Actually, there was another part of the article which I didn't translate and I probably should have.

One of the ChristianUnion MP's said that 'Islam is not the problem. Low self-esteem among Muslim youth of the second and third generation makes them susceptible to extremism more so than Islam. Muslim schools can help them overcome their identity crisis.'

Right, Osame bin Laden and Zarqawi are stuck in an identity crisis! Ignore the Qu'ranic textx that call for the murder of infidels and the subjugation of women and non-Muslims. Ignore the cries of 'Allahu Akbar' when the Islamic killers cut off their victim's head. Islam has nothing to do with it, really. After all, it's not the orthodox and fundamentalist Muslims that use violence but the moderate ones. You know, the ones that don't really care about Islam but are stuck in an identity crisis. We need to give them more Islam and they will become upstanding citizens. Didn't you know, Islam means peace. Islam is tolerant and respectful of other cultures and other points of view.

Some Christians feel Islam can help them in the struggle against secularism, the Dutch evangelical channel EO actually feels more Islam is a good thing because it can help bring back a more ethical approach towards society's problems. So far most Christians don't seem to have a clue. Only one Catholic bishop recently said Islam won't make it because it's virtually empty and for the most part aggressive and oppressive but even he said we have to learn to live with them because we don't have a choice.

Of course we have a choice, for some reason I just don't think Christians are going to help us make that choice.

Posted by: Leveller at April 12, 2005 9:55 AM

This is true unfortunately:

Some Christians feel Islam can help them in the struggle against secularism, the Dutch evangelical channel EO actually feels more Islam is a good thing because it can help bring back a more ethical approach towards society's problems.

Posted by: Beagle at April 12, 2005 10:37 AM

Thanks for the posting Leveller. This kind of stuff is very informative. You should (must!) send it to Charles Johnson at LGF.

As I've said before elsewhere: telling.

Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at April 12, 2005 10:48 AM

A prediction of civil war in Denmark of all places and now this.

The end can't be far off.

Posted by: BillR at April 12, 2005 11:26 AM

Or is it, BillR,
the beginning,
of being allowed to fight back against the islamic invasion by telling the truth openly, in public, without the threat of being charged for arousing hate by our own pc govt, or being slashed, stabbed or shot by some brainwashed, or braindead, allah addict.
Be a comfort to hear a mainstream politico articulate the real problem, well exemplified in the debate above, instead of the usual pc bs.

Posted by: dby at April 12, 2005 12:14 PM

Schools all of the non-Muslim world are feeling this pressure. We can see the momentum building as Islam in being insinuated into North American schools. It seems that the established education system is either duped into believe that multiculturalism is the answer for improving society or they lack the courage to put up a fight.

Posted by: epg at April 12, 2005 1:14 PM

Geoff, I see Charles already picked it up. More than 200 replies already. Making waves!

Posted by: Leveller at April 12, 2005 1:26 PM

I wonder if the major news outlets would tell this story? There seems to be a prohibition on anything that shows islam in the light of truth. If the truth begins to be told on the front pages of our papers and on the 5 o'clock news, we can stop this thing dead in it's tracks

Posted by: Carolyn2 at April 12, 2005 2:23 PM

dby,

You know I really hope so, because if they don't do something, and real soon, you can kiss off the great churches of Europe.

But hey! For us guys there will be lots of fair haired European women at the slave market. Not a lot of virgins, but who's being picky?

I'm trying desperatly to sound the alarm, but even my kids think I'm a raving psyco islamophobe racist. I think I might be getting somewhere, but my son, at the University of Nevada in Reno says he's got a couple of Muslum school chums and they're nice guys. Believe me, it's an uphill battle all the way.

In fact my son says Robert Spencer dropped out of a PHD program and never got his Masters. Daniel Pipes and Robert Spencer are right wing radicals and Pipes is a radical Zionist. Can you believe it?

I've got an active dialog going with him, and promised I would call Chapel Hill and verify Spencers degree, year bestowed, and Specialty.

I'm actually on the defensive here! If we don't turn this liberal #@%& society around we could loose all this!

