Six more months! An assasination or two in Saudi Arabia? An earthquake in Mecca? Another attempt by the Shiites to take Mecca?

Scenes we`d like to see.

Posted by: leavingtheleft at October 1, 2005 7:57 AM

they´re very dhirmis. Very sad. We want a church in US embassy in Ryad now.

Posted by: Franze at October 1, 2005 8:06 AM

The Administration continues to believe it needs Saudi good-will, and is afraid of offending it. This is wrong. This is getting it backwards. Saudi Arabia sells oil. All of its income comes from oil. Until recently it could play a bit with production and as the swing producer, would try to calculate a market price X at any time Y that would maximize the total value of its reserves in the ground. It might miscalculate, of course--sellers often do--putting the price too high (so that consumers would find other supplies of oil, develop other sources of energy, manage to conserve more, find the political will to support mass transit, tax gasoline, and so on) or too low (when it could put it higher without changing long-term demand). That's it. That has always been it. That is how Saudi Arabia sells its oil. Had we added a tax Z (rising in regular increments) on oil, on gasoline, then the Saudis whould have at any time Y had to charge a price that, if not exactly X-Z, would probably have been somewhere between X and X-Z. The consumers would thus have managed to grab some of that money that would otherwise have gone to the Saudis, and other sellers, for ourselves.

What about the stocks, bonds, money Saudi Arabia has in America? Couldn't it just pull it allout and harm us? Answer: No. For that money, from those investments, has to be parked somewhere. Suppose the Saudis were to take sell everything and put their money into a French or German or Ruritanian bank. Those French, those Germans, those Ruritanian bankers, would promptly buy up the artificially low-priced stocks and bonds, that the Saudis had sold (money flows hither and yon, wherever its directors list).

But Saudi Arabia is completely dependent on the West to supply doctors and other professional workers. Its rulers depend, in the end, on access outside their country for medical care. They need access to every kind of Western technology, medical equipment and supplies, electronic playthings, the people who can in a pinch put out oilfield fires or pump the last drops from declining fields. The Al-Saud also have a good many illiquid assets -- real estate -- all over the West, including those escape-houses that the rulers have bought in such places as New York City. If their children were unable to come to the West (the Saudis just arranged to have 10,000 Saudis study in America -- doesn't that sound like they want access to our educational system?), if they were unable to, if they had all sorts of limits on the movement of their money, and their own movements, they could be brought to heel. But no one in this Administration, which is indeed unable to conceive of Saudi Arabia as anything other than calling the shots -- it can call almost nothing, and is at our mercy, if we only realized the thousand ways we have to pressure them, and their rulers, it would be a good thing.

But what if there were some kind of revolution in Saudi Arabia, and the Al-Saud threatened with overthrow? It doesn't matter. For they behave as malevolently in th end as any group that were to follow, save Bin Laden himself. Indeed, if the loot taken by the Al-Saud were now spread around to everyone that would leave less discretionary income to pay for mosques, madrasas, and Jihad propaganda everywhere.

And what about the oilfields? Instead of being inhibited by Saudi Arabia, officials should simply treat it roughly, and when the Saudis claim that "we might lose control of the oil" say nothing, do nothing. Simply make plans to seize, in a case of necessity, the oilfields of Hasa, conveniently located right on the Gulf, for loading onto waiting ships. It may never come to that -- but the understanding that there is no need to worry about such a phony threat because, in the end, we would simply act on the basis of necessity, and could make such an act palatable by immediately announcing that the oil revenues would be kept in trust, and doled out to the poor in Saudi Arabia so that it would not be taken and used to fund "terrorism" (i.e. the Jihad) world-wide.

It would be easier to seize those fields, if necessary, than it has been for the past year and a half in creating that absurd Light Unto the Muslim Nations in Iraq, that will not, cannot work, and shows the obstinacy of people who once had an idea -- the more foolish and more obsequious and more timid in this administration -- and now the idea has them. And few seem willing to say, not from the Cindy -Sheehan idiotic point of view, but from the only view that makes sense (that it is a tremendous misallocation of men, money, materiel, and dampens army and civilian morale,and misinteprets the situation in Iraq and presupposes the existence of an "Iraqi" people that the entire history of modern Iraq belies).

