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From the New Duranty Times, with thanks to all who sent this in.
The young Muslim men, with beards and bullhorns, work the streets of Jackson Heights on the weekends. They surface at parades and protests around the city, loudly declaring America the enemy and advocating for an Islamic state. Several weeks ago, they publicly tore up an American flag as payback for the reported desecration of the Koran at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba. Their own videos of violence against Muslims, one with the title "Muslim Massacres," have recently appeared on Queens Public Television.In the annals of New York City's political outspokenness and fringe-group culture, the Islamic Thinkers Society may seem unremarkable at first glance. But after 9/11, in the city most damaged and unsettled by the terrorist attacks, the emergence of this young, however limited, Muslim-American voice is strikingly bold. In its fliers and on its Web site, the group describes itself as an "intellectual and political nonviolent organization," but it bears a strong resemblance to Islamist movements in England that try to unite Muslims by inciting anger...
The group's spokesman, Ariful Islam, said he was a 21-year-old student at La Guardia Community College who came to Queens from Bangladesh when he was 8. He said the group's purpose was promoting unity among Muslims and that the F.B.I. had been monitoring it for two years. The F.B.I. would not comment.
"What they're worried about is, are we recruiting for jihad," Mr. Islam said. "Through our past couple of years we have never recruited anyone to go to a foreign land. We have always made that clear through our activities. We have always stressed nonviolent means. However, that does not mean that we don't address American foreign policy, and we strongly disagree with their policies."
After years of quietly ignoring the group, the city's Muslim leaders began to speak out against it this week after reports of the flag desecration. Imams, activists and other leaders worry that the group is misrepresenting Islam, sending a negative message to Muslim youths and damaging a hard-earned, fragile trust between the Muslim community and those in law enforcement...
Posted by Rebecca at June 22, 2005 11:41 AM
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He said the group's purpose was promoting unity among Muslims and that the F.B.I. had been monitoring it for two years. The F.B.I. would not comment.
Right, unity amongst the Muslims and oppression on the non-Muslim dhimi.
This is not free speech but sedition and frankly they should be investigated for treason. If this Ariful Islam does not love our nation then he should go back to the cess pool he came from. There he can have all the Muslim unity he wants along with the lack of freedoms.
Why does the government allow these people to get away with this in a time of war- why?????
Posted by: eaglecap![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at June 22, 2005 12:02 PM
Islamic Thinkers?
When ever will they begin?
Were they under police protection again as they bellowed through their horns?
If they've declared America the enemy, then why don't they make a move? Here we are, ladies.
Any sawed off hunchback can run their mouth over loud speakers and proclaim their resolve.
Personally, my opinion of this horde is that they're nothing more than cowardly punks with battleship mouths and slinkys for spines.
They appear to have no direction, so here's a direction for them: East
Posted by: DCWatson
at June 22, 2005 12:02 PM
If these clowns have this much time on their hands, shouldn't they use it to better the neighborhood? Help people in need?, hold trash collection patries to clean up the litter in their neighborhood?
If they hate America then by all means, give them directions to the nearest airport.
They should stop dreaming of Shari'ah and focus on matters at hand. Otherwise, the direction for them remains East.
Posted by: DCWatson at June 22, 2005 12:22 PM
From the article,
"Imams, activists and other leaders worry that the group is misrepresenting Islam..."
With all of this "misrepresentation" going on where does one go to get to the truth about Islam? The Qur'an is taken as the literal word of Allah and one cannot claim to be Muslim without believing that. Muhammad is hailed (by Muslims) to be a model for mankind and, according to Muslims, the prophet's actions and words are worthy of imitation.
That being said, the unbiased reader of the Qur'an, Sunnah and biography of Muhammad (preferably ibn Khaldun's) should come away with a proper representation of Islam, shouldn't he? An examination of Islam's historical influence should provide a good indication of what Islam really is about, shouldn't it?
Shall we believe what the imams and other activists want us to believe or is it more prudent to make a decision based upon a reading of Islam's holy books accompanied by a thorough inquiry into the historicity of Islamic action?
at June 22, 2005 12:49 PM
Mrs. Clinton (D-NY) hasn’t uttered a word. Why is she so silent? Read this!
