It is still not too late to write to your MP about this. If you have already done so then wrtie again. Or to the press, MEP, A peer. Most posters here will be happy to draft their own letter with all the arguments. If you are unsure of the best wording then the Barnabas Fund, a Chruch of England organisation http://www.barnabasfund.org/ has some sample paragraphs on their website. Click on "rapid lobbying network" and scroll down to the item about writing to the House of Lords. That is from the Governments last attempt to foist this on us, but the arguements remain the same. Plus there are developements in Victoria on yesterday's DW which you might want to bring in.

THEY SHALL NOT PASS.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 23, 2005 8:11 AM

Granny

I am going to do exactly that and spread the word to friends around the country by e-mail right now.

Posted by: Zico at June 23, 2005 9:02 AM

Me too. It's not over yet.

(The Harry's Place thread on this has stretched to 281 comments, with me and a gay guy arguing with a dickhead self-righteous leftie. He (the gay guy) would also be a potential victim of this law, as Mad Mullahs would be able to spew stuff about walls and defenestration with impunity while calling me and Granny W sluts for our Hampstead cavorting.)

Posted by: Interested at June 23, 2005 9:11 AM

Interested

Next time you sluts are cavorting in Zionist Occupied Hampstead with your Sodomite or Pagan friends, please remember not to sneeze or pass wind in an Easterly direction as it is Islamophobic to do such acts in the face of Mecca.

- By Order of Hampstead Council in accordance with Anti-Islamophobia Council Regulation Sharia Code 786, passed by Imam Livingstone, Lord Mayor of London

Failure to obey these regulations by all Kaffir, Pagans, Jews, Prostitutes (Women who are un-burqa'd) will result in seven years imprisonment for inciting Religious Hatred Against Islam, followed by eternal damnation in Hellfire having your spine ripped out and etc etc etc

Posted by: Zico at June 23, 2005 9:42 AM

This is beyond belief. This betrays the English and even Anglo-American past. This betrays the spirit, if not the letter, of Areopagitica, of Hume, of the case of John Peter Zenger, of the First Amendment, of John Stuart Mill, and of every damn thing that is worth having.

So what would be the result? People in the United Kingdom could presumably discuss and criticize Islam, but not Muslims. They would be allowed to say that Islam uncompromsingly divides the world between Believer and Infidel. That it offers a role-model who enjoyed watching the decapitation of bound prisoners, who orders the assassination of those who offend him, who breaks treaties because "war is deception," has sexual intercourse with a nine-year-old who had been playing with her toys, and does a hundred other unedifying things. That Islam teaches its followers to spread Islam until it covers the globe, until there are no barriers to its spread and it dominates, and Muslim rule is established even wihtout a Muslim majority. That dar al-Islam is always at war with dar al-Harb. That non-Muslims have three choices according to Islamic teachings: death, conversion, or in the case of Christians, Jews, and those who for practical reasons (i.e., they are more useful to Muslims as jizya-paying subjects than dead) are treated as "honorary" People of the Book, who may be allowed to live and to practice, under severe constraints, their religion, but must endure, for all time, a status of humiliation, degradation, and insecurity which, in fact, has been the lot of all non-Muslims in lands subjugated by Islam, whether those non-Muslims have been Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, or others.

But apparently one will not be allowed to criticize those who belief these things, who wish to spread Islam, who may in spreading Islam deliberately target the economically and psychically marginal, who will take money from rich Muslims abroad, who cannot conceivably, to the extent that they give, as they are instructed to, their sole loyalty to Islam, to also offer loyalty to the Infidel nation-state.

No, one will be allowed to say that this is what Islam teaches, but never to criticizie the very people who believe all of these things, and whenever and wherever they have had a chance to act on those beliefs without doing damage to their own interests or those of Islam, have demonstrated that they will do so -- and do so.

This is Beyond the Fringe. This is Monty Python. This is Through the Looking-Glass. This, surely, is the apotheosis of English humor.

It cannot stand. It cannot be.

Posted by: Hugh at June 23, 2005 9:51 AM

The Islamic ideology is an idea. The Koran is a thing. Christianity is an idea. The Bible is a thing...

So now ideas and things have rights. Does the global community need a companion to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that we might call the Universal Declaration on the Rights of Ideas and Things? Violation of the rights of ideas and things will result in loss of freedom for the human "criminals". In Pakistan violation of the rights of the Koran, a thing, is punishable by death.

Madness. Utter madness.

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at June 23, 2005 10:05 AM

the apotheosis of English humour

(Nifty bit of HTML, eh, Zico?)

Apart from the obvious problems with this law, the uncertainty surrounding what constitutes a religion (not defined), what constitutes hatred (not defined) and what constitutes 'likely' ('likely to incite..'), means that it is automatically a bad law.

