Islamicisation alert. Infidels - it doesn't matter whether you want to be Muslim or not, you'll have to act as if you are in order not to raise the ire of Muslims. That's the underlying message here - and elsewhere:

US soldiers are being obliged to handle the Koran with the same reverence as if they were Muslims themselves.

Just as Christian women in southern and central Iraq are finding it increasingly convenient to cover themselves: -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35086-2004Dec29.html

Just as lingerie advertisers in Britain are deeming it prudent not to put billboards up in Muslim-heavy locations: -
http://specials.rediff.com/news/2004/mar/18shyam.htm

Just as non-Muslims in Indonesia 'blend in' by doing a little fasting during Ramadan: -
http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2003-11/21/article05.shtml

And so on.

Islam is like a vortex. It only takes a few sentences to get sucked in. It takes... Well, what does it take to get out?

Posted by: Effractor at June 10, 2005 3:39 PM

If this is the way our leaders want us to fight the war on terror,,then we may as well convert to islam and admit we lost our country to a 7th century barbaric tribe.

Posted by: adela at June 10, 2005 4:19 PM

Effractor is correct -- we are being drawn into a vortex against our will. A tiny number of Muslims are dictating policy in this country. This is absurd and totally unacceptable.

The implications of Koran handling are clear: we are are unclean and not fit to handle the book. This attitude of Muslims, this disdain and contempt in which Muslims hold us gives me the urge to do something rash to the Koran rather than to show it the respect that they demand.

Muslims must learn this one vital fact in order to get along with non-Muslims in the United States:

ATTITUDE IS EVERYTHING!!!!

Sorry for the caps. I'm be surprised if you can't hear me from where I am. Maybe they will understand if enough Americans scream this message and demand respect from them!!!!!

Posted by: epg at June 10, 2005 4:27 PM

This obsequious groveling sickens me.
These terrorists should be treated humanely.
That means sufficient food, shelter, clothing, medical care. And that's all!
Wake up, government leaders!
This is plain wrong.

Posted by: Marine Mom at June 10, 2005 4:32 PM

King's point: You're so busy condemning radical Muslims that you fail to see what history has taught us - which is, that ANY RELIGION IS SUBJECT TO RADICALISM, EVEN YOUR PRECIOUS CHRISTIANITY.

kt~ I am getting seriously SICK of you repeating that mantra.

You can't point to ONE sinlge instance of Christianity's mistakes that is less than a CENTURY OLD.

And we have both learned from, and put those BEHIND US. Long behind us. Never to be Repeated.

The paranoid likes of giaour notwithstanding.

When we see Christianity killing people around the world, TODAY, EVERY DAY-

Then you can mope about it.

In the meantime, we shall continue to watch, report upon, comment upon, and hopefully, SURVIVE what ISLAM is doing TODAY, EVERY DAY, IN VIRTUALLY EVERY COUNTRY ON THE GLOBE.

Posted by: Gary at June 10, 2005 4:47 PM

I would like to know who these "Islamic consultants" are who apparently have pulled the wool over the eyes of our government. What a crock of shit. Give me a Koran and I will take a dump on it, and express my revereence for Moohamsee - poopoo upon him.

The war is lost with our leaders demanding the humiliation of our soldiers. Has anyone in this Administration read anything other than some "the glory of islam" synopsis by some dhimmi 'expert' like Karen Armstrong or John Esposito.

It's not just sad, it is witnessing resignation of our society and culture.

Posted by: reset at June 10, 2005 5:02 PM

Gary - Where is Christianity killing people??? You are confusing Christians with Christianity. Christians kill people but not in the name of their religion. If they do so it's not Christianity they are practicing, but paganism.

Posted by: epg at June 10, 2005 5:09 PM

Frankly, the koran should be delivered in a haz mat suit. The frickin' crock of b.s. is radioactive.

Posted by: 3812Michelle at June 10, 2005 5:10 PM

epg, he is saying "WHEN Chistianity STARTS doing the slaughter thing ...THEN the aplogests can start moping.

:) have a good one maingk .

My take on this is still the same .........

Giving these guys a koran in gitmo is like giving a crackhead a vial of rock cocaine while they sit in jail. It is just not right.
And not very smart.