THE CLINTON AND ISLAM PARTNERSHIP: EVIDENCE OF NEGOTIATIONS USING AMERICA'S PUBLIC SCHOOL CHILDREN
Abdurahman Alamoudi, President of the American Muslim Council, supporter of Hamas, Hezbollah and accused of ties with Osama bin Laden, helped develop "Religious Expression in Public School" which was launched by Clinton in 1995. These "Presidential Guidelines" greatly impact public schools today. Nadine Strossen, President of the ACLU, refers to these guidelines as the authority to support the ACLU's lawsuits restricting Christmas celebrations and removing Nativity scenes from public schools. Meanwhile all practices of Islam are encouraged.
School districts are pressured to utilize these dubious guidelines, which Clinton sold to America as "issued by 35 religious groups," including the American Muslim Council/Alamoudi/suspected terrorist.
In United States v. Abdurahman Muhammad Alamoudi reads:
"I have reviewed a transcript of a translation of a recorded statement made in Arabic by Alamoudi:
'...bombing the American embassy in Kenya in which many African Muslims have died and not a single American died. You killed 500 Africans and injured 5,000 and then you said we exploded an American embassy! [emphasis added] This is not good and this gives a bad image of the Muslims and Arabs, and even inside America itself. What is the result you achieve in destroying an embassy in an African country?
I prefer to hit a Zionist target in America or Europe or elsewhere but not like what happened at the Embassy in Kenya. I prefer, honestly, like what happened in Argentine?
[Other man interrupts:] the Israeli Embassy?
[Back to Alamoudi:] No. The Jewish Community Center. It is a worthy operation,...even though we are very sorry for the death of the innocent. You have to choose the target so as not to put the Muslim in an uncomfortable situation. Our brothers who want to struggle have to choose this target.'" —Brett Gentrup, Special Agent, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement quoting Alamoudi, contributor to our public school guildelines.
Alamoudi met often with then President and Hillary Clinton and has been described as Hillary's friend and advisor on Islamic affairs. Protected by Clinton's Presidential Guidelines, funding for Islamic educational materials began pouring in from Saudi Arabia and Muslim nations. Houghton Mifflin textbooks became saturated with Muslim beliefs as the Council of Islamic Education (CIE) helped write the textbook (originally denied by the publisher, Houghton Mifflin, until their Editorial Director was caught bragging about it in print).
CIE Director, Shabbir Mansuri, boasted that he is waging a "bloodless" revolution, promoting world cultures and faiths in America's classrooms. CIE has warned scholars and public officials who do not sympathize with its requests that they will be perceived as racists, reactionaries, and enemies of Islam.
Islamic organizations that remind Muslims it is their RELIGIOUS OBLIGATION (Dawa) to promulgate Islam are applauding Clinton and his religious guidelines today:
"In the U.S. one of the strongest arguments in favor of seeking religious accommodation for your child is President Bill Clinton's 1995 statement of principles addressing the extent to which religious expression and activity are permitted in public school. This was given to every school district in the United States." ~ SoundVision
Additionally, Clinton went beyond the ACLU copyright guidelines and added:
"Students generally do not have a Federal right to be excused from lessons that may be inconsistent with their religious beliefs or practices."
Pay attention. There went religious freedom.
At the end of his term, Clinton addressed Muslim leaders with a Ramadan message containing quotes from our children's textbooks today. Clinton categorically lists his accomplishments to Muslims:
"As America's six-million-member Muslim community grows in numbers and prominence, Americans of every religious tradition are learning more about the origins and meaning of Islam. That on "the Night of Power," the Angel Gabriel appeared to the Prophet Muhammad and revealed to him the first verses of the Koran. That the Koran declares that Ramadan was the month Allah's words were sent down, and so should be spent in fasting." -Bill Clinton
As terrorists executed attacks on America, then President Clinton slashed our defenses, gutted our intelligence, pardoned terrorists, halted investigations of Islamic charities and negotiated for peace, evidently with a powerful bargaining chip, our children through our public education system. Fundamentalist Islam is determined to advance, entering by persuasion within our public schools and by sword at our borders. President Clinton has clearly provided both doorways as we are swarmed by two approaches of Islam, courting our children while bombing our buildings.
Is it hard to believe Clinton, professing to be Christian, could betray Christ and America like this? Examine the fruit. Lying under oath, dubious activities with staff, slipping in an ACLU document as written by "religious groups" is compounded when one remembers how Hillary demanded public funding for (brace yourself) a dung covered depiction of the Virgin Mary, with breasts of elephant dung, surrounded by genital pornography at the Brooklyn Museum in October 1999.
