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Al-Muhajiroun in New York. "Defending Terrorism: Interview with Kristine Withers," from the Global Politician, with thanks to Nicolei:
Kristine Withers claims to have been assaulted by the Islamic Thinkers' Society, a group she says is likely tied to Al-Muhajiroun, which is a radical Islamic group that is believed to have worked with Al-Qaeda. The following is our conversation about ongoing threats to her from the group, and charges that have been brought against her by the group.Ryan Mauro: First of all, Kristine, what got you involved in looking at the activities of these Islamic protesters you are warning about?
Kristine Withers: I noticed a group of Muslim men, demonstrating against the War on Terror and advocating the pro-fundamentalist Islam view, about 6 months after 9/11/01. I could not help notice them because they were demonstrating a block from me, which is also a busy commercial area for the Islamic-Hindu merchants, in an area I frequent because of the stores and transportation (to get to the subway). They had signs showing the 9/11 tragedy and were handing out brochures advocating fundamentalist Islamic. Upon research, based upon their literature, I found out they were connected with the Al-Muhajiroun group. At that time their brochure contained web links to that fundamentalist websites. I notified the NYPD anti terrorist taskforce, and this group disappeared.
Then around late May of 2003 I noticed the same people were out demonstrating again in the same area. They also knew who I was. I again notified the NYPD, and was told they had a permit. I went to my councilmen, and was ignored. Little by little their space grew with more and more signs, Television and stereo equipment. The crowds around them started to grow. I observed them to gain more information, but that let to verbal sparring with them. I admit it was a bad tactic, but I was genuinely offended that the people that were declaring war against my country, and western civilization, were there to recruit potential terrorist.
RM: Can you describe how you've been threatened and in your view, treated unfairly?
KW: My friend and I were walking our dogs, when we heard some loud voices. As we walked the voices became clearer, then we saw the a group of Islamic men demonstration. They had a loud amplifiers, they were about 3 feet tall, that was blaring out something in Arabic. The reason this caught my attention was because the week before, when I spoke to my State Senator, he informed me that they were not permitted to have sound equipment. I gave my dogs to my friend so she could take them home. I crossed the street to call the police, then I went over to the group, to inform them that I believed they were overstepping their permit, because of the sound system and because they were on both sides of the street. As I crossed to them, I observed their placards on the street (typical al-Muhajiroun stuff : US the real terrorist, oppose the war on terror, God hates the US because they have Homosexuals, restoration of the Caliphate, pictures of Abu Gharab, 9/11 pictures saying it was justified, etc..) Anyway I knocked down one of the signs, (the unaltered abu Gharab pictures, which showed naked people), next thing I know I was engaged in a verbal yelling match with them, they started threatening me and knocked me down. During this period (approx.. 20 mins before the police arrived) I turned down the rest of the signs, and held off a growing angry crowd of mad Muslims. They were telling me how wicked America and I was. A member of the group was also telling me, "we will kill you", and "next time we will get all of NYC". A man punched me in the face, knocking of my glasses. These were not just a group of individuals. These people (that started the demonstration) were men in their 20's who were radicalized, mostly from the Mid-East, who were controlled by one elder man. They had great discipline that you would not see in just a mob. They were also videotaping this whole incident, with the elder man shouting "film this, it will get us more recruits." Any way the police came finally. After a few minutes finding out about the incident, they took me away alone. This even after I informed them that I was assaulted, a fact which was verified by a few witnesses. When I asked the officer why they did not bring the people who assaulted me in, I was told that "since 9/11 we have to bend over backwards for them."
Since that incident I have had other run-ins with them, been assaulted and threatened, but each time the police take me away.
RM: What group was behind the protests and what leads you to suspect them of being tied to radical Islamists?
KW: The group calls itself the The Islamic Thinkers Society. They fly the Al-Muhajiroun, and use Al-Muhajiroun tracts.
RM: And what is so significant about their ties to Al-Muhajiroun?
KW: Al-Muhajiroun is a group which advocates the control of society based on the rule of a Universal Caliphate, and ruled by Islamic law, the shiara. As a member said "we do not seek to coexist with other religions in America, we seek to dominate them". They want to see Islamic rule imposed worldwide. In their propaganda they portray Islam as an ideology, and an alternative to Democracy. They advocate the advancement of their goal by violence and terrorism. One of their members were a part of the team that conducted the 9/11 attacks. They also advocate the self imposition of Sharia in neighborhoods where they are the majority....Another reason that I find Al-Muhajiroun
dangerous is their ability to recruit new adherents, especially among the youth whom they aim their recruitment at. They accomplish this by knowing how to manipulate the system, and take advantage of political correctness. This allows them to recruit openly, while they form a core of true believers in their closed meetings to be used for their Jihad.RM: Can you explain the reaction of law enforcement to your information?
