It's possible that the alleged rape may be a cover story:

http://direland.typepad.com/direland/2005/07/iran_executes_2.html

Posted by: Interested at July 26, 2005 3:43 PM

This is the same bs as the mentally ill girl who was raped then hung from a lamp post in the town square because she dared to mouth off to the Islamic cleric who was judge, jury and executioner..

I dont not and will believe anything that comes from the Iranian news...

Posted by: jingoist at July 26, 2005 4:57 PM

Gee, that society needs nuclear arms for sure.

Posted by: TooBad at July 26, 2005 5:04 PM

test- what's with this "share email" stuff on login? If you choose no, you can't login. Then why the choice?

Posted by: Caroline at July 26, 2005 5:55 PM

Seems apropos to link to this article:

Psychoanalytic Roots of Terrorism

"Shoebat confirmed the widespread sexual abuse of both boys and girls in Palestinian society. "It is a strange society. Homosexuality is forbidden but if you're the penetrator, not the penetrated, it's okay." He is describing prison sexuality. "If you're a teenage boy with no hair on your legs other boys your age will pinch your butt and tease you. Once, I saw a class of clothed teenage boys sexualize their gymnastics exercizes. And once, on a hiking trip, I saw a line of shepherd boys waiting for their turn to sodomize a five year old boy. It was unbelievable." Shoebat's father also told him stories about starving Arab men who would barter sex for meat from Iraqi soldiers. According to Shoebat, teenage boys prey upon younger children; older male relatives prey upon pre-adolescent and adolescent boys and girls. They do not have intercourse with the girls since this would render them un-marriageable and bring shame upon their families. I heard many stories in both Afghanistan and Iran about the male preference for anal sex, even within marriage, either as a form of birth control or as a preferred homosexual practice."

Plus there's that whole thing in the afterlife about all the little boys. I'm not buying this story. Surely the problem can't be "lack of consent". What does "consent" have to do with an authoritarian society that recognizes only submission? Besides, I thought the Iranian mullahs themselves were pretty notorious with regards to their pederasty?

Posted by: Caroline at July 26, 2005 6:07 PM

Why did you post this? It does not have much to do with Jihad or Dhimmi stuff. We used to do hand out the same punishments in Christian lands not too long ago. Rape for most of recorded history has been a capital crime. What point are you trying to make? You would do better to post about how the Saudis excute the victims of rape for the crime of adultery.

Posted by: have_mercy at July 26, 2005 11:00 PM

Yes in the land of Islam should be by called Sodomyville or Analberg instead of the Umma. It is a well know Arab axiom: "Males are for pleasure and women are for babies." The whole Umma is a one big jailhouse gay bangaro.

Posted by: have_mercy at July 26, 2005 11:07 PM

Yes, the lands of Islam should be called Sodomyville or Analberg instead of the Umma. A well know Arab axiom: "Males are for pleasure and women are for babies." The whole Umma is one big jail house gay bangaro.

Posted by: have_mercy at July 26, 2005 11:10 PM

I know an female international lawyer who once told the Jordanian consul in the US: "Everyone knows that you Arabs will step over three good women to get to one good boy."

I almost choked on my soup. But he AGREED. Damn, and I thought he was just being diplomatic!!

Posted by: texan at July 27, 2005 2:43 AM

Ancient Afghan song - The Wounded heart

There's a boy across the river with a bottom like a peach.
But, alas, I cannot swim.

I cannot find out the rest of the words. The best I could find on the net was the transcript of a speech by a Canadian officer to his troops in Afghanistan where he quoted those lines (which are well known) and wrying said that the interpreter would not tell him the rest.
The tune was picked up by the British army in the 19th century and became a standard military march called Zachmi Dil. Which is irrelevant to this thread, of course.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at July 27, 2005 3:19 AM

"We used to do hand out the same punishments in Christian lands not too long ago."

King: Indeed this is true and often forgotten when the unilateral feeding frenzy gets started on this site. In fact, many homosexuals still suffer the same humiliation and even violence in places like the UK, US, and other "civilized" societies that wear their Christianity on their sleeves. There are even jokes within this thread that are anti-gay.

Not knowing the facts, it appears that these boys were hanged for rape. I oppose the death penalty, let alone publicly, but if the law in Iran is hanging for rape...

Posted by: KingTolerance at July 27, 2005 8:08 AM

Kinker-bell:

"I oppose the death penalty, let alone publicly, but if the law in Iran is hanging for rape..."

