| FrontPageMag.com | By Robert Spencer | By Hugh Fitzgerald | Books | Jihad Watch | Robert Spencer | Islam 101 | Qur'an Blog |  |
|
|
||||||||||
|
|
This is because they assume that the families of the suicide bombers are like, say, the families of the Columbine killers: astounded and ashamed by the killings. That may indeed be the case, but the jihad ideology makes this case a bit different from Columbine: it is possible, although not at all certain, that the families hold to the same views as the killers. That should at least be determined, if possible (and not just by statements from the families, for they will no doubt jump at this invitation whether from gratitude or calculation), before such an invitation is made. "Church row over bomber families," from the TimesOnline, with thanks to Steven:
CHURCH leaders want to invite the families of the July 7 suicide bombers to a national memorial service in honour of the victims.The service of commemoration is to be held at St Paul’s Cathedral on November 1 and will be attended by the Queen and Tony Blair.
Two senior Church of England bishops believe that extending the invitation to the bombers’ families would acknowledge their own loss and send a powerful message of reconciliation to the Muslim community. “It will acknowledge the wickedness of the act and the grief and devastation it has caused,” said Martin Wharton, the Bishop of Newcastle. “I believe this has to be an inclusive invitation.”
Jack Nicholls, Bishop of Sheffield, said: “We have to look forward, not back, forward to a society in which Muslims and Christians live together amicably in an integrated community." While Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, declined to comment, senior church sources said that he would “see the value” of inviting the bombers’ families.
Posted by Robert at September 4, 2005 7:29 AM
Print this entry
| Email this entry
| Digg this
| del.icio.us
At this rate history is doomed to repeat itself:
London bomber's uncle defends nephew's 'sacrifice': report
(Updated at 2110 PST)
LONDON: The uncle of Shahzad Tanweer, one of the four London bomb suspects, has defended his nephew's actions as a desperate "sacrifice" in an interview with the British tabloid newspaper.
"These suicide bombers are desperate people," Bashir Ahmed told the Sunday paper. "They are not getting their rights. They can see that their brothers are not getting their rights, so they take extreme action."
"This lad has made a name for himself in the world. Muslims call it a sacrifice, the Europeans call him a terrorist," he was quoted as saying.
Tanweer's uncle laid the blame for the rush-hour attacks on London's transport network at the feet of British Prime Minister Tony Blair and US President George W. Bush, warning, "There will be more".
Posted by: leavingtheleft![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at September 4, 2005 7:57 AM
I wonder if Uncle Bashir will make the invitation list to the memorial service? Seriously, this invitation idea is an unbelievable act of cruelty on the part of the C of E bishops. Can't the families of the victims have a service remembering their loved ones, without imposing Muslim clerics and bomber families on them? After all, the real message of the day will be "We are all victims," if the Muslims are invited. Enough already.....
Posted by: maryrose at September 4, 2005 8:09 AM
CAN YOU GET ANY DUMBER? WHY DONT YOU JUST INVITE BIN LADEN TO THE 911 MEMORIAL MUSEUM WHILE YOUR AT IT.
ROME IS BURNING! ROME IS BURNING, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!
MAYBE IF I STAND REAL STILL WITH A CAN OF GAS THE FIRE WON'T BURN ME.
FRIGGEN RETARDS. THATS AN INSULT TO ALL OF INNOCENTS MURDERED AS WELL.
Posted by: Cpt at September 4, 2005 8:33 AM
PEOPLE WILL LOOK BACK AT THESE DAYS AND SAY THAT WAS THE WORST GREEK TRAGEDY THAT NEVER SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED.
Posted by: Cpt at September 4, 2005 8:36 AM
"...send a powerful message of reconciliation to the Muslim community"
Is it really up to these politicians and geriatric halfwit C of E clerics to do this? Was it their family members blown to bits? Who gave them the right to "forgive and forget" for our nation? They can talk for themselves perhaps, but this is clearly not the case. So on whose behalf do they make these grand gestures without so much as a "by your leave"? ... mine? ...yours? ...the dead? ...the maimed? Under what authority do they perform this mass "reconciliation"?
