I for the life of me cannot find this in
any references on the web about the Koran.
or in the Koran itself...

Where are they getting this idea from...
Is there a reference for this anyplace??

Posted by: jingoist at August 22, 2005 9:11 PM

Don't think FGM is Islamic in origin. For example, it's not practised in Pakistan or India.

Posted by: raven at August 22, 2005 10:38 PM

You would think, that just as Christianity wrestled with the issue of slavery (something Islam does permit and still practices), Islam, "the perfect religion" would have at least wrestled with this issue of woman abuse. But it doesn't, why?

Probably for the same reasons that Islam has never wrestled with slavery. Oh and for those who say Christianity didn’t wrestle with the morality of slavery, how many countries, like the once dominant Christian USA, have had a war, that cost ten of thousands of lives, with slavery being one of the main issues at the heart of this war? Not to mention all the prominent Christian leaders in the UK who also spoke up about slavery.

You would think that the Islamic nations would surely be able to top this (the US Civil War), after all, their Islamic nations are “House of Peace”, perfect. Yet they never have, Islamic countries have never wrestled with such issues of human rights.

Islam is a warrior code, not a "Religion of Peace". Islam is not, and does not, instil a moral code of love for your fellow man (or woman). In fact can anybody tell me where in the Koran does it say, "Love one another, as I have loved you" or "do unto others...."

We know Mohammed set the example of how to “love” their women, just as he "loved" little 9 year old Aisha, whom he had sex with, and then obviously gloated about it to his followers (hence the reason why it is written down - Mohammed couldn't even respect the privacy of his own bedroom life/”marriage” It was like he was proud of the fact that he had sex with a nine year old).

Just as the Muslims were responsible for rounding up tens of millions of Infidel slaves in the Sub Sahara Africa, kept what they wanted, castrated the males, which is why you find brown coloured, but not African people in the Middle East - "Haratin" People. Muslims had a ready source of slaves in Africa they didn’t need them to “breed” as the USA did. Hence Muslims men had sex with whomever their “right hand possessed” in terms of female slaves - hence the mix of Middle East and African people in the Middle East. In the USA where slaves were not a ready resource, they allowed the slaves to have families - hence the huge African American population in the USA. Muslims castrated the male slaves, not even allowing them the joys of family (albeit within slavery).

Muslims sold the "left over" slaves to European powers. Just as the Muslims today in Africa still round up slaves, the ideology of Islam has no room for real compassion. Only aggression, dominance, and ultimately, submission - submission to hell. After all, why would they care about their women, when the Koran itself tells men to beat women.

Posted by: 3rdtimelucky at August 22, 2005 10:38 PM

I posted to writers above on fgm. If you wish to know more about fgm I'll try to come up with the specific entries.

Posted by: sonofwalker at August 22, 2005 11:35 PM

about FGM

Posted by: miira at August 22, 2005 11:50 PM

Actually, contrary to conventional wisdom, FGM is a legitimate practice in Islam.

Here's what the president of the Supreme Islamic Council (no less) has to say about it:
http://www.acage.org/news/?day=05132005&id=0012

-----------------------------
dolphin, CAGE co-founder.
http://www.acage.org

Posted by: dolphin at August 23, 2005 1:06 AM

Also the hadith (others have refered to it and given it's provenence so I won't ferret to find the reference now) where Mohammed gave his approval to the practice.

He was walking through the streets when he happened upon a woman about to castrate (sorry circumcise) her daughter. As you do (or thankfully don't) as some sort of street theatre presumably. And he called Hey Mother - Greetings and good wishes, but don't cut too deep, it is better for her husband if you leave a little.

The poor kid was probably "lucky" he didn't ask the Mother the price they wanted for her afterwards.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at August 23, 2005 3:27 AM

There are organisations working on eradicating this practice which is outlawed in most countries (but honoured more in the breach than the observance in Africa and the middle East). Kali who used to post here from India sponsored a girl in east Africa through the Godmothers organisation (sorry I can't find the link for that this morning). I know most about the Mothers Union http://www.themothersunion.org because I am a member.

Such projects would welcome your support.

