Onward, gallant steeds of Budweiser! Forward, Johnny Walker, hand-in-hand with Jack Daniels! A wee dram of The Macallan never seemed so earthshakingly important. When the local authorities turn down this outrageous request, and show they will not kowtow to would-be Muslim masters, perhaps the trattoria could treat its customers, that first night on the terrace, to champagne.

And those corks will fly up not, as in Eugene Onegin, pryamo v potolok, right to the ceiling, but in the open air, a la belle etoile, those freed corks will go up and up, with no ceiling to bring them or us down to earth, and the sky's the limit.

Those drinks, symbolically, are on us, for us, by us, even those of us who never touch the stuff but are rooting now for the side of Demon Rum and all those little demons. And so is the shade of Omar Khayyam.

Posted by: Hugh at June 19, 2005 3:26 PM

Alcohol is part of Scottish culture, history, and economics. That's a fact.

The summers have been getting warmer in Scotland for several years now. That, I believe, is also a fact.

Outdoor drinking terraces were virtually unknown several years ago because the climate was most often cool and rainy, even in summer. Far better to enjoy your pint or dram inside by the fireplace, away from the wind and the rain.

Now with the opportunity given by the changing climate, the Scots have finally got the chance to raise a dram in the open air, while enjoying the sunshine on their faces - and what happens?

This logical cultural development is opposed by some local Islamic charities (?) who see alcohol as evil, and - this is unstated here but most likely also a factor - especially if it involves mixed socializing of men and (horrors!)women, who might not even be married to each other!

And I know that the UK has its problem now with Neds (drunken young hooligans), but nonetheless, raising that "nip" of Glenfiddich in a toast, still has an air of gentility and refinement about it.

I predict the local council will permit this open-air drinking terrace to go ahead. I know the Scots very well: they'll not take kindly to this attempt at cultural control.

Posted by: Jen at June 19, 2005 3:46 PM

It has been a beautiful hot day here in London, and I've been sitting outside at The Spaniards on Hampstead Lane drinking alcohol in mixed company. Stoning's too good for me.

There seems to be no idea of self-discipline in Islam. If Muslims don't feel they should drink alcohol, fine. If they don't believe in sex before marriage, fine. But if they were really that virtuous they wouldn't need women, alcohol etc to be out of sight.

Hypocrites.

Cheers!

Posted by: Interested at June 19, 2005 3:55 PM

Pity nobody videos them in Rio during Carnival.

Posted by: Cynic at June 19, 2005 4:03 PM

Drinking a glass of wine on a street terrace is an inalienable european human right. It seems now that this is may be turning into an act of resistance.

Posted by: Sebastien at June 19, 2005 4:07 PM

Hmmmn. Actually, I think the Muslims should be encouraged to start carping about Europeans enjoying alcoholic beverages out on patios. That might finally be the straw that breaks the back of European tolerance.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at June 19, 2005 4:14 PM

"I've been sitting outside at The Spaniards on Hampstead Lane drinking alcohol in mixed company. Stoning's too good for me."
-- from a posting above

A very funny remark by the Fair Maid of Islington.

Posted by: Hugh at June 19, 2005 5:21 PM

From the piece: "We've no objection if it is being done inside but selling alcohol on the footpath is a temptation to our young people."

By "footpath", did this century delayed whiner mean the sidewalk?

Is this not another example Islamic weakness and lack of self discipline? Not to mention the lack of trust in the will power of their "young people"?

So, the world is supposed to rearrange itself because Muslims are weak spirited and carry no self-confidence?

How bout' NO, Islam.

Posted by: DCWatson at June 19, 2005 5:29 PM

Another enflamed Muslim group offended by the very people who allowed them to immigrant into their country. The Muslims came to Scotland of their own free wills. The offended Muslims should also be reminded that they can leave of their own free will and return to the land without sidewalk cafes. I sincerely hope that the good people of Glasgow enjoy their dining and drinks and lots of summer sunshine. Cheers to them!

Posted by: maryrose at June 19, 2005 5:45 PM

I wissch to object, hic, to the obsthruction of my viewth of thhe bar, or from thhe bar, hic, by alien interlopeerths who do not apprethi8 my diversititity ! hic. Or cluthure ! double hic hic!

Not that I am advocating alcohol abuse, I hasten to add; I like alcohol, I would never insult it with abuse. No, this is where we draw the line. At last. Objecting to the Mecca Bingo hall was funny, objecting to china pigs was infuriating, ditto the porking lot car park. Now it's serious.

Fair Maid of Islington, in my youth (many, many years ago) I went to Hampstead Fair with a couple of male friends, on the dodge'ems, taking turns which young man's car I rode on. Never mind stoning, they would have my head off soon as blink!

I read some of the comments on that Harry's Place blog you mentioned. Do you find them very hard work? You must have enormous patience.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 19, 2005 5:58 PM

Bloody hypocrites. Muhammed promises his followers wine in the afterlife.

"Koran 47:15
Here is a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised. In it are...rivers of wine...

Koran 37:40-48
But the true servants of God shall be well provided for,...they shall be served with goblet filled at a gushing fountain, white and delicious to those who drink it. It will neither dull their senses nor befuddle them.

