Now you all know why it is called Foggy Bottom.

Posted by: Kepha at April 5, 2005 8:43 AM

One wonders whose bright idea this is. Is it Condoleeza Rice, or others? If it is she, as a loyal supporter of the belief that "democracy" (defined in the most primitive, elementary-school manner as the mere head-counting that characterizes the "democracy" in Iraq), then she needs to realize, sooner rather than later, that the ideology of Islam can no longer be put off as an object of study -- study that will require training people not by entrusting them to the smiling crocodiles of Islamic apologetics -- Esposito and his operation, or Bechtold at the Foreign Policy Training Institute. That farcical reading list provided to General Vines, who himself can be excused for not realizing what that list has been designed to conceal, and what to present, must not be repeated.

Rice may suffer from the "I Gave At the Office" problem of so many who were convinced of their own tough no-nonsense approach to Communism (in some cases forgetting that those who considered themselves Democratic liberals decades ago -- Henry Jackson for example -- were at least as firm as any Republican convervative, and never made the kind of deals with the Soviet Union that such businessmen as Armand Hammer of Occidental Petroleum or Kendall of Pepsi-Cola kept urging).

Or perhaps it is not Rice at all, but the last gasp of the sinister pro-Muslim and pro-Arab lobby, the kind of people who believe in establishing a "dialogue" with Hamas or Hezbollah. There are American equivalents of Alistair Crooke (whom google, along with "Conflicts Forum") and his crew -- a transparent bunch, holding themselves out as "consultants" to guess what well-paying potential clients?

Europe can continue to be islamized and lost. America can descend to Europe's level, rather than helping to pull it out of the ditch that it dug for itself -- with the French doing the heaviest spadework. All attempts at "understanding" that avoid what is in Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira are so much wasted motion. For Muslims, of any ilk, Infidel attempts at "compromise" will be accepted in order to pocket whatever aid, or delay in comprehension (which works to Muslim advantage), can be obtained. But it does not change ultimate goals, or attitudes. These are immutable, and relentless. Why is there no study of the theory and practice of Islam --- study that does not rely on the strategically planted apologists for Islam (it was no accident that both of the largest Arab-funded pseudo-academic "Centers" in this country, the "Center for Contemporary Arab Studies" and the "Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding" were both placed, deliberately, at Georgetown).

Compromise" means, for Muslims, what it meant for Muhammad. The rule -- see Majid Khadduri, see a hundred scholars of Islam -- is not Pacta Sunt Servanda, but rather, the Treaty of al-Hudaibiyya. Why is this so seemingly hard to understand? Because its implications are too painful.

We all know in our own lives how difficult it is to face up to certain things. Think only of how many of us have a non-existent retirement plan, hoping instead, like Mr. Micawber, that "something will come up." But when government leaders treat the islamization of Europe, and the many instruments of Jihad, as a trivial matter, or something not to be confronted, when they refuse to study the texts of Islam, and to understand the role of Islam, which is all-pervasive, when they confuse the smiling Westernized, English-speaking, often Western-educated and entirely plausible Arab rulers they meet, who are past masters at framing things for Infidel audiences, with what hundreds of millions of quite primitive people, their minds full of Islamic attitudes, swimming in a world where every text, every conversation, every allusion, is based on that shared knowledge and belief in Islam (and those who dissent must do so secretly) -- this is a matter that requires some imaginative understanding, as well as a much greater familiarity with the texts, and with the history, so remarkably similar in time and space, of Muslim conquest and Muslim subjugation of non-Muslim peoples.

If indeed something called "The State Department" -- in reality, there is no such thing, for the State Department is vast, and not everyone there is a fool or an apologist, though some may be (one wonders if those in charge of relations with the Netherlands, for example, are quite in synch with those who may be urging "dialgogue" with the Muslim Brothers).

Rice should establish a separate working-group, designed to deal with the "other" instruments of Jihad -- not military threats, not terror, but propaganda, wealth (that pays for mosques and madrasas), the conduct of Da'wa, and the demographic threat -- with careful study of each European country.

If she is inhibited about this, feels she cannot do this, is worried about CAIR or the ACLU or the New Duranty Times or MESA Nostra screaming bloody murder, then -- as in so much else nowadays -- what ought to be done by the government will have to be done by private means.