Together the Clintons met with Muslim groups in the White House so often it became commonplace. In speeches against President Bush, Clinton has condemned America by blaming us for the Crusades. With this kind of history, it is not hard to believe Clinton betrayed America's Christian heritage and used our children as bargaining chips in negotiations with Islamic leaders.
Today, Christmas and Nativity scenes are outlawed while Clinton's nominee, U.S. District Judge Phyllis Hamilton, recently approved "Islam: A Simulation" where children learn to "become Muslim, recite the Quran, fast for Ramadan and pray to Allah including this prayer:
"In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.
Praise be to Allah, Lord of Creation,
The Compassionate, the Merciful,
King of Judgment-day!
You alone we worship, and to You alone we pray for help,
Guide us to the straight path."
The double-standard is shocking, but one need only look at our public school guidelines and who wrote them, with clauses designed to open or close doors at the will of the ACLU, (which also co-issued Clinton's guidelines), to discover how our nation finds itself in such a dreadful state today.
Sources:
http://www.blessedcause.org/clinton with much more documented source material and over 23 references
Newsmax Articles investigated and confirmed after above linked article:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/1/13/172143.shtml
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/1/15/121909.shtml
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/1/21/115449.shtml
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/1/29/123639.shtml
United States v. Alamoudi transcript (PDF!)
http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/usalamoudi93003dec.pdf
at June 22, 2005 1:01 PM
That's good:
We need plenty more of these A*#@holes! Let them come out and show their colours!
The noisier they are, the more insolent and unbearable they become, the sooner we will gain strength in our combined efforts to strip them of citizenship, to intern them, to close mosques and madrassahs and to make an end to this unbearable spook!
Perhaps a new political party must emerge, one that clearly has the expulsion of such people on the agenda, and the more people understand about what kind of cancer Islam is, the sooner action will be needed to eliminate it.
at June 22, 2005 1:07 PM
Their day is coming. One of these days a real man will witness their tricks and will whip the living shiite out of them. He will probably be the one in jail, but it will be worth it. (I'll contribute to his defense fund!)
Posted by: Carolyn2 at June 22, 2005 2:09 PM
"Imams, activists and other leaders worry that the group is misrepresenting Islam, sending a negative message to Muslim youths and damaging a hard-earned, fragile trust between the Muslim community and those in law enforcement..."
King: OK, so there seems to be a consensus that this group misrepresents.
Last time I checked, it is legal to burn/destroy an American flag. It is legal to speak against American foreign policy, it is legal to speak your mind politically. This group is not unlike any other fringe group. Period.
What's the problem, then? Oh, right - they're Muslim and you hate them.
"the sooner we will gain strength in our combined efforts to strip them of citizenship, to intern them, to close mosques and madrassahs and to make an end to this unbearable spook!"
King: This quote sounds a hell of a lot more violent, intolerant and anger-provoking than anything I read in the article! Good work, Herr Terminator! You keep making my job simple...
Posted by: KingTolerance at June 22, 2005 2:14 PM
King: This quote sounds a hell of a lot more violent, intolerant and anger-provoking than anything I read in the article! Good work, Herr Terminator! You keep making my job simple...
Posted by: KingTolerance at June 22, 2005 02:14 PM
Do you mean you get paid to be a wanker?
at June 22, 2005 2:31 PM
Here you are, Miss Klingklonk!
Just in case you missed it, I post it again for U:
Still using screws for the coffee-filter?
Must be a 'cultural' thing. I can tolerate that, even though it hurts you. I understand it King, I really do.
But UHU is the answer:
KT: Millions of grateful Mohammedans have (and still do) had the screws taken out and attached the coffee-filter with UHU!
Result:
UHU doesn't hurt like screws (do) and makes the Mohammedan male less aggressive. There are some promising signs: Coffee-filter attached with UHU doesn't inhibit the brain from developing (at least not as badly as when attached with screws)
Like FGM in the female (which causes the female not to experience any sexual pleasure and gives her nothing but pain instead) the coffee-filter attached to the Mohammedan skull stifles development and reduces reasoning abilities & critical thought.
A look in the mirror will show you King, a perfect example of Islamic lunacy, if you care to open your eyes to see.
----------------------------------------------------
King: This quote sounds a hell of a lot more violent, intolerant and anger-provoking than anything I read in the article! Good work, Herr Terminator! You keep making my job simple...
------------------------------------------------------
What's your 'job', Klinkklonk?
Da'wa? Kitman & Taqiyya?
Obfuscation and gaga?
