We interrupt this program for a special announcement from the President of the United States.

Good evening my fellow citizens.
As you know, the entire Islamic world hates America.
To change Islamic perceptions of America, I have signed an executive order that will show the world how America respects the Muslim religion.
Effective immediately I have orderd that:

All toilets to face either North or South to avoid pointing toward Mecca.
All public schools to announce the call to prayers.
All public schools to provide an Islamic prayer room.
All public schools to provide an annual Islamic awareness week.
All public schools to require girls to wear habib.
All public schools to eliminate all co-educational programs.
All churches to announce the Islamic call to prayers.
All churches to provide at a minimum one weekly sermon on Islamic tolerance.
All public servants to stop work during prayers.
All households to have at least one copy of the Koran.
Disrespect for the Koran punishable by life imprisonment.
Improper treatment of Koran to be punishable by 1 year in jail.
All Jews to wear a conspicuous yellow star of David.
All Jewish businesses to be taxed at 90% of gross revenue.
All Mosques to receive government grants for outreach programs.
Sale of all pork products to be banned.
Display of ceramic pigs to be banned.
All piggy banks to be broken and funds donated to an Islamic charity.
All pharmacies to carry an adequate supply of camel urine.

Good night, and may God, uhhh I mean, Allah bless America.

Posted by: a10billr at May 27, 2005 10:59 AM

They have it all backwards. The Brits don't need to understand the culture of the wogs, it should be the other way round. To help the young Muslim immigrants assimilate into the British culture they need to run them through a year of Talmudic training.

This sort of thing runs both ways. You see, the Yanks and the Tommies are now in Iraq as part of a cultural exchange program. Just like in the UK, the burden is upon the host country of Iraq to understand the culture of the visitors. The more they understand about the Western culture, the less noise the visitors make by not having to blow stuff up.

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at May 27, 2005 11:11 AM

It's like the freaking stockholm syndrom

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at May 27, 2005 11:48 AM

Not Stockholm Syndrome, but the repeating of Mao's little red book although it is a green book this time.
When can we expect high quality Christian materials to be used in Muslim schools?

Posted by: Carolyn2 at May 27, 2005 12:12 PM

"Councillor John Pantall, executive member for diversity strategy, said: "If we can get to pupils at an early age we hope they can grow up understanding other cultures and religions and without prejudice."

What he meant to say was, If we can get to pupils at an early age we hope they can grow up muslim.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at May 27, 2005 12:15 PM

a10billr - your ability to throw around so many Islamic terms and understand so little about what you are talking about shows me your glaring ignorance.

Hulegu Khan - wogs? Oh, so you're a racist and xenophobe in addition to a religious bigot! You have a rap sheet of someone who ought to be ignored. So, I'll ignore you.

Carolyn2 warbled: "When can we expect high quality Christian materials to be used in Muslim schools?"

King responds: You can expect this when "high quality" Islamic dogma is taught in Christian parochial schools, that is, never.

Why would a move to promote a better understanding between cultures be met with such resistance and closed-mindedness? One has to think that it stems from extreme insecurity & ignorance. And reading DhimmiWatch for your "Islamic education" doesn't help, either.

Posted by: KingTolerance at May 27, 2005 12:30 PM

King Tolerance:

The schools in this case are secular state schools. Do they also pass out Christian missionary materials to Muslim kids in those schools as well? I doubt it. So if not, there really ISN'T any "better understanding between cultures" being promoted here is it? Instead what's being promoted here is the same old multi-culti dogma, with the onus for being "tolerant" and "understanding" being placed entirely on the shoulders of ONE culture (the Western one, of cours) not two.

PS -- Does anyone here think that KT is actually a Muslim troll pretending to be a secularist? I certainly think so.

Posted by: Suzan at May 27, 2005 12:51 PM

Comments like this:

a10billr - your ability to throw around so many Islamic terms and understand so little about what you are talking about shows me your glaring ignorance.

. . .are certainly very suggestive of where KT is coming from.

Posted by: Suzan at May 27, 2005 12:52 PM

King T,

For one who seemingly is trying to give the impression of promoting tolerance, you should refrain from making blanket statements that cover all members of an identified group:

"King responds: You can expect this when "high quality" Islamic dogma is taught in Christian parochial schools, that is, never.

I attended high school run by the Dominican Order of the Roman Catholic Church. As part of our religious studies we had to study the foundations and beliefs of all major world religions, islam included. These classes were not to hold Christianity upon high and to bash the other (to do so would guarantee a failing grade and inability to graduate), but to study from a historical perspective the social structures, and the scientific and technical knowledge then possessed of the arts and sciences (which may now be in some respects be regarded as beliefs and superstitions), from which such religious dogma coud emerge.

Try having a class like that in the Islamic paradise. We probably had a higher quality and more rigorous education of other religions than would ever be possible to obtain from the al-anzar mosque university in Cairo.

Posted by: Lisa at May 27, 2005 1:07 PM

Suzan, could be.. but he may have come here from Conyers' blog. His infuriating sort is over there in large numbers.

BTW, I don't warble, if you knew me you would understand, KT. When things go pear-shaped here, I will be able to take care of myself, while you will be telling the jihadists how you were their friend.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at May 27, 2005 1:07 PM

Conyers' blog is probably full of Muslim trolls pretending to be secularists too. That's how they get the useful fools to do their bidding.

Posted by: Suzan at May 27, 2005 1:09 PM

I THINK THEY WILL NOT GET A FULL PICTURE IN THEIR EDUCATION THEY WILL LEAVE OFF THE KILL THE INFIDELS PART.
THEY ALWAYS LEAVE OUT THE BEST PARTS

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at May 27, 2005 1:24 PM

This is outrageous. Islamic propaganda and brain washing to promote good race relations? This is absolute madness!

Posted by: Zico at May 27, 2005 1:26 PM

Iqbal Sacranie, secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, attended this week's launch. He said: “We believe education is the key to creating a vibrant and understanding. We want to ensure every school child in Stockport has access to high quality Islamic resources.”

