be in the USA and still fight for your country. Just look at our Italian friend Oriana Fallaci. But I have this little voice in my head that tells me that somebody should indeed be leaving Europe, and it isn’t me. It’s a shitty little continent sometimes, but it’s my shitty little continent. Maybe Jacques Chirac doesn’t care about handing the cradle of Western civilization over to Mustafa Muhammad from Somalia, but I do. And I’m not the only one. Perhaps I am needed here.

This is the final phase a 1400 year war. Islam has tried, and failed, to conquer Europe since the 7th century. In some ways, it is closer to achieving that goal now than it has ever been. I disagree with the notion some people have, that Europe is already lost. We still have a window of opportunity to act, but it is closing fast. By the time my children grow up, it will indeed be too late. It will be have to be us doing the job, or it will be nobody. We didn’t ask for this fight and we didn’t start it, but we can make sure we finish it. There are some things you shouldn’t let your grandchildren inherit. Islam is on top of that list.

Posted by: Norwegian kafir at March 24, 2005 8:17 AM

In a funny way I feel better about this task now that I know how wicked the tenets of the Koran are. While I was under the impression that Islam was a monotheistic religion like my own, going through it's "Spanish Inquisition" stage (which no one expected - sorry), hijacked by terrorists etc I feared that the excesses of Islamic lands were due to a sort of volkgeist of the indiginous population. They would be mad b*****s whatever their religion, or atheistic ideology, and thus how could they ever be contained?
Now that I know that so many Moslems are capable of not being cruel and wicked terrorists, despite what they are taught, I am more optimistic.

But this will need to be a many pronged campaign, internal and external.

As a start internally we challenge the "religion of peace" lie. We can all do a bit of that, there is lots of valid literature and scholarship available, some of it through this site. Call it Islamofascism, do some consiousness raising as we called it when I was a student, you get the idea. Join with other races who know the score, Hindus, Sikhs, Christian Africans. Support those who wish to leave Islam, churches especially could and should do more.

Externally, and more specialised, we need to develop alternatives to Middle Eastern oil. Cutting off their main source of funds will be a help.
There is no one absolute solution, but many strands will make a good strong rope.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at March 24, 2005 8:52 AM

If Europe is going to be saved, they better get with it!

Posted by: epg at March 24, 2005 9:15 AM

This is a textbook example of the suicidal tendencies of many European countries. The multiculturalism has been pushed to the extreme by saying that people need not become European and learn the language. In fact, many Europeans think they do not have a culture, and are effectively saying their own culture can be replaced with whatever is being imported. This pathetic sell-out attitude makes me sick. I loath the constant degeneration by disgusting marxist Eurocrats and their naivity.

Europe deserves the islamic destruction.

Posted by: Jan Vink at March 24, 2005 10:05 AM

"Europe deserves the islamic destruction."

No, it doesn't. The current generation does perhaps, and definitely the one before it. But European civilization and our descendants don't.

Posted by: Norwegian kafir at March 24, 2005 10:11 AM

Norwegian kafir
....War on Islamic Jihad/radical Islam? Or war on Islam.. just plain Islam. Is there a way to separate the two? Everyone says "I have a friend who is a muslim and they aren't like that..." They don't forsee the next generation changing to more radical- but less so.
There IS no "new world" to go to.
American media treats each incident as a crime not as part of a terrorist plot. Or hinting that "well maybe they deserved it somehow?" Lawyers make sure nothing is said. I've heard people say "Countries have changed before, so what?", and I cringe. The BBC is already controlled by muslim interests. Newsweek internation is controlled by Fareed Zakaria, a muslim.
Language barriers keep each country from knowing what's going on in other countries except through approved news sources. Can crack down on blogs in Europe be far away?

How can you separate the religion from the people who practice it? A modern day inquisition - convert, leave or else. Any country that tries that will be dragged to the Hague. Or stomped by the US. Didn't Milosovic try to "save" his country from Islam? Look what happened to him, he is a monster to the media. Should he be? I don't know anymore, I used to think so. I used to think Islam was just a religion. I've never heard a translation of his words. All I heard was "massacre." I never paid attention until the 9/11 massacre, opps, I mean "tradgedy".

How could Europe or the US ever fight and win a massive war today? We are like the south during the US civil war, all the manufacturing is in the "north" (China). Can we even make our own boots? Steel for our own weapons? Clothes for our soldiers. I think that is why politicians make "nice".
Still, this site gives me hope that some people are noticing.
Hugh Fitzgerald for President!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Borg at March 24, 2005 10:18 AM

Europe deserves the islamic destruction????!!!!!
No we b**** well don't.
We were misled, yes.
We have been naive, yes.
We extended the hand of friendship and got took for mugs, yes.
We have been foolish, not wicked, and do not "deserve destruction", thank you very much !
I posted some positive things above that can be done by everybody, so please don't be so negative.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at March 24, 2005 10:39 AM

We do not deserve it and at this point I think we can roll back the damage, but only if our leaders start acting now.