One more example of the complete misunderstanding of Islam, and the larger problem. Bush turns out to be just as stupid as he can be. As stupid, and as obstinate. And all those who go silently along with him, because they are politicallly afraid not to "support the troops" and to analyze things, are little better. From Rice's self-assured demands on the Kurds and the Israelis, from someone who has never studied Islam but has been a dutiful parroter of party-lines on Soviet Communism, and who always aims to please her bosses, to Karen Hughes with her little mis-mission as a "we hear your pain about us" and are "just here to listen" sob and sorority sister, the whole thing, the tremendous waste, the waste of lives and of money, the time wasted, as demographic conquest, Da'wa, and every other instrument of Jihad proceeds, largely unchecked, and everyone runs about wondering what, what, what can they do -- it disgusts.

Posted by: Hugh at October 1, 2005 8:27 AM

Not just in Saudi Arabia:

http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/10/america-intervenes-to-warn-of.html

THE Bush Administration has intervened in the debate about Turkey’s entry into the EU, warning Brussels of disastrous consequences if Ankara’s membership bid is turned down. Eric Edelman, the Pentagon’s new number three and until recently the US Ambassador to Ankara, said that refusing Turkey’s entry would not just destabilise a strategic region on Europe’s border but also set back efforts to encourage democratic reform across the Muslim world. “In light of everything else that is going on in the wake of 9/11, in Afghanistan, in Iraq and following the bombings in Madrid and London, to say ‘no’ to a secular, democratic open society — what message does that give to all those other countries and societies to whom we have been giving the message that we want you to start down this road of accommodation and modernity, of separation of mosque and state?” Mr Edelman said. Although Washington is not directly involved in the negotiations, it does play an important role behind the scenes, trying to persuade its transatlantic allies in Europe to allow its strategic partner Turkey into the EU club.

Posted by: Fjordman at October 1, 2005 9:16 AM

As if six months are enough to undo 14 centuries of intolerence in KSA.

Posted by: Vikrant_Camberleykar at October 1, 2005 9:26 AM

Dear Santa, for Christmas this year, all I want is for the United States of America to have a government with balls.

Posted by: DCWatson at October 1, 2005 9:51 AM

Re seizure of the proceeds from persian oilfields

The money could be held in a kind of trust, and would be spread among not only poor arabs in the territory of the al-saud dictatorship, but poor arabs everywhere, replacing the current western jizya. Those who are trained in and devoted to nothing but the study of mohammuds war manual and have no other useful skills or ambitions, could still be fed and housed comfortably. Of course, it wouldn't be quite the same symbolically, but we could even have someone in an "Uncle Sam" costume deliver the trust payouts, so that the muslim masters could yank the beard and smite him on both sides of the face as he humbly hands over the loot.

Posted by: Infidel33 at October 1, 2005 9:53 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that Rice gets her input on Arabs and Islam from America's Arabist, and latest Ambassador to the court of Sharon, Mr. Jones.

Posted by: Cynic at October 1, 2005 9:53 AM

Well, at least Fox News is reporting this story as well. Looks like the influence of the Saudi Prince with a nervous tick tick tick hasn't kicked in yet.

From the column: Stopping in Saudi Arabia, Hughes praised leaders of the kingdom for their counterterrorism work.

Shouldn't this read: Stopping in Saudi Arabia, Hughes, under orders from George Bush, advised leaders of the kingdom that their assets would be frozen and their oil fields would be commandeered because of their blatant funding of worldwide terror?

Posted by: DCWatson at October 1, 2005 9:58 AM

We have to be honest with ourselves regarding the extent to which oil is THE strategic resource of the world economy. Our leaders, intelligent or stupid (and believe me we're in the stupid zone now) are afraid of another oil crisis. We are perilously close to one now, and we are kowtowing to the Saudis every whim. Truly we are the favorite slave.