Koran 56:7-40
They shall recline on jewelled couches face to face, and there shalt wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine:

Koran 83:23-26
The righteous will surely dwell in bliss. Reclining upon soft couches they will gaze around them: and in their faces you shall mark the glow of joy. They shall be given a pure wine to drink, securely sealed, whose very dregs are musk... "

The X-rated paradise of Islam

This is the kind of moral logic that would promise Christian adherents ("thou shalt not kill") license to murder people in the afterlife as a reward for showing some restraint in that capacity on earth.

If drinking alcohol is immoral, then why is it promised as a reward in heaven?

The answer is obvious. Muhammed was an immoral charlatan.

Posted by: Caroline at June 19, 2005 6:00 PM

Enough of this 'Asian Community' nonsense!

It is Muslims, Muslims, Muslims, not Hindus or Sikhs or Buddhists!

I share many a drink with my Indian friends and if you know where to go, you can enjoy a nice evening in an Indian pub in a Punjabi area of London like Southall.

So enough of these false names to hide what is a specifically Muslim, and not an 'Asian' problem.

Posted by: Zico at June 19, 2005 6:03 PM

a nice evening in an Indian pub

Or a nice Indian beer at home if you can't get a babysitter. Cobra and Kingfisher are the obvious ones but there are others.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 19, 2005 6:16 PM

Granny W - you are a shameless hussy. Dodgem cars are the devil's work. Granny Weatherwax al Shaitani - you deserve to have your brains split in two, then a bit more, then stuffed back in your hussy head, then split again and then, God, don't they get a bit bored with this stuff.

Glad you've been on Harry's Place - I post there as Old Peculier and get a lot of flak, but a lot of private emails, particularly from women (it's a very blokey site) in support of my criticisms of Islam.

The Lefties need to be convinced. Part of the problem is that a lot of the people on that site are atheists- they think all religions are nonsense and can't distinguish nonsense from dangerous nonsense.

'Fair maid of Islington' - hmm! Well I'm very much a brunette, both in appearance and character, and as for the other....but I live in Islington, just - Tufnell Park, anyway.

Posted by: Interested at June 19, 2005 6:17 PM

Zico - that 'Asian community' stuff really stinks! You don't hear a word about Hindus and Sikhs.

For Americans not in the know, in the UK, Asian tends to mean from the Indian sub-continent. I believe in the US it means what we used to call orientals, ie from the far East.

Posted by: Interested at June 19, 2005 6:21 PM

Zico - that 'Asian community' stuff really stinks! You don't hear a word about Hindus and Sikhs.

For Americans not in the know, in the UK, Asian tends to mean from the Indian sub-continent. I believe in the US it means what we used to call orientals, ie from the far East.

Posted by: Interested at June 19, 2005 6:22 PM

Sorry for the triple post - can't imagine what happened there.

Posted by: Interested at June 19, 2005 6:23 PM

Totally agree, zico.

BTW, how many britons, do you reckon, can't differentiate between Asian and muslim? IF push comes to shove, will the man on the street know the difference, or be willing to know?

Posted by: voletti at June 19, 2005 6:25 PM

Interested

Tufnell Park eh? Just a short ride on the number 4 bus to Abu Hamza's Finsbury Park Mosque. I am sure they will soon be sending some morality police to comb the Tufnel Park Tavern and Dartmouth Park Arms for your disgusting sluttish behaviour. You will be dressed in a burqa and drowned in Parliament Hill Lido wighed down with rocks or buried in the grounds of Gospel Oak up to your neck and stoned. The choice is yours. Choose carefully.

Posted by: Zico at June 19, 2005 6:26 PM

Theakstons Old Peculier is very fine ale. Enough said.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 19, 2005 6:28 PM

If alcohol is something Muslims have never had, how can it be tempting to them?

I've never eaten braised sheep's eyeballs, and have passed by Muslims on the street eating them, and, to tell you the truth, I've never been tempted.

What's their logic, here?

How can you be tempted by something you see only as colored liquid? (How do they know it isn't just iced tea [scotch on the rocks] or soda [gin fizz] or orange juice [screwdriver] or tomato juice [bloody mary]?)

Isn't this presumptuous on their part?

Or they tempted by all colored liquids?

Raising a goblet of chilled Liebfraumilch to say a hearty:
"In vino veritas!" to these Koranic clowns.

Prost!

Posted by: BigSleep at June 19, 2005 6:31 PM

Voletti

Most people cant tell the difference between a Hindu or Muslim person of Asian descent. But that doesnt mean that we should not point out that they are different. In fact, it is vitally important that we do point that out, because the relative success of Indian immigrants and their British born children is a slap in the face of those liars who claim that British society is to blame for the failure and backwardness of Pakistani and Bangladeshis in the country.

And those ideologues and wicked fibbers and 'Islamphobia' Boys-Crying-Wolf and all of their coterie need to be told the truth and have metaphorical slaps in their faces as much as possible!

Posted by: Zico at June 19, 2005 6:33 PM

The Number 4 bus? Know it well - it takes me to my sister's in Highbury, past the very Finsbury Park Mosque, through the area known locally as 'Little Algiers'. My number's up. But it's good to have a choice in my death. For Allah is all merciful.

Hey, it's good the Brits are taking over this thread!!

Granny W - Old Peculier is a fine ale, but my very name may offend those of a certain religion. Even my name here, Interested, suggests something a little bit uppity. Curiosity is not a quality admired in a Muslimah.

