Notice how Yahoo! put this story in the "Oddly Enough" section.

Posted by: Norwegian kafir at March 29, 2005 8:20 AM

Turkey has a very different political culture to western nations, the best way to describe it simply is immature.

Although there is mostly freedom of speech, there are totally taboo areas, and the nations education system is blatant brainwashing. For this reason political arguments are often no more than slogan shouting.

The governments comment are better understood in this context, reinforcing long upheld state propaganda. There is more than an element of truth, in that the Ottomans actually invited Jews from Europe, where they were being persecuted. It of course ignores the fact that over 500 years of the empire's life time, attitudes can vary enormously.

On racism, Many Turks are racist without even realising it in many cases. (There is no PC anti Racism lobby) The attitude of a proportion towards Kurds for example is no different from that of German Neo-Nazis towards Turks in Germany.

....Political analysts say "Mein Kampf" probably reflects rising nationalism and anti-American sentiment rather than anti-Semitism or specific support for Hitler and his ideas......

In my opinion this is true. There is a section of the Islamic movement that is very anti-semitic, but that is not the mainstream. Since the invasion of Iraq, attitudes toward the USA have changed a lot, most markedly in the political mainstream and among nationalists.

....Anti-Semitism has traditionally been weak in Turkey, a Muslim but secular country that has forged close security ties with Israel in recent years......

Ties with Israel are weakening, as the Islamist Government wants stronger ties with other Muslim nations. It was always a marriage of convienience for Turkey, but did reflect a lack of widespread active anti-semitism. These ties have been critisised by Islamic newspapers since the beginning.

This is a trend that will pass. Already with the successful elections in Iraq, I think opinions are changing. If we could stop those terrorists murdering Turkish truck drivers, Turkey would gain enormously from reconstruction, which would make the USA popular all over again.

Posted by: EU Serf at March 29, 2005 9:55 AM

"Many Turks are worried their country is having to make too many concessions to the European Union as it prepares for the start of long-delayed entry talks later this year."

Too many concessions, yeah. Like respecting human rights, women's equality, and the rights of religious minorities (insofar as there are any such minorities left...). Criminalizing honor killings. Almost recognizing the existence of the EU member state Cyprus, although not quite. Isn't it obvious that all of this is far too much to ask of the great Turkish nation? How could they possibly tolerate such imperialist demands without seeking consolation from the great wisdom of the father of Authentic Nations, Hitler? Some member states even want them to recognize, maybe downright regret the Armenian genocide. Well, that at least is a reason to take out a copy of MK and learn how to deal with these imperialist Zionist bastards...

Posted by: Scandie at March 29, 2005 10:04 AM

The weak love revenge fantasies. Hitler is the ultimate in that neurotic trend. Turks feel neglected (they proudly denied the U.S. and its coalition allies access to their border to cross into Iraq at the beginning of the invasion, and we merely went around them), left-behind (Ottoman Empire anyone?), ignored ('what a stupid name for a country' is what most in the U.S. think), and powerless ('please America, sell us F-16's!'), so anything that gives them that much-needed ego-boost is welcome.... and hating the more powerful is a tonic. Especially if it is involved in vilifying and crushing those mythic, all-powerful controllers of everything "The Jews". Seeing them getting their "come-uppance", as they sure got during the Holocaust, is a cheering manna from hell for the jihadi wannabe's.

I trust the whole country about as far as I can spit a sheep's eyeball.

Posted by: BigSleep at March 29, 2005 10:35 AM

The refusal to allow the American government to use an American airbase for which a large rent is paid, the attacks by important members of the Turkish government or Parliament decrying the Americans in Iraq as "worse than the Nazis," the acceptance of Arab propaganda about the "Palestinian people" which the Turks, who controlled the relevant territory, know perfectly well is a convenient political fiction designed to disguise the relentless Arab Jihad against Israel as merely a matter of "two tiny peoples," and "compromise," and "adjustment of borders" (all nonsense, all misunderstood by those who wish to misunderstand),the inability of the Turkish secularists to properly defend aginst the ruthlessness and guile employed by the Islamic forces in Turkey that are busy throwing off the constraints on Islam that Ataturk had so carefully constructed and deployed -- all of this should cause a few grim conclusions to be drawn in Washington.

To wit:

1) Islam is permanent, Kemalism transient. Islam will always be a threat, as long as it has not been so discredited, so weakened, so tied down, that it cannot again escape from its box.

The lesson of Turkey is that eternal vigilance on behalf of secularism is necessary, and those who have been the beneficiaries of such secularism are foolish not to recognize that it occasionally requires military force (that of the Turkish Army) and constant reinforcement of legal measures taken against the outward expression of Islam as a political and social force, to keep Islam in its place, since it cannot otherwise be dealt with or transmogrified into something less menacing.