I'm actually hoping Denmark bites the big one and they have a bloodbath - Christians vs Islam, can you believe that? Kind of a sacrifice for the greater good.

I feel like it's 1939 and everyone is cheering Chamberlin! What's going on here? We could be in big trouble if we don't get more active.

I've got some believers, but not a lot. How about you?

PS - Robert, why don't you get a spell checker on this $&^#@? web site, you Zionist, islamophobic, right wing radical, Islam truth sayer!

Posted by: BillR at April 12, 2005 2:52 PM

Bill, you can use
http://www.spellcheck.net/

it works

Posted by: Carolyn2 at April 12, 2005 5:07 PM

BEST SPELLCHECKER:
ieSpell - Spell Checker add-on for Internet Explorer

Posted by: dennisw at April 12, 2005 5:11 PM

My dear Bill R:

I don't know where your son is getting his information, but it is quite false. I never dropped out of a PhD program because I never entered one. I opted not to, many years ago, because I could see even then that Middle East Studies and other departments were becoming highly politicized and retreating from genuine academic work.

I did indeed receive an MA in Religious Studies from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill in 1986. My MA thesis is in the collection at the UNC library, which I believe is sufficient proof of this. The university should be able to tell you this.

As for "right wing," it is an empty label used by those who don't want to think in order to discredit thought of which they disapprove.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Posted by: jihadwatch at April 12, 2005 5:15 PM

I can figure out Islam better than most PhDs. They waste their time instead of finding out Islam's truth right here at Mr. Spencer's website with his most able VP, Hugh. I've been interested in Islam since 9-11, I've learned the most right here and from sites and articles linked from here. Such as the faithfreedom website of Mr. Ali Sina.

Actually I came here from LFG and Charles gets credit for helping Robert build this superb place for learning and debating Islam, Jihad, and Dhimmitude.

Posted by: dennisw at April 12, 2005 5:30 PM

What a great group of people to be associated with! I mean it!

Robert Spencer has responded to my whing requests for help twice now, and in timely manner that allowed me to "strike back", if you know what I mean.

Hugh has written some articles that just bring tears to my eyes. Thank you very much.

And to all the good and kind folks who seem to inhabit this web site, thank you for your input and in many cases your critical response to my feeble efforts to express myself.

Than you dby for your optamistic outlook. You make me feel like there's hope yet.

Anyway, thank you again.

Bill Rowan PE

Posted by: BillR at April 12, 2005 6:35 PM

Right wing/left wing? I support the global suppression of Muslim worship, as long as the Civilized world is able to do so. And I am firmly in the ban-the-koran camp. However, I am a centrist politically as - it appears - are most regular posters here.

We are five weeks away from oil-head gas pricing. When that happens, President Bush's oil-patch arrogance will manifest, and the Saud ass-kissing carried out by those sharks will, when revealed, turn the counter-terror campaign away from Bush-Wolfowitz Saud-centrist inclusivism, and toward Pax Americana. To hell with Iraqis (barely Muslim Kurd nationalists being the exception), Afghans and especially the terrorist Paki slaves-of-allah.

Westerners need to learn how to to write off peoples. Muslims are a liability. Let's give them all a desert homeland away from the Civilized world, and let those savages wallow in their social idiocy. Our pluralist way of life cannot be maintained by suicidal indulgence of those pathological monists.

Posted by: smokem at April 12, 2005 6:46 PM

"prediction of civil war in Denmark of all places and now this."

You will see civil war in many other places before it happens in Denmark.

Check out my post Here ( Bolding Hansen ):

http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8639

I predict England, not because it has the biggest problems, but because the people are more likely to react, that is riots.

Sweden might have a genuine civil war, because it has the biggest problems, and the politicians are totally ignoring it.

Denmark have much fewer problems and more importantly the politicians are doing something about it!

Posted by: TBH_1 at April 12, 2005 7:11 PM

Thx for spell check links By the way, pretty handy for us with english as second language.