If the bombers' families had taught them secular and Western values in the first place perhaps they would have never done this to us. Why is their innocence so automatically presumed? It was precisely this kind of spineless "let's not upset them" mentality that gave the green light to Islamist extremity in the UK anyway.
The job of government is to protect us not to comfort our enemies. The British have been giving the Muslim community almost everything they ask for for decades: freedom of speech, freedom of religion, dole money, citizenship, - the works. Through default they raised themselves to an economic level far greater than that which was on offer in Pakistan - a country to which any one of them may return at any time. Our reward is hate, bombs, accusations, plots, riots and general sedition. This is partly the fault of government arrogance, naivety and blindness. They continue to afflict the UK's hapless non-Muslim populace, who have had decades of "reconciliation" with this unendurably useless and hostile community, and know too well the bitter fruits that this ridiculous modus operandi yields.
Now after they have caused the worst attack on London since WWII, it is now down to us to give them a big collective hug? Oh for crying out loud!!! It's enough to make a man turn to strong drink.
at September 4, 2005 8:39 AM
You know what would be bad is if sucicide bombers show up at the memorial.
It would only be being true to Islam. But hell politicians still won't get it.
THERE COMES A TIME WHEN YOU MUST SHARPEN THE END OF THAT OLIVE BRANCH AND STICK RIGHT IN THE EYE OF EVIL.
Posted by: Cpt at September 4, 2005 8:49 AM
Well, it _is_ a very Christian thing to do--if only I could believe it was being done out of Christian love.
The cynical side of me sees it as nothing more than a leftist "we are all victims" [maryrose] political ploy geared more toward taking the heat off Islam than honouring the victims.
Posted by: spect8or at September 4, 2005 8:55 AM
Oh yeah, 8, like, the Conservative Party were ever a major force against Islamists! The right did as much as the left to get us into this mess - if not more. The Muslims came in not at the whim of trade unions or Socialists, but at the whim of big business who wanted cheap labour. The Labour Party, for all its many-many-many faults, has done far more to curb Muslim immigration and asylum seekers than Thatcher or Major ever did.
Posted by: Timbo at September 4, 2005 9:12 AM
I wonder howe many of them would want to attend a Christian service. Or are all the crosses and pictures of Jesus in St Paul's Cathedral going to be covered up in case they offend the muslims.
Why aren't multi-faith services ever held in mosques?
Posted by: 1630r at September 4, 2005 10:54 AM
Wait just a minute, here.
What exactly is Uncle Bashir’s position?
This:
http://www.zeenews.com/znnew/articles.asp?aid=229267&sid=WOR
"This lad has made a name for himself in the world. Muslims call it a sacrifice, the Europeans call him a terrorist," he was quoted as saying.
"Why can't Blair and Bush apologise for the way they have abused the human rights of Muslims. They should apologise. They should stop these injustices."
Or this:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1763915,00.html
The uncle of Shehzad Tanweer, one of the bombers, said his family would be prepared to attend if invited. Asked if some of the victims’ relatives might take offence, Bashir Ahmed said: “If the objection is raised I will be happy to go and apologise for any pain a member of my family may have caused.”
And c'mon Uncle Bashir! "...may have caused?"
at September 4, 2005 11:16 AM
They believe that because they have been able to hold services of reconciliation during the last 60 years with Germany (like the Coventry/Dresden Cathedrals link, which is indeed the Christian thing to do) that Islam is the same.
At risk of boring people I will quote my father-in-law again. A retired Anglican priest who spent the war in Egypt and the Sudan and was a vicar in West Yorkshire some time ago. He said of the church's reaction to Islam "They think they they are dealing with Anglicans just without hymns ancient and modern. But they are not"
I have given my husband strict instructions that if anything ever happens to me in that context then I want him to raise hell. I am not to be forgotten. In order to get the public and the authorities to realise what Islam is really all about he is to make the anti war campaigns of Cindy Sheehan and Reg Keys look like a Sunday school picnic.
Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at September 4, 2005 11:19 AM
Kumbaya, my lord, kumbaya...
Posted by: scaramouoche at September 4, 2005 11:24 AM
An editorial in the same edition of the Times opines that extending this invitation is a bad idea: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2088-1763820,00.html
Posted by: scaramouoche at September 4, 2005 11:27 AM
"The families are in a similar state of loss", Sir Idiot?