2) The Cold War led to some assumptions about Islam which were false. The Americans did not know anything about Islam (and still that government knows very little). But they knew that Islam was incompatible with Communism, and that was good enough for them. They knew that the Turks they were likely to meet, the members of the Defense Ministry in Ankara, were stout fellows, secular, just the kind you could trust. In the same way, they "knew" that Iraq under "strongman" (that was his heroic epithet, until his mutilated corpse was dragged through the streets of Baghdad following the 1958 coup) Nuri al-Said, or Nuri Pasha, would stoutly be on "our" side and was therefore a linchpin in that ill-conceived CENTO (which died a natural death after that 1958 coup). They "knew" that the Shah was Our Man in Teheran, a "pillar of stability" (as Jimmy Carter called him, in making a toast to his regime). They "knew" that those Sandhurst-educated, ramrod-straight, delightly, almost Terry-Thomasly mustachioed Pakistani generals were, like those Turkish generals, "our sort," and could be trusted to help us in the world-wide Campaign Against Communism, and so much more trustworthy than those slithery Indian lefitsts, with that Krishna Menon, and that pious Fabian-tainted Jawaharlal Nehru, still smelling of bouquets of flowers that bedecked him at Bandung.

And every single time the Americans have made an investment in a Muslim country, a Muslim regime, the good faith of Muslim people, the permanence and the unhindered use of a military base put up at great expense, by the Americans, they have been disappointed. The Moroccan base, the Wheelus Air Base outside Tripoli, the bases in Saudi Arabia -- all gone, or going. The hopes for permanent bases in Iraq, in Kuwait, in Qatar are the fantasies of people who would save themselves a lot of time, and the taxpayers a lot of money, and the Infidel world a lot of heartache, if they only realized this.

It is too late to do what should and could have been done back in 1978 -- demanding that Sadat allow America to stay in the Sinai, both to guarantee the peace and to take over those Israeli-built airbases in a region smack dab in the center of the MIddle East, yet largely unpopulated by hostile locals (and with friendly Israelis nearby for R and R, and medical care, and supplies). It is not too late to figure out that wherever there is Islam, sooner or later there will always be hostility to Infidels, and the more powerful those Infidels, the more unwilling those Infidels are to bend to the dictates of Islam, the more hostility there will be.

3) The lesson of Turkey should be applied to Iran. Within a year, or two, or three, it is possible that the hideous Islamic Republic of Iran will fall. And it will be followed by a government reflecting the widespread disgust, in Iran, with Islam as a political force, and even with Islam, period. There may be those who will publicly embrace Zoroastrianism, not out of deep belief but out of a desire to be something, anything, other than Muslim -- and why not the original, pre-Islamic belief that has the sheen of Persian history about it, in the same way that Firdowsi is treated as a nationalist hero for helping, linguistically, to prevent the arabization of Iran and the disappearance of Farsi.

But again, no one should assume that Iran is permanently de-Islamized. Islam will come back, inevitably. And that is why Iran must, whether or not it seems to favor Islam, has to have its nuclear project removed -- because Islam is a permanent threat to Infidels, and no country, with a history of Islamic rule, can be trusted to have permanently put paid to Islam. In Turkey, after 80 years of a systematic attempt to constrain and weaken Islam, Muslim attitudes toward non-Muslims have come back, in a big way. That is the assumption that Infidels must make about Iran as well.

In other words, there can not be any let up in wariness, no let up in what should be a relentless and imaginative campaign to exploit all fissures, all internecine warfare, all resentments, within dar al-Islam. Jihadists have carefuly exploited such pre-existing mental conditions as antisemitism and anti-Americanism,not least to split asunder the two parts of the West -- Europe and America.

Two can play that game. But the Infidel side has not even begun. If it had, it would be using Iraq as a point to exploit the Sunni-Shi'a fissure, instead of attempting, crazily, to patch things up and make sure the Shi'a do not respond. And Iraq is the perfect place as well, by promoting an independent Kurdistan, to begin to let other non-Arab Muslims (such as Berbers in North Africa) begin to have hope that the Arab supremacist ideology within Islam can, in fact, be overcome.

These are both worth pursuing. But the spirit of geopolitics, grand strategy, the kind of thing that would have been obvious to any schoolboy in the age of Alfred Thayer Mahan or Sir Halford Mackinder, is now regarded as unseemly, not the kind of thing nice graduate students taking solemn seminars in "International Relations" at the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, or the Georgetown Foreign Service Institute, or the Johns Hopkins Center for International whateveritis, are likely to do -- it smacks of Olden Days, and wallmaps with pins on them, and mad generals and crazed strategists, when we all know that the world has changed utterly, and we all need to find ways of Getting to Yes, in the time-honored manner of -- oh, I don't know, Roger Fisher or Tariq Ramadan or Rodney King or Kofi Annan or the "International Community" or Easter Bunny, it hardly matters.

Why not?