Well, you wouldn't argue with Sharia law now, would you?

Glad you have no argument so we don't need to give you a public flogging. (I for one would not oppose)

But as long as you post here you don't plant any bombs...

Posted by: Terminator at July 27, 2005 8:37 AM

Hardly unilateral. There are still numbskulls who don't or can't read to add flavour to the threads, though it appears mostly to be the flavour of rotten cabbage.

"We used to do hand out the same punishments in Christian lands not too long ago."

Correct.

And now we don't.

Correct.

And nowhere, despite JackTolerance's claims to the contrary, are homosexual hung for homosexuality anywhere in the free world.

Correct.

King: "Not knowing the facts"

Correct.

King: "it appears that these boys were hanged for rape."

Incorrect.

Since torture is used to obtain confessions in muslim nations such as Iran, we can make no conclusions whatsoever about their guilt or innocence.

Correct.

Imam Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at July 27, 2005 8:52 AM

Of course, had the victim been female, the outcome would have been much different: A) Marry one of the rapists to avoid dishonoring her family or B.) Be sentenced to death for committing fornication. The guys would walk, of course.

Posted by: kafira at July 27, 2005 9:53 AM

Woo Hoo! Look at the "Imam's" sleight of hand as he spins, twists and otherwise conjures up things that ain't there.

Geoff: "And nowhere, despite JackTolerance's claims to the contrary, are homosexual hung for homosexuality anywhere in the free world."

KIng: Homosexuals are beaten, and sometimes killed rather frequently in the "free world" from people who would quickly identify themselves as Christians. Pretnedning this does not happen is mighty dishonest of you. Homosexuals have also suffered extreme religious persecution and execution under the hand of the Bible. It was a matter of policy up until not too terribly loong ago. How quickly we forget, Herr Imam.

Geoff: "Since torture is used to obtain confessions in muslim nations such as Iran, we can make no conclusions whatsoever about their guilt or innocence."

King: Oh, so since you were there, your opinion matters more than mine. I see. What we have here is a mere matter of opinion, mine vs. yours. Neither is right or wrong, we are simply interpreting the situation given the facts presented to us. The difference is, I am not busy making up things to suit my own argument....Sigh.

Posted by: KingTolerance at July 27, 2005 9:58 AM

King:

You missed a rather central point in all of this item, to say the least. While there are Christian homophobes who do perpetrate violence against homosexuals, such acts aren't sanctioned neither by western governments nor by Christian (or Jewish) religious authorities. This story is about state-sanctioned activities in the Muslim theocracy of Iran.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at July 27, 2005 1:11 PM

Waterlilly: "While there are Christian homophobes who do perpetrate violence against homosexuals, such acts aren't sanctioned neither by western governments nor by Christian (or Jewish) religious authorities."

King: No, I got the central point, Waterlilly.

For your personal enrichment from Bible.org:

"Homosexuality is an illicit lust forbidden by God. He said to His people Israel, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13). In these passages homosexuality is condemned as a prime example of sin, a sexual perversion. The Christian can neither alter God's viewpoint nor depart from it."

History (some not too distant) has shown us the merciless treatment of homosexuals, both suspected and known, by Christians. Homosexuals have been beaten, tortured, executed, excommunicated, etc. based on the passage above. This passage is still taught in many conservative and radical Christian churches today all over the world. Ignoring this while chastizing Islam is being a hypocrite as well as being intellecutally dishonest. But you're neither, right??

I've never defended Islam's treatment of homosexuals and I have gone on record, numerous times, to state that I am a separation of church(mosque) and state purist. I am active in this cause which is one of the reasons why I am attracted to this topic to begin with.

Such a disappointment you turned out to be....

Posted by: KingTolerance at July 27, 2005 1:32 PM

King:

I don't give a crap about what Bible.org says. It ain't what the Pope exhorts Catholics to do, nor the Archbishop of Canterbury, nor Tony Blair, nor George Bush or any other recognized leader of any western government or faith. It is what the Ayatolas of Iran are not only saying, but doing.

Makes a difference.

Sorry to disappoint you by insisting on staying on point.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at July 27, 2005 1:51 PM

Waterlilly: "It is what the Ayatolas of Iran are not only saying, but doing."

King: Great - then you've recorded your opinion about the Ayatolas in Iran! Well done, the world is a better place now that Waterlilly has had her say and told the King a thing or two about staying on point.