Why do you ALWAYS LIE about not being a Mohammedan when everything about you has that stench about it?
Posted by: Terminator at June 22, 2005 2:44 PM
KT:
I allow you to call me 'Herr Terminator'- and you are quite right: My tolerance towards your blood-cult is equal to zero.
Just in case you don't know where to buy UHU let me know, I'll give you the link!
http://www.snopes.com/photos/advertisements/vwpolo.asp
Posted by: Terminator at June 22, 2005 2:57 PM
King: It's is legal to burn flag and criticize America's foreign policy, that's what makes this Culture so great.
By the way, where's all the Muslim's denouncing the killing of Theo Van Gogh for criticizing Islam, where are all the Muslims denouncing the fear Islam has foisted on all the writers who criticize Islam, from Rushdie to Manji to Ye'or, who have to have body guards or are in hiding.
There's a vast difference between the tolerance of Islam and the West(in the present day - don't keep using the Spanish Inquisition or Salem witch trials to compare the two), and all the evidence reveals that Islam is an intolerant culture.
That's what's at issue here. And history also shows that Islam, like a cancer, infects each culture it is in until it kills it, and replaces it with Islam.
Islam is now infecting Europe, and the people at Jihad Watch and Faith Freedom, et al, realize this and don't want it to happen to America.
By the way, your KingofTolerance handle is something that Mohammed would have used to calm any suspicions against his rivals before stabbing them in the back.
It's tacky, and I know you know it.
Posted by: nuh at June 22, 2005 3:01 PM
KingTolerance:
I surprised you didn't notice the overt bigotry and hatred for non-Muslims in America , read the article again and show me where
the Imams and Leaders put aside their hurt feelings to show the outrage that innocent civilians might be murdered by the actions of this group that hijacked Islam.
I see a obvious deafening silence by Muslims that really give conscent for this behavior
since it will be infidels being slaughtered,Muslims in Canada want Shariah-Law Courts which are said to protect females and give them more Rights than Canadian ones in the Charter.
But I'll ask you this,if the Quran values mothers and condemns violence which you ascribe to be your values , it's easy to claim you agree with them but what do you do when you see a woman being attacked.
CAIR loves to claim they're against bigotry and false allegations that can damage a persons career,but the only time they exercise that virtue is when Muslims are the perceived victims
and when other Muslims are the bigots and Infidelophobes it barely gets a mention.
at June 22, 2005 3:03 PM
Herr Terminator: "I allow you to call me 'Herr Terminator'- and you are quite right: My tolerance towards your blood-cult is equal to zero."
King: Oh, good. I'm glad you've cleared that all up, albeit with psychotic babble. Yet another "Dhimmi Watcher" represents! You're doing a bang-up job, I might add.
Nuh: "your KingofTolerance handle is something that Mohammed would have used to calm any suspicions against his rivals before stabbing them in the back."
King: First, its "King Tolerance" minus the "of" you threw in. Second, what??
Nuh: "It's tacky, and I know you know it."
King: What's tacky here is your use of words like "Cancer" & "infect".
at June 22, 2005 3:08 PM
King Coffee-filter:
The proof is in the pudding:
Coffee-filters are not bulletproof:
http://www.grouchyoldcripple.com/archives/001726.html
at June 22, 2005 3:23 PM
King Tolerance,
You entered this thread by mentioning how this keeps your job simple. What is your job here, exactly? Do you think your job is to antagonize others with views that you don’t agree with.
A tolerant individual would accept every point of view as equal and do so without judging. In fact, there would be no need for a truly tolerant individual to post anything at all because what would be the point? A tolerant individual accepts everything, so posting your point of view is actually irrelevant.
at June 22, 2005 3:52 PM
Weren't muslims in America supposed to be more patriotic towards America than European muslims were to Europe?
It seems that America will experience the same problems with muslims that Europeans do.
In Australia, muslims are mainly located in the South West of Sydney. But as they breed, they will be found all over Sydney and Australia. That's going to be scary.
Posted by: Voltaire at June 22, 2005 5:40 PM
"Last time I checked, it is legal to burn/destroy an American flag. It is legal to speak against American foreign policy, it is legal to speak your mind politically. This group is not unlike any other fringe group. Period."
It is not legal to threaten to overthrow the U.S. government or threaten to kill someone.
Yes, it is legal for the Islamic Thinkers Society (an oxymoron that) to burn a U.S. flag as a form of personal expression. It is also legal for us to burn a copy of the Quran for the same reason.