Posted by: Interested at June 19, 2005 6:35 PM

Now this is why I hate muslims so much.

Yes, terrorism and flying planes into buildings is bad, but when they try to change OUR CULTURE, then I'm really ready to fight.

F*ck them, and f*ck the people who brought them into western countries, thinking that they would blend in and intergrate.

I hate them all.

I don't drink much because I don't like the taste of alcohol, but I intend to find a drink that I like, so I can drink it outside a mosque.

Posted by: Voltaire at June 19, 2005 6:35 PM

Interested: "they think all religions are nonsense and can't distinguish nonsense from dangerous nonsense."

Well said Sir! And I'll drink to that! Clink! (the sound of glasses meeting)....

Posted by: Caroline at June 19, 2005 6:41 PM

Interested, I also thought my name might cause offence, but so far it hasn't. I think that we are a bit oblique in our subtlety here.

Before we met my husband lived in Gospel Oak for a time and used to walk his dog up by the lido. He is a Yorkshireman and he liked the open space and the views.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 19, 2005 6:43 PM

Interested

There is a story that Bin Laden actually visited Highbury in his youth and was a Gunner's fan. Dont know if that is an urban legend due to the proximity of that notorious extremist mosque.

Wouldnt it be funny if the cause of his angst was because he was hood winked into supporting Spurs, who are known for their Jewish support, and their hilarious lack of success lead to his blood curdling horrific tirades against the Zionists?

Put Alan Sugar and White Heart Lane on red alert if they dont qualify for Europe next season!

Posted by: Zico at June 19, 2005 6:43 PM

"'Fair maid of Islington' - hmm! Well I'm very much a brunette, both in appearance and character..."
-- from a posting above

Okay, Dark Lady it is. But two points in defense of "fair maid."

First, the fixed phrase "fair maid" refrs not to hair color but to general attractiveness -- as in a law school class one stares at Miss Unforgettable and idly writes "Fair of Form and Fair of Face/But What's the Rule in Shelley's Case?"

Second, here at my imaginary pub, The Saracen's Head (remember the celebrated contest, held right here at Jihadwatch some months ago), sitting alone with my lager,not loutishly, je meurs de soif aupres de ma blonde.

Trying on the fly to come with something that would echo A Chaste Maid of Cheapside, and already in trouble because of trisyllabic Islington, one needed a one-syllable adjective in front of "maid." Scansion is not everything, but it's a lot.

Posted by: Hugh at June 19, 2005 6:44 PM

Javeed Gill, secretary of the UK Islamic Mission, said: "This area is the second largest area for Muslims in the city and we look after 1500 young people and provide activities for them."

I'm sure this reasoning is compelling to a large percentage of westerners who don't understand what's really going on.

"They look out for their young people and provide them activities. How nice."

So much for integration or tolerance of western traditions however. Tolerance means submission and the gradual imposition of sharia law and Islamic theology. This dovetails nicely with the undead blasphemy law which cannot be killed through ordinary political means.

Labour should do some soul-searching, see if they find one. UK Conservatives need to find a brain.

Posted by: Beagle at June 19, 2005 6:44 PM

Zico
That was mentioned on another thread earlier this week. There is a joke doing the rounds that he has been found hiding in Man U's trophy room. It reminded him of the Bora Bora caves....cold, dark and empty.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 19, 2005 6:47 PM

There is a joke doing the rounds that he has been found hiding in Man U's trophy room. It reminded him of the Bora Bora caves....cold, dark and empty.

Thats hilarious!

Gospel Oak really is lovely. Incidentally, the pub that Interested was talking about earlier, The Spaniards Inn in Hampstead is lovely....hundreds of years old, oak beams on the roof, dates back to Elizabethan times I believe, and Dick Turpin used to hang out there with buxom ladies no doubt, after a good days Highway robbery.

Hugh would love that pub.

Posted by: Zico at June 19, 2005 6:50 PM

Zico--

I lived in Islington for a few months -- it was some time ago. Even saw Robert Morley coming out of a famous restaurant in Camden Passage, patting his embonpoint.

Posted by: Hugh at June 19, 2005 7:00 PM

'Scansion is not everything, but it's a lot.'

Scansion is haram. And Allah knows best.

Zico - you know the Spaniards? It's fabulous. And seriously haunted. You can get a dog wash there. (Don't ask!)

Granny W - watch what you say about Man U. I'm from Bolton and feel that I ought to support them. Vaguely.

Posted by: Interested at June 19, 2005 7:01 PM

Here it is. Hopefully the brothers wont be using this link for Sharia observance surveillance.

http://www.professorharbottle.co.uk/pub/londonnorth/spaniards.html

http://www.visitbritain.com/VB3-en-IN/experiences/Taste/drink/historicpubs/london/thespaniardsinn.aspx

The pub also has an impressive literary heritage with mentions in both Dicken’s The Pickwick Papers and Bram Stoker's Dracula and it can count the poets Shelley, Byron and Keats and the painter Sir Joshua Reynolds amongst its past regulars. (Keats allegedly wrote his Ode to a Nightingale in the garden.)

Posted by: Zico at June 19, 2005 7:04 PM

Another fact about Gospel Oak. On one of the back street's sits Karl Marx's old abode. the whole area was gutted in the 1960's and replaced with a hideous council estate. That whole area has history on every street corner, even in the most unlikely places.