Before any American leader confronts the Saudi tyrrany, we need a decade of Manhattan project level energy research, AND a crash conservation program. First, Americans have to be dissuaded that guzzling gas is a right. Can you imagine what a different situation we would be in if the automobile companies could be upbraided for manufacturing gaz guzzlers? If Hummers had graffiti put on them, something like "I pay for terorism". Until this sort of change comes over the American consciousness, we will ever be at he beck and call of the Saudis. Merely a hint of souring relations with them and the price of oil will spike. We will feel the pain. People will lose their jobs and means of supporting their families. All these stories of seizing the Saudi oil fields are fantasy. It is not going to happen.

The cultural change that has to come over our society to free us from imported oil is mind boggling. Only a crisis will get it started. It is sad that our president was hand delivered the perfect such crisis, and he chose to run back to his Saudi masters, panting like a dog.

Quijybo
-------
"I summon my blue-eyed slaves anytime it pleases me. I command the Americans to send me their bravest soldiers to die for me. Anytime I clap my hands a stupid genie called the American ambassador appears to do my bidding. When the Americans die in my service their bodies are frozen in metal boxes by the US Embassy and American airplanes carry them away, as if they never existed. Truly, America is my favorite slave."
King Fahd bin Abdul-Aziz, Jeddeh 1993

Posted by: Quijybo at October 1, 2005 10:58 AM

Religious freedom in Saudi Arabia? What a joke! Let there be no doubt, these barbarians are our number one enemy. No matter how kind their words are, these savages are never to be trusted.

I remember the infinite religious tolerance I received every time I entered Saudi Arabia. A Bedouin savage with a mutawah beard and joyless eyes would rifle through my belongings looking for contrabands like Bibles, crosses, pork or alcohol. I remember how on Christmas everyone reported to work and there was never any mention of Christmas. One Christmas as I walked down the street a Saudi male approached me and whispered, “Merry Christmas.” What a shock that was! I was expecting to be propositioned by yet another sexually deprived Saudi male.

Speaking of Saudi (and Arab) homosexuality, can anyone explain to me why Muslims hate homosexuals so much that they want to kill them? Yet, at the same time Muslim males are ALWAYS trying to hump other males. I can’t understand this! Is homosexuality prior to marriage the norm in Islamic cultures? I know that it is in Saudi Arabia.

To any Saudis reading this post: Every day more people are beginning to understand the role Saudi Arabia plays in spreading Islam/terrorism (the two are always linked). I go out of my way to explain to people why you are the enemy. Slowly, but surely, the will to do whatever it takes to destroy Saudi Arabia is building. If that means carpet bombing Riyadh, Jiddah, Khobar a la Dresden, too bad for you. The reality is this: many Americans view you will even more contempt and hatred than you view us—YOU ARE THE ENEMY. May you all achieve the martyrdom you hope for.

Hatred of Islam and distrust of Muslims is RATIONAL

Posted by: ThirdWorldHeaven at October 1, 2005 11:22 AM

"All these stories of seizing the Saudi oil fields are fantasy. It is not going to happen."

It should be seriously considered. They should either be seized or the infrastructure destroyed. The oil proceeds have been used to keep these filthy pigs in power, to purchase the services and influence of vile whores in Washington D.C., and to greatly expand the global jihad. To be honest, I'd even be happy to see al-queda or the iranians destroy the saudi oil infrastructure. The economic consequences can be dealt with.

Posted by: Infidel33 at October 1, 2005 12:07 PM

"Until this sort of change comes over the American consciousness, we will ever be at he beck and call of the Saudis. Merely a hint of souring relations with them and the price of oil will spike."
-- from a posting above

No. We are not now, and we never were, but failed to realize that we never were, at the "beck and call of the Saudis." They do not reward or punish with their production; they are perfectly rational in their pricing, and the most appeasement-minded European government will not obtain Saudi (or any other oil) for less than the most bloody-minded Infidel. It is only the repetition of such notions, never lifted up for close examination, that allows the Saudis to push us around.