In other words, some well-endowed Foundation or foundationts have to take up the slack here. This is an extraordinary situation, in which the American government cannot properly defend the country, or its real (civilizational) allies, because it is fearful of even studying certain matters, or of properly describing the nature of the conflict. This is without precedent: fighting a war in which you cannot allow yourself to properly define the enemy, and cannot therefore rally full support, and your own people must remain confused.

The Muslim Brotherhood, if it has managed to inveigle some American officials into a phony "dialogue," will say whatever it has to say, continue to pretend that it is only a few discreet matters (oh, let's start with "Palestine" shall we?) that are in the way of the start of a beautiful friendship. And, with such people as those behind "Conflicts Forum" (google that, along with "Alistair Crooke" and see what you come up with) involved, such a "dialogue" will only give the Muslim side, Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Hexbollah, Laskar Jihad, the Muslim Brotherhood, the names do not really matter, it could be this group or that group, or no group at all -- a chance to recover their balance, to gain strength, and to keep pulling the lambswool over already myopic Infidel eyes --lambswool that will no longer be needed, of course, when the particular Infidel lamb has been fattened up, and is ready for slaughter.

Posted by: Hugh at April 5, 2005 9:46 AM

Alas, there's another three-letter organization that thinks it understands what goes on in the world, that also thinks we can deal with the Istiwan. Hugh, most of your recommendations are dead on, but I'll go with option three, last gasp of of the sinister pro-Muslim and pro-Arab lobby, which is closely tied to North East elite hatred of Israel, as the source of this idiocy.

Posted by: longtime lurker at April 5, 2005 10:30 AM

"I'll go with option three, last gasp of of the sinister pro-Muslim and pro-Arab lobby, which is closely tied to North East elite hatred of Israel, as the source of this idiocy..."--from a posting above

"North East elite hatred of Israel"?

Some well-educated members of that "North East elite" known to me support Israel more strongly, and more unswervingly, than the Israelis do.

Posted by: Hugh at April 5, 2005 11:48 AM

There is certainly an anti-Israel bias in general among our elites, and those from the Northeast tend to dominate State and the three-letter agencies. Hatred is perhaps too strong a word, bias is more appropriate, but in either case it's anti-Israel, and in my experience many of the pro-Arab tendencies exhibited by our fine government agents are extensions of that bias. There's also a sense of resentment that Israel doesn't act as our vassal state and do as we tell it to do, rather than act as it is: a sovereign state surrounded by enemies that has every right to do what it needs to do to survive.

No slight was intended toward any of your honored friends and acquaintances from the Northeast.

Posted by: longtime lurker at April 5, 2005 12:13 PM

Hugh and longtime lurker -- A distinct chill came over me as I read your posts. Pro-Arab means Pro-Muslim, dangerous bias that will not serve the United States. Who can we write, what can we do to turn this around?

Posted by: epg at April 5, 2005 1:26 PM

This is an old historical association going back to the days of Macarthy and the OAS.
On the Basis that the enemy of communism is my freind, the US financed the egyptian muslim brotherhood, to keep tabs on Arab communist activity, as the Muslim Brotherhood was seen as a right wing pro Nazi association.
It was much of the same lets whitewash and recruit Nazi war criminals to fight communism doctrines of the post war State dept and intelligence community.
OF course the Muslim brotherhood will run rings around the state department as any muslim "agent" can be loyal only to Islam when the chips are down and the Intelligence westerners will learn this lesson to their cost, (as they have done already in the US military).

Posted by: chevalier de st george at April 5, 2005 3:00 PM

When the Government agencies treat the Islamification of Europe as a matter of near zero importance and all the non violent instruments of islamification as virtually non existent, one begins to wonder if one is paranoid or if perhaps there is a Path of Least Resistance entrenched in the bureaucracy.
As Jean Anouih, shows us in "la Pucelle", heroes are few and far between, most of us seeking the paths of mediocracy and personal security.
Of course, how comforting to think that, if the time came we would all rise as one to defend ourselves and our families, regardlees of the treacheries which might be heaped upon us by the politicians and their civil servant monions!
But as history shows us in Germany, Bosnia etc, the vast majority of us end up as collaborators or hide our heads in the sand. Because by that time it is already too late.
Only preemtive action or defence as it is now called can avoid the inevitable consequences of staying firmly in our comfort zones.
And that is why the policies of the much maligned President of the USA are correct however painfull they might appear to the utterly misguided left wing Inteligentsia.