Posted by: TBH_1 at April 12, 2005 7:16 PM

Of course Europe owes some of its culture to Islam. The word "alcohol", f'rinstance. (Al-kohl.)

But even more so, the Aztecs were DIRECTLY inspired by an early offshoot of the blood-thirsty cult of Mohammad.

The story going around in scholarly Koranic circles is that a boatload of lost Arab ambergris gatherers were caught in an Atantic storm and ended up on the coast of Belize ("Baal lies"?). Where they were 'worshipped', centuries before Pisarro, as 'bearded gods from the East'.

Immediately upon learning of the beliefs of these strange men, the native people began sacrificing virgins, cutting out hearts, chopping off heads, and conquering their previously peaceful neighbors.

Hell, if the Islamicists can promulagte preposterous paradigms of the past, let's join them and make up crackpot counter-balancing myths.

Ones that gives them back what they are giving, -and then some!

E.G.-

Islam actually owes its existence to a drunken Jewish camel salesman who followed Mohammad into the hills one dark night, and as the future prophet fell into an epileptic seziure, Ali Babushka (the salesman) decided to have some fun. He went into a nearby cave, from which he planned to pretend to be the Angel Gabriel. As Mohammad awoke from his trance, he suddenly heard an eerie, echoing voice, and felt a trickle of fearful awe creep up his spine. Then he listened as the revelations of 'Gibreel' (-he had no way to spellcheck "Gabriel") began:

"What I say is not to be doubted!" intoned Ali Babushka, supressing a burst of laughter.

Thus the Koran was born.

And I challenge the Islamicists to prove me wrong!

Posted by: BigSleep at April 12, 2005 8:27 PM

BigSleep, I want you and Geoff to get together and write an anti-koran. You two are talented, I get a laugh daily from you guys.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at April 12, 2005 8:50 PM

There have already been riots in France, so the war has begun and politicians look the other way. Nezt, the UK and Sweden will suffer. All that Churchill fought to save will be gone.

The problem is that the general public of the world is so ignorant and uneducated so they are easily seduced by falsehoods especially through the school systems. Luckily, all we need is one of their bigwigs to lose his/her cool in public like this. Too bad that this probably still won't sway the left....

Speaking of slave markets....

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4407

Posted by: Itachi at April 12, 2005 8:55 PM

BigSleep,

You sold me. For two paragraphs I wondered how I missed that in South American history. And amazing alliteration!

Posted by: Beagle at April 12, 2005 8:57 PM

In case you are wondering what Mill Gorus is:

http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw98-9/nether.html

Extreme Turkish Islamists and Nationalists. Milli Gorus (National Vision), is an organization of Turkish immigrants in Europe, composed of members of the former Turkish Welfare Party (see Turkey) and the fascist Gray Wolves. Their aim, to shield Turkish immigrants from Westerm cultural and political influences, is expressed in their newspaper Milli Gazette, thus: "Milli Gorus is a shield protecting our fellow citizens from assimilation into barbaric Europe."

Posted by: markjames at April 12, 2005 11:19 PM

Re the Netherlands:

Count me out of the Theo van Gogh-as-martyr crowd. The more I think about the case, the more I'm convinced that he was a walking symbol for the liberated Western mind that had no higher goal or aspiration than titillation and a full belly. He made a career of villfying and blaspheming against the faith that built his continent and civilization, provided the last shreds of ethics to which he could irrationally lay claim (it's always fun to hear nihilists and relativists make value judgments), and the faith which treated him with a great deal of forbearance and forgiveness. While skewering Christianity, he pretended to be the brave, forward, avant-guard artist "fearlessly" exposing bourgeois hypocrisy only because he knew he would never get the Calvinist pillory, much less the Roman Catholic stake and faggot. Yet before his Muslim murderer he whimpered like a baby. He lived on his buttocks and [censored], and died on his knees. He was cut from the same cloth as a feminist I know who now says Americans have to give up some of their lberty in order to accommodate Muslim senistivities--boldly contemptuous before the forgiving, craven before the cruel.