Posted by: Zico at June 19, 2005 7:06 PM

Zico - if you're passing the beautiful garden at the Spaniards (the best pub garden in London, if not the world) and you spot a woman in a burkha surrounded by Mohammedans hurling rocks - that's me.

Posted by: Interested at June 19, 2005 7:12 PM

Glasgow Pakistan? Saudi Arabia? Yemen? NO, Scotland! If these cave people can't handle the local flavor they should return to their lovely desert homes. GO HOME MUSLIMS!

Posted by: Carolyn2 at June 19, 2005 7:14 PM

Interested

I'm cracking up with laughter at the thought of it!

It could be a new kind of pub game like skittles and instead of darts.

Posted by: Zico at June 19, 2005 7:14 PM

Yeah, I like nothing better of an evening than to go out and get stoned...

Posted by: Interested at June 19, 2005 7:17 PM

Another thing I'm scared of is: what if gangs of muslims start wrecking the outdoor eatery?

Muslims aren't above doing something like that.

Posted by: Voltaire at June 19, 2005 7:56 PM

Interested says - 'There seems to be no idea of self-discipline in Islam. If Muslims don't feel they should drink alcohol, fine'.

Exactly! This is the thing that kind of bothers me, because the local jihadis may use outdoor drinking as an excuse for an attack.

This is one of the excuses used to justify the Bali bombing - that we depraved westerners would tempt 'good Muslims' to go into bars and drink.
Its amazing really, as if they have no will of their own and can be tempted so easily that the source of temptation must be destroyed.

Hypocrites that Muslims are - several friends who worked in the Middle East described the ripping off of robes and the ordering of booze as soon as the plane was out of Saudi airspace. And my local shopkeeper, who is Syrian, told me that he made his money for himself and his family to escape Syria by smuggling booze into Saudi Arabia when he was in the army. He says he did a roaring trade and he laughed his head off while telling this story.

Posted by: DianaC at June 19, 2005 8:33 PM

DianaC - for all my general jocularity on this thread, that is a serious point that I'd like to make.

A friend of mine works out in Dubai. He likes a drink himself, and a good time. But he says he's disgusted by the Saudis (men, obviously) who come to Dubai to get drunk and screw around. They are such hypocrites - no notion of self control at all.

Another friend has worked as a nurse in Saudi - great money out there. The Aids problem is huge - the men go to Thailand and f*** like rabbits (Kafir women don't count) and come back and infect their wives, who they would stone to death for showing a bit of ankle.

Islam is literally immoral, in that people are denied the chance of exercising morality. There are just rules, and that's that.

As a woman I find Islam utterly repellent, but even more repellent is the tendency amongst the so-called progressive left - feminists even - to excuse the barbaric treatment of women on grounds of multiculturalism. Sick, sick, thrice sick.

Posted by: Interested at June 19, 2005 8:44 PM

I believe it's not so much about the alcohol being offensive, and more about "this area is the second largest area for Muslims in the city". It's about them calling the shots, as they are raised to believe they have this right. Once they get the numbers, it's all about Muslim rights, for Islam has to be on top, has to set the rules. It says so in their war manual. They don't know any other way.

Personally, I hope they push this issue when council approves the restaurant's permit to serve alcohol outside. Hopefully it'll open some eyes as to what Islam is really about. Not about integration. Not about tolerance. Not about respecting others. But, perhaps I dream. These days, you'd be hard pressed to find a council that would stand up to pressure from these oversensitive "Asians". I fear that if the issue was pushed, that council would back down and rescind the permit. People would be angered, and seethe, but that's all they would be able to do. Afterall, multiculturalism (or in Islam's case, monoculturalism) trumps everything. But, perhaps I'm being pessimistic.

Posted by: feralee at June 19, 2005 9:27 PM

Granny Weatherwax-

Sorry I never did a search on your name.

(A lady with an "...ambitious nature, sharp tongue... unshakable conviction... and ...considerable mental powers...").

Don't know the tale of 'Discworld' at all. (Any relation to Niven's Ringworld?)

And I thought your nom de screen was something genteel and Brit quaint, like Miss Marple or Auntie Mame.

I raise a toast to ingenuity.

Posted by: BigSleep at June 19, 2005 9:30 PM

How sad that a mighty powerful God like Allah can't help these poor mortals with temptation and
sin,reason # 422 why I don't convert to Islam and most of the rest of my reasons are that Muslims seem to have NO self-control or free will.

They want to ban everything that helps them avoid the reality of personal responsibility
and intelligent choices,this explains how Muslims
have live in a false reality of tolerance and pluralism by surrounding themselves with other Muslims(Such as in the middle east) or as they do in the west,self-segragate into micro communities
and convince themself that they are the ones superior with all the moral standards of a Godly life.
Paranoia and denial are embedded within the Quran and the lack of free will forces Muslims to blindly follow the Imam's sermons that re-enforce this false reality,CAIR is the perfect example since their perspective on the West is that everyone else is the problem because they're Islamophobes and Racists that are in denial for their hate towards Islam.

I no longer believe CAIR speaks for the masses
and really opposes Terrorism and Jihad,CAIR's new tactic is to use the circular logic and the "Victim" mind set to explain away the violence by Muslims,CAIR feels that Muslims are incited to be violent and the cycle won't stop until the bigots and Islamophobes cease the attacks on Islam.
This is the defense used by Abusers,abusers have to be violent and hurt people because they are only protecting themself from future harm and the denial from the person they feel will harm them one day in the future.
Hamas uses this to justify slaughtering noon-Muslims for Allah and Muslims condone the killings to support the Hamas view point for killing civilians.