I want EVERY SINGLE MUSLILM SCHOOLCHILD in Britain receive videos and study packs on Hinduism and Judaism. Every single one of them, to promote racial harmony and understanding. Lets see how they and their families respond to being taught about Krishna and Ganesh and about the Jewish faith and its historical homeland. Teach them about the Temple Mount and its significance.

It is outrageous and insidious that this kind of nonsense is promoted under the umbrella of 'race relations'. They must be rubbing their hands with sinister glee at the state funding they will be getting to spread their ideology and do their dawah. Disgraceful.

Posted by: Zico at May 27, 2005 1:30 PM

King Tolerance the Islamist Troll

These are state schools, secular to their very core, being subjected to Islamic propaganda.

Posted by: Zico at May 27, 2005 1:32 PM

KingTolerance says,

"You have a rap sheet of someone who ought to be ignored. So, I'll ignore you."

KingPretentious is enraptured by his own drivel that he actually believes a person would care if he was ignored by the "Tolerant One."

KingTolerance tolerates only those who agree with his position. He must be exercising the dumber side of tolerance.

Posted by: Skeet Street at May 27, 2005 1:39 PM

For KT's edification:

http://www.dawanet.com/methods/default.asp

Posted by: CGW at May 27, 2005 1:41 PM

CGW

That link shows the truly insidious and dangerous nature of the Muslim attempt to prosletyse by exploiting the goodwill of people within our secular educational system. It should be read and studied and understood by all parents of children in school in Britain and the West. As a countermeasure, every single Muslim school child should recieve religious indoctrination in Christianity, Judaism, and Hinduism to a proportinate degree to what they wish infidels to learn about Islam. Study packs, videos, everything. They are in dire need of it.

This will promote tolerance amongst Muslims for other races and religions, something that is sorely needed.

Posted by: Zico at May 27, 2005 1:50 PM

King Tolerance.

I got this recently (can't think why), but someone must have thought I needed a tutorial in "islamic" tolerance. Priceless - it says
everything we need to know about the aims of islamic immigration (and not just in Britain). Maybe you can share your thoughts with
Iftikhar Ahmad at this mighty academy of learning, authors of the following (boring rant, but I left it all in - enjoy!):
from -

London School of Islamics

63 Margery Park Road London E7 9LD
Email: info@londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

www.londonschoolofislamics.org.uk

Tel/Fax: 0208 555 2733 / 07817 112

Faith-based Schools

The education secretary angers secular groups by pledging £500m to rebuild faith-based schools, including only two Muslim schools. There are over half a million Muslim children in British schools where bilingualism and Islamic Identity is totally neglected. In history lessons, Muslim contributions to European learning and culture are never mentioned. Only three percent of Muslim children are in Muslim schools.

Islam does not believe in integration but encourages participation and feel responsibility in the British society. There is no question of either integration or assimilation. Muslim community must participate and fight for the rights granted by the state. It is not asking for any favour. Muslim community does not hate British values, they hate British policies (give us two A4 pages on that KT - need enlightenment). British needs to recognize and acknowledge that Muslim values do not pose a threat to the strategic values of Western society. We all need dialogue at all levels. It is possible to find common ground on the basis of respect for difference and a toleration of others. Muslim schools can play a vibrant part in British society. There is a huge desire for Muslim schools within the community. Studies show that 84% agree that there should be a choice for the Muslims. Muslim community should compel the state to provide the same educational provision as it does for other religions. There is a proposal under which parents would be able to demand the creation of a whole new institution, run by a private company. Money would follow the pupil, so that unpopular schools would be close down

A Muslim school is an institution which is established to mold a child into an Islamic personality and provide the educational needs of our children. One of the primary aims of Muslim school is to make a person a good citizen, some one who respects others, values other people’s views and lives as a peaceful and legal citizen of the country. Tolerance and harmony are Islamic virtues and Muslim schools put more emphasis to appreciate and respect other cultures. In a Muslim school, the pupils are coming from home to home. Muslim schools are the solution to racial tensions, not part of the problem. Research shows that children perform better when they are in a familiar social setting. Muslim schools certainly give Muslim children an atmosphere in which they can grow and excel. Muslim schools provide a vital bridge in allowing children from the Muslim community to succeed in adult life. The success of a Muslim school is the notion that no child is ever regarded as a failure.

There are hundreds of state as well as Church schools where Muslim pupils are in majority and all such schools should be converted to Muslim community schools (Didn't Hitler do that, "anschluss" wasn't it?)

Iftikhar Ahmad

Posted by: Sam Roony at May 27, 2005 2:07 PM

LOL - for the record, once again, I am neither Muslim nor a troll - thanks for the thoughts, however. The name calling indicates that I am striking a chord which is what I intend to do. I am just a person who happened upon this site when helping one of my nephews prepare for a high school final. You are all full from gobbling up this hate-filled propaganda so I am not surprised that you cannot think for yourselves.

Now, if I may:

Suzan chortled: "Does anyone here think that KT is actually a Muslim troll pretending to be a secularist? I certainly think so."

King reponds - Sorry I'm urinizing on your Islam bashing parade, Susie! I happen to think that you are a bigot, you lack the ability to think, and you are here to wallow in your ignorance. SOrry for ruining it for you.

Zico bellowed:
"King Tolerance the Islamist Troll
These are state schools, secular to their very core, being subjected to Islamic propaganda."

King deflects: How typical. Consistent with the whole "Dissent is unpatriotic" school of thought, I am Islamist simply beacuse I reject the bigoted ideation being peddled on this website. As you wish - its your brain, not mine.

I am fully aware that these are secular schools. I applaud their progressive thinking in identifying a cultural rift and trying to address it. At least these schools are trying, rather than rallying around some website and arguing with someone whom they think is Muslim, too! Too funny.

Posted by: KingTolerance at May 27, 2005 2:35 PM

King Troll:

Continue to ignore the double-standard that is islamic tolerance and continue to live in the eighth century.

