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There are so many distortions and inaccuracies in this short article that it would take a book to disentangle them all. From IslamOnline, with thanks to Anthony:
GENEVA, June 26, 2005 (IslamOnline.net) – The West has misjudged Islam and done it injustice, largely because of shallow knowledge of the Muslim faith driven from the distorted writings of early orientalists, a prominent Swiss expert has said.
I see. So the Christian lands of the Middle East and North Africa were subjugated and Islamized in the seventh century and thereafter not by Islamic jihad armies, but by the distorted writings of early orientalists. Got it.
“Rising Islamophobia is the result of the West’s shallow dealing with and misunderstanding of Islam,” Arnold Hottinger, who spent 50 years in the Middle East reporting for the leading Neue Zurcher Zeitung newspaper, told a day-long seminar organized by the Paulus Akademie.
Not that it, if it exists at all, has anything to do with 9/11, or the Iraq beheadings, or the Madrid bombings, or countless other actions by Muslims. No. Hottinger is obviously of the Saidist mindset that Westerners can only be perpetrators, and Muslim non-Westerners can only be victims.
Hottinger, a fluent speaker of Arabic,...
Oh, well, you see, then he must know what he is talking about. This kind of thing slips by the reader so quickly that usually he doesn't even notice what is being done to him. See, he knows more than the Orientalists. I, on the other hand, am in daily contact with many fluent speakers of Arabic who could explain in dozens of ways how this man is wrong. So we're back to zero on this one.
...faulted the West of portraying Muslims as the terrifying neighbor for long centuries."Early orientlists and churchmen only portrayed Islam as a religion of violence and wars" he told his attentive audience.
“This image found its way into textbooks, turning the Muslim world to a terrifying neighbor, which is a major injustice to Islam.”
Look. Muslims advanced into Spain and Europe in the 8th century. Nine centuries later, mujahedin were besieging Vienna. There was no significant hiatus in between except during the time of the Crusades. The Muslims, in short, were the terrifying neighbor for Christian Europe for hundreds of years. If there had been no Muslim invasions of the West, Hottinger might have a point. As it is, he stands simply as a shallow propagandist.
Hottinger has authored a number of books about the Muslim world in addition to writing many articles and giving lectures.Negative Image
The Swiss expert said Islam is a melting pot for people of different ethnic and cultural background, a fact, he said, that is hard for the West to conceive.
Note that he doesn't say it's a melting pot for people of different religious backgrounds. No, the dhimmis are to keep discreetly out of sight during this presentation. But Hottinger's contention is absurd in any case: it's designed to portray the Muslim world as superior to the West in terms of ethnic and cultural diversity -- witness the immigrants from all over the world streaming into Riyadh and Tehran!
“No textbook in the West explains how Islam rapidly grew in Asia, which is home to the majority of Muslims worldwide,” Hottinger said.
Oh, it hasn't been entirely ignored. You can find some information on the bloody jihads in India in my book Onward Muslim Soldiers.
“When the Muslim immigrants came to Europe, a negative image of Islam was already deeply-rooted.”
Meanwhile, while drawing a veil over the blood-soaked history of jihad and dhimmitude, he predictably enough skewers Western colonialism:
The Swiss expert also shed light on Europe's bad history of imperialism and colonialism in Arab and Muslim countries.He cited Europe’s role in the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire, causing many ethnic and border conflicts still raving in several Arab and Muslim countries.
Why, that's precisely the complaint of the global jihadists.
When the First World War (1914-18) broke out, the Ottoman Empire broke neutrality and fought on the side of the Central Powers.The Ottomans were eventually defeated by the Allies in the Balkans, Thrace, Syria, Palestine and Iraq and its territories were colonized by the victors.
EU & Turkey
On Turkey’s bid to join the European Union, Hottinger said refusal to allow the admission of Muslim but secular Turkey would be a “big mistake”.
He cautioned that such a position would have major consequences as it would prove the view of "Muslim extremists" that the West is not willing to make any rapprochement with Islam and Muslims.
Actually it is only the West that has shown any interest in such a rapprochement. What has been done, Hottinger, on the Muslim side?
“It will also prove that Europe is a Christians-only continent and will cast doubts on efforts to bridge the gaps between the two sides.”...
Why is no one complaining that Saudi Arabia is a Muslims-only country? Or that Christians suffer discrimination of one kind or another in every other Muslim country on the planet today?
