Sounds like triumphalist puff to me. Where did he pull this number from?

Muslim Albanians in the Republic of Macedonia have been claiming for years that they are 40% of the population, despite the fact that no national census has ever recorded their number higher than 25%. (Their incessant claims even spurred a special census overseen by the "international community" which - to their disappointment - simply confirmed the accuracy of the national government's figures.)

We're going to see a lot more Muslims making noise about their "growing numbers" in the coming years. It is something they are keenly aware of, of course - indeed, many of them consider demography a longterm strategic weapon. So we'll need to be ready to battle their triumphalist claims with facts and logic, to prevent them from hoodwinking our well-meaning but ideologically blinkered liberal countrymen.

Posted by: spect8or at August 7, 2005 9:23 AM

"They are indigenous residents of our country, not migrants or immigrants, and have been living here from time immemorial,"

Again the I've been here longer than you have argument. This is a cleaver ploy for them, just like they've been everywhere else longer than other people and the land was most likely taken from them unjustly too.

Posted by: Laurel at August 7, 2005 10:11 AM

Since the Soviet collapse in 1991, Evangelical Christians have made inroads among some of the traditionally Muslim peoples of the Caucasus. However, since the Russian Federation wants to keep out any religion that wasn't in place in 1917, this movement has slowed.

A problem with much of the reporting on the numbers of Muslims in former or present Communist states or those where "Muslims" are largely recent immigrants is that the counted noses go by ethnic/national origins--i.e., an Algerian Kabyle in France, a Hui or Uighur in China, or a Tatar (provided he doesn't call himself a Kryashin) or Chechen in Russia "has to be" a Muslim. In fact, there's been a Los vom Islam and an aggressive Christian outreach going on in Western Europe and the Americas among historically Muslim groups living in those regions. There are also secularizing movements afoot as well.

The Mufti, however, is correct in that birth rates among traditionally Muslim ethnic groups ("nationalities" in Stalinist parlance) are higher than among Slavic Great Russians and other formerly Christian or Jewish ethnicities in Russia. But if this actually reflects the number of practicing Muslims of any degree of fervency is quite another problem.

Posted by: Kepha at August 7, 2005 10:38 AM

There is a slightly sinister overtone to the Mufti's telling a Russian audience that Muslims have been there "from time immemorial". Russians will know that their country was overran and colonized for centuries by Mongols who soon became Muslims, and that it had to struggle long and bitterly to recover its independence and its Christian identity. The Mufti's words allude to the Russian Dark Age of Mongol overlordship.

Posted by: Paolo at August 7, 2005 3:38 PM

What is the breakdown of Muslim populations. All you ever hear is large, inflated numbers. How many are children, generated from hyperbreeding, how many are converts, how many are educated enough to read or write, how many men, how many women? How many live in citys, how many live in jungles or deserts, how many own a pair of shoes?
How many have the foggiest idea whats going on in the world, besides the self serving information spoon fed at the mosques?
I dont know if this is actually important, but it might be mildly interesting...

Posted by: duh_swami at August 7, 2005 4:20 PM

Ah yes, another attempt at polishing a turd. These numbers are likely inflated, based more on nationality than actual personal belief. Duh_swami brings up a valid point. Again without census takers going in and doing an in depth survey going door to door (or hut to hut if you prefer) there is no clear way of telling. All I know is that when Christian missionaries are allowed to do their work unhindered (although there is ALWAYS gov't interference of some kind) they succeed with spectacular results (Hello Kepha!). Which is probably why this particular mufti is saying these things. Islam CANNOT admit retreat anywhere at anytime or the grand charade comes crashing down. A curious statement this mufti makes, but no-one it appears to have a solid grip of what is REALLY happening on the ground. BTW Evanew, the church is rapidly expanding in China with the subsequent persecution that follows. More to come, that much is certain.

Posted by: Johnny Cash at August 8, 2005 7:27 PM