Now, about that double standard that you keep dancing around. You have not made that go away thus far. Any other bobbing and weaving or will you admit that Christianity has and does persecute gays based on Hebrew-based text? Moreover, Christian governments in the not to distant past did sanction the punishment, torture and execution of hunam beings based on their sexual orientation. Gay rights are still struggling due to this Christian influence.

Try being an openly gay man in the Vatican and see how long you are allowed to remain.

Try being an openly gay person in the conservative Christian sections of the US and see how long you last.

Posted by: KingTolerance at July 27, 2005 2:05 PM

Try being an openly gay man in the Vatican and see how long you are allowed to remain.
Try being an openly gay person in the conservative Christian sections of the US and see how long you last.

The fact remains that you would not be killed or tortured as a matter of policy in either place.

Posted by: f.g. at July 27, 2005 2:14 PM

F.G.: thanks. We know who does the bobbing and weaving (aka bad moral equivalencing) around here. That's why KT finds me so particularly disappointing among all the posters on this site.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at July 27, 2005 3:05 PM

Water: "That's why KT finds me so particularly disappointing among all the posters on this site."

King: No, I find you so disappointing since you are a Jew who subscribes to the same sort of wholesale religious blame-game shit the nazis employed. The Nazis said "All Jews were to blame for the issues of the time." You say similar things and refuse to look unto yourself and your ilk to find some of the blame, whatever it may be. I was brought up in a different environment and still managed to stay true to my cultural Jewish roots while being careful to navigate the lines of bigotry and religioyus tolerance. I'll always be superior because of it. What you continue to call bad moral equivalencing, I call the other side of the story. The double standard lives on....

Posted by: KingTolerance at July 27, 2005 3:17 PM

King:

The bullshitter around here is you. Calling a spade a spade may not be "nice" but sometimes it needs to be said because too often that is what it takes to arouse change.

There are secularized Muslims like Ibn Warraq and progressive Muslims like Irshad Manji who would dismiss you and others like you as useful idiots for the jihaddists and nothing more.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at July 27, 2005 5:05 PM

Waterlilly: "The bullshitter around here is you."

King: Sticks and stones, not to mention a mere opinion.

Waterlilly: "Calling a spade a spade may not be "nice" but sometimes it needs to be said because too often that is what it takes to arouse change."

King: Is this your wishy-washy defence? Was Hitler calling a spade a spade? Aside of quid pro quo bickering with me, what, if anything, do you do in your community to implement a change for the better?
If you are expecting me to accept this you really are a disappointment!

Before you ask, I do the following:

1. I attend a bi-weekly meeting to discuss the separation of church and state.

2. Through this, I've made several contacts within the Muslim community in my city and have gained the ability to really see the separate, intricate issues that have helped create the dangerous radicals.

Waterlilly: "There are secularized Muslims like Ibn Warraq and progressive Muslims like Irshad Manji who would dismiss you and others like you as useful idiots for the jihaddists and nothing more."

King: Great, and I'd love to have a friendly debate with them to find out what makes them tick. I'd hold a hell of a lot more respect for someone who actually gets it than some unilateral, ad hominem arguer who has a pseudo understanding of Islam and its radical fringe groups.

Posted by: KingTolerance at July 27, 2005 5:49 PM

Kingie-Wingie.

KT: "Homosexuals are beaten, and sometimes killed rather frequently in the "free world" from people who would quickly identify themselves as Christians...How quickly we forget, Herr Imam."

Please, don't use my islamonazi title here. Anyway, could you indicate where it is presently legal in the West to beat or kill others for homosexuality? I'd ask a gay fellow I know, but I think he'd laugh at the comparison.

Geoff: "Since torture is used to obtain confessions in muslim nations such as Iran, we can make no conclusions whatsoever about their guilt or innocence."

King: "Oh, so since you were there, your opinion matters more than mine. I see. What we have here is a mere matter of opinion, mine vs. yours. Neither is right or wrong, we are simply interpreting the situation given the facts presented to us."

And it's a fact that torture is used to extract confessions in islamic countries. That's not opinion. Poison fruit springs from a poison tree, Jackie. I knows I ain't got them booksmarts like you (on'y fawr degrees under muh belt!), but yuh git mah meanin?

Sad.

Even the gay organization mentioned was certain it was torture. Fuck, maybe they don't count either in your book.

Then again, you're probably pretty quick to scream about possible torture at Gitmo. Or maybe you're pissed because you have to PAY to wear women's used panties. Whatever.

Nice link for bible.org. Too bad that one didn't say: "...An' yuh BERN em! A slow fare's best, I lak t' use charcoal, othern's'll go fer hickory."