I doubt if you will see large scale book burnings here, at least from the older Americans, because that brings to mind the Nazi book burnings of the 1930's. But it IS just as legal as burning a U.S. flag.
And if the ITS opposes America, why are they still here?
jay
Posted by: jay at June 22, 2005 5:48 PM
Read their site, they are threatened.
http://www.islamicthinkers.com/index.htm
Posted by: Carolyn2 at June 22, 2005 5:52 PM
Scroll all the way to the bottom of their site, they have our posts there.
Posted by: Carolyn2 at June 22, 2005 6:00 PM
Post this *TITS*....Your day is coming, that's not a threat, just the truth. You are not going to succeed in turning our country into a 7th century house- of -horrors. We will oppose you.
Posted by: Carolyn2 at June 22, 2005 6:06 PM
Since the USA is engaged in an undeclared war with radical islam, those individuals living here who are radical islamists (like the members of the group so identified herein) should be deported. I think this is a view of the majority in the USA and laws should be enacted to make it happen. I am waiting for one (just one) Congressperson to introduce legislation to that effect.
Radical Islamists want to kill or convert the rest of us. All we want to do is deport them.
at June 22, 2005 7:00 PM
I didn't notice the ITS folks burning the American flag in that video (perhaps they did), but they did spend a fair amount of time stopming on it and wiping their feet on it.
I recently bought a video camera for my wife. And I'm anxiously awaiting the arrival of the Quran I requested from the nice man at CAIR (I don't CARE to pay for one!).
Anyone else got a digital camera and a Quran?
I'm sure the ITS folks would be quite impressed with a few videos of folks wiping their dirty shoes on a Quran.
Carolyn2 has been kind enough to provide their website, above.
Posted by: PRCS at June 22, 2005 7:04 PM
Islamic Thinkers Society...Ha! Ha! That's a good one!
The only thing they're thinking about is American ASS that is walking past the bodega, while they drink their beer and smoke their blunt!
Posted by: magnoon at June 22, 2005 8:25 PM
Let them rage, and let the neighbors and authorities keep an eye on their histrionics.
If they had any brains, they would dress like Wall Street clerks, carry briefcases, and use the court system to tie itself up in Constitutional knots with frivolous dead end petitions. Forcing the legal apparatus to waste money, time, energy, and ingenuity. And deflecting the justice department from engaging in any actual work (toward the defense of the country) by snarling it in this mesmerizing mumbo-jumbo.
Oh, wait, that's C.A.I.R.!
The more flags these punks in NYC burn, the more light they shed on their cause.
Keep that legal, and they will remain visible.
Meanwhile, The Congressional Follies are making yet another pandering attempt to ban the 'desecration' the American flag with an Amendment to the Constitution. Utterly misunderstanding the meaning of the flag. And the word 'desecration'. (The flag is not a religious object, so it cannot be made 'de-sacred'.)
And also failing to grasp the 1st Amendment's guarantee of freedom of speech. By their own definition, money for political PACS is some kind of "speech", so, destroying a political symbol in protest is an even more valid kind of "speech".
Plus, while they go through this vapid "Yankee Doodle Dandy" song and dance routine, they are squandering their REAL chance to spend the same sweat and santimonious spittle on a truly necessary Amendment to the Constitution.
One that would dramatically improve the future of the United States, and materially aid in its defense and survival: (a proposal)
The 28th Amendment:
No person merely born within the territory of the United States of America shall, from this day forward, be granted automatic citizenship -unless their mother is already a citizen of the United States at the time of the birth.
This would save the country trillions of dollars by guaranteeing that people trying to emigrate into the U.S. would, from that moment onward, be motivated to do it legally.
By removing this economic and "citizen baby" incentive, there would be no advantage to merely getting across a border to drop their offspring into the social care system's gullible arms. Nor would it be a way for the parents to leech along for the free-ride in the United Suckerdom of America by claiming that they needed to stay to take care of this "little new American".
But, the (almost non-existant and laughably harmless) 'crime' of 'flag burning' is clearly more important to the scholars in Congress than the ongoing self-immolation that the country is experiencing through the cynical manipulation by infiltrators of one of the Constitution's serious flaws.
Congress' blind acceptance of this ongoing "illegal-made-legal-just-by-being-smuggled-in-to-be-born" LUNACY undermines of the nation.
But I guess the Representatives can cover it up with a mess of waving flags.