I wouldn't have such a problem with islam being taught in schools if the teachings included the naked truth about the death-cult. If that were the case, kids would be running from classrooms in fear. Of course, seeing as many muslims don't even entirely understand the religion they practice this scenario isn't likely to happen.

The truth needs to remain hidden in order for islam to flourish.

Posted by: Salami, Salami, Bologna at May 27, 2005 2:35 PM

KT wrote:

I am fully aware that these are secular schools. I applaud their progressive thinking in identifying a cultural rift and trying to address it.

Oh right. On other threads you loudly decry that you are a staunch devotee of seperation of church and state. (Look how long that lasted!) But here you are applauding the extensive teaching of a religion in a secular school.

Yeah, makes sense. Either a crazed leftist so blinded by your hatred of Christianity that you'll fully support the destruction of secularised institutions by another religion, or a Muslim troll.

Posted by: Suzan at May 27, 2005 2:47 PM

PS KT - please explain how does one address a "cultural rift" when only one side of the "rift" is allowed to present its case?

I'd love to hear your explanation of that one!

PS -- name calling won't get you anything with me. I've been studying Islam for more than five years. Your laughable characterizations of my viewpoints almost caused me to choke on my coke.

Posted by: Suzan at May 27, 2005 2:49 PM

Sam,

Regarding Islamic schools in the UK: AFAIK from dialogues with Britons, the UK, unlike the US, does fund parochial schools publically. If that is the case, it is unfair that the children of any religion be given short resources. What he is asking for sounds a lot like the vouchers we are lobbying for in the US. Of course, care should be taken to ensure that hatred and support for violence are not taught - all religions are *not* the same.

Much better to do away with public funding for education all together, of course, and allow parents the primary choice!

Posted by: saychel at May 27, 2005 2:50 PM

King Troll

OK, you are not a Muslim, you are just a Useful Idiot of Islamic prosletysation. You ducked and dived but you didnt actually answer the substantive point: why should Islam be propagated inside secular state schools?

Dont be a moral and intellectual coward. Give the reasons why you think this should be done and I will argue the issues with you.

Posted by: Zico at May 27, 2005 2:54 PM

Suzan twisted: "Oh right. On other threads you loudly decry that you are a staunch devotee of seperation of church and state. (Look how long that lasted!) But here you are applauding the extensive teaching of a religion in a secular school."

King responds - I certainly am a "staunch devotee" to the separation of church and state as you have so easily pickd up. This being said, I am equally as staunch about bridging the gaps between cultures, creeds, ideas and and religions with education. How novel. In your zeal to hate Islam you are concoting information that is not even printed in the article above! There is a distinct difference between teaching Islamic doctrine which would be clearly inappropriate and educating about Islam to bridge the rift. I am equally supportive of teaching about Christianity, Judaism et al in a purely secular format.
“This is part of having a forward thinking education department and prevention of a problem rather than cure.”

Posted by: KingTolerance at May 27, 2005 3:02 PM

Zico - Idiot? Coward? Prosletysation? Two insults and a stab at being intellectual. Seems the King is frustrating you! LOL.

"why should Islam be propagated inside secular state schools?"

Talk about ducking and diving, Zico. I never said anything of the sort. I do not see why educating people about a little known subject in the hopes of bridging ignorance gaps (chasm in your case) and promoting better understanding all around. The article above does not say one thing about propagating Islam inside of secular schools but it does say:

"There is a great deal of ignorance about major faiths, resulting in dangerous and destructive myths. The use of the new materials will help develop understanding and encourage community cohesion throughout Stockport."

and

“This is part of having a forward thinking education department and prevention of a problem rather than cure.”

Like Miss Suzie, your zeal and bigotry about Islam is blinding your brain from even reading this article properly. This means the brainwashing has worked and you are one of Mr. Spencer's little robots.

Posted by: KingTolerance at May 27, 2005 3:12 PM

There is a distinct difference between teaching Islamic doctrine which would be clearly inappropriate and educating about Islam to bridge the rift. I am equally supportive of teaching about Christianity, Judaism et al in a purely secular format.

Name-calling King of Intolerance: How do you know that the material in the Islamic "kits" distributed to the schools is secular in nature? You don't. So you are full of BS. In fact since Islam doesn't believe in seperation of church and state, it is likely "the kit" distributed to UK schoolchildren by a Muslim organization is indeed religious in nature, by definition.

Go away, Islamist troll. You are fooling no one here with your proclamation of being a "secularist."

Posted by: Suzan at May 27, 2005 3:19 PM

Boxter - I'd argue that religion in general is one of the most evil belief systems to stalk to earth. In your case, you've selected a particular flavor based on the interpretations and actions of a distinct minority.

If you bothered to take the time to see why the very countries that are striken with the most radical forms of Islam have their troubles, you'd understand where I am coming from.

Posted by: KingTolerance at May 27, 2005 3:23 PM

Suzan capitulates - "Go away, Islamist troll. You are fooling no one here with your proclamation of being a "secularist.""

King responds - you were one of the the easiest nuts to crack in a long, long time! It must be a very lonely, cold place where you are right now, Suzie. Perhaps your hatred and ignorance are comforting you right now?

Posted by: KingTolerance at May 27, 2005 3:26 PM

If KT is a "secularist" instead of a muslim troll, he shows how the Left (with the exception of a few) is going to hand our society over to the saracen hordes in the name of "tolerance".

Posted by: Carolyn2 at May 27, 2005 3:33 PM

King Troll

Your shrill invocation of the standard mantra of calling anyone you disagree with a 'bigot' reveals your desperation and nasty colours. Now, I repeat to you:

Why should Islam be propagated inside secular state schools?

Dont be a moral and intellectual coward. Give the reasons why you think this should be done and I will argue the issues with you.

Posted by: Zico at May 27, 2005 3:35 PM

Nah, Carolyn - I'm the kind of "Leftie" who keeps ignorance where it belongs - in the shadows on backwater websites such as this. I brought the fight to you and you are kicking and screaming. Good!

