Hey doc, how about using some common sense and just not click on the comments section if it upsets you that much.

Oh and Doc, please learn to use a spell checker lest you be mistaken for a "somewhat grimy" pompous academic.

Posted by: William The Crusader at September 27, 2005 5:13 AM

I read Dr. MacEoin's comments several times. His main complaint seems to be that members of the unwashed masses have been given the opportunity to publish comments and, therefore, tainting any words of wisdom that he might impart to the unenlightened. Like William the Crusader, I know a simple solution for Dr. MacEoin. Don't click to the comment section. Just read and appreciate the many articles that JW/DW offers on a daily basis.

Posted by: maryrose at September 27, 2005 6:33 AM

I read Dr. MacEoin's comments several times. His main complaint seems to be that members of the unwashed masses have been given the opportunity to publish comments and, therefore, tainting any words of wisdom that he might impart to the unenlightened. Like William the Crusader, I know a simple solution for Dr. MacEoin. Don't click to the comment section. Just read and appreciate the many articles that JW/DW offers on a daily basis.

Posted by: maryrose at September 27, 2005 6:34 AM

'I am not left-wing, but consider myself politically liberal, which means I support things like democracy, human rights, freedom of speech and so on.'

Implying that anyone who posts here, doesn't. I also see he is right there with the likes of giaour, which in itself serves to water down the issue at hand. However I have yet to see (and never will see) stonings in the US (unless islam comes to power).

Posted by: Gary at September 27, 2005 7:05 AM

Dr. MacEoin - many posters at "the watches" are interested in cause and effect. The lessons of history have demonstrated that Islam has had a deleterious effect on target populations and, if one looks at current events, history in the making, Islam continues in the same vein.

Posted by: epg at September 27, 2005 7:58 AM

With all due respect to his erudition the good doctor is wasting my time. I really haven`t seen any racism or bigotry. Anger yes. But not the deluge of the `negatives` that he implies.

And he can`t really teach me anything new in Islam. So?

Posted by: leavingtheleft at September 27, 2005 8:00 AM

It's democracy Doc, you are always going to hear things you don't like or agree with. That's the brilliant, shining glory of Democracy. As someone said, "It ain't perfect, but it's the best we have".

Posted by: t-ham at September 27, 2005 8:30 AM

Who the fuck is this guy anyway?

Posted by: Anthony at September 27, 2005 8:40 AM

"Dr." MacEoin

Never heard or read you, apart from here.

Sorry the opinions here of real people, with real passion, offend you sooo much.

Some people here are off the mark in the sanity stakes, on occassion, but their heart is in the right place.

Maybe you should just relocate to an Islington bistro with all the other liberal intellectuals & drown your sorrows with copiuos amounts of fair trade produce, never again to venture out into the dangerous internet where those horrid un-professional, un-published writers dwell & take up all your valuable space with their "racist" & inane comments.

Or you could start your own site - & vet everyone who subscribes anything on any topic, just to make sure that you & your scribblings are the star of the show....

Posted by: albion at September 27, 2005 8:54 AM

Dear Denis,

I find myself as a secularist and previously a multi-culturist, extremely saddened to feel the way I do now about the Muslim's, having cheered when the Iarqi's had their opportunity to vote for example.

But like many I needed to understand more about Islam. And have looked at it as a normal person, having a very good knowledge of current affairs and history, though not to the level of Hugh and others here.

"I don't think it's remotely arrogant to suggest that someone who has studied Islam at an advanced level in the original languages using Islamic texts may be better placed than most laypeople to evaluate Islamic matters."

I don't care about the rights and the wrongs of Islam, all I am aware of is that Islam is killing people all over the planet and it directly threatens my rights as an individual. And what Islam is doing now directly impacts me.

And I can tell you now that my most intense anger is directed at those European leaders who have foolishly since the 1970's allowed Arab imperialists to just walk all over them. Those are the people that I really hate and detest.

People like me thought that we could have one world, we are are the human race, that vision that hope, for me, has been destroyed by the religion of Islam. I don't hate Muslims, I pity them, but also I have contempt for their backwardness, their arrogance, their hatred, their self-righteous superiority, their hatred for the Jews, when I look at Islam, all I see is aggression, lies, manipulation, schemeing, whining, grabbing, criminal behaviour, raping and killing and most amazingly of all a feeling of unearned smug superiority.

I don't have to apologise at all for the way I feel, I as an individual have never stolen, hurt anyone and have been faithful to my wife, I watch people who follow Islam do all of those things, I would suggest that even a layman can see what is wrong with the so-called religion of peace.

Daffersd

Posted by: Daffersd at September 27, 2005 9:17 AM

The regular posters at JW/DW are actually quite well-versed on islam; many have been studying it for years, some just since 9/11, and some because they have been awakened by daily events.

Silencing our voices here will not stop the burgeoning movement, nascient among the Wetern masses, to halt and reverse the spread of jihadism and indeed of islam itself, as the two in their current forms are inseparable.

Wanting to eliminate LEGITMATE criticism of islam, along with its concomitant righteous indignation, outrage and other appropriate emotions, sounds suspiciously familiar . . . where have we heard this before? From muslims, perhaps?

Posted by: CGW at September 27, 2005 9:40 AM

This whole missive is ripe for fisking but I have real life to live today so I'll keep it brief.

"but still try to appreciate those elements that elevate it (such as the finer forms of Sufism, the poetry, the architecture, and the belief in material simplicity over greed)."

Dr. Denis "no inverted commas please" MacEoin meet Karen Armstrong.

Wanker.

Posted by: Whistling Dixie at September 27, 2005 9:56 AM

I feel myself getting that Omid Safi-kinda feeling.

Posted by: CGW at September 27, 2005 10:15 AM

Or is it Thomas Haidon?

Posted by: CGW at September 27, 2005 10:16 AM

christian policies? george bush? does anyone know anything about this?

Posted by: freddiefreeloader at September 27, 2005 10:21 AM

While I may mot have "studied Islam at an advanced level in the original languages using Islamic texts" even an uneducated oaf such as my self can understand the implications of the terror attacks list provided below (from the ROP website) and the news items posted here on Jihadwatch. Given that these folks would happily do the same to myself and my family, I also damn well plan on having an opinion about it.

Ivory tower academics, feh.