'Intellectual' Suicide Bombers.
Your tax dollars at shirk.
Posted by: BigSleep at June 22, 2005 9:55 PM
This particular group made their group name way too easy to adapt to properly classify them according to their behavior.
For instance, the Islamic Thinker's Society can easily be transformed into the Islamic Stinker's Society. Afterall, who else but a bunch of stinkers would desecrate an American flag and essentially call fellow Muslims to fight the US?
Posted by: Dilophos at June 22, 2005 10:00 PM
Last time I checked, it is legal to burn/destroy an American flag. It is legal to speak against American foreign policy, it is legal to speak your mind politically. This group is not unlike any other fringe group. Period.
You are right it is still legal and even speaking your opinion is legal and constitutional but these radicals were talking about the overthrow of America in the name of Allah and force Islamic law on the non-Muslims. In a time of war that is nothing short of treason!!!
The radical Muslims have no repect for a weak tolerant person like yourself and given chance they would force you into dhimmitude and strip you of your rights, unless you convert.
I am half Greek and I know the oppression under Islam my ancestors went through and don't think it can't happen here.
I have your medication;
"Liberalism is a Mental Disorder" by Michael Savage
at June 22, 2005 11:02 PM
Here is a little from the above link,------
"May allah (s.w.t.) help those who expose the Crusaders and Zionists and their dirty schemes. And may allah (s.w.t.) give painful torment to Robert Spencer and Grayson Levy who are waging an e-Crusade on us by publishing false information about us.
(The next part is in red, bold, all caps)
DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT ROBERT SPENCER AND GRAYSON LEVY WRITES ABOUT US. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO ARE PRODUCING HATRED AMONGST INNOCENT AND GULLIBLE AMERICAN PUBLIC TO CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THE DESECRATION OF THE QUR'AN. SO WE SAY THIS AGAIN;
(The next part is in white on black background bold, all caps)
WE THE MUSLIMS OF ISLAMIC THINKERS SOCIETY ARE AN INTELLECTUAL AND POLITICAL NON-VIOLENT ORGANIZATION AND WE DO NOT HAVE ANY CONNECTIONS WITH FOREIGN ORGANIZATIONS WHATSOEVER.
----------
Funny, I just remember watching a video of muslims who hate me and my country. I don't remember RS saying much about this crew except they are affiliated with the London based maroons.
at June 23, 2005 12:05 AM
Carolyn2-
Somehow the phrase: "...give painful torment..." preceding: "We are ... a nonviolent organization..."
-don't seem to connect in their little thinking apparatuses.
I guess the fumes from the burning flags are clouding their noggins.
Posted by: BigSleep at June 23, 2005 12:55 AM
Fuck you KT!
Posted by: Truth at June 23, 2005 2:09 AM
Fuck you KT!
Posted by: Truth at June 23, 2005 2:11 AM
Fuck you KT!
Posted by: Truth at June 23, 2005 2:12 AM
King Tolerance
I am curious. We do get alot of Islamist trolls here pretending not to be Islamists. Since you are the King of Tolerance do you post as many criticisms at anti-jihad websites as you do at Jihad promoting sites? Could you direct us to some pro-jihad sites where you post criticisms against Jihadists under the name of King Tolerance? If you don't post criticisms at Jihad promoting sites you should know that it would be more productive if you did. No-one here kills and murders people. Shouldn't your efforts be better spent posting against those who commit atrocities instead of posting against those who are profoundly sick of those atrocities and commit no acts of murder, rape and torture themselves?
Posted by: obl r us at June 23, 2005 2:55 AM
p.s. to King Tolerance. If you are not a Islamist troll then you could also start placing significant numbers of posts here aimed at criticising Islamists. These are the people who are commiting the atrocities. They should be the principal focus of your posting efforts if you are genuine.
Posted by: obl r us at June 23, 2005 3:06 AM
DC Watson:
they're nothing more than cowardly punks with battleship mouths and slinkys for spines.
LOL - that's very funny!!!
Posted by: Interested at June 23, 2005 5:04 AM
Scroll all the way to the bottom of their site, they have our posts there.
--------------------------------------------------
hey muslims, if you don't like the West
THEN GO AWAY!