Murderer = murderee
I don't think so!
Posted by: treehugger at September 4, 2005 11:50 AM
"The families are in a similar state of loss", Sir Idiot?
Murderer = murderee
I don't think so!
Posted by: treehugger at September 4, 2005 11:50 AM
Granny
It's like the Vicar inviting the family of a murderer to the funeral of his victim isnt it? Sometimes these C of E wets are beyond parody arent they?
at September 4, 2005 12:04 PM
"Church leaders want to invite..."
Mans inhumanity to man? umm...
Mans inhumanity to victims? No, wait...
The West's inhumanity to itself? maybe..
The left's inhumanity, period?
Ah hell, it's just more disfunctional insanity on the part of the PC crowd. This concept of a perfect utopia doesn't even work on paper. As long as the PC/left insists on promoting it's plan of a perfect world, where anything that goes wrong is of course the fault of the uncivilized, neanderthal right/West, people will continue to die, rights will continue to be trampled, and totalitarianism will continue to advance.
Posted by: t-ham at September 4, 2005 12:13 PM
________________________
It appears that the West won't get serious about recognizing the full danger of this enemy until several more attacks, as bad or worse than 911, occur in major Western cities.
Such ineptitude and irrationality must share in the guilt of the needless deaths that may well result.
at September 4, 2005 12:26 PM
The twisted sick logic continues:
See, the families of the suicide murderers are different than the ones that celebrate murder/martyrdom when it's deserving Jews being "murdered for a righteous political cause." These poor Brits are in a different catagory all together -- they were innoncent! And the families of the murderers know the terrible mistake has been made and they're sorry too.
These sickies ignored the slaughter on buses, cafes, the shootings and lynchings when it was just Jews -- yaaawn, you know the "brutal occupiers." Now their warm accepting embrace of Islam is turning out to be a chinese finger trap..
Posted by: Kemaste at September 4, 2005 12:48 PM
Zico
Some clergy understand, or are beginning to.
This is as good a place as any to link this story.
"Lord Carey, the former Archbishop of Canterbury, was concerned that the Prince of Wales's passion for Islam was hindering his development as a Christian,"
I have a lot of time for Dr Carey for various reasons, some personal and not all of them strictly logical. I have less for the heir to the throne who will never be king. As for the current Arch Druid, I can't make him out.
at September 4, 2005 1:27 PM
"Jack Nicholls, Bishop of Sheffield, said: “We have to look forward, not back, forward to a society in which Muslims and Christians live together amicably in an integrated community."
Don't look "forward" . Just look at any Islamic country to see your future, you a-sole of a preacher!
Appeasement is complicity.
Stupidity is also complicity.
at September 4, 2005 1:46 PM
"Jack Nicholls, Bishop of Sheffield, said: 'We have to look forward, not back, forward to a society in which Muslims and Christians live together amicably in an integrated community.'"
-- from the article above
The Bishop of Sheffieldis a menace to everyone in the United Kingdom. He knows nothing about the tenets of Islam, or the history of non-Muslims under Muslim rule. He needs to read something, anything. Who will give him "Islam and Dhimmitude" or "The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam"? Who will call him out?
He is a fool, and a traitor. What can be done to remove these people who have crept into their positions of power and authority? What?
Posted by: Hugh at September 4, 2005 2:32 PM
"What can be done to remove these people who have crept into their positions of power and authority? What?"
Nothing, apparently. It seems that only more external shocks will shake up our climate of opinion sufficiently.
Future historians will be able to measure the degree of irrationality and stupidity of the West by the number and severity of attacks that were necessary before the West finally started getting down to brass tacks in order to defend itself.
at September 4, 2005 3:14 PM
According to premier christian radios website, 2 muslims are going to be PREACHING at bangor cathedral, wales, soon
so the message of antichrist blasphemy (not that it will be presented as such of course) will be proclaimed where only christ the son of god should be
this is being done in the name of solidarity with our muslim neighbours in view of the dreadful backlash theyve suffered since the london bombings
when are these mitred half wits in their gorgeous robes going to start showing solidarity with their christian brothers and sisters in muslim lands?
when is a stand for the truth going to be made by these people
trouble is half of them are apostate and dont know the truth
Posted by: freddiefreeloader at September 4, 2005 4:37 PM
This book was recommended by another poster yesterday.