Posted by: Hugh at March 29, 2005 4:28 PM

Prescient comments, Hugh. Extraordinary.

Posted by: Richard at March 29, 2005 9:43 PM

BigSleep and EU Serf have it right. I have lived in Turkey for several years examining ways to realize the potential that I notice here. This is a nation of "children" --- of all ages. To their credit, Turkish citizens are friendly, love to sing and dance and can size up the value of one's character accurately and almost instantaneously, like a child. They waste time, are irresponsible, terrible with money, excuse-makers ("This is Turkey" covers any reason NOT to take action, and any mishap) and seemingly cannot think past today. They let their emotions rule them. They want to be taken care of rather than take responsibility. They avoid emotionally unpleasant situations like the plague. They do not value individual, independent thought and could not care less about anyone they either do not know or think could not benefit them or ever have "over" them. They liked Clinton (a developmentally challenged "child") and dislike GW Bush (a mature, responsible adult who values accountability). They do not read (books) and, as most of the Internet is not in Turkish, are ignorant of so much that could help them. Every one of them? No, but a still- critcal mass.

Turks are suspicious. They refuse to believe, for example, that the USA is sacrificing for people groups that they do not live anywhere near (Afghanistan, Iraq, presently). The prime minister and the foerign minister both asked them to stop being so stingy and give more to help the tsunami victims (fellow Mohammedans by the way). They think that oil is the ONLY possible reason that the coalition went into Iraq. Freedom and hope for the oppressed? No, More security for the world? No. For children, only one reason "computes".

A well-known Turkish proverb is "If the snake does not bite ME, may it live 1000 years". (Emphasis mine, perhaps.) That is markedly different from the Western heritage of "Love thy neighbor".

Another is: "The resources of the state are as the sea; he who does not take from it is a pig". A pig is about as low as you can get for a Mohammedan. When I asked a Western-educated, Turkish proverb collector/translator/author to explain the latter, saying that it sounded like a very clear path(ology) to economic crises to me, he said that this saying reflected what the criminal element would think, not the general populace and that's why it was in the crime section of his book. Uh-huh. And the estimated 50% black market?

As for EU membership, doesn't anyone read maps any more?! Giscard D'Estaing is correct: Turkey is NOT a European country. And that is NOT an insult. All the better for Turks to realize this FACT before it's too late. The former democracies of Europe have already signed away their sovereignities.

Once Turks realize that EU membership would require the same of them, their somewhat unrealistic but strong nationalist pride could save their independence. Once they realize that their taxes will go much higher, they might revolt but given ubiquitous passivity, it's an iffy propostion.

Many sorely-needed corrections are happening as a result of Turks' thirst for affirmation by and the subsidies from Western (rich) Europe. While there has been freedom of worship, non-Mohammedans have been restricted from, for example expanding the buldings they use, but there are many under-used mosques. Free maybe, but not equal. My hope is that these reforms continue but that Turkey wises up and does not sign into the EU.

Turkish cultural idols include Ataturk (is it still illegal to say anything negative about him?) football (watching, NOT getting the actual exercise themselves), tobacco (80% of the men, 20% of the women, smoke), their (male) children (whom they love more than their spouses), but especially money (whether or not they think that they have it). It is the last that they want from Europe. They are not mindful of how high a price they might have to pay for it.

They claim poverty while maintaining a bloated military which commands much of the best property in the nation (as officers' clubs), and an energy-defying "Social security" take-and-give- away program, takng part in corruption, and buying cigarettes, alcohol, lotto tickets and whores' services (legal in this "Moslem" country).

The best (state) university in the nation teaches all of its courses in English, has the best students and very well-qualified teachers of the world's most important language (English) in its sizeable preparatory department. Yet this university pays a mere 770 YTL per month to its full-time Turkish citizen teachers! (Rents in its city ar at least 600 YTL for a small decent, 2 bedroom place.) Part-time pay is only 7 YTL per class hour! Given that, how can one believe that Turkey is serious about joining the West (where the lingua france is Engilsh)?!

Turkey needs a series of strong reality checks. Turks think that they are clever but they shoot themselves in the feet at every turn. They are myopic, sentimental, feckless --- and the bright among them admit it! And they wonder why there has not been more foreign investment!

So why do I live here?! There are so many people to help, there is so much improvement to be made --- and it can be a delightful place for those who do not have to rely on the insufficient virtue
of the natives.

Posted by: Fayda at March 30, 2005 5:28 PM

Robert do you have a link to Boston's information?
Someone has got to refute Finkelstein, he's as dangerous as the Jihadists, and this piece of information is very interesting stuff.
Mike

Posted by: Mike_Nargizian at March 30, 2005 10:57 PM

All that comes up in an Amazon search for Adolf Boehm is this -

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Adolf%20Boehm/104-1843281-0898363

Posted by: Mike_Nargizian at March 30, 2005 10:59 PM