Of course there is a small group of people, throughout the Western world, who have a stake in pushing this line. These are the individuals who are either paid directly by the Saudis, or who have the promise of business deals, contracts for this or that, which make them eager to do the Saudi bidding, and if that includes persuading the American government that the Saudis hold all the cards, and we must tread lightly, or even do them favors, or take them seriously (at this point I can hear J. B. Kelly's snort of indignation and fury at the Western rulers, from Blair to Bush, who haven't a clue about Saudi Arabia) at all. We don't. We just have to pay the market price. That's it.

If they could get a higher price, without endangering the long-term value of those reserves, they would -- in a Mecca-to-Jerusalem-and-back Miraj minute.

Posted by: Hugh at October 1, 2005 1:17 PM

Thirdworldheaven:

"...can anyone explain to me why Muslims hate homosexuals so much that they want to kill them? Yet, at the same time Muslim males are ALWAYS trying to hump other males. I can’t understand this! Is homosexuality prior to marriage the norm in Islamic cultures? I know that it is in Saudi Arabia..."

Homosexuality is rampant in Muslim countries.

North-Africa and the ME, perhaps less so in Indonesia, but India and Pakistan certainly have great numbers of male-humping males.
Extensive traveling in my early years have taken me to many Muslim countries and I can confirm that as a male I was often propositioned.

Why they want to kill Homosexuals if most of them engage in homosexual activity? Allah would know, I don't. Arab or Mohammedan males appear to be rather psychotic, generally...

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at October 1, 2005 1:58 PM

I doubt very much that he White House will ever have the courage under Bush's watch to do anything about the shoddy treatment of people of other faiths living and working in the Kingsom of Saudi Arabia. Bush himself is too far gone down the road of dhimmitude for that!

What needs to be done is show the Saudis who exactly IS boss. Who exactly NEEDS whom. Who is the one to DICTATE the terms.

This will not come from the Bush administration. They are too much into making money from the Saudis, and too much into sucking up to their Saudi masters.

What needs to be done is pull the plug on the Saudi rulers. They wouldn't stay in power for five minutes without the help of the West. Then we could stop playing silly games with these wily people. They are playing around with us as though we were marionettes.

Let the iron veil drop down between them and us. Freeze them out, and let them destroy themselves. That's the way to deal with these horsetraders!

Posted by: Mark at October 1, 2005 2:01 PM

Dc watson: "all i want for christmas is a government with balls"

scuse me, but viewed from this side of the atlantic you already have one (with great balls of fire one might say) - and a bloody great big fat brass neck

a government which has set itself up as the worlds policeman, with a significant military presence in every corner of the globe, and which has clearly set out its stall as to what it wants to achieve in the world - namely world domination on behalf of its paymasters, corporate america

no what you need, and what we need in the uk, is a government with brains (from what i can make out, in all too short supply in the george w bush dept.) - a good solid authoritarian left wing government which governs according to principle not money - that will send the saudi fat boys and the wimpoid pc george w bushes of this world running for cover

if you want the key to the above article - its easy - follow the money. bush is rolling in saudi money. they are paying him off big style - how low can a human being sink?

"all that foreign oil contollin american soil
lookaround, its bound to make you embarrassed
Sheiks walkin around like kings, wearin fancy jewels and nose rings
deciding americas future from amsterdam and paris
and theres a slow, slow train comin up around the bend

mans ego is inflated, his laws are outdated, they dont apply any more
you cant rely no more to be standin aroud waitin
in the home of the brave*, jefferson turnin over in his grave
fools glorifying themselves, trying to manipulate satan
and theres a slow, slow train comin up around the bend"

bob dylan, 1979

*home of the brave, perhaps, but no longer, it would seem, the home of the braves

btw was someone earlier demanding a church in the us embassy compound in ksa? wow what a concession that would be - sounds just like the kind of concession the dirty bastard would accept

Posted by: freddiefreeloader at October 1, 2005 2:36 PM

Sat oct 1
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20051001/wl_mideast_afp/irannuclearoil_051001192836

DUBAI (AFP) - Iran's president was quoted as saying Tehran could use oil as a weapon if the UN Security Council imposes sanctions over suspicions Tehran is seeking weapons of mass destruction, but the report was denied by his spokesman.