Posted by: AvrageJoe at June 10, 2005 5:35 PM

Personally, I think handling the kookran with rubber gloves is a good idea... at least you'd keep that filth off of your fingers.

Posted by: SexyKafira1 at June 10, 2005 5:52 PM

The koran is a filthy book in more ways then one. Perhaps it is wise to wear goves, when handling a deadly and contagious article, such as the koran

Posted by: DP111 at June 10, 2005 6:08 PM

Gee, If they get all mad when they hear rumors of Quran desecration then I wonder what they'll say when they see these videos,

Posted by: Quenton at June 10, 2005 6:14 PM

Quenton Collins? :P

epg~ I'm merely repeating something I said to kt yesterday- with the intent of repaying annoyance for annoyance. Probably not the best thing, but I've been working outside in 30+ (C) heat all week and have no strength left to do more :P

Have a Safe weekend, everyone.

Posted by: Gary at June 10, 2005 6:19 PM

Efractor: what does it take to get out of the Islamic vortex? To serve them as the Knights of Malta did in Malta, the Austrians and Poles at the walls of Vienna, Sivaji in India... Even at the height of their power, Muslims were not undefeatable. Resolute and united action could shatter even the most enormous forces fielded by the Great Mughal or the Lord of the Horizon at the height of their bloody splendour. Historically, Islam has always prevailed over weak or divided enemies. Unity and resolution always cracked it. Venice and Vienna never fell, because no Venetian or German ever thought of dealing with the Turks to strike at his enemies; Hungary did (till the Habsburgs rescued it), because the Turks found a Hungarian nobleman willing to be puppet-king under them rather than acknowledge the Habsburg Emperor as king.

So it is today. Unity and agreement will give us the victory. But as long as, for instance, the Democrats care more for beating Bush than for anything else, the enemy will always have a point of purchase from which to exercise force.

Posted by: Paolo at June 10, 2005 6:39 PM

It may be conspiracy theory but I’ve read that the secret societies that some of our lawmakers belong to must take an oath on the Koran when they’ve attained a certain degree. Isn’t President Bush a member of a similar society?

http://www.ao.net/~jmo/john/personal/masons.html

“In order for a person to become a Shriner, he must not only go through all the degrees of Masonry, make all those blood-curdling oaths, worship gods who are not gods except they are of Satan, but he must make a blood both of allegiance to Allah as his god and Mohammed as his prophet.”

Is this old news? What a disappointment seeing this was for me.

Muhammad's Image inside the US Supreme Court

http://www.geocities.com/khola_mon/SCFrieze1.html

Posted by: Chico VonVenzel at June 10, 2005 7:03 PM

Sorry folks for being way off topic but I thought many might find this useful.

The BBC has recorded all of Beethoven's symphonies and is making them available for downloading in MP3 format.

The first five are now up. NOTE the schedule as the first five are only available until June 13 nd 14. The remaining four are to follow over the next few weeks.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/beethoven/downloads.shtml

Posted by: johnb at June 10, 2005 7:43 PM

"The BBC has recorded all of Beethoven's symphonies..."

Not off-topic at all. Beethoven and Company, produced for posterity by the civilization of Western Infidels.

Posted by: Hugh at June 10, 2005 8:59 PM

Terminator responds:

KT: (stand for Kitman & Taqiyya)

Your hysterics give you away.

Your limited ability to debate issues give you away. Your kitman/taqiyya gives you away.

You make no point. You are calling me racist without knowing what race I am.
You are calling me religious bigot without knowing whether I am religious or an atheist.
You are repeating the same lines (and lies) too often not to be a Mohammedan.
You are calling me 'xenophobic' without knowing that my family and my business spans worldwide and includes many nationalities and different races.

Your history is too selective for you not to be a Mohammedan.
Make sure you use UHU to glue your coffee-filter to your head and be sure not to fart when you prey to Mekka!

Posted by: Terminator at June 10, 2005 9:10 PM

Terminator responds:

King of Islamic "Tolerance"

Your hysterics give you away.

Your limited ability to debate issues give you away. Your kitman/taqiyya gives you away.

You make no point. You are calling me racist without knowing what race I am.
You are calling me religious bigot without knowing whether I am religious or an atheist.
You are repeating the same lines (and lies) too often not to be a Mohammedan.
You are calling me 'xenophobic' without knowing that my family and my business spans worldwide and includes many nationalities and different races.