First of all we have to make sure that Europeans understand the threat, though how to do this in such a PC nightmare completely escapes me.

Islam is a political movement and system of governance, this is the only way I can see that we can get out of the PC mess, when hit with attacks of racism, or blasphamy hit back that it is our right to debate and be against a system of government that we fundementally disagree with, because it defines itself as a religion as well is not our problem.

Secondly we must stop all further Muslim immigration. And remove European citizenship from any who are preaching hate etc. Lets drive them underground.

Third act is to strengthen the status of Europe as secular.

Fourth act is to remove all overseas funding from the mosques etc. in Europe. And do not allow any more! Block all external imams.

Fifth, make sure that any people leaving Islam are protected by the full weight of the law.

Sixth, develop a system to expose the core belief's of Islam so that more people leave it.

And most importantly apply the full weight of our societies to develop alternative energy sources.

Just across the road from my house is a house with Muslims, their son is handicapped and looked after by our state, I am proud of that, I don't want any thing to happen to these people, even though I may despise their backward belief's of hatred and intolerence, they are still people. I want them to die in bed of old age.

Posted by: Daffersd at March 24, 2005 11:43 AM

But can that bed be in the middle east?

If you aren't hoping for that at a minimum then you aren't really seeing them as the enemy and the carriers of your countries future doom.

Posted by: Borg at March 24, 2005 12:51 PM

Mr. Spencer & Mr. Fitzgerald-

What might be useful -as a sidebar on-going graphic- could be Mercator map of the globe showing the Islamic population increases in Western countries, turning blacker and blacker (like gangrenous toes?) as both unchecked immigrant influx and the 'born-invader' birthrate turn the lands of freedom into a Koranic Nightmare Zone.

Europe needs to understand who Charles Martel was.

Hollywood will never make a film about his success in stopping the original Islamic onslaught into Europe, but maybe Hirsi Ali and some of her Dutch film-making friends could produce such an 'instructional video'.

Europe is doomed if it remains unaware of its history.

And that Sharia Law will turn their topless beaches into headless hellholes.

Perhaps some Italian or German composer could produce an opera, parodying "The Marriage of Figaro", but utilizing the wedding of Mohammad to a little girl instead. Possibly entitled:

"The Arranged-Marriage of the elderly Prophet of Islam, Mohammad, to a 9 year old pre-adolescent child named Aisha".

(Handel's title "The Cuckoo and the Nightgale" would also seem to fit, as well, sadly.)

Where are the men of Europe?

I hear some VERY courageous women (Bat Ye'or, Orianna Fallaci, Hirsi Ali), but the guys all seem to be waiting for their testicles to descend.

Stay and fight for your homelands!

America (and Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc.) don't need those who are abandoning Western civilization in its moment of crisis, but allies who will hold the line.

Someone long ago said that if an anti-Nazi activist had simply pulled Adolf Hitler's pants down during the 1923 march of the Beerhall Putsch, and a photo of it had appeared in the national papers, Adolf would have become a pathetic laughingstock, thereafter hooted off the stage of German politics, and his psychopathic reign prevented.

Time to pull Mohammad's figurative pants down, Europe!

Expose the pedophile prophet!

Laugh him off the stage of the world.

Grow a set and swing them!

Posted by: BigSleep at March 24, 2005 4:57 PM

I feel for your dilemma Norwegian Kafir I myself being Canadian have for a long time seen my country and it's traditions eroded by our governments giving into all the changes that immigrants want. I am not against immigration mind you as I know what a great country Canada is and I know others feel that way too. That is why so many people come here from around the world. I just wonder if they feel we are such a great place why do they want to change it to make it more like the country they came from.
The politicians call it Multiculturalism. I believe that is just another term for give away what I can to get elected again.
Now Muslims are trying to introduce Sharia law into Ontario civil law and they are seriously considering it. Aslo the Canadian Radio and Television Commission (CRTC) is going to allow Muslim Television (Al-Jazeera) to broadcast here with very little monitoring. Also you have our federal politicians, like our past PM stating that there are no terrorists in Canada, burying their heads in the sand.
So it's not just Norway or other European countries but here in Canada as well where lifestyles and traditions are being destroyed. I too wonder what will happen to my children in this great country of ours and what type of country we will leave them.
Thank goodness for sites like this and Jihadwatch that we can let others know what is truely happening in our contries and around the world.

