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Where is the ACLU, howling in protest? Evidently prayer in public schools is just fine, as long as it isn't Christian prayer. "Muslim parents seek cooperation from schools," from CNN, with thanks to all who sent this in:
CLIFFSIDE PARK, New Jersey (AP) -- Yasmeen Elsamra had a simple request: While her classmates were eating lunch, she wanted to go off by herself for a few moments to pray.The 14-year-old was told she couldn't, and went home distraught that afternoon in October 2003. Praying five times a day is a cornerstone of her Muslim faith.
"If I wasn't allowed to pray my second prayer at school, I couldn't do it at home," she said. "When school finishes, the third prayer begins."
Her family contacted a Muslim advocacy group, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, which asked the school district to reconsider. Eventually, the district acknowledged it had no policy preventing a student from praying on his or her own during free time, and allowed Yasmeen to use an empty classroom to unfurl her prayer rug, face Mecca and touch her head to the floor in a few moments of worship.
Her case was part of a nationwide grassroots effort by Muslim parents to make public schools more friendly and accommodating to Muslim students. The movement has gained strength since the September 11, 2001, terror attacks.
"The reality for many Muslim students in public schools is very difficult," said Ingrid Mattson, vice president of the Islamic Society of North America. "It's highly stressful."
She said her children were sometimes taunted in their Connecticut school district.
"The kids will say 'Hey Osama, do you have a bomb? Are you going to blow us up?"' she said. "My daughter has had people try to pull her head scarf off, or say 'What are you doing with that rag on your head?' But they have also had friends who defended them."
Noor Ennab, a fifth-grader who attends the private Muslim Al-Noor School in New York City, said she was driven out of her public school by post-September 11 harassment.
"Before that (the 2001 terror attacks) happened, we were treated so kind," she said. "Now it's like, 'You're a terrorist; get out of this country."'
Older students also have had problems. Debra Mason of Jersey City dropped out of Fairleigh Dickinson University's nursing program after she said she was told to remove her head covering during patient rounds. The New Jersey civil rights division recently found probable cause to proceed with an investigation into whether the school violated her rights. The school declined to comment.
Some school districts are starting to take notice. A zero-tolerance policy on harassment of Muslim students was adopted by Florida's Broward County school board in March 2003, just before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.
In February, Muslim community leaders led the Pledge of Allegiance at a San Antonio high school as part of a daylong conference on Islam.
Paterson, New Jersey, home of the state's largest Arab-American community, lets some students out of class early Fridays to attend prayers with their parents' permission, and is one of a handful of New Jersey districts that closes schools for Eid-al-Fitr, a Muslim religious holiday.
"You're seeing a lot of schools becoming more sensitive this way," said Michael Yaple, a spokesman for the New Jersey School Boards Association.
Bassima Mustafa, a civics teacher in Paterson, said it is crucial that students feel comfortable and welcome in the classroom.
"A majority of our students are immigrants or the children of immigrants," she said. "It's going to spread as the population increases."
Posted by Robert at September 6, 2005 10:23 AM
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Looks very much to me like the US needs the type of laws introduced in France to ban religious symbols, which, while its a long way from perfect, is at least a step in the right direction.
Posted by: thomas ato![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at September 6, 2005 10:43 AM
The issue of prayer in our schools is one of those extremely dangerous, slippery slope situations where Conservative Christians (capital C's) may be lulled by people like Grover "Hiss" Norquist into thinking they should make common cause with Muslims.
They should think again.
Posted by: Rebecca JW at September 6, 2005 10:47 AM
Proof yet again that they do not want to live in the West by our rules.
The Dhimmi's & the left in the West cannot see that the Muslim lobby gains preferential treatment through constantly selling themselves as the eternal suffering victims, over & above everyone else. They cannot see that they are reinforcing Muslims mental state of superiority over non-believers.
Appeasement, special favours, a nod here, a wink there...all leading to one law for them (Sharia) & one law for us - right at the heart of our so called democracies.
They know what they are doing, & how to use our system to get what they want over & above the rest of us.
Even down to using their children to force the issue.
Well, they use their own kids as suicide bombers .........................................so using them as the forward column to exact special treatment over & above other religious types & non believers (the clear, massive majority on the planet)should not come as a surprise.
What do they want in the West? Is it to better their economic life or is it more sinister?
With each passing day I am convinced that every action they take all over the globe is orchestrated, targeted & measured.
These are the days of no leaders in the West.
Posted by: albion at September 6, 2005 10:55 AM
I cringe to say this, but I'm beginning to think that democracy isn't up to the task ahead of us!
Posted by: Mark at September 6, 2005 11:08 AM
Muslim logic: buy a gun, shoot your kid, and complain he/she is being killed. Doh! These parents knew that their daughter attended a public school, so what gives?
Posted by: Jan Vink
at September 6, 2005 12:00 PM
Albion,
it is orchestrated, targeted and measured, they have developed a long term plan to make Islam the one religion across the globe, you step back a bit and look at what is going on and it stares you in the face.