Posted by: chevalier de st george at April 5, 2005 3:39 PM

During World War 2, the Third Reich conspired with the Muslim Brotherhood to attack the United States with V-2 rockets loaded with nuclear explosives. Hitler's bombing of London was a probable test run for the planned future nuclear assault against the United States. Hitler even bragged the city streets of US cities would be running with blood of Americans killed as their cities burned to the ground.

Now I ask Jihad Watch posters how is it possible to contain an organization entertaining and idealizing such monstrousness? (By the way Israel did NOT exist as independent state at that time so the usual arguments to vilify America were not and are not applicable to this situation).

No. The Muslim Brotherhood must be destroyed--not contained (which it won't be).

Sorry Uncle Sam. You're going to lose.

Posted by: pythagoras at April 5, 2005 7:05 PM

Ahem, Condi Rice and all of the cabinet serve at the leisure of, and are handpicked by a man name of George W. Bush. In fact Condi's relationship with George goes back a long way, she has a knack for explaining complicated concepts and situations to George in a manner he can comprehend, and even anticipates his needs.

If there is a problem with Condi, et al, then there is a problem with the boss, but of course there is the Bush family are personal friends and Business partners with the Saudi/ bin Ladens.

The law firm of Baker Botts (as in James Baker III) has three clients, the Bush family, the Saudis and Exxon.

Let's not forget that Prince Bandar is known affectionately in the family as Bandar Bush, both he and Prince Abdullah have visited Crawford, and Bandar can call on the Whitehouse anytime he is in town and has slept 14 times in the Lincoln Bedroom.

Posted by: Giaour at April 5, 2005 9:59 PM

Muslim Brotherhood, Nazis and Al Qaeda
Speech by John Loftus, former U.S. Deputy Attorney General
Holocaust Remembrance Day

I had an unusual education in the Holocaust. When I was working for the Attorney General, I was assigned to do the classified research about the Holocaust, so I went underground to a little town called Suitland, Maryland, right outside Washington, D.C. and that's where the US Government buries its secrets - - literally.

There are twenty vaults underground and each vault is one acre in size. Anyone see the movie “Raiders of the Lost Ark”? The last scene of that movie is what the underground vaults are really like, only not as organized as they are in the movie. And in those underground vaults I discovered something horrible.

I learned that many of the Nazis that I had been assigned to prosecute were on the CIA payroll, but the CIA didn't know they were Nazis because the British Intelligence Service had lied to them. What the British Intelligence Service didn't know was that their liar was Kim Philby, the Soviet communist double agent -- a little scandal of the Cold War. But our State Department swept it all under the rug and allowed the Nazis to stay in America until I was stupid enough to go public with it.

http://www.navyseals.com/community/articles/article.cfm?id=4328
Here's how the story began. In the 1920's there was a young Egyptian named al Bana. And al Bana formed this nationalist group called the Muslim Brotherhood. Al Bana was a devout admirer of Adolph Hitler and wrote to him frequently. So persistent was he in his admiration of the new Nazi Party that in the 1930's, al Bana and the Muslim Brotherhood became a secret arm of Nazi Intelligence.

Posted by: hutchrun at April 6, 2005 2:22 AM

This plan sounds as good as the one to support the 'Afghan mujahadeen freedom fighters' in the 1980's that produced Osama Bin Laden and his gang. Thanks State. Thanks CIA. Thanks all.

Infiltrate and destroy the Muslim Brotherhood, -YES.

Work with them, -NO.

NOTE TO STATE DEPARTMENT AND PRESIDENT:

If you don't know what your enemy wants, at least know what you want.

No one in ANY of the governments of the West seem to be able to answer that last one. Except maybe "power and money".

Forgetting that there'll be no place left to spend it when Sharia outlaws all of their pleasures. And their head.

To mix metaphors-

our national will is like gasoline. In its pure, [patriotic] form, it can explode when needed.

