"The motive behind the destruction is the Wahhabists' fanatical fear that places of historical and religious interest could give rise to idolatry or polytheism, the worship of multiple and potentially equal gods.."

This fear doesn't seem to extend to the old "3rd Holiest Shrine". I guess it's 3rd with a bullet now.

Posted by: AbbaGav at August 7, 2005 12:43 PM

Wonder what Kingky Toleration thinks about that.
Why are not the 100,000,000,000,000, or so, muslims he brags about, doing something about it? Would they lay down in front of the dozers to stop the destruction? I'm not in favor of wrecking antiquities, but muslims seem to have no trouble doing that...Those who advocate nuking Mecca should rejoice, Wahhabi's are doing it for them, without nukes...Maybe they are just land clearing so they can erect one of those halal beurger palaces...

Posted by: duh_swami at August 7, 2005 1:37 PM

And this is a problem because.......??

They want to destroy their heritage, fine, let them. We need to ensure they don't ensure other people's legacies, like the Bamiyan Buddhas, antiquities in Israel, etc.

There was an article about this at Islamicity.com recently:

http://www.iviews.com/articles/Articles.asp?ref=IV0507-2748

Lots of comments there, both for and against. Here are a few supporting the development:

"Anything we will do in our lives has to conform with the Islamic Teachings, period."

"Preservation of Historical sites" is to me a new innovation."

"As muslims I do not believe we should attach ourselves to historic artifacts."

"I see this author as being ignorant of Islam and have become like the Kuffars in attaching themselves to meaningless objects, rather than solving the problems of Muslims."

Posted by: kelley at August 7, 2005 1:40 PM

The Wahabii religious zealots live in a dysfunctional, backward, superstitious world propped up by oil wealth. The structures and restrictions they place on their slaves are nihilistic, but they do not see this because the oil money allows such a dysfunctional society to exists.

As Islam devolves into a tribal alliances and enemies, they blame the pagan and immoral West, and expedite the murder of all dissenters. Islam is the supreme society, all others must be extinguished. The West looks on perplexed.

A global caliphate - with Arabs on top of course, Islam for all and death for the dissenters - that is as close to paradise the world will ever get for Muslims, and it is worth wiping out all the infidels and pagans to get there. The truth is the glorious caliphate was wildly unstable, violent, repressive and replete with endless assassinations and genocide. The Caliphate, like Islam, is a master-slave relationship. Only the masters, that elite few, had 'the glory', the slaves had the misery.

Is this the 'true' Islam, or just a 'truer', more pure version of Islam? As the Saudis all jump on board their time machine, bought and paid for with oil money, and set the dial to the 7th century, the West looks on in amazement and concern. The West doesn't want to go along for the ride, but doesn't know what to do.

Posted by: pedestrian infidel at August 7, 2005 1:55 PM

These people are unbelievable. They're so afraid that something might emerge to cast doubt on the veracity of Islam, or that its tenuous credibility might collapse with the discovery of genuine historical artifacts that contradict the lies of Islam. People who have no curiosity about their ancestors and history or fear knowledge of them, are frightened iconoclasts who must erase the past to legitimize the present.

OF course, Islam is notorious for iconoclasm; people soon forget their histories when their civilizations and historical archives are decimated by barbaric muslims. When Islam is all one knows, comparisons cannot be made. For all of the hoopla muslims engage in regarding Islam's "holiest" sites, the destruction of ancient artifacts in SA is obviously an attempt to hide something. If they cannot worship idols, what do they consider their rituals around the meteorite? They are pagan rock worshippers at heart.

Posted by: Susanp at August 7, 2005 2:23 PM

I have written about this before. Even I, a kuffar, would like to see Muhammad's birth house preserved as it is a world heritage site and should be protected by UNESCO, not torn down by barbarians.

Posted by: Mentat at August 7, 2005 3:28 PM

Pave away. The grande mosque looks kinda like the Vatican, eh. They should probably tear it down while they are at it. Get back to their roots. Make Mecca and Yathrib look like they did 14 centuries ago. Return to the "pure" Islam.