“Islam in Britain” is the latest publication from the Institute for the Study of Islam and Christianity. It is a detailed study of the position of the British Muslim community, as at February 2005 and looks in particular at the growing influence of Islam in media, education, politics, law and finance, and the way in which the UK is becoming subtly islamized. Focusing on the challenges which Islam poses to Church and society, this report is essential reading for anyone who wants to understand what is happening with regard to Islam in the UK today.
Foreword by Dr Patrick Sookhdeo, Director of the Institute for the Study of Islam and Christianity, and International Director of Barnabas Fund.
http://www.barnabasfund.org/Resources/IinB.htm
I havn't got a copy yet (the cheques in the post honest!) but as Revd Dr Sookhdeo is an Anglican he would be harder for an Anglican bishop to pooh pooh. I better read it first but at £3.99 +95p P&P I'm game for a few more copies.
Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at September 4, 2005 4:47 PM
Granny,
Who are the writers of that book? Odd that it only mentions the author of the Foreword, but not of the book itself.
at September 4, 2005 5:10 PM
The book is the latest publication from the Institute for the Study of Islam and Christianity. The Institute shares the same address as the Barnabas Fund and is described on the Christian Focus website as "a Christian research institute specialising in the status of Christian minorities in the Muslim world." Patrick Sookhdeo is a Director.
I know no more about the book than is on the website which is why I thought I would buy one copy first. I imagine it is a report from the Institute, rather than a series of essays.
Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at September 4, 2005 5:29 PM
i completely agree with timbo "If the bombers' families had taught them secular and Western values in the first place perhaps they would have never done this to us. Why is their innocence so automatically presumed? It was precisely this kind of spineless "let's not upset them" mentality that gave the green light to Islamist extremity in the UK anyway."
and i am also in ageement with granny weatherwax "I have given my husband strict instructions that if anything ever happens to me in that context then I want him to raise hell."
if anything happens to me i want everyone i know to raise hell. no muslim apoligists. no one saying "islam is a religion of peace". that makes me so sick. Why are people so unaware of what is going on in our lands. Or so unready to believe the threat to our society. Why won't people speak out. it upsets me so much this is happening to my world. why is no one on our side?
at September 4, 2005 6:12 PM
Granny
Looks like a great book by Mr Sookhdeo - I might get hold of a copy myself.
Mr Sookhdeo is exactly the kind of church man we need right now.
I think that a study highlighting the persecution faced in Britain by Muslims who leave their faith and convert to Christianity or any other religion is long over due too.
at September 4, 2005 6:42 PM
Zico
You're not wrong there.
at September 5, 2005 4:08 AM
There is a strong component of forgiveness and mercy in the Christian religion. That concept doesn't exist in Islam and the sooner these Anglican clerics face up to that reality the better. Islam has never been interested in the kind of compromises Christians make in the modern age. The only time the Christian church has been effective against them was when the Inquisition expelled Islam by force from its territory. Didn't it occur to them that was why Madrid was the first European city to be bombed and that Bin Laden made similar pronouncements? To this day, Spain is the bete noir of Islam for its role in expelling Islam from Europe. Because Christianity has moved on from medieval thinking, they shouldn't assume that Islam has made the same progression.
Posted by: londongirl at September 5, 2005 4:23 AM
You could get bumped off Granny, it could happen to any one of us.
My sister-in-law is studying nursing. Just this afternoon, in one of her classes, a Bangladeshi guy (with PR in Canada) was handing out Islamic leaflets. He mentioned that he "hated the Jews". She responded that the Jews were her brothers and sisters. He responded: "some friends of mine would kill you for saying that!". "Yes", she said "killing is always on your lips".
Thinly veiled death threats in universities for standing up to anti-Semitism? Where are we, Berlin 1936? No, it's Sydney Australia, 2005.
Posted by: Timbo at September 5, 2005 4:48 AM
Jihad:
Directly from the horses mouth: The mullah's from Iran!
Posted by: Terminator at September 5, 2005 5:51 AM
If I could get bumped off merely for my existence as an infidel then what the hell?