9/27/05 Iraq Baqoubah 9 21 A suicide bomber kills himself and nine innocents in the process of applying for government jobs. Twenty-one others are injured.
9/26/05 Thailand Tonmaisoong 1 1 A 54-year-old man is killed by Muslim terrorists while sitting in a tea shop.
9/26/05 Iraq Muelha 6 0 In a senseless attack, nine Sunni gunmen walk into an elementary school and drag five Shia teachers and their driver out of their classrooms, put them up against a wall and execute them.
9/26/05 Afghanistan Helmand 4 0 Taliban landmine kills all four people in a passenger car.
9/26/05 Iraq Baghdad 6 14 A suicide bomber blows himself to Allah in an attack against a bus carrying oil ministry staff workers, taking six innocents with him and leaving fourteen others critically injured.
9/26/05 Israel Ramallah 1 0 The body of an Israeli factory worker is found after he is kidnapped, tortured and killed by Hamas.
9/25/05 Pakistan Lahore 2 0 Two more victims of the 9/22 blast die from injuries, including a 7-year-old girl.
9/25/05 India Kalotra 1 0 A government lecturer is shot to death by the Mujahideen.
9/25/05 Iraq Baghdad 9 12 A horrific scene of twisted metal, charred bodies and blood, as a 'Holy Warrior' kills himself in a bombing attack that also takes the lives of nine others.
9/25/05 Iraq Hilla 5 48 A bomb planted on a bicycle kills a passerby outside a music store. Elsewhere, four bodies are found bound and murdered.
9/25/05 Iraq Mussayib 6 19 A Fedayeen suicide bomber on a motorcycle kills six civilians and injures about twenty others.
9/24/05 Chechnya Grozny 6 11 Three Mujahideen terror attacks leave six Russian servicemen dead and eleven wounded.
9/24/05 India Gandoh 1 0 The mother-in-law of a police officer is killed inside her home by Islamic militants.
9/23/05 Thailand Narathiwat 2 2 Two policemen are killed by a mobile-phone bomb triggered by Islamists.
9/23/05 Iraq Baghdad 6 12 Suicide bomber targets a civilian passenger bus and kills six people and injures at least a dozen.
9/23/05 Thailand Pattani 2 0 In separate attacks, a construction worker and a public health employee are gunned down by Muslim terrorists.
9/23/05 Thailand Yala 1 0 Militant Muslims shoot a migrant worker to death.
9/23/05 Iraq Karbala 1 4 A suicide bomber succeeds in killing a small child. Four others are wounded.
9/23/05 Pakistan Gilgit 2 2 Sunni terrorists open fire on a bus, killing two Shias, including a 15-year-old girl.
9/23/05 India Kulgam 1 0 Militant Muslims kill a female police officer in her home.
9/23/05 Palestine Jebaliya 17 140 A Hamas truck, loaded with rockets intended for Israel, explodes early, killing seventeen Palestinians (including three children) and injuring another one-hundred and forty.
9/22/05 India Pathan Mohalla 1 1 Two family members are abducted from their home by the Mujahideen. The father is released after his son is exectuted.
9/22/05 Pakistan Lahore 6 27 Two separate bomb blasts in commercial areas by Muslim terrorists kill six, including a woman, and injure thirty.
9/22/05 Iraq Baghdad 9 3 Jihadis kill nine people in four attacks, including the owner of a tile-making factory, who is killed in his home along with his two sons and daughter-in-law.
9/21/05 Algeria Msila 2 5 The Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat stages a terrorist attack against an Algerian army patrol, killing at least two.
9/21/05 Afghanistan Jozjan 7 0 Seven musicians are slaughtered by the Taliban as they are traveling home from a wedding.
9/20/05 Iraq Mosul 4 2 A suicidal extremist kills an American diplomat and three civilian contractors in a car bombing.
9/20/05 Pakistan Shakai 2 8 al-Qaeda kills a tribal leader and a soldier in separate remote-controlled bomb attacks.
9/20/05 Afghanistan Uruzgan 3 3 Three policemen are killed by the Taliban while traveling home.
9/20/05 Afghanistan Sahag 2 0 Two civilians are killed in a roadside terror bombing by the Taliban.
9/20/05 Chechnya Karabulak 3 1 Shouting 'Allah Akbar,' masked terrorists attack a group of border policemen checking passports, killing three.
9/20/05 India Udhampur 3 0 Three civilians are shot to death after the Mujahideen invade their homes.
9/20/05 Chechnya Krasny Voskhod 1 3 An ambush by Jihadis on a police convoy leaves one officer dead.
9/20/05 Thailand Tanyong Limo 2 0 Two Thai marines are captured by Muslim villagers when their car breaks down. The people later stab and beat the two Buddhists to death after holding them hostage for 18 hours.
9/19/05 India Doda 2 0 Two civilians are killed in their homes by the Mujahideen.
9/19/05 Kabardino-Balk. Nalchik 1 0 Mujahideen kill a Russian soldier in a terror attack.
9/19/05 Iraq Basra 1 0 Islamic extremists kidnap, torture, and kill a reporter for the New York Times.
9/19/05 Iraq Karbala 10 12 Two suicide bombers strike Shia pilgrims as they are walking on foot to a shrine. Ten are killed and at least a dozen injured.
9/19/05 India Takiya Sheikhpora 1 0 A villager has his throat slit by the Mujahideen.
9/19/05 Algeria Skikda 4 0 Islamic fundamentalists kill two civilians and two Algerian soldiers in a remote area.
9/18/05 Iraq Baghdad 1 4 Sunnis open fire on a group of Shia civilians, killing at least one.
9/18/05 Iraq Kirkuk 4 3 Four Iraqi security force personnel are killed by a roadside bomb planted by Jihadis.
9/18/05 Pakistan Wana 1 0 al-Qaeda shoots a 50-year-old schoolteacher to death.
9/18/05 Thailand Tanyong Limo 2 0 Militant Muslims stage a shooting attack on a tea shop, killing two men.
9/18/05 Afghanistan Khost 2 0 Two secruity officers are killed by the Taliban in an ambush.
9/17/05 Iraq Baghdad 9 0 Sunni radicals kidnap and torture nine men before killing them exectution style.
9/17/05 India Surankote 1 0 A civilian is abducted from his village and beheaded by the Mujahideen.
9/17/05 Iraq Nahrawan 30 38 al-Qaeda murders thirty Shiites in a street bombing in an industrial area. About forty others are injured in the blast.
9/17/05 Iraq Mushahada 3 1 A Jihad ambush on an Iraqi Parliament member leaves him and two civilians dead.
9/16/05 Chechnya Grozny 2 4 Muslim terrorists attack a police car on the city streets, killing an officer and a civilian.
9/16/05 Lebanon Beirut 1 22 A bomb placed in a Christian neighborhood kills one man and injures twenty-two other people.
9/16/05 Iraq Tuz 10 21 A suicidal Sunni kills himself and ten others outside a Shia mosque with a car bomb. Almost two dozen others are injured.
9/16/05 Iraq Baghdad 12 22 Five Jihad attacks leave about a dozen Iraqis dead and over twenty injured.
9/15/05 Afghanistan Ghazni 1 2 An Afghan interpretor is killed by the Taliban in a roadside attack.
9/15/05 Iraq Baghdad 23 32 Three Fedayeen suicide bombers kill at least twenty Iraqis and injure more than thirty more in a commercial district. Three bodies are found elsewhere.
9/15/05 Iraq Mosul 1 3 A terrorist bomb explodes in a Shia mosque, killing the Imam and injuring three others.
9/15/05 Afghanistan Helmand 1 0 A candidate for election is pulled from his house and exectuted by religious extremists.
9/15/05 Iraq Karbala 3 0 Three Shia pilgrims on their way to a shrine are gunned down by Sunni radicals.
9/15/05 India Tipri 2 0 The Mujahideen guns down two civilians in cold blood at their village.
9/15/05 Thailand Narathiwat 1 1 Muslim terrorists shoot a former school teacher to death in front of his wife, who narrowly escapes with her life.
9/15/05 Thailand Yala 1 0 A 40-year-old man is killed by Muslim extremists on his way to work at a rubber plantation.
9/14/05 Iraq Baghdad 134 300 'Holy Warrior' suicide bombers stage twelve separate attacks against Shia civilians (mostly day laborers looking for work). About one-hundred and thirty-five are slaughtered, with over three-hundred others injured.
9/14/05 Iraq Taji 17 0 Sunni gunmen invade Shia homes in the middle of the night, pulling seventeen men out and murdering them execution style.
9/14/05 Chechnya Argun 5 3 Islamic militants open fire on a group of Russian soldiers from a house, killing five.
9/14/05 Pakistan Quetta 1 0 Sunnis murder a Shia civilian.
9/14/05 Afghanistan Tirin Kot 3 4 Taliban extremists kill three civilians traveling in a car. Four others, including a child, are badly injured.
9/13/05 Russia Buinaksk 1 1 Coordinated attack by Muslim terrorists leaves a Russian policeman dead.
9/13/05 Algeria Sidi Daoud 3 0 Three Algerian troops are killed in an ambush by the Salafi Group for Preaching and Combat.
9/13/05 Afghanistan Zabul 1 0 An election official is captured and hanged by the Taliban.
9/13/05 Afghanistan Uruzgan 7 0 The Taliban shoot seven civilians to death after finding election materials in their car.
9/13/05 India Rajouri 1 3 The Mujahideen invade a woman's home, take her food, then shoot her to death and seriously injure her three children.
9/12/05 Chechnya Grozny 1 5 A Mujahideen remote control bomb kills one and injures five.
9/12/05 Bangladesh Khulna 1 0 Islamic extremists suspected in deadly attack on a high school teacher.
9/12/05 India Shopian 1 0 A civilian is abducted and murdered by the Mujahideen.
9/12/05 Pakistan Tappi 3 0 Three citizens are abducted by al-Qaeda terrorists and then have their throats slit after being tortured.