Turn off all the air conditioners. Park all the Mercedes. Burn all the DVDs and CDs. Destroy the TVs. Toss all the frozen food. Oh wait... they already did that in Talibanistan, Ayatollastan and Pakistan. Maybe they just didn't do it with enough vigour. Harder this time, and with spirit! Where do you think all those jinns come from? From the TV, radio, and from under the hood of the Suburban, dude. They're in there, waiting to pounce on your soul. Waiting, watching. Waiting. One slip up and BAM, off to jahanum you go. Just like that, BAM.

The risk is too great. The ummah knows what to do. Pave it. Pave it thick and hard. Pave it all. There are jinns in the Kaaba. You know what to do.

Posted by: Hulegu Khan at August 7, 2005 3:34 PM

You have a point there Khan. What could be more symbolic of Islam than a parking lot, smooth and black. Nothing there.

Posted by: pedestrian infidel at August 7, 2005 4:20 PM

Khan:

You are so correct in your solution. Everything invented after the 7th century should be taken from them.......that would include profits from the discovery of OIL!

Posted by: rumoret at August 7, 2005 4:42 PM

The Jaws of a Crescent Moon

Islam is to the world of religions what a shark is to the world of fish: a fossilized anachronism that has survived unchanged and unchanging only because of its superior predatory and destructive capacities, attracted to blood and eager to shed more.

But intelligence is not one of the shark's strong points. Place a shark in the same body of water as a dolphin, and the dolphin will always win. We should learn from the dolphin what we ourselves have forgotten: that with the appropriate techniques of animal husbandry, with an effective counterpredator, even so fearsome a plague as the shark can be controlled and perhaps eliminated.

The non-Muslim world should draw the appropriate conclusion from its cetacean friends while it still has a chance to do so. Otherwise, the danger is great that the non-Muslim world will serve as the shark's next meal.

Posted by: Dan at August 7, 2005 9:08 PM

I have to agree with Susanp-

There's something they don't want revealed in all of this obsessive eradication of their history (maybe they're afraid of a more 'original' version of the Koran being dug up, ala the Dead Seas Scrolls, or Nag Hammadi texts, to cast doubt on the supposed "perfect" and "eternal" dogma in their book?

Those who destroy the past have a guilty conscience about something.

(Of course, what is LEFT in the Koran is telling enough of the cruel and vengeful warlord mentality that composed it. Anything earlier than the 'approved version' would only be cruder, and show Mohammad's lust for megalomaniacal vendetta, tyranny and terrorism that much more horribly, nakedly and undeniably.)

Dan-

Good metaphor! Like the way you think.

Judo, not 'fight club'.

Outwit, not out kick.

(They are definitely better mules than we.)

We need to use what we do best: think freely.

(They have the headlock of 'perfection' hobbling them.)

Posted by: BigSleep at August 7, 2005 10:01 PM

And they so much want to destroy the cultural heritage of everyone else as well. A recent example is the destruction of the giant Buddhas by the Taliban.

Posted by: epg at August 7, 2005 10:48 PM

This must be pissing off any muslims who want to preserve their Islamic heritage, and it's not even us who are doing any of the destruction.

Perfect.

Posted by: Voltaire at August 8, 2005 5:29 AM

Way to go boys....
next stop... kabbah

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at August 8, 2005 6:36 AM

Greed and corruption. The Wahabbis, reflecting their nature as Arabs, are ever eager to fleece their disciple slaves who are commanded to journey to Mecca. Build more pilgrim accomodations and tax the disciple slaves. Extort the merchants. Everybody is out to make as much money as possible from the slaves to further the ummah. The slaves won't even notice. What a racket.

Posted by: pedestrian infidel at August 8, 2005 9:23 AM

Wonder how long it is before they start blaming "Zionists", Jews, and the West in general for this!

Posted by: sg5 at August 8, 2005 11:01 AM

Several years ago I read a book about women in the Muslim world. The book mentioned that an Islamic extremist in Egypt advocated the destruction of the pyramids. I do not remember the name of the book. If anybody knows the name of the book or who the Islamic extremist was, please tell me.

Posted by: Christian at August 8, 2005 4:50 PM

Rebecca,
I believe I sent this juicy e-mail to Robert. Glad you picked it up. It's not about me of course, so I don't mind at all if you take the credit. Anyways, thanks for posting this, it was a real eye-opener for me when I read it. Incidentally, I share the same real life initials as you do.