"If Iran's case is sent to the Security Council, we will respond in many ways, for example by holding back on oil sales or limiting inspections of our nuclear facilities," Ahmadinejad was quoted as saying by the English-language daily Khaleej Times.

Ahmadinejad was also quoted as saying Iran might deny access to international nuclear inspectors if the Security Council is pressured by Washington and its allies to apply sanctions.

Ahmadinejad reiterated Iran's position that Tehran has the right to pursue peaceful uses of nuclear energy but said there was no question of using that technology to make weapons, as Iran is governed by Islamic principles which prohibit production or use of nuclear weapons.

"Our religion prohibits us from having nuclear arms and our religious leader has prohibited it from the point of view of religious law," he said.

The newspaper said the Iranian president made his remarks in answer to a question on what his response would be if the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) turned Iran's case over to the Security Council, possibly leading to sanctions.

But his spokesman told AFP in Tehran that "President Ahmadinejad did not give an interview to the Emirati newspaper Khaleej Times, and there is no truth to the information published by this newspaper."

Khaleej Times editor Prem Chandran told AFP that the freelance journalist who wrote the article, Nihal Kamel, "expressed surprise at the denial."

She said "the confusion must have occurred because on several occasions she met/got in touch with him, (but) she presented herself as a reporter with an American-based publication, not as a Khaleej Times reporter, though she has given this report exclusively to Khaleej Times."

Asked about reported threats by some Iranian officials of triggering a rise in oil prices and pulling out of the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), Ahmadinejad said that "any smart human being should use every resource in order to achieve his independence," according to Khaleej Times.

"I doubt that the leaders of the US and Europe are that far removed from reality. They are smarter than denying us this legal right. It's natural they will use whatever they have, which is the UN Security Council, but our nation has the means to defend its rights," he said.

Iran insists its nuclear program is peaceful. But the United States and European Union want Iran to abandon all work related to uranium enrichment, arguing Iran cannot be trusted with such sensitive technology, but also offering incentives in return.

The IAEA last week adopted a resolution that finds Iran in "non-compliance" with nuclear proliferation safeguards -- an automatic trigger for taking the matter to the Security Council.

Iran has already threatened to respond to the resolution by ending compliance with the NPT's additional protocol -- which gives the IAEA more inspection powers -- and resuming enrichment.

Posted by: otterfisher at October 1, 2005 3:36 PM

Freddiefreeloader: An authoritarian leftwing government with brains? Sorry, we had that between 1917 and 1991 over the better part of Eurasia. Most public intellectuals in the Western world kissed the arses of Lenin and Stalin until those worthies obligingly farted right up their admirers' noses. We still have otherwise intelligent leftists kissing the ground on which Castro, and the current Viet dictators walk.

We still have intelligent leftist authoritarianism in China (those lovely people whose government gives you ten years for giving religious instruction to a minor and is buddy-buddy with Islamicist Sudan over oil exploration, even while sweating bullets over its own internal Islamic dissent--may there be much more of it). Further, our current intelligent Lefties in China also govern the one major industrial power where it is abnsolutely forbidden to organize an independent labor union.

Hmmm. Maybe you're on to something. It is indeed time we taught those proletarian bums a thing or two. Socialism forever! It's the only system that lets us sweat and exploit labor with a clear conscience!

Also, the "smart money" in America--the tenured lefties, editorial staffs of the NYSlimes and Washington Compost and their ilk who are now so sure Dubya Bush is a nincompoop--are the same ones who give us endless moral equivalence between Islamic and Christian "fundamentalisms"--and who, in the late 1970's and early 1980's, loudly announced to the whole world that America is the enemy of every intelligent practicing Muslim on the globe by declaring our enemy to be "fundamentalism" (after all, those nasty Evangelicals abandoned the party of their grandparents in Dhimmi Khadr's hour of need).

Indeed, the studied stupidity about ANYONE's traditional piety which marks the intelligent left in America and elsewhere is one reason why America is in deep kimchee with the Islamic world. After all, all of us studied at the feet of such people. How do I know? I've been around the groves of Academe in the USA, and spent six years in the belly of the beast aptly known as Foggy Bottom (contrary to Euroleftist platitudes, the default setting there is liberal internationalist rather than realist or American nationalist). And, for the record, as a former official of the US Department of State, I sincerely wish my compatriots at the CIA had one one hundred thousandth of the mysterious powers Euroleftism ascribe to them.