Posted by: First Knight at March 24, 2005 6:25 PM

We will hang together or we will hang separately. It is in all our interest that Europe does not go "quietly into the night". And while I am on the subject... all the America hatred needs to go too.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at March 24, 2005 7:52 PM

Norwegian Kafir. I do like your posts. I fear mightily for my grandchildren, the portends of fundamentalism are awesome. I refuse to say Islamic fundamentalism, because the phrase is redundant. Islam is by definition fundamentalistic, and cannot be otherwise unless a new consciousness completely scraps Shari'a, the Sira and Sunna, and subjects the Qur'an to the same introspection and enlightment that Judaism and Christianity went through.

But America itself is on the verge of a version of Islamism, albeit in Christian guise, in the name of "family values" (Islam is the very epitomy of "family values" for those who worship and long for such a thing, nowhere is family values more enshrined than in Iran, Saudi Arabia or any Islamic country.

On this side of the ocean there is a Calvinistic revival, it goes by a number of names including Dominion Theology and Christian Reconstructionism, and it has poked its head under the tents of protestant sects and movements, such as Eagle Forum, American Enterprise Institute, people are Reconstructionists these days without knowing it. It's umbrella is the Council for National Policy and like Islam, it espouses strict interpretation and enforcement of Mosaic Laws, which includes the death penalty (stoning preferred) for adultery, homosexuals, apostasy, even juvenile delinquents and kids who talk back to their parents. I'm not kidding, I have a whole file of quotes and speeches of prominent Reconstructionists who now pose as "libertarians", because they are anti (secular) state.

Here is just one website that explains, you can google many more (Dominion Theology, Christian Reconstruction or even Christian NAZI's) Dominon Theology

As a social liberal, a free thinker who many would call atheist, and with admittedly some anti corporate, anti transnational bias, I could be categorized as "left", but I refuse to because although there are issues
in which I agree with the left, there are many more in which I disagree (for instance I am also vehemently anti Marxist - did you know that Marx was a free trader, that the Great Soviet Encyclopedia claimed Adam Smith as the father of Marx - and explains, validly, why they did so).

But I am also, instinctively and by nature conservative, and highly value the western civilization that is the
inheritance of Judeo Christianity (but is not the result of Judeo Christianity, because Judeo Christianity was
humanized by the enlightment - the last victim of the inquisition was claimed in 1821, and Calvinism is every bit as bad as Islamism).

Borg: Thanks for the info, I didn't know that the BBC and Newsweek International were controlled by Muslims, but counter balance that with the fact that Sky News, London Times and Fox are controlled by Rupert Murdoch (a Jew, a neo con and a Blair - Bush supporter).

How can you separate the religion from the people who practice it? A modern day inquisition - convert, leave or else.

Conversion is not the answer, ever hear of Morisco's (Moors who "converted" to Christianity in Spain, but continued to be Muslims, or Marranos, the Jews who feigned conversion after the 1492 expulsion edict.

The problem is not swapping religions or feigning a swap, but rational minds and enlightment of all, that all religions are the work of men, to control other men, by colonizing and controlling their mind. What Muhammad did to the Arabs, the fathers of the tribes once known as Habiru or Juth did to their people, and Constantine did to the Romans and his subjects.

All we will have is a non stop, ruthless, and bloody religious wars, fed and fueled by demigogues (politicans and religious clerics) who use "faith" as a means for gaining and retaining socioeconomic power and prestige.

Daffersd says:

First of all we have to make sure that Europeans understand the threat, though how to do this in such a PC nightmare completely escapes me.

Islam is a political movement and system of governance, this is the only way I can see that we can get out of the PC mess, when hit with attacks of racism, or blasphamy hit back that it is our right to debate and be against a system of government that we fundementally disagree with, because it defines itself as a religion as well is not our problem.

Secondly we must stop all further Muslim immigration. And remove European citizenship from any who are preaching hate etc. Lets drive them underground.

Third act is to strengthen the status of Europe as secular.

Fourth act is to remove all overseas funding from the mosques etc. in Europe. And do not allow any more! Block all external imams.

Fifth, make sure that any people leaving Islam are protected by the full weight of the law.

Sixth, develop a system to expose the core belief's of Islam so that more people leave it.

And most importantly apply the full weight of our societies to develop alternative energy sources.

I agree with all of that, especially Item 6, alternative energy and energy independence, which means Americans will have to give up their love affair with gas hogs, and be willing to spend money on mass transit and energy efficient homes and transportation.. which will also mean more (not less) government regulation and spending.