Truely a pathetic quasi religion create by a misogynistic pedophile with voices in his head.

NO ISLAM - KNOW PEACE

Posted by: ala-sux at June 19, 2005 9:32 PM

On warm summer afternoons, the pub should bbq pork ribs out on the terrace. Or maybe roast a boar on a spit. Or, like one American restaurant, provide bright yellow rain slickers for their 'All you can eat--baby back ribs' special.

Good food. Good drinks. Good fun.

Make sure to place a menu out front.

Posted by: PRCS at June 19, 2005 9:45 PM

Once again a smaller immigrant population is attempting to impose values on the much larger indigenous population. They have chosen to immigrate to Britain. If they are unhappy with conditions there, or any location in the West, they are free to remove themselves to a country that hold similar values.

Muslims certainly must have known what life was like in Britain before going there. One must question why they have come and why they remain in among a population to which they cannot conform.

Posted by: epg at June 19, 2005 10:30 PM

Voltaire Akbar,

I agree with you 100%. When I see any Muslim, I have to supress my dark side. I never knew hatred until I knew Islam. Start the deportations; punch in the coordinates; nuke Meccah. My political will is there; let's do the deed; I just don't care.

Third

Posted by: ThirdWorldHeaven at June 19, 2005 11:16 PM

epg, I agree. If they don't like it, they should leave. Makes sense. But they are not in our countries to like it, or get along, or have a good life. They are in our countries to impose Islam. To create a worldwide caliphate. I used to doubt that. Now I don't. There is just too much evidence worldwide to doubt it anymore. Everywhere they go, they demand to change it to suit them. No other groups do. Islam is monocultural. It cannot be any other way. And since the West is so PC-addled, we are incapable of saying "No!".

Posted by: feralee at June 19, 2005 11:51 PM

Interested and Zico,

During the Gordon Riots of June 1780, the mob burned Lord Mansfield's house in Bloomsbury Sq and set off to attack his mansion, Kenwood House.

This was only prevented by the quick thinking of the landlord of the Spaniards' Inn who persuaded the rioters to stop for a drink. Whilst they were enjoying a glass outside in the summer sunshine, the landlord secretly and swiftly sent for a detachment of the Horse Guards.

According to Dickens, the Spaniards was also where Mrs Bardell and her friends plotted the downfall of Mr Pickwick.
------------------------

As for Bin Laden, I've heard to that he loved to go and watch Arsenal play. It must have been great for him that their ground is only about five minutes walk to the Finsbury Park Mosque.

There was a gunners' fanzine with a photo of the players with the caption 'Osama Bin Laden is in Kabul, he supports the ar-sen-al'.

Posted by: Elephant at June 20, 2005 12:22 AM

'Some of them [the Gordon rioters] made for the Mansfields' country house at Kenwood, Highgate, but were diverted by the landlord of the Spaniards' Inn who invited them in for free drinks. It was a hot day and they had come a long way. The copious supplies of beer, supplemented by barrels hurriedly sent over by the steward of Ken House, changed their mood and by the time that they had slept it off they were prepared to drift away'

pages 241-242 of 'The City of London' by Mary Cathcart Borer'

Posted by: Elephant at June 20, 2005 12:30 AM

One of the most revealing statements about islam is how they are forbidden from wine women and song in this lifetime, but are promised drunken orgies with hot virgins in the afterlife.

"Interested", you said it beautifully: they have rules yet no morality. Basically, you need to be a MORON to buy into this religion, as the only reasoning for restrictions on earth is that total hedonism and narcissism awaits you in heaven.

Idiots. I am totally amazed that moslems don't see right through this ridiculous canard and just tell the sheiks to f*ck off.

Yet, it does make sense that the progressives have aligned themselves so tightly with the moslems: they are hedonistic narcissists on earth, and, therefore, only feel it is logical to bond with an ideology that promises copious deviance in the afterlife.

Two peas in a filthy pod.

Posted by: Madzionist at June 20, 2005 12:44 AM

If the Moslems don't like a drop of Walker, I suggest "Sugh mo bhod" as an alternative.

Good news for our Leftist comrades here. I'm persona non grata in Glasgow now for chanting at the last anti-war rally:

Manchester, United!
Will never be
Defeated!

Posted by: sonofwalker at June 20, 2005 2:14 AM

This whole ridiculous episode reminds me of Rick's famous line in CASABLANCA: "Well, Major, there are some parts of New York City I would not advise you to invade." There are many parts of Glasgow where it can be more than a Muslim's life is worth to separate a man from his drink. I would be interested to see them try.

Posted by: Paolo at June 20, 2005 3:01 AM

Granny Weathermax, I like that trophy room joke, very funny...

Interested, great comment about the stoning... made me chuckle a bit.

I think once again the Muslims show that they are incapable of living in a multicultural society.

There was a lovely incident in my brother-in-laws resturant the other day when one guy who had drunk too much beer loudly declared that he could not eat Pork as he was a Muslim, ooops ;-). He was very loud and offensive in the resturant, evantually he went into the toilet and drunkenly pee'd all over the floor, so my sister-in-law got fed up with him and kicked him out, he went to the bar next door where he loudly declared that my sister-in-law was a racist which is kinda funny as she is a second generation French-Algerian immigrant, isn't life wonderful?