Your history is too selective for you not to be a Mohammedan.
Make sure you use UHU to glue your coffee-filter to your head and be sure not to fart when you prey to Mekka!

Posted by: Terminator at June 10, 2005 9:22 PM

Terminator responds:

King of Islamic "Tolerance"

Your hysterics give you away.

Your limited ability to debate issues give you away. Your kitman/taqiyya gives you away.

You make no point. You are calling me racist without knowing what race I am.
You are calling me religious bigot without knowing whether I am religious or an atheist.
You are repeating the same lines (and lies) too often not to be a Mohammedan.
You are calling me 'xenophobic' without knowing that my family and my business spans worldwide and includes many nationalities and different races.

Your history is too selective for you not to be a Mohammedan.
Make sure you use UHU to glue your coffee-filter to your head and be sure not to fart when you prey to Mekka!

Posted by: Terminator at June 10, 2005 9:22 PM

Sorry 'bout the triple post, was not intended. Give you a song to cheer you up

http://www.terrorists-suck.org/fight/the_shoe_bomber.mp3

Posted by: Terminator at June 10, 2005 10:41 PM

This is caused by the left media such as newsweek and the nyt and the civil rights groups (which are really socialist fronts)like amnesty international and the marxist homosexual slime that work at the aclu. To smooth over this damage done to us by these scum, the US government now thinks it has to show the world how tolerant we are. Well I'm not the only one who says screw that!

You can thank the democrats and the left wing liberals and their relatives the political anti-American deviants for this policy.

Posted by: Cross at June 10, 2005 10:49 PM

I have sent the following email to the Command Master Chief of the Navy's Chaplain Corps.

Others may wish to address similar questions directly to the senior U.S. Navy Muslim chaplain.

Master Chief Terry,

I'm sure there are numerous good and rational reasons for implementing the unique procedures which non-Muslim American miltary guards must follow when handling a Gitmo detainee's Quran.

But, shipmate, for the life of me, I cannot imagine what they might be. And as an American citizen, I'm concerned. I hope you can enlighten me.

1) In specific, why are non-Muslim servicemembers required to handle a detainee's Quran in a manner seemingly more respectful and reverent than that which those very servicemembers might utilize when handling the sacred documents of their own religions?

2) Who directed the implementation of these procedures?

3) Are such procedures unique to the non-Muslim guard/Muslim detainee environment?

4) Do American Muslim military chaplains agree that such procedures are Islamically mandated?

5) What impact would the ungloved handling of a detainee's Quran by a Christian, or Jewish, or other non-Islamic servicemember have on Gitmo's Battlefield Combatant detainees?

Master Chief, I'm looking forward to your reply.

God Bless You,

XXXXXX XXXXXX
PRCS (Ret)

Posted by: PRCS at June 10, 2005 11:39 PM

Muslims still pull out the Timothy McVeigh example and point out that the media didn't label him a "Christian-Terrorist".

I guess they're too stupid to know how to use a PC to go online to do research on the internet,if they had done a Google search for McVeigh the
http://www.jaynadavis.com/main.html link would appear and McVeigh's Jihadist connection from his Gulf war stay in Saudi Arabia where he was recruited by Islamists looking for anti-government
soldiers that could be brainwashed into working for Allah to punish the Zionists puppets in America that make weapons for the Jewish pigs to kill Palestinian children.

Last night a story of a hijacked Semi that
was never found and driver still missing
doesn't seem to have hit the MSM,if anyone has a link to the article please post it.

The rig was driving through Arkansa and the payload was 6000 pounds of fertilizer with the
potentian of have just a fraction of it mixed with
household chenmicals to cause a Murrah building
style bombing.

The report was from truckers that were asked
to watch for this semi since the police saw no
trace of a crash along the highway route where
radio contact stopped and requests for
a response never came back from the driver
who was on the airwave that night providing
information as truckers do when traffic of accident force a change in routes.

Posted by: ala-sux at June 10, 2005 11:45 PM

Cross-

I'm afraid that the current administration heading the government (unless they are bending over literally for the "marxist homosexual slime" you mention) are the ones implementing this cringing policy of lickspittle obeisance to Imperialistic Islam.