Posted by: Johnny Cash at August 8, 2005 7:07 PM

If they want to destroy their own history, let them. We have to concentrate on preserving our way of life...Now, from the evil that is fundamentalist islam.......lets help protect the millions of innocent non-muslims in the world.If the non-fundamentalists would like they can come and join us?

Posted by: marilyn at August 8, 2005 10:00 PM

Sami Angawi is repelled by the aesthetic affront posed by the Wahhabism of Saudi Arabia. In his own fabulously luxurious creation, his "house" (to which the Infidels will no longer be coming to ooh and aah quite so frequently, and he will be left to the solitary confinement of hideous Saudi Arabia and its brain-damaged subjects), he shows his desire to have his creation express what he thinks of as his own fascinating view of the universe. Perhaps.

But one would be more impressed with him if, in addition to his aesthetic distaste and chagrin, he were to express some kind of ethical recoiling from Wahhabism, and from the view of non-Muslims that is so widely inculcated in Saudi Arabia, and indeed everywhere in dar al-Islam.

Any Muslim can object to the destruction of an Ottoman fort here, or an early Islamic school there. Infidels would like something more: a clear statement of the ethical horror that is Saudi Arabia. But that will not be forthcoming, not in Jeddah, and not in Cambridge, Mass., from the soft-spoken descended-from-the-Prophet Sami Angawi.

Posted by: Hugh at August 8, 2005 11:37 PM

There is quite a bit of irony in the fact that the pilgrimage to Mecca represents a form of idol worship, one of the cardinal sins of Islam. The Black Stone, held in the Kaaba, represents the centre of the Islamic world. Most pilgrims will try desperately to touch and kiss The Stone as they circumambulate the Kaaba. This ritual is probably a legacy of pre-Mohammedan animism.

Some Hindus have suggested from the color and shape of The Black Stone, that it is essentially a Shiva Lingam, perhaps initially worshipped by Hindu traders to Arabia or brought over by Arabs themselves to worship. Either seems possible as the most sacred and oldest Shiva temple in India, Somnath, is located on the West coast of the most Western of India's states, Gujarat, which was and continues to be a major trading partner with the Arab world.

Like Muslims circumambulating the Kaaba, Hindus worship Shiva by walking around the Shiva Lingam. It would be ironic indeed if billions of Muslims through the centuries have been worshipping Shiva, particularly since Hindus are regarded as the ultimate sinners by Muslims for practicing idolatry, and since Somnath has been the most frequently destroyed of temples by Muslim conquerors.

Barry

Posted by: barry at August 9, 2005 1:49 AM

There is quite a bit of irony in the fact that the pilgrimage to Mecca represents a form of idol worship, one of the cardinal sins of Islam. The Black Stone, held in the Kaaba, represents the centre of the Islamic world. Most pilgrims will try desperately to touch and kiss The Stone as they circumambulate the Kaaba. This ritual is probably a legacy of pre-Mohammedan animism.

Some Hindus have suggested from the color and shape of The Black Stone, that it is essentially a Shiva Lingam, perhaps initially worshipped by Hindu traders to Arabia or brought over by Arabs themselves to worship. Either seems possible as the most sacred and oldest Shiva temple in India, Somnath, is located on the West coast of the most Western of India's states, Gujarat, which was and continues to be a major trading partner with the Arab world.

Like Muslims circumambulating the Kaaba, Hindus worship Shiva by walking around the Shiva Lingam. It would be ironic indeed if billions of Muslims through the centuries have been worshipping Shiva, particularly since Hindus are regarded as the ultimate sinners by Muslims for practicing idolatry, and since Somnath has been the most frequently destroyed of temples by Muslim conquerors.

Barry

Posted by: barry at August 9, 2005 1:50 AM

Hugh: I think that to take even a little away from the destructive heart of the Islamic whirlwind would already be meritorious. Not everyone can be as enlightened as you are, but anyone who fights to preserve heritage under threat from fanatical monsters has me as an ally.

Posted by: Paolo at August 9, 2005 5:26 PM