Posted by: Daffersd at June 20, 2005 3:34 AM

Mohammed (PUBHim).

Posted by: Shy Guy at June 20, 2005 4:05 AM

Paolo
There are many parts of Glasgow where it can be more than a Muslim's life is worth to separate a man from his drink. I would be interested to see them try.

I quite agree.

Big Sleep
Thank you, I did fear I was being arrogant taking the name of such a capable character, but...
Discworld bears little relation to Ringworld. Louis Wu, Prill, Teela Brown and his other cohorts who travel to the Ringworld inhabit serious science fiction, to my recollection. Although the Pearsons puppeteer would be at home in the Discworld.
Pratchett's Discworld is really Earth, only flat, supported by 4 elephants which ride on the back of the Great Turtle. The lands, cities, people are all Earth types (but not all human, I particularly like the Trolls, DEATH, and the Tooth Fairy), and every book is a deliberately comical reference to some Earth institution. One of my favourites is Maskerade, a Phantom of the Opera spoof - "Granny Weatherwax is in the audience for a good evening's entertainment with murders you can really hum" Except in amongst the comedy he deals with some serious issues. There was a poster here last week called Carpe Jugulum, another book, and I hope she (he?) posts again.

Interested, so whats wrong with Bolton Wanderers? An illustrious history, and they won the FA cup in 1959. Just as I do not support the obvious East London team, or sadly my Dads Arsenal.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 20, 2005 4:11 AM

This represents the tragic nature of the West.

Muslims fight and die because of their belief in their religion and Westerners are angered because they can't drink alcohol.

Decadence.

In England, they have had to call out the army to deal with drunken louts. THE ARMY. How bad is it getting? We now have a generation of drugged up, drunken, undisciplined children, interested in nothing more than their own self gratification.

Forget society, forget education, forget their responsbilities. Europeans are not even having children anymore. "Our civilisation is dying, but hey, pass the wine along"

Secularism has removed nearly every last vestige of cultural, religous and moral fibre from Europeans - thus leaving them ripe for Islamic conversion.

Europe is lost.

Posted by: cozrusader at June 20, 2005 5:36 AM

We now have a generation of drugged up, drunken, undisciplined children, interested in nothing more than their own self gratification.

Cozrusader, speak for your own child please, but not mine. Or those others that I know.

I assume when you write of the military police dealing with drunkenness on the streets that you mean this recent story in The Telegraph. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/06/19/nbooze19.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/06/19/ixportaltop.html

If you read it you will see that the Redcaps are to be used in towns near a military garrison. So that young servicemen and women, many of whom will have experienced grulleing and traumatic tours of duty in Iraq and elsewhere are policed by their own when letting off steam.

And I think if you continue to read more closely here at JW/DW you will see, that under the black humour there is plenty of "cultural, religious and moral fibre" Predicting doom is not helpful.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 20, 2005 6:06 AM

Its all about freedom of choice, I happen to enjoy a fine bottle of wine now and then and a refreshing beer following any hot work. I think that having the choice to drink a bottle of wine with my meal is important, you see I enjoy life, not death.

Posted by: Daffersd at June 20, 2005 6:38 AM

Elephant

Thanks for the information on The Spaniards Inn!

We now have a generation of drugged up, drunken, undisciplined children, interested in nothing more than their own self gratification.

Amazing how the doom mongers echo the demented rhetoric of the Islamists.

Caricature and pure misunderstanding of what the West is.

Posted by: Zico at June 20, 2005 7:02 AM

Like many people who always drive, I've learned to live on iced tea and savor my lack of run-ins with the police. But if my freedom depends on my drinking a glass of wine strategically positioned to tempt and seduce Muslim youth into the debauched ways of the West, you can count on me every night. One glass at least.

Posted by: Beagle at June 20, 2005 7:53 AM

"Asian Community"
my arse, The nerve of the bastards.
The Indian pub in Southall is called "Glassy Junction" and it is opposite a Sikh temple !

That is tolerance

This "asian" business is really pissing me off.

I think the owner of this restaurant should invite a few big Sikhs over to drink on his terrace, Then "they" can complain about it being "offensive to Glasgow's Asian community".

If you have a local Offy owned by an Indian businessman ask him to stock israeli wine !
I have asked so many wine importers if they can get hold of it and after a while they start stocking it anyway.

Has it ever occured to "them" and their lefty bum kissers that "we" the drinkers might be offended by their religion ?

WANKERS, WANKERS, WANKERS.......WANKERS

My uncle who fought in the Sikh pioneer in WW2 would be offended if he was still alive, he died at the age of 80 and he drank a bottle of whiskey a night !
Honest the bloke was a nutter.

Any way I am off to the "Arab Boy" the oldest pub in Putney to show my respect for allah.

END OF RANT

PS. WANKERS ALL OF THEM

Posted by: apostate_islam at June 20, 2005 7:56 AM

Any way I am off to the "Arab Boy" the oldest pub in Putney to show my respect for allah.

You lucky,lucky person! Enjoy!

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 20, 2005 8:02 AM

'WANKERS, WANKERS, WANKERS.......WANKERS....

....