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at August 23, 2005 3:59 AM

FGM makes a lot of sense in islam. When you really think about it the whole cult is based on fear of sexual ability of the males. Children cannot tell if you are a good lover, so have sex with children. Women that have had FGM certainly cannot reach orgasm so they are no threat to the males abilities.
Promised virgins of course have no sexual knowledge. Goats and farm animals cannot critically respond so rape them also. Slaves would fear any negative response. FGM makes great sense in a cult that fears it's own sexual abilities. It is the ultimate small penis fear way of controlling.
Please tell me if I am wrong.

Posted by: vulcan at August 23, 2005 7:25 AM

Here's more information;

Justifying Female Circumcision

Here they actually pretend that it's an issue of hygiene. But since in another Muslim publication I read glowing praises for Allah who so graciously provided the female hymen for "protection from disease" etc., must I assume that with the creation of the female clitoris, Allah goofed?

From a quick glance over this site (I can hardly bring myself to read the articles - even their titles are off-putting), I'd hazard a guess that despite the domain name themuslimwoman.com, its creator was a muslim male!

Posted by: Jen at August 23, 2005 11:21 AM

Jen, thanks for the link.

Note that the text is from:

'Manners of Welcoming the New Born Child in Islaam'

And as you suspected, it was written by a man.

I’ll file this in my ‘You’ve got to be kidding’ folder.

Benefits of Female Circumcision

Here are some of the BENEFITS which have been DISCOVERED:

3) A further benefit that is apparent for women and more so for their husbands, is that women of hot climates often have a large clitoris which arouses their desires when it rubs against the adjacent clothing. It may even grow to such a size that sexual intercourse is not possible. Therefore, circumcision reduces her desires and their effects in the first case, and makes intercourse possible in the second case.

Some folks are born stupid. Others have to work at it.

Posted by: PRCS at August 23, 2005 2:39 PM

For all the headaches and embarrasments and bad spelling Spencer has to endure in the comments section here, this thread is one of the reasons it should stay regardless.

FGM isn't on the best-seller list here, and that doesn't mean a thing. This is not a topic of dicussion that needs to involve a massive number of people. This needs some few people who are willing to act to stop it, at least in our own communities, and at least by talking to ones neighbours. We, as neighbours in this Jihad Watch Community, speak to each other, and I come away, even if after a dozen screaming loonies, with words of encouragement and sensitivity from those who are decent and rational, even if I'm not. This is not a topic for everyone. It's hardly a topic for me. And yet, I rely on the good sense of my neighbours to guide me through this so I can lead other sensible people to them.

There are, believe it or not, those who don't read this site's posts on a daily basis. But I pass them out, edited to suit me, to people who wouldn't otherwise care a hoot for any of this. Now some do, even if they don't come here themselves. Your words reach others unknown to all of us. Maybe it makes a difference unknown to us.

Posted by: sonofwalker at August 23, 2005 3:39 PM

PRCS:

You're welcome! And thanks for some confirmation of my theory that www.themuslimwoman.com is published by a man.

I searched a little further and found this information on that site:

Registrant:
themuslimwoman.com
Main Road
Islamabad,
PK

Domain name: THEMUSLIMWOMAN.COM

Administrative Contact:
Asma, Sister sisterasma@themuslimwoman.com
Main Road
Islamabad,
PK
999-999-9999
Technical Contact:
Zaman, Jamil hostmaster@cyber-services.com
PO Box 16674
Sugar Land, TX 77496-6674
US
281-313-1310

Since Islamabad has a population of around one million, I find this address intriguing. And how did they get such a great telephone number?

This site doesn't list an easily found contact email address, but now that I've found it, I think I'll send Sister Asma an email.

Posted by: Jen at August 23, 2005 6:33 PM

Jen,

Oops!

I took the following from the bottom of your linked article:

Information From Manners of Welcoming the New Born Child in Islaam
By Yoosuf ibn ‘Abdullah Al-Areefee
Translated by Aboo Talhah Daawood ibn Ronald Burbank

The site may, or may not, be run by a man.

But I agree that an email or two to Sister Asma might be in order, as would a call to the Texas hostmaster.

That a woman could possibly believe the nonsense contained in the 'Welcoming...' document is truly mindboggling.

Posted by: PRCS at August 23, 2005 8:54 PM

Translated by Aboo Talhah Daawood ibn Ronald Burbank

I take it that's not Live from Beautiful Downtown Burbank?

Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at August 24, 2005 3:32 AM