You hear all the time that there is no centre for Islam, I happen to think that is bullshit. There are schools of jurisprudence from the various sects which have imams of different levels, there is contact between them and a hierachy of seniority. Look at those conferences where imams will meet to set fatwa's or pretend that Islam is a religion of peace. The Wahhabi's sect is the centre, they are using their money to develop Islam, they tie in the other sects and centres via patronage to their general goals.
This is a logical assessment of what I can see to be the structure and approach, I may be wrong but I bet Hugh could either confirm or refute my assessment.
Mark,
That is what a lot of us fear, we may end up unleashing the extremists, or acts of vigilantism by a population that has no leaders worthy of them, but are also sapped by a failure to see the beauty and fragility of their own system of government. I fear that you may be right, we need a Winston Churchill, but even that is not enough as many of our people have lost all pride and respect in being free and democratic.
Take me, I have not voted for 3 general elections, the reason is that the system is skewed against the south-east of England by the numbers of people in the constituencies in the south (Tories) and those in the North, Scotland and Wales (Labour).
Now if I could register as a postal vote in Scotland then my vote will have some weight, but its rather like being a German in the EU and meeting a Luxemboruger who is far weightier than I in voting terms.
So I have lost respect for the system, it rather saps my will to fight for it.
Though I of course know that there is still perhaps enough democracy to at least make a point.
Posted by: Daffersd at September 6, 2005 12:02 PM
Where is the ACLU? Here is the answer. When a Christian wants to pray in public school, it is unconstitutional. When a Muslim wants to pray in public school, it is multicultural. I hope that clarifies things.
Posted by: sbrst at September 6, 2005 12:05 PM
Albion,
Read this, it will make your hair stand up on end, it did me!!!
http://freedomhouse.org/religion/pdfdocs/FINAL%20FINAL.pdf
at September 6, 2005 12:24 PM
The ACLU, which took a wrong term some time ago, just as has Amnesty International under Ms.Irene "Guantanamo Bay is as bad as the Gulag" Khan, or a good many other groups wrapped in a mantle, and a facade, of Righteousness that, upon closer inspection, is highly tendentious Self-Righteousness, with a large dose of philo-islamic apologetics thrown in.
Consider for example the ACLU's fighter against the Patriot Act in Massachusetts, one Nancy Murray. For decades she was involved, as her daughter Rebecca has been (even standing guard at the Muqata to "protect" Chairman Arafat when he was alive), in rabidly anti-Israel activities. Yet this history was not held against her; no, she turned out to be quite the perfect pick to "defend" our "civil rights" from the Gestapo-like behavior of our government in its "war against Islam."
Consider the National Coordinator, a certain Matt Bowles, who was caught organizing a boo-in and shout-down (so much for that celebrated ACLU commitment to free speech) of Daniel Pipes, who wrote about it. Apparently Matt Bowles did not care for Pipes' skepticism about Islam, or at least about "immoderate" Muslims.
One could have fun listing the "red diaper babies" -- i.e., children of old-fashioned American Communists and communist sympathizers, in, for example, the New York office of the ACLU. Apparently the abandonment of one kind of totalitarianism leads to the adoption of another.
One can only conclude that those who do not like America or the Western world now find that their alienation, their hatred, can best be expressed through the vehicle of Islam, and that while they themselves are far too rational to become Muslims themselves (that's for the Spiritual Searchers, the women seduced by Muslim men, the economically and psychically marginal, and the sheer crazies, not the lucid leftists), they sense that Islam is to be defended, protected, explained away.
Funny to see those who would ordinarily never give something called a "religion" the time of day, going all out for that Total Regulation of Life, that Complete Explanation of the Universe, that is as primitive a thought-system as one can imagine, that is the enemy of all conceivable ideas of equality (of men and women, of those who believe in a particular doctrine and those who do not), of freedom of conscience, being defended, even secretly supported, by those who, if they analyzed Islam correctly, would come to the conclusion that Ibn Warraq did -- not "islamofascism" (a term dear to Christopher Hitchens but entirely tautological) but Islam itself, shares almost every characteristic that defines Fascism, and the fascistic impulse, of whatever kind.
The ACLU has nothing to do with the ACLU of yore. In fact, those who would gladly have supported the ACLU in 1950, or 1954, or 1958, or 1962, should be those most contemptuous of it today. Many of those who work for it have shown that they are willing, conscious handmaidens of a fascist creed.
Posted by: Hugh at September 6, 2005 12:28 PM
There was a public school in NY that was allowing Muslims to pray in school while forbidding others to pray. Parents of non-Muslim students found out, threatened to sue and the illegal practice was stopped. If Muslims want to pray at school on their own time fine, but there should be no special rooms offered. If Muslims want to pray outside of their free time they need to do that in private Muslim funded schools.
Posted by: Roxane at September 6, 2005 1:57 PM
Look, Muslims don't come to America to integrate. They come to interleave. Don't believe me, just ask any of them. They do not come to the West to adopt Western values such as democratic public choice, rule of law, parliamentary legislation, and separation of religion and government. They come to conquer. They come to destroy. They come to kill those who do not submit. This has been the Muslim play book for 13 centuries. To believe otherwise one needs to completely ignore over a thousand years of precedent. Our ancestors knew the score. How many of our children must be slaughtered at the hands of the jihadi horde before we too understand the awful truth of the present danger to our civilization?