Also, if the Bush administration really put oil above principle, it would've taken a leaf from Jecques Chirac's book and raced to lift sanctions on Sodom Insane's Iraq rather than invade it.

But, if you Brits are willing to help us occupy the Arabian oil fields, I'm with you.

Kepha, the Sinophone Yank

Posted by: Kepha at October 1, 2005 10:45 PM

Kepha, you are making me into a manic depressive!

Cant you write something to cracxk me up?

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at October 2, 2005 5:52 AM

sheilk yer'mamai:

I saw your post on another thread about Terminator being banned. Was he banned for posting links to the songs or for contents of his posts? Either way, offenders can usually make up with Spencer by apologizing for the offending behavior and promising not to repeat it. Spencer is merciful and oft-forgiving : - ).

Would you have Terminator contact susan_b356@yahoo.com with his email address and screenname with instructions to forward it to me? This is our underground, members-only list, addresses only given out on a one-time basis with permission. I lost the links to the songs.

Thanks.

CGW

Posted by: CGW at October 2, 2005 7:21 AM

sheik yer'mami:

I saw your post on another thread about Terminator being banned. Was he banned for posting links to the songs or for contents of his posts? Either way, offenders can usually make up with Spencer by apologizing for the offending behavior and promising not to repeat it. Spencer is merciful and oft-forgiving : - ).

Would you have Terminator contact susan_b356@yahoo.com with his email address and screenname with instructions to forward it to me? This is our underground, members-only list, addresses only given out on a one-time basis with permission. I lost the links to the songs.

Thanks.

CGW

Posted by: CGW at October 2, 2005 7:21 AM

Sorry about the double post - I corrected the screenname in the second, hoping I had stopped the first one in time.

Posted by: CGW at October 2, 2005 7:22 AM

CGW or Sheik,

I noticed the absence of postings from Terminator, but didn’t know it is because he was banned! What a pity. He is a good and intelligent man – if, sometimes, not too courteous when addressing idiots and phonies. I know I am not the only one who will miss him.

What exactly was the offence that caused Mr. Spencer resorting to such a radical step?
Could you please refer me to the thread where his banning is mentioned?

Thank you,

thomas h.

Posted by: thomas. h at October 2, 2005 12:59 PM

OK, Yer'mami: You've probably heard the one about the 72 Virginians. Does that crack you up?

Posted by: Kepha at October 2, 2005 7:31 PM

CGW, Kepha, Thomas:

Thanks for your concern, but I can assure you he is alive and well!

He was banned for offering a certain type of plug to KT in order to stop him from defecating on the victims of terror.

Here are the links to the songs:

http://islamcomicbook.com/lyrics.htm

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at October 2, 2005 11:06 PM

Sheik,

Thank you for assuaging my concern.

You assurance is very convincing - I don’t think Terminator himself could have expressed it better.... My best wishes to both of you.

KT is one giant walking-talking anus - he lives for defecation. He would cease to exist if deprived of his raison d’etre. I wonder if Terminator had in mind the same type of plug I would like to apply to that abomination. Unfortunately I won’t offer details for fear of being banned here. Perhaps one day.

Ah, and thanks for the islamcomicbook link. Very educational. I’ve forwarded it to all my contacts.

Cheers,

Thomas H.

Posted by: thomas. h at October 3, 2005 3:20 PM

freddie:

If you happen back on this thread, as a former long-time member of Canada's left-wing party, the NDP, I don't think there's a snowball's chance in he!! of finding a left-wing government that will be principled in its dealings with Arabs unless TC Douglas rises from his grave and somehow manages to go beyond being a provincial power.

If you can think of any country with an electable left-wing party that isn't inclined to kiss up to the Arabs, I'd like to know about it. I thought that all died back in the 1970s when OPEC started flexing its muscle.

Posted by: waterdragon52 at October 3, 2005 4:19 PM