Because people will be uncertain about the consequences of speaking out, for example against abuse of women in Islam, there will be a great deal of self censorship. It could then be claimed that the law was working - people speaking freely might not be successfully prosecuted, but the problem would be that so many weren't.

Posted by: Interested at June 23, 2005 10:14 AM

Is there anyway to find out what MPs voted for this ?

Posted by: TooBad at June 23, 2005 10:43 AM

Unfortunately it will require individuals of extreme courage to challenge this travesty - likely through civil disobedience.

A good example is the case of the Australian pastors at Catch the Fire Ministries who were charged with having vilified Muslims (they did no such thing - they just pointed out what Islam says). One of the pastor will go to jail rather than appologize.

From the article:

"A Christian pastor found guilty of vilifying muslims says he is prepared to go to jail in protest over Victoria's racial tolerance laws."

"Outside the tribunal Pastor Daniel Nalliah said the legislation is flawed.

"I will do everything I can, even if I have to go to prison, to make sure the vilification laws, the religious part of the vilification laws, be removed from the state of Victoria," Pastor Nalliah said.

"Right from the beginning we have stated we will not apologise, we will go to prison for standing for the truth."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200506/s1397914.htm

Posted by: johnb at June 23, 2005 11:10 AM

Write to the Queen.
No law can be passed without her approval. Queen Victoria vetoed legislation, so why not Elizabeth?

Tell her our precious and time-honoured heritage is at stake. Tell her we have more faith in our royals than our career politicians who would sell out our future just for more votes in the next election.

Posted by: Elephant at June 23, 2005 11:58 AM

Is there anyway to find out what MPs voted for this ?

Yes, but you will have to ferret a little through:-

http://www.direct.gov.uk/Hl1/Help/YourQuestions/YourQuestionsArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=10014403&chk=7vbs50

the apotheosis of English humour

(Nifty bit of HTML, eh, Zico?)

Very nifty indeed. I fear Hugh has been writing for the cousins for too long.

I have just re-read my earlier post. I was in a tearing hurry, sorry for the spelling mistakes and typos.:-( The Queen is a good idea, she has more moral influence than one might think, also The Prince of Wales although he has none.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 23, 2005 12:16 PM

(Nifty bit of HTML, eh, Zico?)

I am impressed.

Verily, Allah was wrong when he said that women were born from Satan's Mothers armpits to incite Man to rape, drool and fornicate.

Infidel woman know HTML.

Granny

Boris Johnson made a blinding speech in the House apparently, reading extracts from the Koran as an example of real 'incitement to religious hatred'

Civil disobedience will be the key if this wretched and sinister law gets passed.

Posted by: Zico at June 23, 2005 12:38 PM

I am very pro free speech so I am 100% opposed to any laws that try to stifle it. This is a bad law.

Posted by: KingTolerance at June 23, 2005 1:05 PM

Good to hear it KT. I've never actually met anyone who wants this law. even on the lefty blog, the general view is against it. Muslim women will be the first to suffer from it as nobody will be able to speak up for them and against the religion that oppresses them. So who is this law for?

It's just New Labour control-freakery and pandering to the Muslim vote.

Disgusting.

Posted by: Interested at June 23, 2005 1:19 PM

What if I start a religion that HATES this bill?

"The Temple of the the Termagant Twits", mayhaps?

Will England's head implode?

(Jonathan Swift now available to be harnessed to provide spinning electricity to power the entire London Grid!)

Posted by: BigSleep at June 23, 2005 1:30 PM

GW notes my spelling and expresses the fear that I have been "writing for the cousins for too long." You could have knocked me down with a feather and coloured me Kubrick. After all, I am a cousin myself -- a Yankee Doodle Dandy and a wild colonial boy. The transatlantic cluelessness, the u-lessness, the mounting cisatlantic orthographic debts of I-owe-u's, all come with the territory - L'Amerique septentrionale.

Posted by: Hugh at June 23, 2005 1:59 PM

Hugh-

I honour your humour
Of tumour, (it's rumoured),
Islamic, teutonic.

(That's all the spare "u"'s I've got handy, so will desist at this point of valor.)

Posted by: BigSleep at June 23, 2005 2:48 PM

The UK is going down the tubes - going down the dhimmitubes!

This law, if it is passed (and you can bet your life it will be passed) will be a very bad law indeed, and for many reasons: first and foremost, it takes away people's freedom of speech and expression; secondly, it is ill-defined, meaning that people will be left in the dark about what they will be allowed to say and what they will not be allowed to say (which will result in silence out of fear); thirdly, it will give Islam and Muslims the comparative advantage - the advantage in spreading their (they would argue Allah's) ill-conceived and dangerous ideas and philosophy of life; and fourthly, but not least, it will throw away all that the British people have fought, and gone to war, for over the years: it will throw away our liberty!