Hottinger opined that any attempt to strip Turkey of its Islamic identity is doomed, saying even Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, the founder of the secular republic in Turkey failed to do this.“In the first democratic elections according to western standards, the Turkish people elected Islamists,” he said.
Further highlighting his point, Hottinger cited failed attempts by the communist rule to strip Muslims in Central Asian republics of their Islamic identity.
“During my visits to Central Asian republics after gaining independence following the collapse of the Communist rule, every body I met was keen on reaffirming his Islamic identity,” he recalled.
Quite so. And to see that fact in an unalloyed positive light is to gloss over huge amounts of evidence of jihadist activity related to that reaffirmation.
Posted by Robert at June 27, 2005 8:44 AM
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Quisling.
Posted by: Paolo![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at June 27, 2005 9:18 AM
50 years in the ME!
How dare you argue with such a blast from authority?
He is a Swiss. Was he Swiss? Is he now a Swish?
Goatf*#@s of the world unite!
Posted by: Terminator at June 27, 2005 9:51 AM
..."the Swiss expert said that Islam is a melting pot of different ethnic and cultural backgrounds" proclaims the learned journalist. Tell that one to the millions of black Africans who have been and continue to be enslaved by Arab Muslims. I recently listened to a presentation by the author, Gerald Possner, who has written about the long, unhealthy relationship between the Saudis and the US. He told the story of prominent Saudis visiting New York City in the early 1960's with their black slaves. A great uproar ensued and President Kennedy personally asked the Saudis to abolish slavery, which they "officially" did in the mid-1960's. Now, their slaves (guest workers) come mainly from Asia, where according to Mr. Hottinger, no Western textbook explains the rapid rise of Islam in Asia. So, is Mr. Hottinger, the "all Islam is wonderful" journalist, a Muslim convert or was he just a sympathetic reporter for 50 years who covered-up the dark side of Islam whenever it got in the way of his editorized reporting?
Posted by: maryrose at June 27, 2005 9:59 AM
Sadly enough, that "expert" is still representing kind of mainstream thinking in Western media, academia etc. The best way to argue with these people is to confront them with the symmetry questions: if Islam is so tolerant and the West so bad, why are there no non-Muslim rights in Islamic countries that correspond to Muslims' equal+ rights in the West? If Islam is the bastion of tolerance and diversity, as I keep hearing, day after day after day, ad nauseam, then why on earth can I, a sane adult healthy human person with no visible handicap (unless being female is considered a handicap), not enter Saudi Arabia, the holiest of the Kingdoms of tolerance, without the escort of a male guardian, and without covering my head, considered, in Islam, unclean and indecent if exposed publicly, with a black cloth?
Posted by: rahel at June 27, 2005 10:01 AM
“No textbook in the West explains how Islam rapidly grew in Asia, which is home to the majority of Muslims worldwide,” Hottinger said.
Well, how did Islam "grow rapidly in Asia"? How, and why, and when, did many Hindus become Muslims? How many Hindus were killed by Muslims during the period of Muslim rule? What happened to tens of millions of those Hndus (they were murdered) and tens of thousands of temples -- does Hottinger know?
And what about Sassanid Persia, and the religion of Zoroastrianism? What constraints were imposed on Zoroastrians that led to their steady decline? Has Hottinger read anything about this? Has he come across the work of Mary Boyce, both a historian and someone who lived, in recent decades, with the handful of Zoroastrians who managed to stay alive and remain in Iran (others went to tolerant Hindustan, and are known as Parsees)?
What happened to the Buddhists of India, and of Afghanistan, under Muslim rule, and what happened to their artifacts and libraries?
Hottinger was once a correspondent not without value, which makes one wonder if a certain kind of senility has set in, or if he was never quite so acute to begin with, or if the influence, personal and professional, of Arab and Muslim friends (a real hazard, especially if those friends are lavish in their hospitality and seeming empathy, and anguished expressions of dismay and implied requests that sympathetic Westerners come to their defense -- even at the expense of historical truth). In other words, he is not a complete idiot, or confirmed anti-Israel reporter who avoids Islam, or fails even to understand that Islam matters -- as H. D. S. Greenway (he of the bowtie, and the Chinese vases, and the different car driven to Morrissey Boulevard from Needham every day), and Chris Hedge (he of the "Israelis kill Palestinians for sport" observation) or the Fisks and the Orla Guerlins and the rest of them).