Posted by: KingTolerance at May 27, 2005 3:40 PM

Zico -

I've typed my reasoning several times. Either read it or shaddup!

As for desperation and nasty colors - I am not the one wrapping myself in the comfort of myths and hatred that stems from my insecurity and paranoia about the Islamic Boogey men coming to get me. Rather, I sit and dine with my multicultural friends, discuss our lives, and wonder why there is so much ignorance in the world.

Posted by: KingTolerance at May 27, 2005 3:43 PM

King Troll

There is so much ignorance in the world because of prancing popinjay's like you. Now if you arent able to answer why Islam should be propagandised inside a secular state school be humble enough to admit to it, dont dissimulate or obfuscate and excuse, answer the question an dwe can debate the matter. Like the bigots you arise from, you dont have the nerve or nouse to do so.

Posted by: Zico at May 27, 2005 3:48 PM

More obfuscation from King Troll from the CAIR thread:

I can see that King Tolerance did not respond to my response to him:

If you cannot tell the difference between the enlightenment-mediated approach to the New Testament and its status within western liberal democractic society and the literalism of Islamic belief in the Koran you are a purblind fool.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt about being a genuinely tolerant and rational person has been disproved by his silence. He is not a purblind (well meaning) fool. I fully assume with reason that he is a full grade Islamist of the kind who thinks that Jews are descended from Apes and Pigs.

What do you say, prancing popinjay?

Posted by: Zico at May 27, 2005 3:51 PM

Zico - I've laid out my argument in several posts. Read them or don't.

I do like your colorful language, though. Popinjay? Obfuscate? Looks like someone has themselves a thesaurus. LOL.

Posted by: KingTolerance at May 27, 2005 3:58 PM

Prancing Popinjay

I have read your responses and you dont answer the question. You obfuscate and wriggle and act disingenuously. You are a deviant jackanape and a hooting hooray, all bluster, no substance. If you are not interested in answering the questions just say so.

Posted by: Zico at May 27, 2005 4:02 PM

It is always refreshing to read Zico’s posts. Intelligent, informative and drives the points home.

Hulegu: You comment about Brits not needing to understand others culture shows you as ignorant about those who you think are non British. You seem to be unaware of all those, including the Chinese, Japanese, Indians (who are Buddhists or Hindus), and others who live in Britain and call themselves British. The irony is that you have the name of a wog. If Britain had understood the Islamic culture some years ago there would not be this level of Islamic pain in the neck in the UK. In a multi-cultural society it is fine to know about others culture as long as it is not rammed down your throat and the Muslim children are happy to do essays on Christ.

I have been told that some Islamic schools in the UK do not have swimming classes, music or art in their syllabus as these are regarded as unIslamic. How long before we have the first madrassa?

Pakistani and Bangladeshi boys are not dong well in the schools. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=268

Posted by: Londoner at May 27, 2005 4:20 PM

Guys:

King Tolerance is an intellectual lightweight, and if he's NOT an islamist here practicing jihad and da'wa, then he's an idiot who has the audacity to come to a site knowing NOTHING about islam and attacking those of us who've been studying its evil for years.

Don't waste your time. Let him read the qur'an, ahadith, sira (and some of Ibn Warraq's and Robert Spencer's books, if he dares) and visit all the thousands of islamist websites all over the world where they SPELL OUT their plans for a worldwide caliphate, and once he's has an education, he can come back and argue with those of us who've BOTHERED to learn the truth BEFORE we post, rather than just pontificate from ignorance.

Until then, DON'T FEED THE TROLL!

Posted by: CGW at May 27, 2005 4:29 PM

Zico blew: "If you are not interested in answering the questions just say so."

King responds: I am not interested in entertaining your tantrums and no amount of colorful peacock language can change that. I wrote my view, your inability to grasp is certainly not my problem, titmouse. (I just had to after that popinjay crack. Ha!)

CGW - You have admitedly "studied" Islam for years. Either you are obsessed with this religion, you secretly wish you could practice it, or you have nothing better to do with your time but to interpret some text. Its all the same to me, no matter how you choose to serve up your bigotry it is clear who the "troll" is here. I'm just here to offer an opposing point of few.

Posted by: KingTolerance at May 27, 2005 4:49 PM

KT says: "Boxter - I'd argue that religion in general is one of the most evil belief systems to stalk to earth"

OK KT. Now its time to name the names. Make a list. Exceptions will be noted!

Posted by: Sam Roony at May 27, 2005 4:54 PM

Time to name names? I'm afraid I do not follow what you are asking me. Name religions I think are evil belief systems?

Posted by: KingTolerance at May 27, 2005 5:03 PM

Thats about it KT! You could of course make a clear statement about religions (all of them, no exceptions). But "Religions in general" is a hedged bet. Put your money on the table!

Posted by: Sam Roony at May 27, 2005 5:11 PM

At least he admits his ignorance of the subject matter.

Hmmmmm, what do they call those who opine on subjects about which they have no knowledge?

WE have studied the basis of the threat to our civilization, and know the enemy well. Thus will Enlightened Western Civilization prevail over primitive, barbaric 7th century savagery.

Bigotry is unreasoning. We despise islam based on THE FACTS.

Posted by: CGW at May 27, 2005 5:13 PM

Islam awareness in the Christian west is fine if and ONLY if the Omari Bill is included. Omar, the second Caliphate issued this after conquering Levant (El-Sham). It details how Christians should behave, in compliance with Surah 9 (El-toba, the repentance)
- Never build a new church, monestary or even a tent inside and around the cities where they live.
- Never renovate what was destroyed of churches, monestaries
- They must feed a moslem 3 days if he opted to stay in a church
- A Christian should not object the conversion to Islam of any member of his family
- Christians should respect moslems
- Should stand up and leave seats for moslems
- They should not wear similar clothes to moslems, and never to ride a horse especially in the presence of a moslem
- Christian should hide all their books, candles and never show a cross.
- Christians should bury their deads far away from moslem cemetries, and while praying for the dead, they should read silently in the presence of a moslem.
- If Christians defaulted on any of the above, they are no longer dhimmies, but enemies ripe for salying.
http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?l=arb&taf=KATHEER&nType=1&nSora=9&nAya=29
Tafseer Ibn Katheer, El-Jihad for Ibn Taymai 2/223

Posted by: enoughisenough at May 27, 2005 5:18 PM

PS -- Does anyone here think that KT is actually a Muslim troll pretending to be a secularist? I certainly think so.