KW: I cannot explain the reaction of the police, which is what I would describe as apathy and fear. I cannot explain why they would allow a group, which has links to groups which killed fellow officers, to recruit and propagandize our enemies cause. The only logical reasons, in my opinion, would be one of three. First: fear of lawsuits. This precinct (the 115th) was almost sued by a group of Muslims, because they treated the Koran with disrespect when they arrested illegal vendors. Second: political correctness....Three: Political and Police graft. The local politician, Helen Sears, is beholding to the large indo/Muslim merchants, who are represented by the Jackson Heights Merchants Association. Either way it must be seen as corruption or incompetence. This group has such a clear connection with terrorist groups that to allow them to recruit and operate is clearly collusion. This is especially surprising from the NYPD which experienced an attack by these people....They are trying to spread their Islamic Fundamentalist propaganda, as well as recruit members. They use the cover of religious tolerance to spread their political message....
Read it all.
Posted by Robert at March 29, 2005 7:48 AM
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Gotta admire the sheer gut and tenacity of this wonderful woman - Kristine Withers.
A backlash is inevitable, America isn't gonna give in w/o a fight. The longer this backlash is denied, postponed and hemmed in, the worse it will be.
Posted by: voletti![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at March 29, 2005 8:19 AM
"Kristine Withers claims to have been assaulted by the Islamic Thinkers' Society..."
Ha! What a joke! Islamic Thinkers?
The only thing muslims mull is what Muhammad dictated to them.
All else is apostasy.
Posted by: Degenerated Matter at March 29, 2005 9:02 AM
Great. My neighborhood, Historic (Hysteric) Jackson Heights, in the news. First it was the Colombian cartels back in the '80's, with many drug murders occurring on the streets (the most infamous being the assassination of Manuel de Dios Unanue, a publisher of articles on the Cartels in his magazines, being shot in the head in a Spanish bar). Now islamic militants are allowed to strut their stuff, freely, a few short years after 9/11. Queens DA Richard Brown should have his PC head examined. The 74th St-37th Ave area on Friday night is akin to a war zone, a war zone where Americans in America are at risk, thanks to all the PC/multi-culti bullsh*t.
Posted by: Rick at March 29, 2005 9:04 AM
"then we saw the a group of Islamic men demonstration. They had a loud amplifiers, they were about 3 feet tall"
So, how tall were the loud ampliphiers?
Posted by: DCWatson at March 29, 2005 9:24 AM
The words of President Bush ring in my head as I read this article " Either your with them or against them" And yet here they are(the enemy within) openly walking the streets of the city that was supposively awakened after the horrific attack on 9-11. They are openly trying to recruit converts for more jihad activities without displaying any effort of concealment. Is it corruption by politicians ? Is it fear of being sued for antisemitism? Has the politically correct Ideology frozen us to our seats? The vision of this little woman confronting these people head on and no one else there to stand against this with her in authority is almost overwhelming . Can you see the political cartoon here with her confronting these American haters while the police stand shuttering across the street fearing lawsuits if they confront them--- --I TELL YOU IT'S CRAZY!!
Posted by: Mackie at March 29, 2005 9:43 AM
Ms. Withers needs to get a videographer of her own to start filming one of these encounters, beginning to end, shooting from some unobtrusive distance so the yelling cretins don't notice that they are on Candid Camera. Then get it on the NYC evening news.
This also seems to be a perfect subject for a documentary film-maker. With a title something like: "Pissing on Ground Zero", perhaps. Michael Moore would turn it into a paen for the "poor down-trodden Muslim street preachers who are justified in hating the West", so if there is a polar opposite of this rotund propagandist, let them help K. Withers. Surely there's one in NYC with a camera and who doesn't want to see the graves of 3,000 neighbors spat upon by the enemy within.
Fight images with images.
Bypass the layer of indifferent cops and the political p.c. officer-holding crowd -and their pathetic denial- and go to the news, which love a good, filmed confrontation.
Such a documentary could also start by showing the gruesome images from 9/11 that Michael Moore censored out of his "Farenheit" film (people jumping hand-in-hand out of the 103rd story of the WTC towers, ad nauseam). He went to a black screen so as not to re-enrage people in the audience or remind them why we were ready to fight radical Islam. It seems that New Yorkers are already suffering from amnesia. Show the censored horrors, then expose what is happening today with the Jihadist Jr. worms infecting the Big Apple.