PS. WANKERS ALL OF THEM'

Apostate_islam - don't pussyfoot, tell us what you really feel:-)

Posted by: Interested at June 20, 2005 8:22 AM

apostle_islam, yes I am offended by anyone who can't appreciate a fine bottle of red wine, the height of enjoyment is to eat a damn fine meal with a devcent bottle of the red stuff.

Enjoy your trip to the pub, and yes they are!! :-)

Posted by: Daffersd at June 20, 2005 8:23 AM

To reason with the muslims about anything they complain about is to miss the point.

These people don't do reason.
They don't do common sense.
They don't do decency.

What they do is what Islam tells them to do: that is to turn your society into theirs. To convert your decent civil country into another indecent tight-assed Islamic one.

They are not in your country to follow your civil code. They already have a code of their own, the Sharia code, which they want to impose on your country.

They will do it by making one demand at a time, for now, while their number is small, which won't stay small for long since they are reproducing at 3x the birthrate of native Europeans.

Posted by: skidd at June 20, 2005 8:57 AM

The Indian pub in Southall is called "Glassy Junction" and it is opposite a Sikh temple !

Frequented mostly by Sikhs, I believe!

If you have a local Offy owned by an Indian businessman ask him to stock israeli wine !
I have asked so many wine importers if they can get hold of it and after a while they start stocking it anyway.

I believe that when a group of Islamic hooligans marked Eid celebrations in Southall by jeering and waving the Islamic Pakistani flag in the faces of Indians in Southall a number of them brilliantly made their colours plain by unfurling the beautiful colours of the flag of Israel back at them. Now that is classy.

Posted by: Zico at June 20, 2005 9:09 AM

And yes, calling the muslims "Asians" is doing a great injustice to the non-muslim Asian community - the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Indians, Sikhs, and many others - who are assets to the nations that take them in.

Muslims are just muslims. Not Asians.

They are the only one of their kind. They should not be grouped with other peoples. They are the only people who has an agenda to force the planet to become like them. Islamic.

What they really need is another planet - an uninhabited desert planet so they won't harm other beings - that they can pursue their "Islam to be dominant over all on the planet" agenda on. But they should definitely not be allowed to pursue their agenda on this planet. Not Earth. Not our home planet.

These people don't belong here.

Posted by: skidd at June 20, 2005 9:23 AM

'And yes, calling the muslims "Asians" is doing a great injustice to the non-muslim Asian community - the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans...'

Skidd, just to clarify, in the UK, the term 'Asian' is used to mean people from the Indian sub-continent, ie Indians and Pakistanis. We don't use it to mean people from the Far East like the Chinese, Japanese etc. Such people used to be called 'orientals', but this term is slightly un PC these days. However, we would talk about South East Asia to describe where they came from.

But the point is certainly true; it is unfair to lump Hindus and Sikhs in with Muslims.

Posted by: Interested at June 20, 2005 9:41 AM

TIME FOR A GROUP HUG

This is a delightful story, (well the tenth paragraph is anyway)

http://www.atimes.com/ind-pak/BC25Df01.html

Its the kind of story if true that would lead the likes of DC Watson to hug and kiss every moslem he meets
An example of tolerance towards moslems that we should all show !

Remember folks LOVE conquers all ! (Honest)

Posted by: apostate_islam at June 20, 2005 9:50 AM

Apostate_islam, how much did you have at lunchtime?

That's a terrible story. Where would the Sikh community go if things get too bad? Elsewhere in India? Or further abroad to the communities in UK and Canada?

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 20, 2005 11:06 AM

Without whimsy, may they be drowned in a butt of malmsy.

Posted by: iconoclast at June 20, 2005 11:18 AM

Couple the drinking of alcohol in public with the sexual rays emanating from uncovered women drinking alcohol outside at such establishments and you have a formula, pre-approved by muslims, for murder and mayhem.

Keep the alcohol and ban the muslims. Now is that so hard a concept to understand?

Posted by: Rick at June 20, 2005 11:37 AM

Granny, wherever the Sikhs go will be good news for the place in question. They are hard-working, generally honest, and famously good and disciplined soldiers (if soldiers are needed). What is more, in spite of their martial heritage, they are open to other religions. As far as alien religions go, Sikhism is better than most, IMHO.

Posted by: Paolo at June 20, 2005 12:25 PM

Zico:

Love the account of how the Indian community got their own back at the Eid "celebrants", and most appropos. It must have left them appoplectic!

I don't know much about relations between India and Israel, but India has been home and safe haven to a few small (and one very ancient) Jewish communities.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at June 20, 2005 12:53 PM

Where would the Sikh community go !

No Where, they would stay put. They may (unarmed Civilians) be driven out temporarily,
however the return would be with a vengence.

I don't mean to patronise anybody on this board who is not of Indian decent, but we know the sons of bitches and
their primeaval hateful religion for what it is, we found out around about the 9th century.
Our attitude towards them is totally different, not a conflict that has "come over from the colonies", just realistic.
(which that dickhead tony blair should realise, because he and labour will pay for their stupidity)

Many years ago (1997) I used to have a work colleague who was an evangilical christian, he asked me what the 21st century
would bring for the human race.
My reply was words to the effect "there will be a massive terrorist attack on the west, probably the USA,
thousands will die and WW4 will be on, it will be a war between humanity and islam.