But a good try.

The point is simple, so simple that even you might understand it.

In islamic states, and in islamic law, it is legal (and, in fact, obligatory) to kill homosexuals.

In Christian states, and in Christian legal systems, it is not. ("Turn the other cheek", "thou shalt not commit murder" may ring some bells for you here.)

Thank'ee.

"I'd hold a hell of a lot more respect for someone who actually gets it than some unilateral, ad hominem arguer who has a pseudo understanding of Islam and its radical fringe groups."

Now, don't be too hard on yourself. You simply don't know islam yet. Tell me, do any of your contacts from 2 attend 1? It strikes me as surprising there'd be an islamic drive to SEPARATE church and state.

Lay off the insults to others, and bring your BS, if it be truthful.

Imam Geoff

PS: No Southerners were harmed in the making of this post. God, how I love your accents. Nice peeps. God bless "yers".

Posted by: Geoff at July 28, 2005 2:03 AM

I might add: I said no conclusion about their guilt was possible, given knowledge about Iranian legal systems.

You said they were guilty.

Who's offering baseless conclusions NOW, punk?

LMAO

Geoff

Posted by: Geoff at July 28, 2005 2:04 AM

It's interesting reading about the islamic fascination with anal sex.

I have a personal story to tell about it.

many years ago (when I was younger and more attractive) I "Pulled" a rather attractive totty at a london nightclub.
Everything a guy could want, fishnet stocking, miniskirt, low cut revealing blouse.
after a 10 (or was it 5 ?) minute chat she asked the question "would you like to show me your place ?"
Well how could i refuse, it would have been immoral to decline.
Any way on the way home she told me all about herself. A nice pakistani moslem girl, religious family here in Londinium to study
she's not easy, would I convert for her (honest she did ask that)
Anyway the scene shifts to the bedroom, she lays on the bed and announces to me "I don't do anal"
if I had had a pint of Kronnenburg 1664 I would have dropped it, impossible under normal situations.

For years this worried me. Did i look like the sort of guy who was into anal, was that the impression i gave nice moslem girls ?
Any way a couple of years ago I found out the answer.
The reason she had asked the question was simple. In islamic countries because the sexes are segragated gay sex is common in oreder to relieve
sexual frustration. men expect anal sex from their wives.
At last I was free from my burden.

The story some might think is silly, but it does indicate the hypocracy of islam and moslems.
It also indicates what we have to lose, that ost natural desire to behave as nature intended, not in an animalistic way but just to mingle with the opposite sex (or the same if that way inclined)

many years ago I read "The Scramble for Africa" I forget the name of the author but I do remember that while trying to stamp out the arab slave trade the British anti slavers used to refer to sodomy as "the arab disease".

Incidently the "nice moslem girl" used to wear a full veil with just the eye slits.

The amount of "nice moslem girls" who have virginity restoration operations should be studied, I am sure the results would be revealing.
imagining experiencing freedom while studying in the west and then having to go back to a medievel islamic state.
How sad.

islam quite honestly is a pain in the ass

Posted by: apostate_islam at July 28, 2005 7:51 AM

I'm sorry, but Iran has shown at least a minimal standard of social health--like Cuba, where _Marracon_ is still the worst thing you can call a man. At least in this case it was the offenders rather than the offended who got the punishment. Maybe something other than hanging would've been in order for the first offense, but I, for one, would want the neck or balls of someone who violated my 13-year-old son. I would certainly not see "tolerance" as a virtue in such a case.

It seems to me that not too long ago, the MSM was calling for the blood of the whole American Catholic hierarchy because of what some priests did to some teenaged boys (and I believe that both the cover-up and original deeds were very, very wrong). But, if "gay rights" are soooooooooooooooooo precious and deserving of the respect and affirmation of our laws and social mores (even to the point of jailing for "hate crimes" anyone who dares remind the world that God's word calls sodomy a sin), why the outrage at what the pervert priests did, or the snide titterings on this thread at the self-righteous Afghan Taliban fighters who moan like mooncalves over the moons of a young boy? Could it be, in our hearts of hearts, most of us know that homosexuality is indeed disgusitng?

No, if the West is going to be worth saving, it needs to drive homosexuality back into the closet, or deeper, where it belongs. The homosexual subculture is a mark of social decay, not of a broad-minded progressive tolerance (unless progress is getting to the grave more quickly than the next guy).

Posted by: Kepha at July 28, 2005 10:04 AM