Maybe Dan Rathers could get on it? (He's looking for a career rehabilitation angle, and a patriotic mea culpa couldn't hurt.)
May this brave lady get a second-hand bullet proof vest on ebay and keep up the good work!
My heartfelt wishes are with her.
TO DC WATSON-
LOL!
I thought the same thing.
3 feet tall! Muslim trolls, indeed!
at March 29, 2005 10:14 AM
When will this story appear in major newspapers?What national radio program will interview Kristine Withers? [After this article at Jihadwatch, one hope invitations will come in]. When will police forces, instead of hiring CAIR to conduct "sensitivity training workshops," circulate the story of Kristine Withers as an example of how the police should not behave? When will the presence of large numbers of Muslims, "moderate" or "immoderate," be seen as having created a situation that is far more unpleasant, difficult, expensive, and dangerous for all non-Muslims, wherever in the Western or Infidel world those Muslims may be?
Posted by: Hugh at March 29, 2005 10:18 AM
I did send the article to Bill Oreilly this morning.
Posted by: Mackie at March 29, 2005 11:10 AM
You know a person could get discouraged about this muslim thing. When a woman is attacked on the street of HER homeland by interlopers and nothing is done about it, can you imagine this happening during WWII? Nazis would have been rounded up and probably shot. What has happened to the spirit of freedom and the rebellion of the founding fathers?
Posted by: Carolyn2 at March 29, 2005 11:24 AM
Folks, this link tells the story of our efforts on the border with Mexico being beefed up (finally). The Government has heard from the American people and now is doing what it should've done long ago with illegal aliens.
The same can be done about some of these Islamic imbeciles that embarrass their community and berate the US on American streets. Keep making noise. Complain to the Government representatives in your area or district.
Immigration is one thing. Immigration of offensive racist illiterate bigots is quite another. Let them know that you're tired of appeasing this cult of haters. Remind them who put them into office, and who can vote them out.
Posted by: Prickzilla at March 29, 2005 11:27 AM
Check out this website regarding the Kristine Withers story by Ryan Mauro.
There are some photographs of the signs that were being carried up in Jackson Heights by the group "Islamic Thinkers".
Posted by: Mackie at March 29, 2005 11:27 AM
This story really sickens and angers me. Robert, what can we do to support this woman and undermine her attackers?
f.g.
Posted by: f.g. at March 29, 2005 11:48 AM
This looks like them.
http://www.islamicfinder.org/getitWorld.php?id=40696&lang=
Posted by: f.g. at March 29, 2005 11:52 AM
Next time go out and get some 4-foot loudspeakers and blast this at them:
http://www.terrorists-suck.org/fight/winds_of_jihad.html
Posted by: Terminator at March 29, 2005 2:14 PM
It's a "No win" situation,in Canada we had the Air india bombing of a 747 by Sikh militants
that promoted in public the demand for a Sikh State,331 people(around 60 were kids)were blown out of the sky at 35,000 feet doing about 500mph
in a near zero oxygen/30 below zero atmosphere.
The bombs were loaded on two plans but a flight
delay in japan cause two baggage handlers to be kill at Norita Airport during a stop to transfer some passengers.
I point this out for a good reason,the Canadian security forces had some knowledge
of the plot but feared a label of "Racism" if they acted too early and arrested Sikhs for a alleged crime they were about to commit,that was 20 years ago and things haven't changed but the new fear is "Islamophobia" if a Muslims is arrested on the fear he MIGHT do Jihad for Al-Qaeda or Allah. When a Sikh attacked a police officer during a protest in Toronto over the Amistar temple raid the man was in court for his trial and another Sikh in the room pulled out a gun a shot the man for being a "Bad" Sikh,he quickly fled to a waiting car a drove off while the injured man was being tended to first.
When police "Profiled" drivers to look for a dark skined male in his 50's with a beard and turban that just shot someone(later he died from the damage to his organs) in the downtown area,the Sikhs that were stopped cried Racism and
flooded Politicians and the police with phone calls to the point that they were ordered to stop harassing innocent men that happen to wear turbans.
When the killer was never tracked down Sikhs
then claimed the police didn't do enough to arrest the man and now all Sikhs will suffer
the perception by others that they may be the killer.