No, Hottinger is a bit more substantial than that. But he has not studied a good many of the scholars of Islam whose works have been buried, or ignored for nearly the last 50 or so years, and he has not been immune to the influence of every kind of apologist or semi-apologist, deliberate or ignorant, for Islam. One wonders what he would make of Levi-Provencal, of Edmond Fagnan, of Antoine Fattal (does he think, as Bernard Lewis preposterously said at Brandeis two years ago, that "dhimmitude" is a fiction, as Lewis said with studied (and false) evenhandedness, just as much as the "myth of an Andalucia" depicted as some kind of tolerant, multicultural paradise was entirely fiction) David Margoliouth, Snouck Hurgronje, W. R. W. Gairdner, Sir William Muir, Charles-Emmanuel Dufourcq, Arthur Jeffery, Tor Andrae, Bat Ye'or, and a hundred others, English, German, American, French, Italian, Spanish, Bulgarian, Serbian, Armenian, Russian, Polish -- careful students of the texts of Islam, the reception and understanding of those texts, the influence of those texts, the history of Muslim conquest, the history of post-conquest subjugation of non-Muslim peoples -- Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and other smaller sects and groups -- a history that, in time and space, is remarkably similar and, therefore, suggests that the teachings of Islam, as worked out in practice, no matter where, and no matter when, inevitably tend to the same grim results.
As far as Hottinger's reference to his "trips to Central Asia," he must be talking about Uzbekistan (where sufferers from Weiss-Schwartz Syndrome are warmly welcomed) and Tadjikistan, but cannot be talking about the most important, largest, and richest country of the five stans, Kazakhstan. Just how much time has he spent in Almaty, Astana, or boomtown Atyrau? In Kazakhstan, the place to which Stalin exiled some of the most talented Russians, and where 50% of the country is non-Muslim (Russians, Belorussians, Jews, Baltic Germans, even a colony of Koreans and now the Chinese who come across the border and marry local girls, and aim to stay), those who, if asked to identify themselves, answer "Muslim" mean almost nothing by that. They almost all deplore the activities of "Muslims" elsewhere, and almost all can unself-consciously describe themselves as atheists. Hottinger is badly informed, or perhpas is determined to badly inform us.
For Hottinger to confusedly admit that Kemalism did not permanently secularize -- i.e., constrain the political and social power of Islam -- Turkey, but that, at the same time, the E.U. should not keep this apparently permanently Muslim (i.e., not secularized) Turkey out of the E.U., shows that Hottinger does not see a contradiction between the beliefs of Islam, the political and social arrangements and understandings of Islam, and the beliefs of the advanced Western democracies. Islam as a totalitarian system, that presumes to regulate every area of life and to offer a complete explanation of everything, that favors despotism because it does not, and cannot permit, the idea that political legitimacy flows from the will of the people (rather than from what is contained in Islam itself, in what has been derived from Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira over the centuries by Muslim scholars, and which the will of the people may not ever contradict).
Perhaps Hottinger, like some in this country, think he can avoid considering the history of Muslim conquest, and subjugation, of non-Muslims outside the West -- Hindus, Buddhists, and so on -- so as to continue to appeal to a Western sense of guilt, or the idea that it is we who have, by our actions, caused Muslism to dislike us.
This is one more example of the "Why Do They Hate Us" school of thought which carefully refrains from noting that 60-70 million Hindus were killed, Zoroastrians exiled or reduced to 150,000, that the Greco-Buddhist civilization of Afghanistan was destroyed. Hottinger does not consider the consequences to mental freedom, to artistic expression, to scientific inquiry, of the spread of Islam.
For Hottinger to forget all the great orientalists and to go back all the way to "early churchmen" (which ones does he have in mind? The brilliant Riccoldo da Montecroce? Which churchmen did not manage to depict Islam correctly, in Hottinger's view? Aside from those who did not analyze Islam at all, or who considered it, as Dante did, a Christian heresy, which serious students of Islam in the West, prior to the last 30-40 years of virtually uninterrupted apologetics and nonsense and covering up of past scholarship, does Hottinger think misstated the nature of Islam?
And does he include Indian scholars such as Jahundath Sarkar and K. S. Lal, or are they simply prejudiced Hindus (and of course, "supporters of the caste system and fascistic Hindutva, etc. etc." -- we have been there before, haven't we?).