Islamic political correctness influences [C.A.I.R.] and unchecked illegal immigration [La Raza] combine to form something that acts like slowly pouring water into our 'fuel'.

The more h2o you add to this 'gas', the less ignitable it becomes. And, since these Islamicists and illegals don't have the country's interests at heart [say it ain't so, Joe!], and the latter don't even bother to learn the language, our country's will is becoming dangerously diluted. Unable to rage into flame when it senses at impending attack.

A clever plan by both spheres of influence.

Diffuse and destroy.

While our government seems to be playacting some defunct scenario from a 1950's war college exercise.

The Slumber Party sleepwalks onward....

Posted by: BigSleep at April 6, 2005 2:23 AM

Muslim Brotherhood, Nazis and Al Qaeda
Speech by John Loftus, former U.S. Deputy Attorney General
Holocaust Remembrance Day

I had an unusual education in the Holocaust. When I was working for the Attorney General, I was assigned to do the classified research about the Holocaust, so I went underground to a little town called Suitland, Maryland, right outside Washington, D.C. and that's where the US Government buries its secrets - - literally.

There are twenty vaults underground and each vault is one acre in size. Anyone see the movie “Raiders of the Lost Ark”? The last scene of that movie is what the underground vaults are really like, only not as organized as they are in the movie. And in those underground vaults I discovered something horrible.

I learned that many of the Nazis that I had been assigned to prosecute were on the CIA payroll, but the CIA didn't know they were Nazis because the British Intelligence Service had lied to them. What the British Intelligence Service didn't know was that their liar was Kim Philby, the Soviet communist double agent -- a little scandal of the Cold War. But our State Department swept it all under the rug and allowed the Nazis to stay in America until I was stupid enough to go public with it.

http://www.navyseals.com/community/articles/article.cfm?id=4328
Here's how the story began. In the 1920's there was a young Egyptian named al Bana. And al Bana formed this nationalist group called the Muslim Brotherhood. Al Bana was a devout admirer of Adolph Hitler and wrote to him frequently. So persistent was he in his admiration of the new Nazi Party that in the 1930's, al Bana and the Muslim Brotherhood became a secret arm of Nazi Intelligence.

Posted by: hutchrun at April 6, 2005 2:25 AM

I regret my facetious first post.

I don't blame anti-Semitism, residual anti-Communism, or Dr. Rice's being asleep at the wheel for this one. Remember, there's a professional foreign service at work even as SecStates come and go.

One thing the US Department of State learned during the long, frustrating, Cold War era was that nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come (even if it's a stupid idea). Another is that the folks with the combination of organization, fire in the belly, and guts tend to win. These things, coupled with a keen awareness that most of the Arab world's attempts at advancing itself have failed dismally, probably prompt FOggy Bottom to want to have some kind of contact with a group that might just win; and hence be able to keep the US government informed about what such a group is thinking and doing.

Remember as well that the casual dismissal of theologically-based movements as contrary to the whole spirit of an age intellectually partitioned by Marx and Weber led the best and brightest in Washington to be utterly blindsided by Khmoeini and Hizbullah back in the late 1970's and early 1980's. The best quantitative analyses of Soviet production (culled from official statistics from the USSR, by the way) also failed to reveal the serious inner weaknesses of our Cold War adversary. Foggy Bottom knows that it has an awful lot of catching up to do, and figures it needs to adjust to a whole new ball game.

Posted by: Kepha at April 6, 2005 5:41 AM

John loftus paints a picture of the continuation of Nazism in the Muslim brotherhood, from which its infant AlQaida was later born.

“What I’ve become in my old age is a teacher. Twenty-five years ago I was a lot younger, a lot thinner, but now every day I get 500 to 1,000 e-mails from honest men and women around the world from the intelligence community. And we have to end the evil in this world. We have to recognize that al-Qaeda simply didn’t spring up on its own. The evil root was Nazism. The al-Qaeda Doctrine is the same as the Arab Nazis held. They hated Jews, they hate democracy, and they hate Westerners for Western culture. Al Qaeda is nothing more than the religious expression of Arab Fascism. We allowed this branch of the Nazi trunk to survive, to flourish, and it has come back to haunt us.”

Posted by: chevalier de st george at April 6, 2005 5:50 AM