They were the fools who brought the prisoners within reach of the American lawyers who would be willing to 'use' the Constitution in order to defend those who would destroy it.

Instead of simply legally shooting them in Afghanistan, Iraq, or wherever they were caught- as "spies, saboteurs and terrorists".

If you dance naked into a pack of starved hyenas, don't be surprised to lose a pound of flesh (or worse).

If you bring "illegal combatants" into the Western Hemisphere -near enough for the Supreme Court (who recently recognized Satanism and witchcraft as "respectable mainstream religions")-then you have to expect that the cases of the "poor, misunderstood terrorists" will be appealed all the way up to the Numbskull Nine.

Rumsfeld, Bush, Cheney, et al, are all to blame for this maddenly insidious nonsense.

Someone should smack them on the side of the head with a Koran.

Hardback.

Tooled leather.

Hobnail edging.

Written in blood.

Many, many times.

Posted by: BigSleep at June 10, 2005 11:47 PM

They didn't give Nazi prisoners copies of "Mien Kampf". So why are they giving terrorists copies of the Quran?

Posted by: Infidel One at June 11, 2005 2:41 AM

OT. For those of you who were afraid that Grover Nordquist might turn out to be Muslim convert, do not worry: he is only a prostitute.
http://www.mrc.org/BozellColumns/entertainmentcolumn/2005/col20050609.asp
Evidently he loves the colour of Muslim money as much as that of pornographers and other rich crooks.

Posted by: Paolo at June 11, 2005 5:02 AM

Paolo

I agree with your central argument, that resistance rather than concession after concession is the only way to quell Islam's advance. But state actors in the period you cite were very different from state actors today. For one, they were far less accountable to public opinion than now. A highly audible part of today's will always howl with rage at any illiberal and 'racist' measures to taken preserve our occidental heritage:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1648190,00.html

That has to be faced down, but it is hard to believe that schisms won't result.

Second, if there is to be a conflict it will certainly take more than one form. After Iraq we can assume American enthusiam for conventional military operations in that sphere has dimmed significantly. And of course, much of the threat comes from within (the good burghers of Vienna never had to fight against fellow taxpayers - or welfare claimants come to that).

My great fear is that the West lacks the stomach to resist - not because of the effort involved but because of the loss of liberal identity it implies (something that is engrained in mainstream culture). I read a story a while back about the growing Dutch exodus from their country (apologies, no link). The gist of it was that many would rather leave than remain and find themselves becoming un-Dutch in the process, ie through the supposed illiberalism and intolerance that events there were bringing out in people.

This may be intrinsic to Holland but I think it resonates elsewhere, certainly in Europe. It's not for this forum, of course, but the response to Mexicanisation may also be instructive in the US.

Re the vortex, I was actually thinking at a personal level. The fact that you need only recite a few sentences and hey presto, you're Muslim, seems emblematic of Islam. No question of being ready for the religion, just effectively: 'Come on in, the water's fine!' Next to the Scientologists waving their stress test at you on the street, there's not a whole lot of difference.

Posted by: Effractor at June 11, 2005 5:58 AM

Well as a former soldier in the US Army - I'm surprised that any officer would allow this to happen to any soldier. But, sometimes we expect so much from our soldiers, it's better to compy then to deal with all the sh*t that comes along with it.

We will never win the war on terror cow-towing to someone elses religious book.

The fact that we are even handling the Quran this way is admmitting this is a war of religions, ideas, and cultures...OOPS!

Posted by: Laurel at June 11, 2005 9:28 AM

Laurel-

You forgot a few words in your final paragraph:

"The fact that we are even handling the Quran this way is admitting that [WE ARE ALREADY LOSING] this ... war of religions, ideas, and cultures..."

And it appears we will continue to lose until a WMD hits.

(I'm starting to think we should pray for it, soon, since nothing else appears likely to rouse the slumbering stooges in the West to the threat before it is too late, and the Muslim demographics, p.c. erosion of the Constitution, parallel invasion from Mexico ["La Raza"], China [adopted 'throwaway' little girls and sub rosa illegals], etc. combine to weaken the U.S. beyond salvaging.)

Not a cheerful prospect.

But I no longer see any backbones working for America. Only boo-hoo-hooing suckers inviting their own doom.