Posted by: treehugger at September 27, 2005 10:36 AM

BTW, just to correct the good "Dr.", as has been stated here many times before, islam is not a race. And bigotry is "unreasoned hatred", while we have EXCELLENT and COMPELLING reasons (especially the more we "study") to despise the evil tenets of the blood-cult.

Posted by: CGW at September 27, 2005 10:53 AM

How utterly fascinating it must be to exist in the academic milieu which allows one to focus on the abstract and the arcane in Islam "...such as the finer forms of Sufism, the poetry, the architecture, and the belief in material simplicity over greed..."

The appeal of the last item "material simplicity over greed" can be no doubt be attributed to the simulacra between the haughty Mac Doctor's "politically liberal" marxism, and the extreme austerity of the soul-less "religion of peace"... No surprise there!

I am so happy for him -- I only wish he showed more humility, and gave the slightest hint that he was aware of how privileged and blessed he is to concentrate on curlicues and arabesques rather than facing the "grimy" reality of ISLAM ON THE GROUND -- THE REAL ISLAM that CUTS OFF LIPS NOSES CLITORISES HANDS HEADS FEET TONGUES THROWS ACID MURDERS BRIDES GIRLS WESTERNERS "INFIDELS" SLAUGHTERS CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTORS DOESN'T TOLERATE DIVERSITY DOESN'T TOLERATE ANYTHING "UNISLAMIC" WON'T REFORM CAN'T REFORM WILL KILL US ALL IF WE LET IT GET THE UPPER HAND AND ROB THE WORLD OF ARTWORK MUSIC KINDNESS GENEROSITY PROGRESS AND THE LIKE...

Grimy indeed --

Posted by: jsla at September 27, 2005 11:23 AM

Oh, I should have added, I hope my posting doesn't offend the "Dr.'s" delicate sensibilities! Oh forfend!

Posted by: jsla at September 27, 2005 11:26 AM

I may know nothing about Islam but what do you conclude when you see that wherever Moslems are, mindless and grotesque violence is never far away?

Posted by: desi_singh at September 27, 2005 11:47 AM

Some guy went to a lot of trouble to prove that wood and water dont exist, just to find out that wood still floats on water. You dont need to be an expert on Islam to get the drift. Once you get passed the taqiyya and kitman and the rest of the lies and distortions, the 'drift' becomes clear. You can see what it is that floats on the water. A 1400 year accumilation of scum masqurading as a religion. You dont need to be an expert to realise that from your point of view, this is not good. Once you know what 'Kill the infidels' means and who the 'infidels' are, thats good enough. The rest of the information may be interesting or pertinent, but it does not change the bottom line. Bragging of your scholarly expertise to people who already get the drift, will only bring scorn, or worse, laughter.
The good Dr refers to himself thirty seven times (count em) using the words, 'I', 'I'm', 'I've', 'me', 'myself'. Does this mean his article is more about himself than anything else? Is his article a resume? Is he in reality applying for a job? I would hire him to explain what is 'missing' about Islam that you 'get' by reading the Quran in Arabic, but he probably cant say...does reading Quran in Arabic produce magickal effects? Does it create saints?
Just exactly what does it do, cause shivers to run up the spine of the reader? Gee whiz, shivers, your on the right track now... A little known Islamic secret...Allah likes shivers , the more muslims shiver the better. The reason that more muslims are not shivering is because most of them dont read the Quran in Arabic. I bet the good Dr shivers a lot...