In Hinduism, Durga Mata, the mother goddess represents purity and strength. She carries the sword of truth, destroys demons, conquers ignorance and leads humans to enlightenment.
and allah (piss on him) is one of those demons who is going to be destroyed
at June 23, 2005 5:12 AM
Did someone say "Inquistion"? As Evil as it was in some aspects The Spanish Inquistion is big part of the reason "Al Andalus"....is still called Spain. The poor folks in Spain think that the 3/11 bombings have so much to do with Iraq. It's part of it, but not all of it. Spain was once "Dar Al Islam"....so they have a bone to pick with Spain that's been stuck in their craw for over eight centuries.
Posted by: Infidel One at June 23, 2005 6:03 AM
Cross, Carolyn et., al...
Great information. Thanks for posting.
Posted by: jawa at June 23, 2005 6:46 AM
Watch it, folks:
'piss on Allah'- equals we accept 'he' exists. Allah was Mohammeds invention, so its 'piss on Mohammed...'
Don't get it mixed up!
Same for 'Muslims'- that's what they like to be called. It is sooo much 'nicer...' to call them 'Mohammedans'...
Call them Mohammedans, that's what they are: They follow the cult of Mohammed. That's muc h more to the point, and it annoys the shit out of them...
Posted by: Terminator at June 23, 2005 6:52 AM
Cross: "You entered this thread by mentioning how this keeps your job simple. What is your job here, exactly?"
King: My job is to simply watch all of you make your comments and then point out the following ironies:
1. Most of you sound as extreme and radical as those you oppose.
2. Most of you make comments that lump an entire group of people (1.2 billion) under the umbrella of extremists. This is ignorant and bigoted.
3. Many of you claim to be Christian, a religion that has soaked itself in blood as it spread throughout the world, almost erasing some populations in the process. As you chastize Islam for its violnce, I find the complete ignoring of your dirty acctics most ironic.
Eaglecap: "these radicals were talking about the overthrow of America in the name of Allah and force Islamic law on the non-Muslims. In a time of war that is nothing short of treason!!!"
King: I'm afraid this makes absolutely no sense. You are free to talk about anything you want, right? Your disagreement with this group is noted but they are free to SAY whatever they want. if they DO something, then you've got yourself criminals. Until then, who cares?
at June 23, 2005 8:10 AM
"King: My job is to simply watch all of you make your comments and then point out the following ironies"
Don't you think focusing your efforts more on the people actually murdering, raping and torturing people would be more productive. Isn't that of much greater value? Feel free to criticise anyone but where are your criticisms of the people actually committing the atrocities. There are numerous opportunities for you to do this at this website.
Posted by: obl r us at June 23, 2005 8:19 AM
OK King, another one of your quotes " As you chastize Islam for its violnce, I find the complete ignoring of your dirty acctics most ironic."
When will you call islam "dirty"? And no, saying that you have a distaste for radical islam is not the same. Let's hear the same rhetoric for islam as you (slime) say about Christianity.
at June 23, 2005 12:47 PM
KingTolerance:
There is a big difference between a person that does harm and happens to claim to be a Christian and the Muslim that claims the Quran orders them to wage Jihad on the infidels to claim the Earth for Allah.
Show me where Christ ordered mass murders and told his followers to hate their enemies and
smite the necks of those that don't submit
to Christs teachings.
Pretend I'm from St.Louis in the "Show-Me" State.
at June 23, 2005 4:25 PM
KingTolerance:
There is a big difference between a person that does harm and happens to claim to be a Christian and the Muslim that claims the Quran orders them to wage Jihad on the infidels to claim the Earth for Allah.
Show me where Christ ordered mass murders and told his followers to hate their enemies and
smite the necks of those that don't submit
to Christs teachings.
Pretend I'm from St.Louis in the "Show-Me" State.
at June 23, 2005 4:25 PM
obl r us: "Don't you think focusing your efforts more on the people actually murdering, raping and torturing people would be more productive."
King: Please read my posts more carefully. I've stated on bizillions of occasions that I hate, despise, and otherwise loathe radicals and their interpretation of Islam which they use for violent, opressive means. I do not see the entire religion as responsible.
Carolyn2 continues: "When will you call islam "dirty"?"
King: Still on this, are we? Verywell...
Carolyn2: "saying that you have a distaste for radical islam is not the same."
King: Bingo! You are 100% correct that there is a distinct difference between saying "Islam is dirty" and saying "I have a distaste for radical Islam.!" The funny thing is that you see this as a fault, I see this distinction as intelluctually honest. My platform is based on the fact that I do not cast out any religion in its entirety based on the corruption and behaviors of those who wish to do evil with it. This goes for Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc. I see all of the world's religions as peaceful, good, and righteous in their own ways. I also see how each and every one of the world's major religons have been held prisoner by radicalism.
ala-sux: "There is a big difference between a person that does harm and happens to claim to be a Christian and the Muslim that claims the Quran orders them to wage Jihad on the infidels to claim the Earth for Allah."