Posted by: BigSleep at June 11, 2005 9:52 AM

Infidel One:

Yeah, the first thing I thought of was that sex offenders aren't given copies of Hustler in their cells, and pedophiles aren't allowed visits from their children, so what's with the double standard here?

Posted by: BorgQueen at June 11, 2005 9:57 AM

What next? Will the American Library Association instigate similar policies..the white glove treatment for copies of Korans on library shelves? And, think about all of those unclean hands at Barnes & Noble and Borders bookstores rifling through copies of the Koran without white gloves? What if a customer has a broken right hand and holds the Koran only with his/her left hand? I shutter at the thought. Maybe the only answer to satisfy Muslims is for ALL copies of the Koran to be removed from libraries,(including prison libraries) bookstores and Gitmo. It would help salve so many Muslim bruised feelings and take the Koran out of the American public square.

Posted by: maryrose at June 11, 2005 10:29 AM

Marxist homosexual slime correctly describes most of the people who work for the aclu. Which we all know is funded by All the taxpayers but yet the aclu does Not defend all the people equally. It operates with double standards, only defending people that support the leftist agenda.

The leader of the aclu is Anthony D. Romero.

He is the first latino and openly gay man to serve in that capacity.

His major concerns are affirmative action and lesbian/gay rights.

He said that he would make gay rights the number one issue in America.

I seek the social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal.
~ACLU founder Roger Baldwin

There you have it, the aclu is a group of homosexual communists that are supported by the taxpayers. And yet they are demanding that all churches lose Their tax exempt status!

Why are they tax exempt? They should lose this status.

PS: "Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."
-- Winston Churchill

Posted by: Cross at June 11, 2005 1:01 PM

And they wonder why recruitment in the services is down ?!!!! No fecking wonder !! Sorry for the expletives but people are being killed in a conflict on many fronts but these very people the marines are being asked to kowtow to ?!! We ask marines who have put their very lives on the line and expect them to grovel around these terrorists?!! Fecking hell, where did things go wrong?!!! You know what ? Shut Gitmo, send them back to whatever cave they were living in or back to their village or whatever. Tag them or something, lets see where they show up.

Posted by: TooBad at June 11, 2005 7:49 PM

Cross-

I read a similar quote to yours (from Erroll Flynn, of all people, in his autobiography) as:

"Anyone who is not a communist at 20 has no heart; anyone who is still a communist at 30 has no brains."

Paraphrasing Churchill?

I gave up on the ACLU as anything but a travelling circus when they forced the people of Skokie, IL (many of whom were Holocaust survivors), to endure a march by the Nazis through their neighborhood... to show how 'tolerent' we are supposed to be.

The only thing Nazis on the march deserve are land mines.

(And some claymores when they start running.)

The Constitution is not a suicide pact isn't among the ACLU's literature, clearly.

Posted by: BigSleep at June 11, 2005 8:36 PM

See you guys! I am considerd a 'radical'- thanks god you are with me.

Yes indeed:

How can we honestly expect our boys ( and I met many of them on my recent trip to Guam: They are the best of the best!)

Yes how do we expect them to fight (a ragtag bunch of desert monkeys who have no values at all but hate and ignorance and stupidity) by standards that would never be granted to them, (if Islamics were to get their hands on them) by telling them to fight without winning, by sending them to get killed without killing the enemy, no Sir: Either we are there to win or we should not be there!

Pull out tomorrow or make sure the enemy is destroyed ...

Our government sux....

Posted by: Terminator at June 13, 2005 6:05 AM

Robert,

“The fact is, under Islamic law, non-Muslims are deemed unfit to touch the Koran. That much is generally known….”

That's a pretty unequivocal statement. I am curious as to where precisely Islamic law states that non-Muslims are deemed unfit to touch the Quran, since in my experience, the converse is true, Islam being the aggressively missionary faith that it is. In fact, many Muslims are so convinced of the divinity and beauty of the Quran, they feel a non-Muslim has only to read the Quran to be convinced of its divine authorship, hence the use of the Quran as a proselytising tool.

Could you please quote the precise injunction (chapter and verse) where *Islamic law* forbids non-Muslims to touch the Quran?

Posted by: Ganymede at June 13, 2005 8:29 AM