Posted by: duh_swami at September 27, 2005 12:07 PM

Since the blogs are soon to be the only reliable source of news (since the Saudis are buying our media)..the idea of silencing the "unwashed masses" is abhorrent. Isn't that attitude rather against all the "Dr." claims he stands for? Oops ended a sentence with a preposition, should I be lashed? I guess the idea of superiority will be with us always.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at September 27, 2005 12:32 PM

I do, hoqwever(?), have many objections to the dangerous far-right Christian policies of George Bush and his administration.

Please name one "far-right Christian" policy.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at September 27, 2005 12:45 PM

exactly, carolyn

Posted by: freddiefreeloader at September 27, 2005 1:35 PM

Here is the original comment (to which a link is given above) made after Dr. MacEoin first commented that he would no longer be commenting at Jihad Watch because of the unseemly comments of others:

"A sometime writer on Islam named Denis MacEoin recently posted in the comments section here his intention to unsubscribe to the Jihad Watch/Dhimmi Watch Daily Digest because of his distate for some of the comments posted. Of course, I regard some of them with distaste myself, as I have noted on many occasions, but comments continue to be largely unmoderated -- until such time as funding permits me to hire a full-time moderator -- and hateful rants posted by non-Muslims no more reflect my own views than hateful rants posted by Muslims.

In any case, Jihad Watch Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald has written a response to Mr. MacEoin's complaints, which I thought worthwhile to post as a separate article since it contains much that is useful to help us all keep our focus where it should be.

In order to keep up that subscriber base which is so important for our advertising revenues – Robert tells me we may lose the Tiffany account, and others whisper that both BMW and the Absolut Vodka people are not so sure that they want to continue advertising in Jihadwatch for much longer, so let me do a little damage control by reminding one and all of our virtues.
In the first place, many items of news posted at Jihadwatch/Dhimmiwatch are never reported in the American press, or reported much later. This gathering of so much material, from such wide and disparate sources, showing a worldwide phenomenon, prompted by the same texts and tenets, but expressing itself in local violences and aggressions – is valuable.

So too are many of the postings, which offer analysis that is often useful, and personal testimonies from non-Muslims, from Nigeria, to Indonesia, from Spain to Egypt. It is true that not every posting is a masterpiece of understatement. Sometimes, out of sheer frustration at the refusal of so many to see what is staring them in the face, or at the organized hypocrisy of, for example, the E.U. or the U.N. or the Arab League, posters give vent to a fury that sometimes is American in its hyperbole rather than English in its litotes. We all have our favorite figures of speech. Mine are paronomasia and hypallage. What are yours?

In any case, this is a come-one, come-all forum, largely unmonitored. Readers can winnow the wheat from the chaff themselves.

Denis MacEoin knows that the academic study of Islam is a school for scandal. The Saudis and other rich Arabs have in essence bought up the "Islamic studies" field, sometimes by setting up "centers" in Bradford, or Durham, or Exeter, or Georgetown, and if not the Saudis, then Kuwaitis or representatives of assorted emirates and sheikdoms (better watch this, because The Ruler of Bahrain elevated himself to the “Prince” and now he has given himself a promotion to “King of Bahrain,” much to the amusement of J. B. Kelly and others with experience in the Gulf). St. Antony’s rests on the money left by Anton Besse, an Adeni Jewish trader who would not be pleased by the use to which his legacy has been put, at least in the Middle Eastern section of that St. Antony’s gallimaufry.

MacEoin wrote "New Jerusalems" a dozen years ago. It was a good book about Islam and Rushdie, and is listed in the bibliography to Ibn Warraq’s “Why I Am Not a Muslim.” He had to leave Durham, so the story goes (he can certainly set us all straight) because he was teaching about Islam in a way that did not satisfy the Saudis, and the Saudi paymasters ran everything, as they do in so many places, and not merely in academic life.

Now that MacEoin makes his living as a writer – of thrillers under the name “Daniel Easterman” and also “Jonathan Aycliffe,” – he surely pays attention to words. Why would he regard as “racist” attacks on an ideology, a belief-system? What does that have to do with “racism”?

Mr. MacEoin/Easterman/Aycliffe may retain some residual defensiveness about Islam, in the matter of those "esthetic" apologists for Islam, who are willing to go far in deploring, especially in private, much about Islam and Muslims, but for some reason continue to act as Defenders of the Faith to one degree or another. Eric Ormsby of Montreal, and Robert Irwin of the TLS both come to mind. One finds Al-Ghazali fascinating, and yet judging by his essays in The New Criterion, has realized that Western cultural riches far outstrip whatever once entranced him about the study of Islam. Irwin’s translations of classical Arabic poetry keep him somehow tethered to the reservation – though his leash is long enough for him to have gone and taken a huge bite out of Edward Said, and one hopes he will complete a study of that dangerous and silly man. Both know more about Islam than they allow themselves to recognize – Irwin keeps assigning books on Mughal India, to Francis Robinson or William Dalrymple, which virtually insures not only apologetics, but apologetics of a Barbara-Cartlandish swoon-over-Mughal-court-intrigue-and-lovers-and-luxury sort. Maddening.

No one likes to have given a decade or three of his life to studying something that required mastery of a difficult tongue, and that in the end proves to be far less interesting than one’s native language or culture. Most of the sincere students of Islam find that there is not much there there, so they try to make it interesting for themselves, and part of making that thing interesting is to deny the essentially primitive and aggressive and mind-stunting nature of the belief-system of Islam. Almost everything of interest that has come out of high Islamic civilization was created despite, not because of, the strictures of Islam. Mughal miniatures, the science of Al-Rhazi, the ratiocination of Averroes or Al-Farabi and others who were hardly orthodox in much of their thought. That is worth remembering.

One hopes that the man who wrote "New Jerusalems,” even if he noisily unsubscribes, will occasionally peek in now and again. After all, it is not Jihadwatch that caused him to lose his academic post. It is not those at Jihadwatch who are helping to deliver England and the rest of European civilization into the plausible hands of Tariq Ramadan and others of that ilk.

One suspects that Mr. MacEoin/Easterman has a touch of the anti-American bug, and finds fault because this site is largely run by and from America. He might be surprised at at how many Europeans read this site, take comfort in it, and derive both profit and pleasure in what it offers -- as the ample evidence of emails suggests.

And it is mainly in Europe that one now senses most keenly the slipping-away of European civilization, not because of the innate and self-evident wonderfulness of the belief-system of Islam, but simply because the Muslim immigrants, with their large families, are outbreeding the locals, and when one adds the constant attempts at Da’wa, that appeal to the economically and psychically marginal, one realizes that even a belief-system as crude and primitive as this, with Manichaean division of the world between Believer and Infidel, dar al-Islam and dar al-Harb, may well destroy a far more worthy civilization. It has happened before in history.