In short, this article is not only obviously flawed, but a disgrace, calling into question Arnold Hottinger's long career. Use of that absurd word "Islamophobia." Appeals to the idea that the West has been unfair to Islam, when the mere fact that millions of Muslims have been allowed to move to that West and settle there, and everywhere they have gone, from Scandinavia to France to Australia, have made demands for changes in the societies and by the peoples who have so unwarily welcomed them, and everywhere have exhibited a seemingly inexplicable hostility and disloyalty to the Infidel nation-state that no other set of immigrants, no matter how outwardly non-Western -- Hindus from India, Buddhists from Vietnam, Chinese who are Confucian or Christian or atheists or anyting at all, Bolivian peasants, black Christians from Nigeria or Senegal or the Sudan -- never seem to exhibit. What is it that explains the different behavior of Muslims, who refuse in French schools to permit discussion of World War II
Hottinger's performance is a disgrace, from first to last. This is someone who has forgotten what the West is, what it achieved, and how everything can be lost. His sympathies are entirely with the Muslims, with the Turks who simply "must" be allowed into the E.U. (what is this -- admission to the E.U. as part of self-esteem studies, a party favor, something to be distributed like confetti after an Italian wedding? What?).
How he arrived at this point, what ignorance of which we were heretofore unaware, or what lapses in thinking, or what failure to understand Islam as the real scholars of Islam have unanimously understood it (the scholars from 1880-1960, before the Arab money, and the Muslims themselves, and of course their non-Muslim apologists, more or less seized control of the academic centers for the "study" of Islam and of Arabs -- with a few old-fashioned holdouts here and there) have led to this foolish and disgusting performance?
Posted by: Hugh at June 27, 2005 10:07 AM
Congratulations Arnold Hottinger. You are now on the SuperDhimmi list. Honorable mention for outstanding taquiyya goes without saying.
And the stupid ignorant dhimmis eat it up. Hey dhimmis, crack some books critical of Islam before you buy this lopsided and sbsurd view.
Posted by: reset at June 27, 2005 10:10 AM
Meanwhile, back in Eurabia, the largest cities are rapidly becoming a 'them vs us' battleground. Rise up you poor oppressed and oh so wronged Muslims. Your day has arrived. Arnold is here to help you.
Posted by: reset at June 27, 2005 10:44 AM
Hugh:
Thanks for another eloquent post. Earlier this year I heard Daniel Pipes speak. During the question period Dr. Pipes was asked about the usefulness of learning about Islam by studying the Koran. He replied that studying the Koran was a very difficult undertaking requiring years of research; he instead suggested a more fruitful approach is to study the history of Islam. As you noted in your post, this is a sorry history of jihad, cultural and religious subjugation/persecution and murderous conquest.
My response to Mr. Hottinger is straightforward, just the facts sir, just the facts. That’s all we need to know.
at June 27, 2005 10:48 AM
So much self-hatred... this makes me sick to the stomach. What's next? "I'm sorry for having been born a kaffir" ? Disgusting.
Posted by: alex221166 at June 27, 2005 11:40 AM
The quotations in the IslamOnline article are damning, but the source does remain IslamOnline. There are little baised spins by the author, like the placement of the veiled appeals to authority, '50 years in the Middle East' and 'fluent in Arabic'; at this seminar Hottinger must have spouted views something like this, but I wonder if the quotations in this article are completely accurate. Perhaps Hottinger would like to clarify that he really said these things attributed to him by the folks who bring us the Fatwa Bank.
Slight inaccuracies, of course, would not in any way diminish the force of the points made here by Spencer and Fitzgerald.
Posted by: JTF at June 27, 2005 11:42 AM
Mr Hottinger seems to want to set us straight on the growth of Islam in Asia. Does he have a view on current developments in Sudan?
“We saw five Arab men who came to us and asked where our husbands were. Then they told us that we should have sex with them. We said no. So they beat and raped us. After they abused us, the told us that now we would have Arab babies; and if they would find any Fur [one of the non-Arab or African tribal groups of Darfur], they would rape them again to change the colour of their children.’ (Three women, 25, 30 and 40, October 2004, West Darfur)” (page 1)
Gingerich and Leaning also report on the racial/ethnic animus in the accounts of rape coming from non-Arab or African women, accounts that make clear the genocidal nature of these assaults:
“It is widely reported that during the attacks, the Janjaweed often berated the women, calling them slaves, telling them that they would now bear a ‘free child,’ and asserting that they (the perpetrators) are wiping out the non-Arabs.” (page 15)
at June 27, 2005 12:10 PM
How does one misunderstand a semtex suicide vest, skinned with a sheet of ball-bearings, that explodes and kills you and your family?
Oops! I'm sorry I died? If I had understood Islam better, the shrapnel would have missed me?
The treason of the intellectuals- redux.