The issue of this article is not prayer, it is conquest. Prayer, "Islamic" dress, halal food, Muslim holidays, etc., are all part of the plan of conquest. Today they use words. When they have gained strength they will use guns and bombs. That is how they have done it for more than a thousand years.
Sorry folks, we simply can't make this stuff up. This is no movie, this is real. Eventually, these people want you and your children all dead if you do not submit. More than a thousand years of experience have taught us so. Remember that, more than a thousand years, not one, not ten, not a hundred, not five hundred, but more than a thousand years...remember that.
Posted by: Hulegu Khan at September 6, 2005 2:19 PM
The chaos that would exist if competing prayer practices are allowed during the school day could sink public education. Allowing Muslims the special privilege to prayer during class time or leave the supervision and authority of the classroom teacher weakens the authority of the school and of the individual teacher to supervise and organize students best for the purpose of educating and instructing students.
Students of any religious stripe whose religious needs would disrupt the school day and thus the educational process should be enrolled in a school that is dedicated to a religion.
Students are not attending school either for the purpose of religious indoctrination as they would be in religious schools or for the purpose of religious practice, which should be done during services.
Posted by: epg at September 6, 2005 2:20 PM
I don't know if this essay by Bill Whittle has been linked
TRIBES
http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000129.html
I recomend it. Apart from a good read, it points the way to what we have to do.
at September 6, 2005 5:17 PM
Hmm. CNN seems to have altered the story's caption, lest it would stir up some unneeded concerns among its audience.
In the original, which we still have here - http://www.acage.org/news/?day=09042005&id=0005 , the title is much more revealing.
-----------------------------
dolphin, CAGE co-founder.
http://www.acage.org
at September 6, 2005 10:12 PM
We are demented to allow islam to make inroads into our society.
Like pre WW2, the longer we watch the rot taking over, the tougher, and bloodier, the ultimate fight to survive will be.
And like pre WW2, and in the middle of the soviet communist menace, many of the 'oh so smart' types, have got it very wrong, dangerously undermining our society.
Where the f-ck is the leadership we need; not a far rightist, but a centrist who understands that islam is out to destroy our society and our freedoms, and is attacking us from without and from within.
at September 7, 2005 3:01 AM
I support a strict interpretation of the principle of "separation of church and state". That means no display of religion in any form in any public institution. No crosses, no ten commandments, no yamikas, no head scarves, no prayer rooms, ect., etc. This is for the protection of me and my interests as well as everyone else's interests.
Il Toscano
Posted by: il toscano at September 7, 2005 9:25 AM
Daffersd
Thanks for that (I think)!!
I can assure you, if I had any hair at all it would, as you predicted, be standing to full attention.
Posted by: albion at September 7, 2005 12:01 PM
"the district acknowledged it had no policy preventing a student from praying on his or her own during free time, and allowed Yasmeen to use an empty classroom to unfurl her prayer rug, face Mecca and touch her head to the floor in a few moments of worship."
King: Yes, I've been lurking about, reading your usual go-nowhere posts. I had to chime in on this one.
Being a strict church and state separatist, I am the first in line to protest organized prayers, of any kind, in public schools. This being said, I have zero problem with a student praying discretely on his/her own free time. It is rather convenient, I suppose, for Christians or Jews to pray since there are no rugs or directional orientation requirements so they can simply sit quietly and say their private prayers. I saw it all of the time in school, a Christian would break out their Bible and read a few passages at lunch. Not my bag but fine by me. If this Muslim girl wants to use a few minutes of her lunch period to go off to a quiet spot to fulfil her prayer requirement, I have no issue with this and neither should you all.
The problem would be in organized Bible or Koran readings during school hours, morning prayers over the PA system, or the use of one sort of prayer to open a school-related ceremony. All of the above are inappropriate and openly endorse one kind of religious expression.
Posted by: KingTolerance
at September 7, 2005 1:25 PM
Kingie: "All of the above are inappropriate and openly endorse one kind of religious expression. "
Oh. Like religious visits to schools?
Praying on their own free time in school...darn, I must be paranoid. See, I was just SURE that somewhere or other, sometime or other, the ACLU had done it's darnedly-doodleyest to make sure that that was what (Christian) students COULDN'T do. Maybe I'm wrong. Kinda doubt it though, know what I mean? =)
Seriously, you call yourself a leftist? Fascist git.
Also, allah knows naught.
Prophet Geoff
at September 7, 2005 3:35 PM
Praying on their own free time in school...darn, I must be paranoid. See, I was just SURE that somewhere or other, sometime or other, the ACLU had done it's darnedly-doodleyest to make sure that that was what (Christian) students COULDN'T do.
There is quite a bit of misinformation about the ACLU. I've never seen them try to stop anybody praying by themselves. They are against any form of prayer that has the appearance of official sanction. This includes most of the famous cases such as prayers at graduations and at school sporting events.
Posted by: Viking5 at September 7, 2005 5:40 PM
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