Would Mr. MacEoin/Easterman/Aycliffe agree that almost every Englishman, Frenchman, Dutchman, Italian, German, Spaniard would agree, if asked, that he would gladly undo the Muslim migration into Europe over the past few decades? For the result is clear to all. The presence of Muslims beyond a handful (i.e., more than 1% of the population), has caused indigenous Infidels to lead lives that are far more constrained, unpleasant, expensive, and physically dangerous than they would be, had the unchecked Muslim migration into Europe been, in a timely way, stopped or never allowed to start in the first place.

Before permitting such Muslim migrants in, European rulers engaged in no serious study of Islam, no reading of its canonical texts (Qur’an, hadith, sira). A generation of real scholars of Islam had died out, and they were hardly replaced by those whose agendas consisted of promotion of the Arab side of the Arab-Israeli dispute, and successful attempts at suppressing any real understanding or study of Islam.

Now, at this and other websites, one is being asked to take seriously what those texts are all about, and to understand that Muslims take them seriously, and it is those texts – not “poverty,” not resentment over “colonialism,” not a thousand other absurd excuses – that explain Beslan, and killings in Amsterdam, and explosions in Bali, or Jerusalem, or Baghdad, or Madrid, or Washington, or New York – it is Islam itself. The texts which people memorize from an early age, and hear recited everywhere, including in the khutbas at Friday Prayer, and along the street, and in daily conversation --- in short, in everything they read or hear or see, there is Qur'an, and hadith, and sira. A fantastic hold over the minds of men -- as if every bit of the advertising Western man is subject to was all devoted to Islam, to Muhammad and to his Companions. And this strange, fascistic, Total Explanation of the Universe, with its accompanying Scapegoat for Everything (the Infidel), has a strange appeal for the psychically and economically marginal, for Islam is now the vehicle to express alienation, hatred of The System, Capitalism, The Man, Amerika with a "k," and so on.

And Da'wa is supplemented through the weapon of childbirth -- demography as destiny. While the Infidel population increases at the rate of 1 1/2% in Europe, the Muslim population increases at the rate of 7 1/2% -- or five times the Infidel rate. Figure out how long it will be before first France, then Holland, then England and Germany, will have 30% or 40% or 50% Muslims -- and what will that mean? Little wonder that so many Europeans come to this website, and have taken to reprinting both articles and postings from it, on websites in French, or Dutch, or Swedish.

What is one to make of such phrases as Mr. MacEoin has allowed himself – a “cesspit of racism” etc. Charitably, one could assume he is attempting to mimic what he takes to be, wrongly, the House Style. There is no House Style. But at least everyone who comes here long ago learned to see through the Muslim misuse of that all-purpose curse, “racism.”

Mr. MacEoin writes that "you need people like me to contribute to your discussions." Just who are "people like me"? And why, exactly, does Jihadwath need them? What is it Mr. MacEoin could so easily contribute, if only he felt like it, but now he doesn’t, because this website is full of such crass and crude remarks, that it would simply be infra dig for the writer of the kind of books he now writes (for a list of those thrillers, google “Daniel Easterman”) to stoop to such pandering to popular and vulgar prejudice. Thank God someone is not letting the side down.

December 9, 2004 05:59 AM

This response was harsher than it should have been, and agenbite of inwit about the orignal comment has appeared, from time to time, under the visiting moon. But the answer to the original, now repeated complaint, still stands. Once the free-for-all of comments is permitted, one finds that comments vary. Some are full of information, some offer personal testimony about experiences with Muslims that help to clarify, some are scary, some touching, some funny, some infuriating, some silly, some obstinately wrong-headed (some simply unprintable and, therefore, when found, promptly un-printed. Denis MacEoain describes some as "racist and bigoted." As to the first, any denunciations of Islam may be intelligent or stupid, well-founded or baseless, but they cannot be "racist." And that word should simply no longer ever be brought into a discussion of Islam. Period. As to "bigoted" -- that implies a dislike or even hatred for Islam based not on any evidence, any reason for hating either Islam or those who deeply believe in it and there fore might reasonably be regarded as a potential threat to the laws and customs of all Infidels, and to their lives as well.

The original article also discussed those who, having spent years studying Islam, sinking into its quicksand but still holding on, as aesthetes with a willow in each hand, to quote Dr. MacEaoin above, by "still try[ing] to appreciate those elements that elevate it (such as the finer forms of Sufism, the poetry, the architecture, and the belief in material simplicity over greed)." The "finer forms of Sufism" is a phrase that worries because one already knows how misinformed Infidels are about Islam, and how easy it is for those promoting Jihad to hide behind a volume of the poetry of Rumi. We have, after all, more than one example of those on a Spiritual Search who end up with Islam, and with "Sufism" which in the jumble-sale of their minds gets confused with "The Bead Game" and "Siddhartha" and the Summer of Love in Haight-Ashbury, and the Beatles in their ashram (or was it Marianne Faithfull with Allen Ginsberg -- so hard to keep things straight).

Then there is "the poetry" which puts us in mind of the pre-Islamic poets in Arabic, of the "singing crows" in Arabic, of Mutanabbi's panegyrics and then, when disappointed after seeking favor, his invectives addressed to the same would-be patron, and of course the night and the desert so ably recycled as a title by Robert Irwin in his collection of translated poetry in Arabic), and also all those Persian poets -- Hafiz, Sa'adi, Firdowsi, Omar Khayyam.

Well, what makes those pre-Islamic poets, those singing crows, that favor-seeking Mutanabbi, that Hafiz, Sa'adi, Firdowsi, Omar Khayyam, specifically Muslim, when there is reason to believe that what distinguishes almost all of them (we'll put Mutanabbi to one side) are sentiments that have nothing to do with Islam at all, and that are often downright un-Islamic.

Third in the list is "the architecture." What mosques, from what period, can stand up to anything produced in the Western world, or the Eastern one? What is it that Bannister Fletcher tells us are the great contributions of Muslim builders -- how many of the architects, and the builders. were Muslim, either in early Islam, or in the Ottoman or the Mughal Empire? Was the squinch an Islamic discovery, or from Byzantium? Is the Omayyad Mosque the product of Muslims, or was it built upon a Christian site, added to a Christian building, by Byzantine craftsmen?

And what about the Dome of the Rock? Does its structure remind you of any other structure in Jerusalem? Why is that an Islamic structure? Isn't it really a Byzantine martyrium, with some Arab writing that some have jumped to the conclusion that it must be Islamic but in fact has nothing to do with Islam, is not a Qur'anic quotation at all? (For more on this, wait a month, for something most relevant on the matter will be coming out). The mosques in Istanbul -- some of them fine, but how fine? Wouldn't you trade all of them for just the Kariya Djami and its paintings?