Of course he is. That was my take too before you mentioned it. Bugger off King Fraudulent.

Posted by: dennisw at May 27, 2005 5:27 PM

KingTollerance,

A. I understand far more than you want me to about Islam(Gag), I assure you.

B. You just don't get it, do you? AllahBots are not particularly liked here. So if you find some or even all of the comments objectionable you should not be surprised.

C. My guess is you are employed by an Islamic organization.

D. Tolerance is something Islam is sorely lacking. I assume you are too.

E. When do you start yelling Zionist, Pig, Jew? Your "holy koran" (Small k) is filled with superstition, lies, deceit, and incitement to violence. Denying these things does not make it true.

F. I can smell you from here.

Oh and your name is an oxymoron.

Posted by: a10billr at May 27, 2005 5:51 PM

Zico, Interested and I had a similar discussion last week, if you recall, about the narrow syllabus at the Islamia School in Nottingham and how the place could only benefit from an Ofsted inspection. Then the children would have such a vocabulary and grounding in our culture and language that they would understand what we meant when we describe the words of the Scandinavian troglodyte as a leperous distilment, most lazar-like with vile and loathsome crust.
Or that the creature itself is one of night’s black agents (which) to their preys do rouse.
It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single troll, in possession of a good keyboard, must be in want of a life.
That all animals are created equal but that pigs, apes and dogs are less equal than others.
And so on.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at May 27, 2005 6:00 PM

thank god i've got just 1 year for GCSE.

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at May 27, 2005 6:34 PM

In the UK we are taught about all religions, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Sikhism and the rest. We learn about all religions in a constructive way, this all helps in learning more about each other and realising that we are all very similar. The people here should know that the GCSE Religious Education exam paper has questions about the major religions I mentioned earlier. So during the exams a Muslim could concentrate of the Islamic questions and Christian could concentrate on the Christianity questions, however you are free to answer any question you like.

I can’t understand what makes you so angry.

All I can see here by many posters is intolerance, under this I believe there lies an intense hatred of Muslims and Islam. Can I tell you people something, I heard this from a movie the other night. The haters are the losers because to begin with the people they hate don't even know about it. Those that do know about the hatred you hold don't give a damn about it. It is you who is left with this fire in your heart, it must burn when you wake up and when you go to sleep. What for? what’s the point.

Relax, take it easy.

I can't understand the attacks on King Tolerance, he is calling these things down the middle, I really feel sorry for some of the people here. I really do.

Please calm down.

Posted by: ia786 at May 27, 2005 6:39 PM

Have you ever noticed that when we see something untoward here we all pitch in, responding to each other, capping each other’s points, adding our support to the argument? Then here new tonight, Ladies and Gentlemen, for your delectation and delight, the prestatigitous (Nosmo)King Tuppence ‘apenny....da da. Fanfare and roll of drums...
But where are ia747 and Mr Shifter to encourage and uphold him?

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at May 27, 2005 6:40 PM

Oh, he read my mind....clever boy!

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at May 27, 2005 6:41 PM

BTW, did you know that ia786 got caught at FFI posing as non-muslim "reverts"? His da'wa attempt was truly pathetic and quite hilarious.

Posted by: CGW at May 27, 2005 6:45 PM

Granny Weatherwax, are you from the UK???

Posted by: ia786 at May 27, 2005 6:47 PM

"BTW, did you know that ia786 got caught at FFI posing as non-muslim "reverts"? His da'wa attempt was truly pathetic and quite hilarious."

Caught??? Are you being serious, I couldn't give a damn about deceiving people. I brought a few people to that site, I exposed some of the fanatical Islamaphobes, I exposed their sheer hatred of Muslims, and the people saw it. We had a good laugh about those guys.

By the way let me tell you that my father himself has caused, I think 3 women to join Islam. My father has a cousin in the US and he has married a white woman. I am in the Naqshbandi Tariqah and in my area we have had countless people accept Islam, Blacks, Whites you name it. We've had Christians and even Hindus convert.

You see the thing with Islam is that it is all about the heart. My dad’s cousin’s wife came to the UK a while back and told us how she came to Islam, you know how, she asked God for guidance. Guidance came and she adopted Islam, she even wears hijab.

I know many young people in my area that have chosen Islam, I know many I have even converted one guy, through the net!!!

Posted by: ia786 at May 27, 2005 6:54 PM

CGW I did hear something to that effect, on the lines of They pretend to be my friend When all the time (sweet Bernadette)
They long to persuade you from my side (sweet Bernadette)

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at May 27, 2005 6:55 PM

I don't like the word convert, it sounds too aggressive. Its more about revealing the truth. These people are given the facts, the natural facts about Islam, how we all accept the Prophets Moses, Jesus, Noah and Muhammad. Now when people see the way we honour these Prophets they know our belief is unique. It is paramount in Islam to accept all the Prophets of God, failure to do so means ones faith in incomplete.

Many are shocked when they hear about how Jesus and Mary are honoured in the Quran. People should know that Muslims too expect the return of Jesus, I will spread this message. Islam is unique as it is universal, this is something that is truly special.

Posted by: ia786 at May 27, 2005 6:59 PM

A Sufi then?

I think I will remain in the Mothers Union.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at May 27, 2005 7:06 PM

"A Sufi then?

I think I will remain in the Mothers Union."

What do you mean by that???

By the way did you watch the football the other night!! I am a Liverpool supporter deep down, it was an incredible night!

So where are you from exactly?