Take it from me, the DoD (DARPA leading the way) has at it's fingertip and uses "energy efficient" technology, in fact DoD has first call on any patents proferred, and then classifies them for "national Security" purposes.

First Knight says

Now Muslims are trying to introduce Sharia law into Ontario civil law and they are seriously considering it. Aslo the Canadian Radio and Television Commission (CRTC) is going to allow Muslim Television (Al-Jazeera) to broadcast here with very little monitoring. Also you have our federal politicians, like our past PM stating that there are no terrorists in Canada, burying their heads in the sand. So it's not just Norway or other European countries but here in Canada as well where lifestyles and traditions are being destroyed. I too wonder what will happen to my children in this great country of ours and what type of country we will leave them.

You almost put your finger on something. Look south of the border at the US and take a gander at the "culture war" being waged by Christians, who wish to break down the wall seperating church and state, proclaiming the US is a Christian Nation (forgetting that there are millions of Sikhs, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, et al within), They use their religion calling it "family values" or "pro life" to interfere in the civil order and remake America in their own theocratic image.

Well if the Christians can do it, then so can the Muslims, in fact it is the Christians that have opened pandora's box and let fly the evil djinns of Islam.

Strange, I use to consider myself multi cultural, that is respecting the cultures of other peoples, that is until
I learned (through reading and questioning) that the cultures I respected had no respect for mine.

What goes around comes around. Karma. In simple terms if a "culture" does not respect the rights and dignity of the OTHER, then it has no rights and dignity of it's own to demand. If it doesn't grant free speech, then it cannot demand free speech in return.

Neither Christian, Muslim or Jew or Hindu can demand that which they don't grant to others.. the only solution as I see it is a civil society based on constitution, completely devoid of religion or references to such, and precluding any changes or amendments that will recognize, honor, or allow a religion to be used
to rationalize and justify laws... such as the recent Schiavo case, or the anti abortion case, or the anti gay
legislation and amendments, otherwise there will be no difference between the US and Iran save for the
name of their god, and the rituals associated with worshipping that god.. which are in the scheme of things for a free thinker... totally irrelevant.

Obstinacy and martyrdom for the sake of a religon is a fools game, and not limited to Muslims (Judaism and Christianity have their own "saint's" and history of Martyrs, like the Martyrs of Cordova, who went out of their way to be martyred.

Wishful thinking aside Europe is indeed in it's death throes. There was a documentary (which will repeat again) on Link TV called
It was about Denmark, and although it skirted the origins of the issue (Muslim immigration) it did point out that within two generations the population of Denmark will be replaced. Another special on Link Tv from European Journal, discussed the Muslim problem of Europe. France is swamped, there are no go zones for police in France, Muslim enclaves which police will not enter, also noted in Kohlmann's Al-Qaida's Jihad in Europe, Muslim women protest (on deaf ears) about the abuse of women by Muslim men. The Netherlands is a lost cause, Germany is being taken over by Muslims (mostly Turks) who don't even bother to learn German and have no desire to integrate into the society. All over Europe these Muslims move into enclaves, where they can be born, live, work and die without bothering to learn the native language, go to Mosques and learn hatred of the west. These ingrates migrate from the destitution and poverty that is caused by their precious ideology, and then resent the people and culture that supports them with welfare and job opportunity.

But most incredible of all, you have Germany which in some place is running 20% unemployment, and yet they continue to import foreign (read Muslim) workers.

The very worst part is that Canada and Europe grant "asylum" to Jihadis (terrorists) which I did not really fathom or understand until I read Kohlman's book mentioned above.

Absolutely incredible, imagine wilfully exposing yourself to HIV.

And Tony Blair, as per my English correspondent, has been blackmailed and coopted by the Muslims, the usual British Sex scandal, supposedly they have some goods on him, probably pedophilic.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the same was true of the Bush family, there were rumors of Bush daddy and pedophilia, not to mention this item which has been hushed up by the so called "liberal media"

Gannongatge threatens to expose a huge GOP pedophile and male prostitution ring

A possible Bush Blair pedophile ring connection Bush Forgives a pedophile Convicted ENGLISH pedophile Rock Star Gary Glitter.

Ever hear of Operation Ore? George Bush, the CIA, Mind Control and Child Abuse

On January 28, 2003, amid the furor of the impending war with Iraq the British press briefly reported on Operation Ore, the most thorough and comprehensive police investigation of crimes against children before being squashed by the Blair government. Besides implicating Rock guitarist Peter Townsend of the Who, the report claimed that senior members of Tony Blair's government were being investigated for pedophilia and the "enjoyment" of child-sex pornography. With the investigation reaching to senior members of his Government, Blair declared a news blackout on the story.