Sound familiar,Ahmed Ressam plotted the LAX bombing while in Canada on welfare as a "Refugee" fleeing for his life in his Country,the millenium bomber was caught at Port Angeles WA with the bomb in the trunk of his rental car,our Government claimed they were watching him but he didn't brake the law so they couldn't violate his rights by arresting him.
Remember the Khadr Klan that's buddy buddies with Al-Qeada and praised the 9/11 hijackers that also slaughtered 24 Canadains,well they're back in Canada and they are "Being watched" for security reasons( translation : we can't do anything because CAIR will scream Racism and Islamophobia)and haven't broken any laws in Canada.
Out of 5 Muslims being detained on security certificates,4 are non-Citizens and one is Muhammed Khwaja from Ottawa(same area as the islamic school teaching Jihad) that has now been
proven to have a link to the London transit(Tube) bombing plot,the other four consist of three with direct links to terrorism or terrorist groups,and YES CAIR protested these detaining of innocent Muslims caught up in the post-9/11 era of "Islamophobia".
When Muhammad Elmasry spoke at a public hearing by our Government that wanted input and arguements about the change to our immigration
laws that try to protect citizens for terrorists,Elmasry is quoted as telling them that the anti-terrorism changes to the Bill amounts to "terrorism" by the Canadian Government to all Muslims based on their religion.
Elamsry's says the same thing about Israel and I wonder if a pathetic old man like him wants to die a hero that faught the infidel oppressors in Canada and started the "Jihad" to get Justice and peace for Muslims in Canada just as Arafat did for Palestinians.
at March 29, 2005 2:48 PM
As late as 1940 or even 1941, the Bund of Fritz Kuhn managed to hold pro-Nazi rallies, even a famous one in Madison Square Garden, in the midst of New York City. But once the war came, all pro-Nazi activity ceased. Yorkville quited down. The FBI rounded up Kuhn and many others. Even those who were completely innocent but had relatives who were pro-Nazi, felt the sting -- ask the retired professor Peter Viereck, who fought in the war, about what effect his father the pro-Nazi George Sylvester Viereck had on his life. Japanese-Americans joined the army to prove themselves; if you go, as I did recently, to Fort Jackson in Columbia, South Carolina, and you visit the Fort Jackson Museum, and in the entry hall you look at the bound copies of Stars and Stripes from World War II, you will find articles about the 442nd, the lst or 2nd most decorated unit in the entire war -made up entirely of Japanese-Americans. There is no unit, and there never will be, of Muslim-Americans fighting for America against Muslim interests -- for Muslim loyalty must always be directed only to Islam. A handful of Muslims have fought in Iraq, but only a handful, and those have been primarily either Iraqis, who feel keenly the need to overthrow Saddam, or the odd Bangladeshi, or Pakistani, who may for one reason or another not have felt his Islam too fervently, or chose to emphasize that the American army was in fact helping Muslims (which, of course, happens to be true). But other Muslims -- the Marine deserter, the still-uncaught spy on a Navy ship, offering information to Muslims ashore, the Muslim soldier who threw grenades at his fellow soldiers who were Infidels, killing two and wounding many others, and the absurdly low rates of Muslm participation in the armed services (which, given worries over loyalties, is probably a good thing).
We are in the middle of a war, a war not like previous wars in that everyone wears a uniform, and not a war where the major means of overcoming the enemy is military force but rather, from the viewpoint of Muslims, to be accomplished primarily through Da'wa and demographic change within the Infidel countries that will weaken their resolve, inhibit them from taking necessary actions, and will delay the widespread recognition of the nature of the problem.
In the article above on Kristine Withers -- surely she deserves sympathetic attention and support from many quarters -- there is this:
"I find Al-Muhajiroun dangerous is their ability to recruit new adherents, especially among the youth whom they aim their recruitment at. They accomplish this by knowing how to manipulate the system, and take advantage of political correctness. This allows them to recruit openly, while they form a core of true believers in their closed meetings to be used for their Jihad."
and in the complete article Kristine Withers makes this observation:
"I believe that the police the police definitely have the right to investigate this group. This group is analogous to the Nazi's or Japanese recruiting fighters in NYC during WWII. This group calls, through its literature, for the overthrow of the government in favor of a Islamic state. They are trying to spread their Islamic Fundamentalist propaganda, as well as recruit members. They use the cover of religious tolerance to spread their political message."
In 1941, no one would have dared spread Nazi propaganda -- or if they did, they would have been picked up, and their families, their businesses, their friends all have suffered. In 2005, in the midst of violent Jihad, or of Jihad that is conducted by all means, including terrorism, those who support the Jihad remain, if not caught in the act of supporting through money or weapons or active participation, free to go out on the streets, free to conduct Da'wa in prisons and propaganda in schools, free to make life more dangerous for Kristine Withers.