Posted by: ia786 at May 27, 2005 7:09 PM

I am a Sunni/Sufi.

Posted by: ia786 at May 27, 2005 7:10 PM

" I couldn't give a damn about deceiving people."

posted by ia786

Yes, we know.

Funny how da'wa always involves deceit of one sort or another. Perhaps it's because Truth stands on its own, but islam must resort to lies and deception to gain new mobots.

ia786 was humiliated and disgraced repeatedly at FFI; you can read it all for yourself, Geoff knows the pertinent threads. He was shown to be the silly, immature, laughable little boy that he is.

BTW, kcEngland's church has converted so many UK muslims to Christianity that they had to hire a BUS to pick them all up on Sunday!

Posted by: CGW at May 27, 2005 7:10 PM

The Mothers Union is a worldwide organisation within the Anglican Communion for supporting family life.

I did see the football and was glad of the result.
And I come from Lancre, up in the Ramtops.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at May 27, 2005 7:19 PM

We have quite a few converts and descendants of converts from Islam at the church I attend. I have only met 2 converts to Islam, both were lonely people who converted for love of their eventual spouse. I have actually met more trans-sexuals than I have converts to Islam.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at May 27, 2005 7:24 PM

1a:

With your above post you confirm that you have an obvious learning disablity.
You have been posting here for quite sometime and any Non -Muzzie would have picked up something useful by now. In your case (as with Shuggi) you seem to repel knowledge like a dog shakes off water!

KT tried to present himself as a 'secular' what? His flawed reasoning, the non-existent logic , the typical Muzzie-dawaa-gaga gives him away... But that's cool baby, like a fart they come on, you let them blow and they just fade away...

Other than that I hold it with Winston Churchill, he understood the Mohammedan scourge well. Very well:

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men."
"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen: all know how to die. But the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science - the science against which it had vainly struggled - the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."

Posted by: Terminator at May 27, 2005 7:28 PM

Tolerance is not a one way street. KT obviously doesn't see it that way.

In which way is the West to benefit from Mohammedan invasion? What are the benefits of tolerating the intolerable? What have Mohammedans contributed to modern society? In the arts, medicine, architecture?

What is our gain in having Mohammedan 'culture' chip away on our freedom, our welfare system, our security and our mental health? Where is Mohammedan 'tolerance?'

If anyone can enlighten me how Mohammeds cult can contribute to make our world a better place I will gladly 'open my mind' , but I doubt that it will entice me to roll out the red carpet for the Abu Hamza's that this cult produces...

Posted by: Terminator at May 27, 2005 7:48 PM

Ia, I'm all for the use of "revealing the truth" as a phrase for conversion - the revealing of "natural facts" about Christianity, Judaism, even secularism - providing it goes all ways, which it does not, in your lexicon.

My difficulty lies in seeing what makes others so convinced that they have the situation right, against all mass of evidence and knowledge that they come to post it on a website filled with people they despite. A curious world

Some might well call the words of people here intolerance and hate - when it suits their purposes to do so, when they choose not to look a little deeper and instead spew platitudes about the greatness of their ways and the evil of the rest. You ask for understanding? Good. Then give it in return. Accept that people reading this site do not believe as you do; that they are not muslim; that they have reservations, well-founded, about islam and the manner in which it is observed; and we shall all get on fine. And they have much reason to be so: honour killings, dhimmitude, the desire for the global caliphate, the oppression of women and religious minorities, the utter lack of tolerance for homosexuals, the bitter, vengeful legal system of sharia, or even the amazingly overwhelming reactions including murders resulting from a story in which this religion is defamed. Were the Mormons out lynching people and rioting when someone made some "art" with Jesus' head in a jar of urine? Perhaps I missed those. But this is part and parcel of islam.

Or instead, you could continue to call it hatred. I myself have little doubt about the choice you'll make, but go on: surprise me. I have a great deal of pity for those entrapped by such a system. It is not for me to criticize those with diseased logical thinking processes, and I do not do so wherever possible. I instead merely criticize the disease itself. Let us work together to seek a cure rather than attack one another.

It might also be better for those who come here, label the entire audience and all the posters "haters" to relax and calm down a bit. I understand how having tenets held so deeply to your heart - for whatever emotional reason - can inflame the nerves and generate hostility, thinly veiled (there's that word again) behind electronic postings. But take it easy - no one's going to cut your head off, and if allah is so great, don't worry, we couldn't possibly destroy him, now could we? But we have our viewpoints, and we have reason for them. If you read the site, you might understand them yourself. We understand your anger and your pain; but try not to take it too much to heart.

One also might spare the calls for religious equality - but only for one side.

Please try to understand.

Imam Geoff

PS: Since we're swapping reversion stories (for which Ia seems to find some justification), I know three muslims that converted to something else (1 secular, 1 Christian, 1 Judaic) but no one so far who has converted the other way. I find them to have very deep and good feelings about their new religions; as though a veil had been lifted (so to speak). I was very grateful to be able to help two of the abovementioned people in their choice; one is getting married to a Baptist fellow next month, I believe (her family are, of course, not terribly amused...ah well).

Posted by: Geoff at May 27, 2005 8:41 PM

This is the way to breed muslims not englishmen (and ladies).

If you want Britain to be British you put the kids through an education of British culture.

If you want Britain to be Islamic you put the kids through an education of Islamic culture.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

Oh... wait a minute. Maybe the British authorities do understand. And they have chosen to put an end to British British and willfully mould their nation into Islamic Britain, a Britainistan, a province of Eurabia.

God Save the Queen (who should order her burqa soon).

Posted by: skidd at May 27, 2005 10:22 PM

Lisa wrote:

"We probably had a higher quality and more rigorous education of other religions than would ever be possible to obtain from the al-anzar mosque university in Cairo."

Hear, hear!

In fact, for at least the past 50 years (if not longer), Western higher education has included classes and research in Islamic religion & history from a standpoint of scholarly respect -- so much so that we have become extreme in our PC whitewashing of anything possibly negative about Islam.