King: No, you are comparing two different things here and trying to get me to buy it. If a Christian murders a doctor at an abortion clinic beause he/she is opposed to abortion on religious grounds, that would make them a Christian radical - right? Afterall, they';ve interpreted the Bible and acted on their interpretation to support their behavior. People do this and people support this.
If a self-proclaimed Christian murders a person for $50.00 that makes him a common criminal, no religion involved. Equivically, if a Muslim does something violent "In the name of Allah" that makes him a radical, a hypocrite and a criminal, too. I do not accept radical interpretations of Islam as "it." Neither should you. I do, however, understand why there are many people in the world who not only interpret the Koran radically but are also allowed to act violently.
Ala-sux challenged: "Show me where Christ ordered mass murders and told his followers to hate their enemies and
smite the necks of those that don't submit
to Christs teachings."
King: You wanna "See?"
Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." Matthew 10:21
Luke 12:47 Jesus okays beating slaves.
Jesus says, “Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace on earth! No, rather a sword lf you love your father, mother, sister, brother, more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. Matthew 10:34
And he smote of the men of Beth-shemesh, because they had looked into the ark of Jehovah, he smote of the people seventy men, `and' fifty thousand men; and the people mourned, because Jehovah had smitten the people with a great slaughter. And the men of Beth-shemesh said, Who is able to stand before Jehovah, this holy God? and to whom shall he go up from us? (1Samuel 6:19-20 ASV)
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
"You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers. "As you watch, I will repay Babylon and the people of Babylonia for all the wrong they have done to my people in Jerusalem," says the LORD. "Look, O mighty mountain, destroyer of the earth! I am your enemy," says the LORD. "I will raise my fist against you, to roll you down from the heights. When I am finished, you will be nothing but a heap of rubble. You will be desolate forever. Even your stones will never again be used for building. You will be completely wiped out," says the LORD. (Jeremiah 51:20-26)
If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)
ENOUGH???
at June 23, 2005 7:50 PM
There is nothing wrong with hating Islam. it is evil.
Posted by: hutchrun at June 24, 2005 4:28 AM
King Tolerance.
It is good that you know about some verses in the bible that are violent in nature. However in your own words "who cares" if there are such verses if no christians or Jews are using them to commit atrocities. The relevant issue for today should be that muslims are refering to the negative verses in their religious texts and are being inspired to murder people.
p.s. I do read your posts...you do occasionaly post a line or two against muslim fanantics then you go on to write whole chapters against christianity. Isn't that illogical since the christians arn't the ones commiting atrocities at the moment?
at June 24, 2005 5:19 AM
King 'I do not accept radical interpretations of Islam as "it." Neither should you.'
Then you need to show us what 'it' is.
Your devil's advocate attempt to use Christianity to justify violence is not convincing.
"Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." Matthew 10:21"
Jesus makes a prediction here. It is plainly not an exhortation to action.
"Luke 12:47 Jesus okays beating slaves."
"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows." It is metaphorical, Jesus is talking about believers (servants) and saying that they'd better get their acts together if they don't want to get on the wrong side of the master (God). It's a parable. Peter even identifies it as such in a previous verse. Nobody is supposed to go and beat their servants because of that.
"Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace on earth! No, rather a sword. If you love your father, mother, sister, brother, more than me, you are not worthy of being mine." Matthew 10:34
Jesus again predicts that His coming will cause division in the world. It is not an exhortation to violence.
King leaves the Gospel at this point, which is a good idea, because one might start to wonder why, if Jesus preached war, why didn't he start one? The Romans were certainly asking for it. This puts an immediate dampener on anyone using Jesus to justify violence. Sadly the same does not apply to Mohammed.
The Old Testament verses that King quotes are just some of the many verses in which God is seen to practice violence or encourage the Jews to do likewise. King is onto something here. But why isn't there a worldwide Jewish insurgency dedicated to the overthrow of secular regimes and the institution of Mosaic law? Why is Israel debating whether to let gays march through Jerusalem, instead of stoning them? Interesting questions. I'm not Jewish, so I can't provide answers.
Posted by: Viking5 at June 24, 2005 5:56 PM
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