This is because war has not been, and will not be, declared by this or any Administration. But at the very least,the terms of discussion have to change -- to come as close, asymptotically, as one can to mentioning, in official circles, that the enemy is prompted by the tenets of Islam, mainstream orthodox Islam.
Politicians have only to use their own assumed ingenuousness. If they declare that we are waging a "war of self-defense against the Jihad" this will still leave room for some Muslims to declare that of course they "do not believe in the Jihad" (no Believer can state that, but that's okay -- now the ball is in their court). Let us all pretend that we have nothing against "Islam" -- just those who want to "spread Islam until it covers the globe" through the Jihad and its many instruments." Anything wrong with that? Any one take offense?
On what basis?
Posted by: Hugh
at March 29, 2005 2:48 PM
So the Muslims hold up a sign saying God Hates America because it has homosexuals.
Looks like Gary, Kentim, kepha, paolo and the entire slate of the Christian Right have allies in Allah.
LOL.
Irony is that there is more homosexuality in Islam, because of its "family values" and consequently sexually repressive nature, and the seperation and taboos of the sexes.
For instance malls in Jeddah and Riyadh are infamous for cruising, because men can and do hold hands in public, while contact with women is forbidden. Saudi Gays Flaunt New Freedoms: ‘Straights Can’t Kiss in Public or Hold Hands Like Us’
And there is speculation (on valid grounds) that Arafat died of AIDS, and that John bin Walker had a Pakistani lover.
As I keep saying from the viewpoint of the areligious,a secularist, sometimes it is hard to distinguish between a Muslim and a Christian, in fact both are very strong on "family values", in that regard more in common than in difference.
And in fact the Calvinists, the Christian Reconstructionist or Dominon Theologists endorse stoning, burning and beheading for criminals, incorrigible youth, homosexuals, apostates, adulterers.
Sigh, how to choose sides in a religious war between two sets of ideologies that have near identical social policies?
BTW I'm with you Hugh, we are in the midst of a war. My problem is becoming clear, given that I'm an evil godless secularist, which side poses the most immediate threat to my free thinking, irrelegious,heretical, self sovereign ways?
Looks more like a case of Heads I lose, tails they win. I know that I'm on the muslim hit list, but apparently on the Christian right hit list as well.
Posted by: Giaour at March 29, 2005 4:03 PM
If this is what they do now,just imagine what they`ll do in a few short years when their numbers will increase and they`ll reach a critical mass %...
Posted by: adela at March 29, 2005 4:45 PM
I just got a letter from the GOP fund raiser commitee,asking me to send in a check to renew my membership....
I sent back the return envelope with a letter saying that i will decline,until our president and republican senate and congress will act on the national security and border security issues that are of great concern for me,my family and friends:properly identify the enemy as ISLAMIC TERRORISM and stop immigration(legal and illegal) from islamic countries.
at March 29, 2005 4:49 PM
It is unclear to me if Ms. Withers is charged with a crime after the police remove her from the scene. If she has a day in court, I think that she might be able to turn some tables, especially when she show photos of the sign about God hating America because of homosexuals.
Posted by: maryrose at March 29, 2005 6:02 PM
Remember this guy?
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/005176.php#c74290
He has a program on public access TV in Queens. Just sayin...
Posted by: Carolyn2 at March 29, 2005 9:56 PM
So this is what we've come to? Our great NY cops and our post 911 Never Again slogans?
Pathetic. Pathetic that one woman has to face this alone ...
Posted by: Kemaste at March 30, 2005 2:38 AM
"Since 9/11 we have had to bend over backwards for them." Said by a NY cop. How that must make the bile rise to his throat, having to pander to those savages. Savages who dance with glee at the deaths of 23 of this NY cop's brethren on 9/11. Savages who would love to have more NY cops die. What a slap in the face.
Posted by: feralee at March 30, 2005 3:13 AM
I want to thank you all for your support. To often, since they have been around, I started to feel like I have been wrong. I do still need some help though. I have incurred legal bills, so I can stay out of jail. I was informed today that the deal I made, for anger management, may be called off because of the disclosure of the details. Again thank you for your nice words of support, which was important to me.
Posted by: NYCGRRl at April 5, 2005 10:00 PM
The above post is from me Kristine Withers. I can be reached at Kris0822@nyc.rr.com
at April 5, 2005 10:01 PM
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