Meanwhile, in the Muslim world we have had for the past 1350 years, in Muslim universities, madrassas, mosques, and media, mostly virulently xenophobic and hateful crap about everything non-Muslim. King Tolerance, GFYself.

Posted by: metaxy at May 27, 2005 11:50 PM

The difference between those who post here honestly and those who come to playact their "tolerance" and "love" ('King Tut-tut') ('ia666') is painfully obvious after you ask the latter any serious questions about the practical meaning and earthly effects of belief in the Koran.

Does Islam, or does it not, promote a global theocratic despotism?

That's the core question, for me.

What do our 'tolerant' ('King Tut-tut')and 'loving' ('ia666') posters answer to this?

Nothing.

They become intolerant and as slippery as an epileptic carp coated in cod liver oil.

So, although I hate to say it, I can only conclude that they are either liars, or are unable to read the book (that they claim to defend) with any sign of the least critical intelligence.

Having read the texts (Qu'ran, Hadiths, etc.), I see that there is nothing there but a lust for human tyranny, backed up by the absolutely intoxicating power of an unconscious deity (as jealous and violent as the Old Testament 'Yaweh' at its worst).

Anyone upholding and promoting this retrograde dogma has sacrificed their intellect for the vacuous comfort of security and mind slavery.

What can you say to them but:

Go back and read the Koran again.

See if it doesn't come across as an 'eternal' blueprint for a global gulag run by head-chopping religious fanatics.

I am against the quasi-theocratic communist form. Or the pseudo-theocratic fascist form. Or any world-dominating form. Secular or religious.

If the dogma opposes freedom of thought, I oppose it.

If the liars promote that dogma, I oppose them.

Posted by: BigSleep at May 28, 2005 12:43 AM

Islam is not a religion like other religions.
It is a death cult with one aim: to annihilate all non-muslim civilizations on earth and install itself as the only permitted lifestyle on the planet.

The Qur'an commands it, the muslims proclaimed it, their acts supported it. How many times do they have to repeat this before it sinks into our thick skulls that they these intolerant bastards should not be tolerated.

Posted by: skidd at May 28, 2005 12:47 AM

You cannot tolerate people who are out to annihilate you.

If you do... you get annihilated.

No ifs, buts, or maybes. For sure.

Civilizations Destroyed By Islam:

Civilizations in Arabian Peninsula:
1. Nabatian Kingdom
2. Hejaz Civilization
3. Heira Kingdom
4. Yemenese Civilization
5. Lakhmid Kingdom
6. Mazun State Society
7. Humyarite Kingdom
8. Hadramaut Civilization

Civilizations in Africa:
1. Egyptian Empire
2. Carthaginian Empire (Tunis)
3. Siranaeek Kingdom (Libya)
4. Nubian Kingdom (Sudan)

Civilizations in Asia:
1. Phoenician Civilization (Lebanon)
2. Sham Civilization (Syria)
3. Anatolia (Turkey)

(See 'Islam a Dangerous Political Ideology')

Posted by: skidd at May 28, 2005 1:11 AM

Just checked out Ali Sina's FFI for some postings of 1a678:

Hilarious! The guy (1a) calls himself an"Englishman"- rants against 'immodesty' and how western women are 'corrupted' and 'marketed'- turns out he is a sexual spastic, completely gaga!

Ali Sina broke it off with him since he is a true rep of the asylum, and I suspect that's where he is writing from.

Take off the coffee-filter, 1a, and stay away from the Finley mosque, its not a cure, its the disease!

You might be interested that the porn-industry in Europe caters especially to muzzies (Arabi moaning and groaning!) since they seem to be most needy of their services. Other than that, the porn-industry has been in steady decline over the last decade or so. Thanks to Muzzies it is thriving again!

So our welfare payments are being recycled into Arabic porn! Hilarious!

Posted by: Terminator at May 28, 2005 1:14 AM

well put, Big Sleep.

skidd -- you left out the Zoroastrians in your list of peoples/cultures virtually annihilated by Muslims.

And then there are peoples whom the Muslims TRIED to annihilate (Armenians, Hindus, Buddhists, and polytheists in SE Asia).

Posted by: metaxy at May 28, 2005 1:53 AM

carolyn,

"If KT is a "secularist" instead of a muslim troll, he shows how the Left (with the exception of a few) is going to hand our society over to the saracen hordes in the name of "tolerance"."

We will probably eventually defeat Islam, but the millions of Western Leftists like King Tolerance will only help to ensure that more of us die than need to, by irrationally hampering the process of defending our liberal progressive civilization.

Posted by: metaxy at May 28, 2005 2:49 AM

metaxy,

Thanks for the note on the Zoroastrians, and the other peoples that Islam tried to annihilate. It is high time that civilized people everywhere realize what these bastards are, and check them before they reach critical mass (25-30% of the population, which Europe is heading towards).

The western PC liberals don't realize that they are feeding a crocodile that will eat them when it matures. Will the crocodile be grateful to them for helping it? No. Why? Cos these Useful Idiots are infidels. And they get the same three options as other infidels:

a. Become a muslim
b. Pay a heavy tax to be a humiliated subservicent dhimmi to your muslim overloads
c. Have your neck sawed off by a blade, the sword of Islam.

Have your pick, KT.

Human decency? Not here. These Islamobots only do what the bloody Qur'an and their maniac mullahs allow. Gratefulness? Not in the book.

These people are grim.

Posted by: skidd at May 28, 2005 4:24 AM

These people are grim.

I have been known to call it Grislam.
The Grisly Islamics
That could be a wonderful "Horrible History" for Key Stage 1 and 2, to match the Terrible Tudors and the Smashing Saxons, but no one would believe it. And while humour is a good weapon, the Horrible Historys are just too much good fun to do the religion of peace (my arse) justice.

http://www.terry-deary.com/shop/pages/horrhistory.html

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at May 28, 2005 5:03 AM

King Troll

I have respect for men, men who lock horns and take the bait and speak of their convictions. For fey and pathetic ones who squeal and stomp their feet and know only idiocy, I have no respect. Therefore, I have no respect for you.