Moreover, the British report was not the first such case reported. In fact, it followed on the heels of a report from Portugal. On November 27, 2002, the press reported a scandal of pedophile ring run from a state orphanage. The Guardian reported that the scandal threatened to engulf diplomats, media personalities and senior politicians. Photographs of senior government officials with young boys from Lisbon's Casa Pia orphanage were among the evidence. More shocking however, were the revelations that systematic sexual abuse of children at the home had allegedly been going on for more than 20 years and had been known to police and other authorities for most of that time.

On January 14, 2002, Insight Magazine reported the charges leveled by Ben Johnson against his employer Dyncorp, a major defense contractor. Johnson charged that officials and employees of Dyncorp were engaging in perverse, illegal and inhumane behavior and were purchasing illegal weapons, women, forged passports and participating in other immoral acts. Johnson had witnessed his supervisors and fellow employees buying 12- to 15-year-olds as sex slaves.

I have a long list of Labour and Conservative MP's, who have been involved in sex scandals in England.

Posted by: Giaour at March 24, 2005 8:14 PM

"Third act is to strengthen the status of Europe as secular."

I laugh when I read this. I laugh and laugh and laugh uncontrollably. A comment like this shows that many Europeans has learnt nothing.

The reason Europe is in this mess is BECAUSE of secularism. Separation of church and state is a positive thing - but in Europe it has meant a wholesale effort to rid the continent of it's Christian influence.

So what has happened?

It has created a vacuum where religion used to be - and Islam is rushing in to fill it. Look at the Europeans who are converting to Islam in droves!

It has created a culture of death - abortion, homosexuality, contraception, euthanasia, suicide - Europeans are not even reproducing anymore! Why? Because their culture has lost its soul, its spirit, its lifeforce.

In contrast to the ageing and dying Europeans, Islam is young and vibrant and expanding.

It is too late for Europeans to realise that religion - and in particular Islam - is stronger than secularism. This is a simple matter of demographics. Islam has won Europe already.

Posted by: cozrusader at March 24, 2005 8:36 PM

Cozrusader-

Islam is hardly "young and vibrant and expanding".

Those are inherently positive qualities.

It is more 'tumorous and montonous and virulent'.

You could as easily call a newly mutated poultry influenza "young and vibrant and expanding".

But the result could be a 1918-ish global pandemic. Killing more people than WW I's battles.

This type of dogmatic mind-control can sweep over the un-formed intellects of children and young people like a plague, especially when the "secular" knack for skepticism is forbidden-which was the only thing that finally ended the equally tyrannical 'sacred' bigotry, terror and madness of the Religious Wars of the West. A vicious shadow on the human spirit that 'Christian' sects wallowed through, soaked in witches' blood and speckled with the ashes of martyrs to knowledge like Giordano Bruno. Killed by the religious leadership of his day for speculating that perhaps there was life on other worlds. (The secular nerve!)

Europe needs to gather up its will and strength to battle FOR FREEDOM. Of conscience. Speech. Belief. Not merely to fight 'divine' intolerence with a mirror.

Christianity at least has a 'Prince of Peace', and 'The Beautitudes' to humble and humanize its inherent 'religious' tendency toward the failing of arrogance that 'absolute certainty' slouches toward. The Reformation and Enlightment worked wonders on the maniacal dogmatic darkness that WAS the earlier "Christian' era.

Islam, however, has a 'pedophile warlord' at its core -who stole the worst of the Old Testament, mouthed a few pretty words about compassion ('for Muslims only', naturally, -which renders the true meaning of the word "fellow feeling" absurd) and wants to conquer the world and force all people into Muslo-think.

Secularism is there to restrain the excesses of the religious fanatics, not to replace the natural spiritual urge in us which seeks to fathom the 'Given Mystery'.

THAT folly of 'replacement' may have happened more in Europe than America, thanks to the sour taste left by ages of cruel theocracies, and also by the crude 'solutions' of communism, socialism & fascism used to uproot the 'divine right of kings'.

We need humility from all sides.

But strength to confront those who insist that their 'humility' is the ONLY brand allowed:

Submission to slavery.

The Perect Answer, from the lips of the Perfect man, Mohammad. (Marry-er of 9 year olds.)

It sounds divine to the naive. From The Cashabh to Jakarta. It answers ALL questions. It endows the simpleton with hypnotically uncanny energy. Called "God's inspiration".

But, "by their fruits" is a good rule.

The 'produce' of Islam?

Bloodfruit.

Posted by: BigSleep at March 24, 2005 9:56 PM