"The architecture"? There is more of architectural interest in a single Umbrian hill town, or just around a single Roman piazza -- Piazza Navona, Piazza Minerva, Piazza Farnese -- than in the entire Islamic world.

And in any case, so what? What if some mosques are, in the opinion of some, things of beauty. What does this have to do with Islam as a belief-system and as a present and future threat, to most other kinds of art, the kind that unlike those mosques are the product of individuals, and thus the most interesting kind -- sculpture, most Western paintings, and music, and literature that is not inhibied by, and subservient to, Islam, Islam, Islam.

"The belief in material simplicity over greed"? Are you kidding? This theme, that somehow Islam has handled the old radix malorum problem, has tamed it, is nonesense. There may be Muslim solidarity against the Infidel, but that does not translate into what some call social justice among Muslims. The Grand Theft of the riches of Arabia (now "Saudi" Arabia) by the Al-Saud princes and princelings has been emulated not only by the various ruling families in Kuwait, Abu Dhabi, and elsewhere up and down the Persian (not the "Arabian") Gulf, and also by those who seized power long ago or inherited it -- including Mubarak, the plausible Hashemites of Jordan, the Algerian generals, the Assad dynasty, and so on. The only way to get rich in those countries is either to seize power, or to be friends with someone who is a member of the ruling class or family. Then, as a favored or sponsored contractor or middleman, the Kashoggi or the Hariri or the Bin Laden or the other families can strike it rich, and do. What lack of materialism are you talking about? The Gold Markets up and down the Gulf, the entire areas that are nothing but luxury shopping malls beyond the wildest dreams of Rodeo Drive or the Via Condotti or rue du Faubourg St-Honore?

And have rich Muslims shown much solicitiousness for poor, or poorer Muslims? Who gives aid to Egypt, to Jordan, to the "Palestians" -- is it the rich Arabs, or is it, rather, the Americans and Europeans? And what did Iraqis do first when the Americans came, bearing riches? Did they plow all their money into non-materialist endeevors, or did some of them make off with $1 billion, right out of Iraq, never to be seen again? And those hundreds of thousands of new cars now on the streets in Iraq, those BMWs and Mercedes -- one more sign of the ability of Muslims to get beyond the merely material, unlike those bad old Infidels? And what about Yassir Arafat, with that missing $5-6 billion, or all those "Palestinian" leaders who bought apartments in the south of France (why, one of them met an untimely end at his modest rm.w/vue), in imitation of the Saudis with their yachtsin Marbella.

Those non-materialists on Avenue Foch and Mayfair, and in the countryside, those chateaux, those seaside villas, those apartments in the Trump Tower, those.... well, you know as well as I that the greatest orgy of spending in human history has been that of the Muslim Arabs who have been recipients of unearned oil wealth. They haven't shared that wealth beyond the minimum, with their poorer fellow Muslims at home, or abroad -- except to pay for mosques, madrasas, and of course reward money to the families of suicide bombers in Israel. That's about it.

That earlier attack of agenbite of inwit is definitely beginning to wear off.

Posted by: Hugh at September 27, 2005 1:59 PM

Oh well, so much for an official, bonafide university education, graduate studies, and useless degrees. I didn't learn Arabic so I'm not qualified to expound on the horrors of Islam.

I've never heard of the eminent Denis MacEoin but he reminds me quite a bit of Omid what'shisname. Regardless of how much one might know about Islam, unless one is muslim, speaks Arabic, and has earned a doctorate in Islamic Studies, one is not qualified to critique Islam---- except people like Mr. MacEoin, who is exempt from the rules that apply to the rest of us.

To suggest that the credibility of this site is diminshed by our comments is just one more attempt to silence Islam's detractors. How could we possibly say anything that would further discredit or vilify a profoundly, manifestly evil ideology? A belief system that demonstrates its barbarity, cruelty, inflexibility, and mortal danger to humanity every day of the year!

There is nothing about Islam that I find worthy of respect, absolutely nothing! Not Sufi poetry, architecture, or a Spartan, austere lifestyle. I am not a bigot. Would I be a bigot for hating fascism? Racism, that hackneyed word used to silence and intimidate, does not apply to a religion practiced by brainwashed zombies of every race.

Posted by: Susanp at September 27, 2005 2:04 PM

I'm here because this site is an oasis of sanity in a desert of insanity. Seems there are some people a whole lot smarter than MacEoin to listen to and learn from here, for which I am grateful. Thanks, Robert.

Posted by: Infidel33 at September 27, 2005 4:06 PM

"Given that these folks [Muslims] would happily do the same [mass-murder] to myself and my family, I also damn well plan on having an opinion about it."

That sums it up.

No need for long-winded rebuttals against a doctor whose sip of the PC Leftist kool-aid has likely left him incapable of appreciating them.

Posted by: Dr. Pepper at September 27, 2005 4:41 PM

Regardless of how much one might know about Islam, unless one is muslim, speaks Arabic, and has earned a doctorate in Islamic Studies, one is not qualified to critique Islam----

This is an obscurest tactic employed by authoritarians throughout the ages. You have to believe that “You can’t understand it, let me tell you what it says?” comes along with a couple of winks and nudge as well. Whether it is priests spouting Latin, prophets peering through magic glasses (or was it a rock in a hat?) to decipher angelic metal plates, interpretations of unknown tongues, or hastely written bills and "acts", hucksters depend on the ignorance and gullibility of their victims to win them power.

It appears to me that the Islamic religion is constructed in such a manner as to make a definitive answer on any subject impossible to obtain with any certainty due to the lack of a central Islamic authority or body. If Islam is so intertwined with Arabic culture that it requires an Arab speaking, Arab reading Arab living in a Islamic culture to understand it, then they just need to keep it to themselves and leave the rest of the world be.

Is that the plan though? No, god’s "chosen people" the Muslims know what’s best and we should do as they say. They know best of course because they are plugged into god in a way none of us (infidels) could possibly understand with our underdeveloped minds and spiritual natures.

Ohhhhh brother.

Posted by: f.g. at September 27, 2005 4:46 PM

RE: I am not left-wing, but consider myself politically liberal, which means I support things like democracy, human rights, freedom of speech and so on.

Newsflash Mr. MacEoin, these are not "liberal"
values as they are the foundation of our Country.

And you are a "learned scholar"......?

Posted by: learjet0450 at September 27, 2005 5:54 PM

RE: I am not left-wing, but consider myself politically liberal, which means I support things like democracy, human rights, freedom of speech and so on.

Newsflash Mr. MacEoin, these are not "liberal"
values as they are the foundation of our Country.