This law will be nothing but a step towards tyranny through the back door. Further, freedom of speech and expression, once lost, will be hard to regain. Henceforward, people in the UK will have to live in fear - in fear of falling foul of this ridiculous and Draconian legislation: legislation that will cause them to lose their liberty, legislation that could mean incarceration for them.

This one piece of legislation makes a mockery of the very concept of bringing democracy to the Middle East. What good will it do us to bring democracy to that part of the world (a concept I believe is flawed anyway) if we lose our own democracy and freedom at home?

OBL couldn't have wished for a better outcome from the tragedy of 9/11! Our politicians are spineless, spunkless, and stupid! They fail to understand the greatest threat to democracy today: the growth and spread of Islam. Our politicians lack insight, courage, and fortitude! Churchill must surely be turning in his grave!

If one cannot say that 9/11 was caused by Islamic terrorism, one endangers one's future, and one certainly cannot speak the truth. So what will happen if there's another 9/11? Are the British, henceforward, not to be allowed to speak the truth? Are we not to be allowed to call a spade a spade? Are we not to be allowed to define our enemy?

This is a ludicrous situation: it is ludicrous and ridiculous and stupid. It is a betrayal of all Britain has ever stood for! Shame on the government for its intention to rob the British people of their rights!

In sadness!

Posted by: MA at June 23, 2005 2:51 PM

Hey it might not end up so well for Muslims after all. How many times in the Quran do Jews and Christians and pagans get vilified? It would make the Quran an illegal book in a single sweeping move, and criminals out of all Muslims.

Cheers!

Posted by: Lorenzo at June 23, 2005 4:26 PM

Lorenzo
This is what has been suggested, that we will have to make sure that the legislation works for us, not against us.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at June 23, 2005 5:48 PM

Will it be illegal to criticise Islamic fundamentalism, or Osama Bin Laden?

Posted by: Voltaire at June 23, 2005 5:51 PM

This law will never be passed. I doubt that the secound chamber will allow it, when it fails the Lords enough opposition to this idiocy will have built up in the commons. Its just not something people want, if we do allow this then it's our fault. We must make the gov. aware that this is a line they must not cross.

I can't find any link, but I do recall in the aftermath of the Rushdie affair Lord Jenkins of the Lib Dems (before they became the Looney Dhimmicrats)stated that it was a mistake to allow muslim immigration into the UK (C4 news - If any one has any info on this I would be gratefull).

I don't think that all in the gov/CS are that ignorant of the five letter word. They seem to me to be terrified of what the infidel reaction might be if or when they find out what Islam has in store for them. Remember the aims of the Stop the War Coalition in the immediate aftermath of 9-11 - Stop the war and prevent a backlash against muslims.

Gov. fears on this has been ruthlessly exploited by the left. Those who know have been silenced eihter through self censorship (fear of being responsible for the 'racists attacks that the gov. feel would be inevitable as a result) or the fear of being branded Islamophobic and being showered with cattle excrement, or worse (I would love to know exactly what Islamphobia actually stands for; Rape-o-phobia, child-molestation-o-phobia, genocide-o-phobia and every other barbarism Islam codifies into its canonical texts-o-phobia).

In the Queens speech Nuclear Power was back on the agenda, Straw stating not expect to much from Iran, EU president stating that for Turkey there was no guarantee that negotiations would lead to membership (good news for a change see http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4119580.stm).

Some may be beginning to wake up, but perceptions, not facts are the be all and end all for the political classes (and civil servants), this is a long drawn out affair.

In my discussions with civil servants in the UK they feel that it's imperative not to be seen to be anti-Islam. This may cause open tensions and the blame would fall on them (the left/islamicists would have a field day), then there is a small matter of "international opinion" (read muslim)getting our hands on recylced petro-dollars.

They seem to think that being in the minority some concessions here and there won't make much difference on the ground, not to make these concessions (religious schools, hate law etc) would lead to charges of discrimmination. In short they feel that they need to be seen to be doing their upmost not to increase muslim rage.

Also I might add this is to do with making muslims appear confortable with the fact that they are muslim, when the opposite shoud be the case.

What this bill will do is to make muslims appear to be the victims. They are the persecutors not the victims, how many thousands of apostates live in fear due to Islam, how many women have been subject to abuse (muslim and non-muslim), there have been many more 'honour killings' (read Islamically inspired) than racist murders.

This is what the gov. shoud be addressing.

JV

Posted by: jv at June 23, 2005 6:24 PM

Finally, it`ll now be legal for muslims to kill infidels in UK. Truly, Allah is great.

Posted by: hutchrun at June 24, 2005 4:11 AM