Posted by: BigSleep at June 27, 2005 12:20 PM
Study the history of Islam. Study the history of nations, cultures, civilizations that fall victim to Islam. Study news reports, history's first draft, to observe how present-day nations and cultures are suffering when confronted by the realities living with and among Muslims that have move in and are putting pressure on the indigenous population or that are scheming and threatening to invade from the country next door.
Study the Koran, Sira, and ahadiths tell us why they do it. It is important to know that these deprecations will never end by Islam has an insatiable appetite for conquest. People are victimized when they understand that temporary stops, Hudna, are only temporary. The struggle will go one interminably until Islam wins or is removed from this earth forever.
Posted by: epg at June 27, 2005 12:39 PM
Hugh,
Another eminent Western scholar of Islam -- whose brain seems to have major lobotomy lacunae concerning his academic speciality -- to add to your list: Charles Butterworth.
Posted by: metaxy at June 27, 2005 1:15 PM
“It will also prove that Europe is a Christians-only continent and will cast doubts on efforts to bridge the gaps between the two sides.”
This is such an idiotic thing to say. Most Europeans left Christianity for secularism a long time ago, and the moslems have infested the Euro landscape like cockroaches over the past 20 years, reproducing at remarkable speed and creeping dhimmitude into the indiginous, aging European population's conciousness.
The gaps between moslems and infadels is never going to be "bridgable". Moslems are not seeking equality with other faiths and cultures, they are seeking to dominate and destroy all other faiths and cultures throughout the world. This man is either disingenuous or just another PC leftist fool (or both) for making asinine statements like these.
Either way, he is as Paolo so concisely put it, a quisling. (BTW, great word choice, Paolo).
-MZ
at June 27, 2005 1:39 PM
"Another eminent Western scholar of Islam -- whose brain seems to have major lobotomy lacunae concerning his academic speciality -- to add to your list: Charles Butterworth."
--- from a posting above
I'm looking forward,with dread, to reading him. Think I'll take a proleptic aspirin, or six. And not the baby kind, the 81 mg., either.
During the plague years, or centuries, many in Europe joined in a frenzied dance of death, the so-called St. Vitus's Dance. A goodly portion of the Infidel populations, as they dimly begin to discern the menace of Islam, seem determined, in frenzied fashion, to do everything but confront it calmly, rationally, and with imagination.
If Hottinger and company are representative, many people want to enter the St. Vitus's Dance Contest. Not me. I think I'll sit that number out.
at June 27, 2005 3:33 PM
Hugh-
Modern biologically-based scholarship has hypothesized that the St. Vitus 'dancing mania' that swept Europe off and on for half a millenium, may have been related to a more acute, often fatal illness "St. Anthony's Fire", both caused by forms of ergot poisoning (from rye mold, synthesized in the 1940's into lysergic acid diethylamide- L.S.D.-25). With the chemically-induced mass-hysteria's 'dancers' sympathetically & superstitiously joined in on their 'tarantella' by repressed and impressionable neighbors.
So, is Islam of form of psychotropic poisoning?
And, because dancing is forbidden, it erupts in more savage forms of expression when the subconscious mind of the followers' are tapped?
Jihadists. Suicide bombers. Beheaders.
Instead of tap-dancing, harmless fools?
Worth a term paper at Columbia.
Or Berekely.
Or Cairo U.
Posted by: BigSleep at June 27, 2005 4:17 PM
Charles Butterworth - centre for the study of Islam & Democracy? I think the orgs. title tells all, but wait there's more - its president Radwan A. Masmoudi has "written and published several papers on the topics of democracy, diversity, human rights, and tolerance in Islam."
Nuff said.
JV
at June 27, 2005 5:02 PM
Madzionist: This is such an idiotic thing to say. Most Europeans left Christianity for secularism a long time ago, and the moslems have infested the Euro landscape like cockroaches over the past 20 years, reproducing at remarkable speed and creeping dhimmitude into the indiginous, aging European population's conciousness.
Europe needs 'guest workers'. So does the US, but the whole illegal immigration mess clouds the issue. Europe would do better to recruit guest workers from Central and South America, but choses to do it from the Middle East and North Africa.
Even if Europe does nothing, the jihadist idiots are unwilling to wait for what natural increase would take care of, but will instead step up terrorist incidents, which will eventually provoke a 'final solution' response.
As it is, the Dutch and French are near the end of their patience.
Posted by: Loxias at June 27, 2005 6:10 PM
Big Sleep:
"How does one misunderstand a semtex suicide vest, skinned with a sheet of ball-bearings, that explodes and kills you and your family?