And you are a "learned scholar"......?

Posted by: learjet0450 at September 27, 2005 5:54 PM

"Much of the well-known mystical symbolism of Sufism, often best known through the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam, was taken over by the Isma'ilis. They joined Sufism and Shiism in a peculiar and unique blend, often appearing as a particular group of Sufis with their own Shaykh....It would not..be surprising if the use of hashish and other drugs for achieving mystical ecstasy was also carried over from the Sufis."
- Edward Burman

but still try to appreciate those elements that elevate it--Denis MacScholar

Den, elevate may be a bad choice of words here.

Posted by: Whistling Dixie at September 27, 2005 6:02 PM

I recently came across this on the Web. It is particularly interesting because it shows what Islam really is: Muhammadanism! Funnily enough, this is what it always used to be called; but then we decided to legitimize this 'faith' by pleasing them and calling it Islam.

After you read the following, you will ask yourself what is the better, more accurate, name for this so-called 'religion'. Here it is:

The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace)

The Invocation of Blessings and Peace upon the Prophet of Allah (may Allah bless him and give him peace.)

Translated by Khalid Williams from ‘Abwab al-Faraj’ by the esteemed Sheikh Muhammad bin Alawi al-Maliki al-Hassani, may Allah forgive and be pleased with him, who died in Makkah in Ramadan, 2004

In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.

Among the greatest means of obtaining ease in times of hardship is invocating blessings and peace upon the Prophet of Allah (may Allah bless him and give him peace), which the Prophet (may Allah bless him and give him peace) himself clarified for us how in a tradition narrated by Ubai bin Ka’ab (may Allah be pleased with him), who said; ‘I said, ‘O Messenger of Allah, I supplicate often, so how much of my supplication should I devote to you?’ He replied, ‘as you desire’. I said, ‘a quarter of it?’ He said ‘as you desire, but if you were to increase upon this, it would be better for you.’ I said, ‘half of it?’ He said, ‘as you desire, but if you were to increase upon this, it would be better for you.’ I said, ‘two-thirds of it?’ He said again, ‘as you desire, but if you were to increase upon this, it would be better for you.’ Finally I said, ‘and if I dedicate my supplication in its entirety to you?’ He said, ‘then your needs will be satisfied, and your sins forgiven.’

Source: http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/salawat.htm

If this 'religion' shouldn't be called Muhammadanism, what should?

Now, Dr. Denis MacEoin, did you realise that Muslims are supposed to pray to Muhammad 100% of the time? That makes Muhammad the real god in Islam, not Allah.

Just something for you to think about, Denis MacEoin.

By the way, I had never heard of you before tonight. Does that make me less than a worthy commentator on Islam, too? I have read none of your books, neither your thrillers nor any thrillers you have written. But then I doubt that you have read my book/writings either. But that hardly disqualifies you from writing about the subject, so don't worry.

For your information, I find that most of the comments on this website show that jihadwatchers are well-informed and rather erudite. They are hardly comments made by people who are in the dark about this ever growing cult.

In fact, when it comes to Islam and what's happening in the world in relation to Islam, the website is hard to beat.

Not everyone here has studied Islam in Arabic, but then they hardly need to have done so. There is little written in this life that cannot be translated. That's what translators are for. That's what they do. That's how they make their bread.

So don't try and say that one cannot really comment on Islam unless one has read the Koran in Arabic, or some such bilge as that. People could understand what was happening in Nazi Germany without knowing a word of German, you know!

But for your information, I have studied quite a lot of Arabic, and I master the script.

Posted by: Mark at September 27, 2005 6:02 PM

BTW,
Ibn Warraq takes on the subject of Arabic translations in his book, What the Koran Really Says.

Posted by: Carolyn2 at September 27, 2005 6:12 PM

"someone who has studied Islam at an advanced level in the original languages using Islamic texts may be better placed than most laypeople to evaluate Islamic matters..."
-- from Dr. MacEoin's posting above

"May be" indeed. But which Islamic "experts" do we consult? The Columbia University MEALAC faculty? The enthusiast for Muhammad Montgomery Watt, who prefered religion to what he saw as the danger of irreligion? Most of the current membership of MESA Nostra (google "MESA Nostra Contest" for a representative example of the kind of govno they churn out, carefully using the word "post-coloniialism" because it has no scadenza or sell-by date? John Esposito, the lean mean jogger who tells us there is nothing to worry about when it comes to poor, misunderstood Islam, and churns out meaningless coffee-table books (for the New and Very Much Unimproved Oxford University Press) and similar stuff that those in Lebanon and elsewhere who set him up in his little "Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding" must be quite happy with)? Who, exactly?

Islam is understood by a billion people. What's a few more, who happen not to be Believers but Infidels, but who can read the same passages in the Qur'an that Muslims read, read the same stories in the Hadith of al-Bukhari and Muslim that Muslims repair to, can learn all about isnad-chains, and naskh, and a few other things that do not present the need for specialized knowledge that, say, elementary particle physics or De Sitter Space, or the study of the ostrich-egg in a painting by Piero della Francesca, might demand.

We are not required to become Alfred-Louis De Premare, or Christoph Luxenberg or Ibn Warraq, before coming to certain conclusions about Islam, are we? We need not distinguish this or that sect or what happened to this Rightly or Not-so-rightly Guided Caliph, in order to take the measure of what the islamization of Western Europe almost certainly means for the survival of art, music, science, and a few other things like that, are we?

And the disgraceful racket of Islamic studies, not only full of apologists both Muslim and non-Muslim, some of them out of venality, others out of stupidity, others out of a desire not to offend, means that most "scholars" of Islam are now guilty until proven innocnet. Just look, for example, at how the TLS has treated Ibn Warraq (not to mention the unmentionable Bat Ye'or, not one of whose four most important books -- "The Dhimmi," "Islam and Dhimmitude," "The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam," and "Eurabia," has received mention there under Robert Irwin or under his similarly-inclined predecessor). One good review, of only one of his books -- and that only because Patricia Crone made sure that someone decent (Chase Robinson) would get to review it in her stead, and she was too important to be trifled with.

Or look at the antics of Prof. John Donner, of the history department at the University of Chicago, who makes sure to put in a bad word about Ibn Warraq wherever he can -- even at the reviews posted by Amazon. Infra dig, perhaps? Just a bit?

Between those on the take, and those on the make, and those who discover things about Islam that they do not like so, rather than say anything bad about it, they leave the professional study of Islam altogether. Whatshisname -- Adrian Brock, Bock, I forget -- but you know whom I mean, is an example of the latter.

It takes no specialized knowledge to see that our leaders fail to instruct and protect us, and are inhibited from speaking forthrightly about Islam.