If TvG was the cutting edge of European culture, Europe richly deserves to become the slum surrounded by desert that Islam makes wherever it goes.

The Christian politician quoted has proven himself useless.

Posted by: Kepha at April 13, 2005 5:34 AM

Kepha, you disgust me.

Giaour was right. Christians can act no differently to muslims when it comes to their religion.

Theo had every right, in a democratic society, to criticise any religion he chose.

You remind me of those people who blamed Salman Rushdie for the fatwa against him.

I believe in freedom and a democratic and secular society, where everyone is free to be themselves.

It's a shame that some others on this forum don't feel the same.

Posted by: Voltaire at April 13, 2005 7:28 AM

Voltaire:

I also believe in "freedom and a democratic and secular society, where everyone is free to be themselves."* and disagree strongly with Kepha. TvG had his detractors, who took exception to his "in your face" ways, but he exhibited great courage and, agree with his means or not, is a martyr to the cause of freedom and democracy, whose memory deserves respect.

*I'm not sure that we are on the same page insofar as freedom is not an absolute. Too many scumbags have attempted to hide behind "freedom of speech" and have been defended by those who do not understand the distinction between freedom and license.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at April 13, 2005 8:53 AM

Carolyn2,

[bows] =)

I would love to take BigSleep on as a partner to write the anti-Quran; alas, God can truly have no partners.

Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at April 13, 2005 10:31 AM

Kepha,

"Count me out of the Theo van Gogh-as-martyr crowd. The more I think about the case, the more I'm convinced that he was a walking symbol for the liberated Western mind that had no higher goal or aspiration than titillation and a full belly."

This nonsens can only be excused by total ignorance on your part. Het spoke out on every subject that needed speaking out about, thus sometimes he adressed Christianity, sometimes Islam, sometimes on some other sort of political ideas. He was een courageous and forward fighter for our civilization and its freedoms and put his money where his mouth was. With this he paid for his life, not because he wanted a full belly or a lot of money, but simply because he valued those freedoms and our civilization as more important then his own live. That's how you keep a civilization civilized: by having people to defend those value and forget about things as being well of or comfortable.
And yes, at the moment supreme (he was always afraid to get killed before his son was of age) he asked "to talk about it", and yes, he was coward enough (this remark of you really makes me sick, how dare you in the safety of your own life and with your -probably- full belly to judge one who put his life at risk for his believes?) to ask for mercy. I would feel very brave if I was only half the coward he proofed to be.

Posted by: Ernst at April 13, 2005 7:49 PM

Twice the coward.

Posted by: Ernst at April 13, 2005 7:50 PM

PS: Just kidding, BigSleep. Thought I'd better say it.

Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at April 14, 2005 9:50 PM

Geoff-

I think the Koran itself is enough of an anti-Koran for one planet.

Read carefully, and in comparison with the Tao Te Ching, The Sermon on The Mount, The Songs of Solomon, The Bhagavad Gita and Rig Veda, The Mumonkan, William Blake's Songs of Innocence and Experience, The Spoon River Anthology, etc.,etc. the Quran's sterility and monotony are soon tasted and judge a thin and unhealthy treacle.
About as poetic as the humming of an electric chair and as lyrical as a stepped on cat's tail.

But, Geoff, if we were to ever bump into one another, say on a strand in Jamaica, while hoisting a few Mai Tais ("unclean" though they may be) or a mere beer or two, I'd be glad to throw together a "Naruq" (Quran backwards) for fun.

It should only take a long evening's imagining (and a good micro-recorder to catch the flow) and enough chilled libations (and guacamole for the nachos) to fuel the fete.

The first line would have to be:

"Do you dare to doubt that is NOT a book!"

(With lots of CAPIALIZATIONS to impress the unwary, and illogic to ensnare to overly-sincere.)

All I would need to know is:

Do they make bullet-proof vests that go with floral prints, straw hats and flip-flips?

(We could say we heard the revelations from voice of the angel "Charley" [and not Gibreel]... for a very low and silly pop culture pun.)

Posted by: BigSleep at April 15, 2005 10:35 PM