Apostate of Islam once posted here something I remember clearly. That his daughter could wear a skirt, jeans or a sari, whatever she liked, but she would never wear a veil. That about summed it up for me.
I have a great deal of admiration for the Australian bluntness in standing up to Islamic propaganda. I enjoy the Aussie posts.
Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at September 5, 2005 5:51 AM
Timbo,
Your sister-in-law is a very brave person for standing up in this way. Its people like her who will make a difference. So what happens to this guy, did she make a complaint about this threat, for that is what it was, why do we tolerate such racist views against the Jewish people.
On the story, I think inviting the families of these killers is an insult to the memory of those killed and injured, I have no forgiveness in me for these Muslims as they have had all the freedoms and respect of a modern open, rights respecting society and their off-spring etc have thrown that in our faces, there are times to be forgiving, this is not one of them...
Posted by: Daffersd at September 5, 2005 7:08 AM
The Church of England is a joke, a sham, an irrelevance, a waste of space, a palace of mediocrity & appeasement - run by naive hypocritcal left wingers who couldn't get a real job in politics.
Inspite of their vast wealth & influence, the massive fortunes stored up in land chattles & trinkets, the C of E Churches are empty, week in week out. The reason? Its run by PC idiots who have sacrificed the word of their God for political expediency & correctness.
And just why do they have sooooo much power & influence, given their total lack of support by the population of England?
I do not know an Englishman who would shed a tear if the whole disgraceful set up just disappeared entirely & all Chirches handed over to property developers.
And they have the audacity to wonder why people are leaving in droves for the Church of Rome?
After this active expression of naivety & dhimmitude, I would not be surprised if the remaining few were to follow.
Truly sickening.
Posted by: albion at September 5, 2005 7:29 AM
Albion
I have to disagree with you about the Church of England.
The church which produced and supports the Barnabas Fund (about which there have been a lot of posts lately, not just mine) is not beyond hope. Many parishes, mine included are flourishing. I don't believe that I, or the work that goes on in and around my parish, is a sham, an irrelevance, a waste of space and I don't think you really meant that we were?
at September 5, 2005 8:20 AM
Daffersd - no she won't - but I might.
Does anybody (from Oz) have that government anti-terrorist number they were advertizing last year? I lost the crappy fridge magnet.
Posted by: Timbo at September 5, 2005 10:46 AM
granny - ive been emailed re that book as well, should be an interesting read, i think. if patrick sookdheos names on it it wont be bad
Posted by: freddiefreeloader at September 5, 2005 2:02 PM
Event 'not for bombers families'
Hehe. Common sense just about prevailing here in UK... :)
Posted by: freestar at September 5, 2005 2:20 PM
Granny,
I am happy we can disagree.
Yes, in my humble opinion the C of E is irrelevant in fighting Jihad in the UK - in fact it is an obstacle to success.
If you require further proof just look at the so called leadership - could they get any more Dhimmi platitudes to drop out of their unworthy mouths?
When have they ever gone up against Islam, intellectually, using the very real arguments & stand points so expertly espoused here at DW/JW?
Nothing. Not a word.
Any of the stories here from around the globe bought up at the cosy "interfaith forums"?
By their words & actions they are known.
By their lack of words & actions they are condemned.
Yes, people like your good self do sterling work for your communities out of the Church of England, but the whole edifice is crumbling - & until the so called leadership find the courage to say what they see in England the decline is assured & inevitable.
A Church that is led by idiots who care more for the feelings of the families of the bombers (who lets face it are totally complicit in their childrens actions) are not, again in my humble opinion, worth a damn.
Posted by: albion at September 6, 2005 7:51 AM
Yes, the freedom to debate, discuss and ultimately agree to differ is one of the many things about our society worth fighting for.
Posted by: Granny Weatherwax at September 6, 2005 10:30 AM
Indeed Granny. Fair play to you.
Best regards
Albion
at September 6, 2005 11:02 AM
(Note: Comments on articles are unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Dhimmi Watch or Robert Spencer. Comments that are off-topic, offensive, slanderous, or otherwise annoying may be summarily deleted. However, the fact that particular comments remain on the site IN NO WAY constitutes an endorsement by Robert Spencer of the views expressed therein.)