Granny Weatherwax

Thanks. Yes, You know, if Islam is going to be propagandised in secular state schools in the name of race relations over and above and in addition to the normal religious studies criteria, then we should demand that all Muslim children are exposed to the same level of instruction on Christianity, Judaism and the other religion that does more to enrage Muslims by its very existence, Hinduism. As they want to propagandise, so shall they learn from others.

Nobody in Britain has any problem with the secular and peaceful tolerant and plural settlement except for sections of the Muslim community (and their prancing buffoonish disciples like King Troll)

Posted by: Zico at May 28, 2005 5:35 AM

Granny W - I haven't posted here for a bit as I've been wrestling with the leftoids at Harry's Place (they don't half give me a hard time but the counter da'wa continues) and also I've been involved in 'real life', you know that thing that happens to you when you wrench yourself away from the keboard:-)

However, I'd just like to say that your posts, always amusing, are quite stupendous on this thread. Grislam indeed. Don't know what you've been smoking, but can I have some?

I was intrigued to learn that you have met more transexuals than converts to Islam. One thing's for sure, we've probably all met more transexuals than we know about. But if I had to convert to Islam I'd probably have the op (the medical term is 'strapodictome') as men seem to have a better time.

This has been a good thread - if you think King Tolerance is bad, they are all like him at Harry's Place!!

Posted by: Interested at May 28, 2005 6:10 AM

Zico,

We err when we think muslims are like the rest of the civilised people on the planet - who like to learn about others and be enriched by other people's cultures.

These people are only interested in one thing: making your culture, and society, Islamic. That means replacing your nation's constitution with the Koran. Period.

Getting a proper British education, be a good British citizen, learn about the neighbour's cultures so you can be a good neighbour? They are not interested. They already know what you are. You are a non-believing infidel who goes to hell. And you are filthy. Do you know in muslim lands infidels are not allowed in the rain, lest they spray some rain water from their skin onto the muslims?

These people are not like others. Where other peoples give generously to help victims of the recent tsunami tragedy, any victim, the muslims were hesitant to give cos they were worried their aid might go to non-muslim victims. In Europe, as elsewhere, they won't adopt the host countries' culture or values however civil they are, they don't assimilate.

They have only one interest: to turn your country into an Islamic one, as the Qur'an dictates - a totalitarian mullahtocractic hellhole.

Posted by: skidd at May 28, 2005 6:17 AM

Indoctinating children in Islam to promote "multi-racial harmony."

Islam is not a race. Islam is an ideology which is the antithesis of Westernism.

Posted by: WatchfulEye at May 28, 2005 10:52 AM

ia786;I don't like the word convert, it sounds too aggressive. Its more about revealing the truth. These people are given the facts, the natural facts about Islam, how we all accept the Prophets Moses, Jesus, Noah and Muhammad. Now when people see the way we honour these Prophets they know our belief is unique. It is paramount in Islam to accept all the Prophets of God, failure to do so means ones faith in incomplete.

Believe what you like. The proof is in the pudding . Islam is not the tolerant religion you are trying to portray. You are either a liar, ignorant or a fool. You are wasting your time on here and at FFI.

We know that KingofTalkingCr@ap is probably all three.

Posted by: ReligionOfPeaceMyArse at May 28, 2005 2:26 PM

I'd probably have the op (the medical term is 'strapodictome') as men seem to have a better time.

This has been a good thread - if you think King Tolerance is bad, they are all like him at Harry's Place!!

Posted by: Interested at May 28, 2005 06:10 AM

LOL

Posted by: Carolyn2 at May 28, 2005 3:37 PM

OT-

A baby sparrow (they all look like little feathery Edward G. Robinsons) which fell out of an unreachable nest, and was evidently not noticed by God (somebody must have the exact quote on this), is in my care now, so I am feeding it baby food (veal and veal broth) and the little bugger is chirping merrily -after a few toothpicks full of the paste- as I type. And looks as if it will make it. (To the annoyance of my cats.)

Sometimes we have to assume that the Universe will not run to the humane benefit of its helpless creatures, if left to the 'divine' dogmatic directive, and we need to interrupt the course of the Creator's perfect plan.

Of course, in Islam I assume I'd be beheaded for this intervention against Allah's will.

(If it was an orphaned baby pig, I'm sure of it.)

Posted by: BigSleep at May 28, 2005 4:04 PM

Big Sleep

Are not sparrows two a penny? Yet without your Father’s leave not one of them can fall to the ground. Matthew 10:29.

And of course God noticed the little creature, why else did he send you to care for it. I’m so glad it’s thriving under your protection, sparrows are declining in many areas of the UK. My cats prefer mice.

This has indeed been a wide ranging thread, which shows the depth and breadth of experience posting here. Prancing popinjay - priceless. And I must remember the correct term strapodictome. How did you learn that?

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at May 28, 2005 4:51 PM

I know a few muslims who have converted to Christianity. Unfortunately, they are all in hiding. Wonder why. Given the fear that muslim converting to Christianity have, it is understandable why I do not know a larger number.

Muslims try to convince us that they "accept" all the prophets. What does this acceptance actually mean? How can one accept the teachings of Jesus, which are pacifist, and yet accept the teachings of mohammed, which are violent and murderous at the core?

The tragedy for muslims is that they do not know how much revulsion their religion is held in. That revulsion is a consequence of the actions of muslims as guided by the koran. This revulsion has reached such proportions, that the state has to do something to revert a breakdown in the peace of the nation. Hence all these lessons in school about islam. No such lessons are required for other religions.

There is no doubt in my mind that this crazy "religion" by a crazy man, is in for a demise, and the world can live a more peaceful existence.

Posted by: DP111 at May 28, 2005 7:10 PM

There shall be no proselytizing in public schools. Period. End of Discussion.

Posted by: epg at May 30, 2005 9:20 PM