Oops! I'm sorry I died? If I had understood Islam better, the shrapnel would have missed me?"
Big S: Why do you refuse to submit to Allah? Don't you wanna get those 72 hooris and the 24 boys, who are just like pearls?
Why would you refuse to accept the blessings of Allah...
Anyway: Love your colorful writing style!
Posted by: Terminator at June 27, 2005 6:27 PM
Swiss have taken neitrality to a nest extent.
BTW, Hugh since u mention Parsees, they r a dying community in India too. Not becoz Hindus r intolerent towards them but since they marrying strictly within their own its hard to find a partner of community numbering 100000 dispered as droplets in ocean in 1.05 billion strong India. Freddie Mercury of Queens was perhaps the most famous Parsee.
This self-hatred is also evident in India. Where it is fashionable to talk about "secularism" (read minoritism) just to make oneself look good. Corrupt criminals like Lalo Prasad come to power thru their "Secular" agenda. Even the Indian judiciary isnt exempt. While movies highly critical of Hindutva and overtly Muslim such as "Final Soluctions","Gujarat: Laboratory of Hindu Rashtra", "Kya Hum Gulaam Rahenge" (Will we stay as slaves) are freely screened. Movies like "Black Friday" which chronicles they real events that took place on 12th March 1993 Bombay blasts in which "civilised" Indian Muslims butchered 500 of their infidel compatriots are gagged. Check out this website:
www.countercurrents.org
P.S You may think its a Pakistani site! No its run my Indian leftists and Chinese cronies.
Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at June 27, 2005 6:29 PM
Loxias:
"Europe would do better to recruit guest workers from Central and South America, but choses to do it from the Middle East and North Africa."
As it stands Europe is being overrun by Muzzies, not by guestworkers.
What you mean is correct, only that goes back to the sixties and seventies, where the economy was booming the iron curtain didn't allow access to the EU for workers from Poland, Rumania, Yugoslavia, Hungary etc.
These people from the former Eastern block are now the ones working, I mean actually working in western Europe.
For the last 15 years the massive influx of Mohammedans had very little to do with work: The economy is in the doldrums, but the welfare-system still stands and word got around in North-Africa, Turkey and the ME that there is always more to be had.
Mohammedans can be accused of all kinds of things, but they are not guilty of being keen to work. Quite the opposite...
Posted by: Terminator at June 27, 2005 6:39 PM
I got this book in the used bookstore on campus, a collection of news articles and such. It was on India and Southeast Asia. There was an article, which I've seen similar reports again and again, about the declining Parsi population, and the clerics/priests rejecting marriages outside of the community. Since many women, and some men, marry out, the pop. keeps getting smaller, and they don't recognize conversions like the Iranians do.
Last month in the yahoo group "universalreligion" there was a forwarded message about this, and how many Indians and Iranians think this rejection is stupid above all else. All things considered, many Westerners and Central Asians (my word for the Iran-India area) prefer the Irani version of Zartoshtism.
Posted by: Ibn Rushd at June 27, 2005 9:43 PM
Terminator-
Agreed. The guestworkers generally became guest shirkers. Muslo-moochers. Welfare wahhabis.
Why don't the Europeans just do their own damned grunt work?
How tough is it to preserve the fabric of your own society? Is sweeping a street or cutting tulips or harvesting grapes or paving highways or doing high iron work such an insult to the existential anhedonic dilettante?
Why invite in your own bodysnatcher replacements? Who proceed to bleed your continent till it anemically totters, and they then give it a push... in order to sweep up the booty with a snicker?
Meanwhile, the advance column is being fed, clothed, housed, given access to education, and cared for medically by the state.
Pampered vampires.
Coddled by the culture they condemn.
The wisdom of Europe on the wane.
Did Theo Van Gogh die in vain?
Posted by: BigSleep at June 28, 2005 12:44 AM
"Did Theo Van Gogh die in vain?"
Of course he did, Bigsleep, as does every victim of moslem terror. Until islam itself is singled out as the enemy we will never do the victims of islamic crime justice.
-MZ
Posted by: Madzionist at June 28, 2005 8:49 AM
Center for Islam and Democracy? This Butterworth person works for the Center for Islam and Democracy?
Is this not the same organization founded by John L. Esposito, aka Super-Dhimmi Extraordinaire?
It figures.
Anyone who works for/with Esposito is a super-dhimmi by definition. It's a requirement of the job.
Posted by: Suzan at June 28, 2005 11:35 AM
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