Do you know what he said ?????

"Your only saying that because Indian people don't like moslems !!"

Well its on folks and our job is to fight the "information warfare" bit.

Also I was the only one who sided with those "wicked Serbs".

I TOLD YOU SO !

The kashmir problem is not going to be resolved in a manner that would satisfy the islamist's. They want all of India.

India is unfinished business as far as islam is concerned.
India and China are the fastest growing economies, with large populations if or rather when things get really ugly and
the fight gets nasty, does anybody really think any mercy will be shown ?

Moslems are bullies, they back down and cry when confronted.

Contrary to what some posters have said on this web site, non kashmiri's are allowed to settle in Kashmir, provided they
are ex military.
If things got nasty, what precisly would pakistan do if hundreds of thousand of Hindus/sikhs were to flood into kashmir ?
I do believe this could happen, the result will be a moslem exodus, a non moslem influx and the usual pleading by the
islamic world for a kosovo style intervention.

All sorts of moslems have been killed in kashmir sudanese, chechen,uigar,bosnians,african algerian,saudi. Infact i will
do some research and post some links.

Do you remember the 1999 border war between the paks and India ?
There was talk of possible Chinese intervention on the side of the paks (wishful thinking)
It never happened, the reason ?
Because Indian officials returned the bodies of 3-4 moslems killed in Kashmir to the Chinese, they were uighar !

It sounds cheesy and i am sure we have all heard it before, but the world din change on 9/11

A new alliance is taking shape, the USA,India,Israel, Russia, China these are the nations and people that will destroy islam.

if you do a search on India on www.frontpagemag.org all sorts of intersting things appear !

An alliance has formed. let the french fairies and the other EC dhimmies pander to the arabs/islam. When the islamic lobby pressurises the EC with regards
to Kashmir or the uighars what will happen ?
They will buy American aircraft/nuclear power stations etc.

Iran will be free,secular and anti arab soon.
The end is nigh for those who raise their arseholes to a higher level than their brains when they Prey (sorry pray).

If mussharraff is overthrown the USA, Israel,India, Russia, China and the UK will intervene the alernative is too horrific.
I have read somewhere that joint SF excercises have been carried out, but no details.

Israel is the second largest supplier of military tech to India, israeli scientists have helped turn parts of the Indian desrts green.

If Israel ever goes down, humanity will die. So start buying kosher I do .

Posted by: apostate_islam at June 20, 2005 1:20 PM

waterdragon,

Israel and India have extensive links.

for military info go to www.bharat-rakshak.com

2 two of india's most senior and respected military leaders were Jewish.
General Jacobs and Vice-Admiral Samuel.

or search www.rediff.com

Indian and Israeli SF train together.
Joint air excercises are being planned, naval excercises have taken place.

Israel has tested a sub launched cruise missile in the Indian Ocean, with Indian cooperation.
Israel Military Industries has supplied to India, they have joint tech research.
In the 1999 border war it was IMI that sourced 155mm shells for India when they ran short.
Israel is supplying Phalcon AWACS on IL-76 airframes.

Israel supplies the follwing:
AA, SAM, Air to ground missiles.
UAV's
Green Pine radar.

Possibly the ARROW system.
Small arms various.
helmets, webbing
Electronic listening devices for the Indo-pak border.
HUD
Various electronic counter measures

The list goes on.

There is extensive Israel India civilian cooperation (Thats how humanity progresses, but islam doesn't realise that)
Israeli agro-scientists have done in Rajasthan what they did in the Negev.

There is software, cultural infact just normal HUMAN cooperation.

There is an interesting book, you maybe able to obtain it from amazon "The Jews of India"

India under congress used to ass kiss the arabs/islamic world, because the socialists told every one the wicked israelis were
so cruel to those poor helpless invented people the "palestinians"
What did India get in return.
Gobb in the face thats what.
The saudi's once rejected an Indian ambassador because he was not moslem.
Ironically when the palestinians were chucked out of jordan during Black September it was pak troops who did it, under the command
of a brigadier Zia Ul Haq remember him ?

Posted by: apostate_islam at June 20, 2005 1:56 PM

Apostate:

Thanks for the info re: India and Israel. I had quite forgotten about General Jacobs despite having read about him recently.

And yes, I do recall Zia, the S.O.B. A jihaddist through and through, but a "military" man who would have no problem dispensing with anyone who questions power structures he wishes to uphold, not even Palestinians.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at June 20, 2005 2:42 PM

I used to work in Saudi Arabia in the 70's and early 80's. When we took off on BA to London, it was the Arabs (Moslems) who demanded that the bar was opened, almost before the wheels were up!

They almost all refused to travel Saudia (the Saudi airline) because they would get their booze.

Posted by: kennyg1953 at June 20, 2005 4:16 PM

Rick-

"Keep the alcohol, ban the Muslims."

I'll drink to that!

Funny thing is that alcohol (al-kohl) is an Arabic word.

(Meaning 'refined'*... no wonder they hate it.)
__________________________________________________

*as in finely-ground and sifted powdered antimony, originally used as eyeshadow by Muslim hussies. Haram in the harem!

Posted by: BigSleep at June 20, 2005 10:37 PM

I find looking at Muslims outside on the streets to be culturally offensive. Do you think I could put a good case to my local council to have them removed?

Posted by: Timbo at June 24, 2005 1:37 AM