We, however, have no such inhibitions, and shouldn't acquire any.

Posted by: Hugh at September 27, 2005 6:31 PM

I am sorry that Islam is unable or incapable to stand up to even the most basic of scrutiny.

As a regular (unwashed) american voter who doesnt have any of the degrees that you or the other elitests have i am not allowed any discourse on the subject that is indeed affecting
My country
My Family
My life..

Excuse me Butt brains but who in the hell gave you ANY rights to decide what i think??

I will NOT submitt to either
The islamic supporters.
The elitists who feel sorry for the islamic terrorists
The islamic terrorists themselves

We FIGHT!!!

Put that into your pipe and smoke it
Bone Head

Posted by: jingoist at September 27, 2005 7:15 PM

What hubris. D. MacEoin is a puffed up, sad, small minded man who thinks, in his arrogant ignorance, that he has the keys to the mohammedan kingdom. His absence from this website has not registered on my jihad/dhimmi watch meter.

Posted by: the poetess at September 27, 2005 9:26 PM

Denis MacEoin has a point -- that the more pointed and informed the postings at Jihadwatch, the more plausible, and convincing, the site may be for new visitors. But if he stuck around he might find that many of the postings have value, and that in any case one can easily glide or glaze over those that obviously are not.

One final query, addressed urbi et orbi. Am I, though all for Gaeltacht spelling, the only one who for some reason can't stop thinking of Etaoin Shrdlu, or are there others?

Posted by: Hugh at September 27, 2005 11:58 PM

Am I, though all for Gaeltacht spelling, the only one who for some reason can't stop thinking of Etaoin Shrdlu, or are there others?

Ask your Moriarty, Anonymous.

Posted by: Dr. Pepper at September 28, 2005 12:43 AM

Poor Mr. Denis admits to a scholarly life, that in actual fact is of little substance. He would be well put to debate Mr. Ali Sina who, on the same subject of Islamic art etc (which Mr. Denis has orgasms) says:

Mr. Ahmed said that the name Iram did not exist in any pre-Islamic books. I said what books? Muhammad and his marauding gangs burned all the pre-Islamic books. They dismissed them as false or redundant because as Muhammad said anything pre-Islamic was Jahili (ignorance) and there was no need for them. The history reports the burning of the libraries in virtually all the countries that Muslims invaded. The most famous one of then was the huge library of Alexandria.

From the time of the pre-Islam very little books are left. The Egyptian scholar Taha Hussain, in his book Fi al-Adab al-Jaheli contended that:

The vast quantity of what is called pre-Islamic poetry has nothing to do with the pre-Islamic literature, but it is fabricated after Islam. ... Thus our research will lead us to a very strange conclusion; that this poetry can not be used in interpreting the Qur'an. http://debate.domini.org/newton/inventions.html

Paul Newton the Christian scholar on Islam states:

"Need is the mother of invention" is a saying that is true in many areas but in particuler it is true to what is called the science of the Qur'an.

"When the Muslims found themselves in the need to protect what they believed to be the miraculous nature of the Qur'an they invented:

1. Pre-Islamic poetry.
And
2. They invented non-Hijazi and foreign words
3. They invented grammatical rules.
And it goes without saying that
4. They invented a huge amount of Hadith.
He proves each and every one of his claims in an article available here:
http://debate.domini.org/newton/inventions.html

According to Taha Hussain Muslims destroyed all pre Islamic books and then fabricated poetries and words to justify the errors of the grammar of the Quran. The proof is convincing. One evidence presented by Taha Hussain is that all those poetries are in Quraysh dialect when in reality the Arabs spoke many different dialects and it is highly unlikely that these Arabs who were so tribalists would compose poetries in the dialect of the Quraysh instead of their own. They went even as far as to compose poetries and attribute them to Adam.

http://www.examinethetruth.com/sina_responce2.htm

In the above Mr. Sina has not covered the fate of Nalanda University where millions of books burnt, and the rest taken and translated to provide Mr. Denis with the orgasms thousands of years later.

Posted by: leavingtheleft at September 28, 2005 12:50 AM

As for architectire, let`s take one of their `great` works- Taj Mahal.

Today`s tourists while oooing and aahinng fail to realise it was built by 30,000 hindu artisans, whose hands were then chopped off.
This is Mr. Denis` architecture which we are supposed to eulogize?

Posted by: leavingtheleft at September 28, 2005 12:57 AM

Also by Ali Sina:

Yes of course I am very much interested in my culture. I also love Persian language, Parsi, its architecture, its poetry and its art. I also love Persian calligraphy. Yes I think Arabic is also a beautiful language and I love the Middle Eastern art and cousin. However, these are not Islamic. Is there any instruction or even mention of architecture, calligraphy, music, poetry or any form of art that constitute the basis of any culture in the Quran? Calling our culture Islamic is misnomer. Our culture is ours. It existed before Islam. Take for example the palace of Kasra .

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Testimonials/ali1940.htm

Posted by: leavingtheleft at September 28, 2005 1:01 AM

In fact Muhammad berated poets and discouraged or banned art. Painting, sculpture, music and dancing are prohibited in Islam. The Quran does not teach mathematics, chemistry, medicine or any other science. Quran teaches war and incites its followers to hate.

Posted by: leavingtheleft at September 28, 2005 1:08 AM

To paraphrase Robert Fulghum, "I learned all I need to know about Muslims from the newspaper."

Or:
If God had wanted me to convert, He would not have permitted me to work in the Middle East.

Or:
To reparaphrase Robert Fulghum, "I learned all I need to know about Muslims by driving to and from work in Saudi Arabia."

jay

Posted by: jay at September 28, 2005 8:54 AM

"someone who has studied Islam at an advanced level in the original languages using Islamic texts may be better placed than most laypeople to evaluate Islamic matters..."
-- from Dr. MacEoin's posting above

To follow up on a few of Hugh's points: the analogy between medical expertise and scholarly expertise on Islam is, of course, one of those alluring, complicated, and horribly false analogies. The biological sciences are both utterly different in methodology and theory; indeed the very idea of what it means to 'know something' about biology and a subject like 'Islam' are different. Not to mention that goal of medical science, health, is well defined and coherent; and what is the goal of the 'study of Islam'?

And, of course, Hugh's account of the questionable, inconsistent, biased, standards of practice in the 'professional study of Islam' should seal the fate of this very, very false (if falsity comes in degrees) analogy.

Posted by: JTF at September 28, 2005 4:24 PM

"and what is the goal of the 'study of Islam'?"

For us, self-defense.

jay

Posted by: jay at September 29, 2005 1:36 AM